Making Television Dance (Twyla Tharp) [1978]

Transcript (Download)

I think you better get her here.

After he's put her down, then you can get this leg thing happening here, which is nice.

Because what happens is he steps over, after he puts her down, he steps over and then she'll like push through.

And then he has her back here, then you see her down here.

Then you watch here, because what you want to see right here is you want to see this hand on her shoulder.

And then you want to see her transfer off to get her down there.

I understand a thing you said, but what's wrong? Television is about two things, the rectangle and the dollar.

Okay.

Would you do one more, just that last one, one more time? Do you like that one? It's alright.

It's alright, I'm going to stop and look at these.

Okay, how you feel? Five, four, three, two, one.

One, two, three, two, two, three, three, two, three, two, three, five, three, six, two, one.

Late in 68, I got my first half inch video system.

I was completely romantic and sentimental about television.

I think this is probably true of a whole generation of people whose fathers brought home TV sets when they were nine or ten.

Six, two, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, one, two, three, two.

While television no longer holds such mystery for me, I still have great respect for it.

And I wanted to make something that would be at least as much television as it was dance.

Two, one, two, three, four, one, two, three, two, three, one, and one, and one, one, one, one, one, up.

Early in 1976, Channel 13 offered me the opportunity to create dance that would work as television.

A commission to investigate the relationship between various television technologies and dance.

Being completely naive, I wanted to start off with everything.

And the electronic wizardries of television made much too much seem possible.

With director Don Misher, I set out to define boundaries and arrive at a beginning.

Do you want to see some of the things? No, wait, I have to remember what all we've done here.

He can do 180 degrees, he can do 360 degrees, he can do a single flat plane.

The machine's mysteries started to wear off.

The synthesizers and generators lost their glamour.

And bit by bit, my childhood primitive feeling that somewhere within its little wires, television had a life all its own disappeared.

This is making me sick.

Suddenly television was only an empty rectangle, not quite square, but close enough to suggest that the traditional American square dance be abstracted into an electronic exercise, paired down for only one flat figure dancing all eight parts in the barest possible television space.

So the first, we'll just take it step by step, the first thing, getting the eight voices with the locked down camera on these marks recorded.

One, two, three.

There was the downstage to camera vertical right voice, the downstage to camera vertical left.

They were joined by the upstage to camera horizontal right voice, then the downstage to camera horizontal left came on, and more and more and more.

Editing possibilities made hay with the classic Baroque concept of canon.

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.

And that was our simple beginning, a single phrase recorded and overdubbed eight times in TV no space.

I decided to mix in a little more information, and so we added place.

I wanted to use rehearsal studios as settings.

More than place, rehearsal studios represent time to me, periods in my life.

This studio on Great Jones Street was one of my first and is located just off the Bowery in an alienated area.

The people who live here are mostly outcasts, poor people who can afford little else who have few choices.

That's how I felt when I worked here.

That was a time in my life when this was my attitude towards the work I did.

Can't believe how tiny it is.

I've been here so long I couldn't find it.

It's a year wide.

I think it's nice.

The only thing is it really cuts her in half.

Let's make sure that Don's done.

I shouldn't participate as much as I should.

No, I know why.

The costumes look too formal.

I had in mind the kind of rehearsal clothes that you rehearsed in, but more color coordinated.

Not that, but more of a lighter color.

She looks terrific in this.

It's going to look good against this background if we use it.

Tyler says elegant, he says more casual.

I didn't know this was very charismatic, but I wouldn't have gotten involved.

You know what I mean? There you go.

Shelly loves to show off.

She's a flirtatious performer, warm and outgoing.

Her physicality sometimes asserts itself and her body seems to take off of its own accord.

This is a physical courage shared by all big jumpers.

She's out.

You're out, Shelly.

Next time you try it, why don't you come over here and why don't you be...

Do you have a pair of keys? You like to show off, you like to walk, you like to do your own thing.

When you see them, you start getting something in there and then you start out.

Now get up and move to the right and pan with her, Walter.

Move her a little bit.

Starting even further over left, what's that look like? Yeah, pan over to the left.

This red cross box I remember from the old days.

Studios are sacred ground, kept hidden from the uninitiated.

They are for the ritual of passage a student makes in becoming a performer.

As a token of this feeling, I designed four etudes for four of my dancers, celebrating several aspects of work.

Video technology was called upon to expand the problem of each etude.

Shelly's is speed.

Shelly.

Did you hear the siren and all that coming through? It's incredible how it kind of worked with what was happening up here.

Okay.

Yes.

Let's take a look at that, we'll play it back.

If that's good, I don't see any reason for doing it again.

Okay.

This is Franklin Street.

There are 79 steps, including landings, from the ground floor to the fourth floor where I have had a studio for the last 14 years.

Every day as I come here to work, I count the steps, and along the way know a little more as to how I will fare that day.

I like Franklin Street because it's in an industrial neighborhood.

It looks poor, but unlike the Bowery, it's a place where people work.

They're unloading cloth, selling things wholesale.

It's a part of society, and there's always activity.

Repetition is the first principle of rehearsal.

Traditionally, an atude commemorating endurance should be assigned to a man.

Tom Raw understands work.

You will repeat something over and over, analyzing, picking and pulling it all apart, and then reassemble to pieces, now having it mastered to the point, should he wish, of exact duplication.

When one tries to develop oneself as a performer or as an artist of any kind, you are in a competition.

You are in a competition with the best you know that has proceeded, and if you are serious, you want to do a little better.

It is an experiment.

Sometimes I want to find physical boundaries exactly the way an athlete or scientist wants to explore what is physically possible.

How high can somebody jump? How long can they go? How fast is humanly possible? The last two studios are in the big time, uptown.

While you're warming up, I'm going to stand in for you.

So you do this little thing, you do little.

I just need your little and big points.

Wait a minute, wait a minute, it starts beginning.

You do little, little, little.

Oh, you start out big.

Oh, shit.

First thing in the morning, you start out big.

Okay, you start out big, big.

Get little by the turn of the clock.

The first time you finish the turn.

Little, little, little.

Get bigger, bigger, biggest.

You go big, you go little, you go big.

You go on the turn.

Big, big, big, big.

Small, small, small.

Getting bigger into the suit new turn.

You're going small, right? No.

Suit new.

Yeah, I'm getting smaller, small, small, small, small, and big, big, big.

Cure in.

You'll probably make that a little slower.

We should lose the door, tighten back.

Beautiful.

Go.

Tighten to the feet.

You're just going to do a little twirl here.

When she does the twirl, there, we come back to the wide shot.

Oops.

We lost the leg.

We lost just the toe there.

We'll go a little tighter on this also, Steve.

We're going to save every take, but we'll do it again.

I'm confused as to whether I should make the big sort of beady and the small real fluid or whether it should be the opposite.

Don't think of that.

Think just of size.

Don't think about attack.

The attack should be the same, so don't worry about that.

Whether it's small or whether it's big, I mean, they're both fluid.

That's fine.

It's just a question of getting it to expand so that more and more you pull it out.

Jenny way is a superb ensemble dancer.

Her strength goes through a very precise and clear technique to provide a center around which others can comfortably arrange themselves.

I gave her the etude on focus.

She performs one phrase twice.

Both performances are seen simultaneously.

In tight focus, she begins small and releases her movement as the camera pulls back.

The other rendition commences with a small movement.

The camera moves in.

The camera moves in.

The camera moves in.

The camera moves in.

The camera moves in.

The camera moves in.

The camera moves in.

The camera moves in.

The camera moves in.

Okay.

Okay, so we have the two segments, right? Forget about the record rate on the disc now.

Just about what we're recording.

Okay, here we're going F, E, D, C.

Right.

And here we're going C, D.

And so E, D, C and E, D, C are in sync.

The question is will C, D time up with F? So you've done A, B, and your back is beginning A, right? Right.

Okay, now from there, go over your shoulder, forward, fast, fast, to the promenade as fast as you can get there.

And then you go backwards all the way.

And then you go right over your shoulder.

Okay, then you go forward all the way through to the end.

Period.

Okay? So that will be one segment.

Christine Uchida is one of the few dancers I find genuinely graceful.

No matter what speed she is dancing, she is a lyric dancer.

Her movement is seamless and her apparent ease totally endearing.

Her movement is seamless and her apparent ease totally endearing.

I should talk you right over this, Chris.

I should talk you right over this, Chris.

Twyla? And the other one is in thirds.

And the other one is in thirds.

When we stop.

Okay.

Okay.

I'm so confused.

I don't know.

Biff has to answer before I can answer.

Are we going into overtime now? Yes, we are.

I'm willing to do it again.

I'm not convinced it's as good as it could be done, but I don't know what it's going to cost.

I'm not convinced it's as good as it could be done, but I don't know what it's going to cost.

You know, I can't put a...

If it's going to take you six minutes and you haven't, and you want to do it, do it.

Can you do it? All right, then go back and set up.

Save everything.

Stop the playback, set up to record on fresh tape, please.

Okay.

Go down, and you'll reach about 13 minutes in, and you'll be on fresh tape.

Go down, and you'll reach about 13 minutes in, and you'll be on fresh tape.

So when I told you earlier we go out, you know, when employees are showing up several times, you know, it's not always good enough, we just have to set up the bitcoin, what else? Okay, so if you're following and they're really good, yeah, for the grand出 that I've seen before, I'm actually I'm also going to go for a quick little insert here.

there is always something arbitrary in this activity.

I used to have a dancer who argued that the only true retrograde would be done under the ocean in China.

Nonetheless, the Chris on the left dances a phrase forwards to a point then reverses it physically.

The Chris on the right was recorded first dancing forwards but is now being played back in reverse.

The exercise was designed so that at a certain point, the Chris on the left would meet up with the Chris on the right and the two of them go backwards together so that one might compare physical literal going backwardness with machine going backwardness and see how they differ.

Thus seeing what is physically possible and what is physically impossible but conceptually correct.

This is the real dichotomy that I find fascinating about television.

It can come closer to a conceptual rendition of movement in space than actual dancing.

You cannot retrograde gravity.

The machine can retrograde gravity so that the flow of the mechanical Chris going backwards is accurate but it's physically impossible.

It's right but it's wrong.

Rehearsal is a learning process.

This means dealing with things not yet quite understood and this is hard to accomplish in certain situations.

When working in the rehearsal studios at American Valley Theater, one is on constant public display.

There is no privacy.

There are windows into every studio and those looking through tend to dismiss the pleasures of watching dancers work and look instead for their flaws, which are many if you really try something new.

I have always believed that one of the great virtues of television is its ability to show intimacy in a way that can never ever be presented on the stage.

Of allowing an audience to see where a dance began, where it came from, how it evolved.

Michael Baryshnikov is one of the most generous people I know.

As a dancer this means he's capable of forgetting himself in order to transmit another person's thoughts.

Few performers are willing to forfeit themselves in this way, to go on learning.

Many dancers want to impress you with what they already know, with what they believe to be their strongest features.

Misha is secure enough to let go of all that and just try what he's asked to try with full good intent, good hearted and good nature.

Do you want to review first before we go on? Just all the steps.

All the old steps.

All the old steps.

Okay.

What did you say? I said what did you say? What did you say? What did you say? What did you say? What did you say? What did you say? What did you say? What did you say? What did you say? What did you say? What did you say? Are you sure we don't have a better recovery from that lift? Maybe it's possible to parapsycholate and you will be in position.

I know that's going to be a lot of weight on your legs.

But it's easier.

You're going to do the airbask.

I will do it.

Do nothing.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, that's good.

I like that.

I love that.

It's incredible.

That's wonderful.

I get motion sick very easily and dancing sometimes makes me quite ill.

I rarely allow myself to be lifted.

And that is because being picked up upsets my stomach.

And also, it's dangerous.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

Oh my God.

That's nice.

One more for the road was intended to be very quiet and very contained.

A private dance conceived more for the single viewer sitting comfortably at home than for one seated in the back or the front of a 4 ,000 seat house.

A piece to be seen up close.

There's nothing happening with the arms and the legs.

I didn't make anything for the arms and the legs.

It was made more for the void between us.

You can't do this to me.

Don't make it worse for me.

You won't have hope for the body outside the door.

You won't have hope for the body outside the door.

You won't have hope for the body outside the door.

You won't have hope for the body outside the door.

You won't have hope for the body outside the door.

You won't have hope for the body outside the door.

You won't have hope for the body outside the door.

You won't have hope for the body outside the door.

You won't have hope for the body outside the door.

You won't have hope for the body outside the door.

You won't have hope for the body outside the door.

I'm running for the road.

I'm running for the road.

I'm running for the road.

I'm running for the road.

I'm running for the road.

I'm running for the road.

I'm running for the road.

I'm running for the road.

I'm running for the road.

I was born in the country.

I have always been attracted by the energy of the country.

It's music, it's dancing, things grow there.

I decided to make a small television event with energy as its subject.

I made a pilgrimage to find Snuffy Jenkins and Pappy Sherrill.

Snuffy, nice to meet you.

Do you have a nice flight? Take that on time.

The king is here.

For the Alabama Jubilee.

My father played fiddle a bit and it used to be on these cross -country journeys.

We were only united as a family in cars.

I came to know how my mother and father felt about each other according to how they comported themselves in the front seat.

My father would always want to listen to the bluegrass music, but then my mother would change it to the Chicago Symphony playing some Beethoven or other, and this made me very unhappy because it put down my father and it put down cultural roots and it put down our heritage and went back to all this European bullshit stuff.

You guys are making it harder to pick now.

It's predictable.

Now I know it's dangerous to change your timing, but try to phrase it just a little differently so that it's like you're taking for granted that your partner's going to go.

It shouldn't appear to me as though that's the case.

And that was good.

This was good.

Turning trio is getting very good now.

This is getting good.

Good first PK.

Don't let us get frittled here.

When you get tired, what happens is you get very much like this, and it's not supple and all of this is happening.

Okay, you guys remember you're going to link arms first and then you're going under before you do this thing, right? When you bring her in.

This is good, Chris.

Now here particularly, let me see what you're doing.

Tell me what you're doing.

If you want it to be exactly the way the recording is, say we want the same number of verses, same number of choruses, exactly the way you did it in the recording.

That must be clarified with them before Sunday.

Sunday they've got to come in knowing exactly what they're going to do.

Okay? We're talking about now just one shift again, right? And going through it two or three times with one shift of audience.

I go on the record against that.

You think it should be two? About the fourth time we do it, it's going to be the best technical take.

It's going to be the one in which we've eliminated the hum in the guys' base.

It's going to be the one in which the light flare is now out of the crane camera.

On the fourth take, your audience cannot possibly be up to it.

That's what we're doing in the first room.

You see? You're right about that.

During the dinner break.

Wait, wait, wait.

Don't go so fast.

Dress and air? A dress would be done in the afternoon.

Then we let the crew go to dinner.

And we then react to what we've done with enough time and hour to make the changes necessary to make it work better.

To the second audience.

That's the way to do it, by the way.

I see you have an audience in on your dress rehearsal.

I'll be there in the afternoon.

Oh, cool.

That's good.

That's another reason I'm in a foul temper.

I can't do this solo yet.

I'm going to have to do it again.

Take it to the board.

I think I got the end.

I had to do it one more time.

I hope I didn't get it wrong.

I'm going to have to do it again.

I'm going to have to do it again.

I'm going to have to do it again.

I'm going to have to do it again.

Calvin Klein, 76.

$50 dungarees.

Is that true? Why did you do that? Because otherwise they fit like my dungarees.

Calvin Klein dungarees.

But Calvin Klein did not make for my waist this pants.

I can deal with the waist, I thought.

The hips worked.

This is my shorts.

My skirt is this color, but my shorts are...

Those are great colors.

I'm a little worried about this one.

Is it brown? I mean, as long as nobody's totally dressed.

I'm totally brown.

If you can get you a belt, what kind? I don't know.

Something that would look good.

Do you think western or chic? Chic.

And Klein belt.

We'll go find something.

Hillary has built in chic.

I just let her go.

Can you put some costumes Saturday on camera? You know that we need them 9 o 'clock Sunday morning for taping.

That's our dress rehearsal.

I mean, I can't.

Our bitches came from there.

Frantic has reached a new level in their lives.

So, how the man will let me in, will you? Oh, he won't let you in? No, he won't let me in.

Oh, it's okay.

It's her show.

This is a continuing problem for me.

I never have any identification.

The man asked me for a voucher.

A voucher of what? I don't have a driver's license.

I can't drive.

I have no credit cards.

I always pay with cash.

Nobody, I can't, I think they are.

I don't know who I am.

Come here, Twyla.

I need to talk to you.

It's important.

The floor is bubbling.

I was promised it wouldn't bubble on this side.

Where is it? Where is it? I took the slow side from because it wouldn't bubble.

It's buckled.

It's the surface now.

We have some things we can try and get done.

But it's 9 o 'clock.

Yeah.

I'm worried about hurting the dancers, number one.

And number two, whether or not dancing on top of that is going to crease or crack the anilium.

I think it will stretch it out.

Would it help? I don't know.

I believe so.

The look won't make it read on camera.

Okay, well then I would be...

It might help settle it.

How are you? It's nice to see you here.

Yeah, we know you're here.

So, I'm glad to see you here.

How are you? That's a nice looking shirt.

Thank you.

We have a lot to shake you around.

I want my masseur.

Then I want my hairdresser.

Then I want my dresser.

Then I want my position.

Then I want my chauffeur.

And then I want...

Okay.

It's fine.

Put your belt down.

Put your belt down, Carla.

I'm coming.

I am.

I'm starting to enjoy this.

If it's not going to be a long evening, it should be fun.

Now, are you ready to say a few words? No.

I think Carla's built being made up.

So, I'd say, folks, could you play something for us right now for a couple minutes? Okay.

Here we go.

Roll tape to record, please.

I want no talk at all in this control room.

Okay.

Beeps in, please.

Beeps out.

Read the tape.

And the rest? Strike it.

Take, put two on the line.

Stand by, please.

Thank you, three.

Roll the playback track.

Here we go.

Roll the tape.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Take, put two on the line.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Stand by, please.

Great.

And tilt straight down to the floor, Jake.

Good.

Out.

Okay, great.

Very nice, gentlemen.

Let's stop tape.

Very, very nice.

Now, Hank, explain it.

Twyla's not going to come in and do her show.

Let's stop recording.

Okay.

Now, she's going to cut at you and go to the floor.

Be quick.

Okay, now she's going to large circles to the left.

Very large.

Here she goes.

She's going to do a different turn, then stand by to tighten in.

Okay.

Just come to the crane one more time, and it'll just be the...

The whole thing done again on a different purpose.

Is that...

I got to have three minutes.

You got to get Twyla...

Three minutes.

...about to get over there.

Okay, it'll take time to move the cameras anyway.

Would you like to get out of the lights? You think that would be better? Want me to sit down? No, it's okay.

All right.

Thank you.

We got to get naturalistic.

But not grotesque.

Who's defining life around here? Five, four, three, two, one.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

That was okay, wasn't it? John, Twyla wants you to move.

Beautiful.

Beautiful.

Beautiful.

Thank you.

You did a very good job.

Yeah.

So where's the beer? Okay, now I got to go find out what the schedule for tomorrow is.

Tomorrow? Tomorrow.

I don't like television, but I like you a lot.

Okay, thanks a lot.

This section we haven't fixed.

We have to go there.

See, this section...

is the hole we have to fix.

Yeah.

Let's go back and look at that one more time, Grease.

Okay, what I was trying to see...

when you see these two figures going...

they go back and forth in tempo.

When the music begins, something else has to happen.

Yeah, well, it will.

I like that better.

I like that better too.

I really do.

At the beginning.

I like it at the very beginning, just for the introduction, the back and forth, but then the zoom, and then the fast one.

All right, okay.

Now, what we're talking about is a combination of the three of these two.

Well, we're nub in one hour on the first duet.

Quick cuts.

The try and figure would take us about 30 minutes.

I figured we would just put them up and do them on the switcher, but this is more interesting, what we're doing.

And will give us a better product.

It's amazing how many things after you do it, you know, you see all kinds of other possibilities.

That's what's supposed to happen.

That's what's supposed to happen.

This is WNAT New York.

This is WNAT New York.

This is WNAT New York.

This is WNAT New York.

This is WNAT New York.

This is WNAT New York.

Tony, can you hear me in there? Hey, we're running out of time, man.

We got 20 minutes.

Let's go.

I'm off.

I'm having a good time, but we gotta get moving.

Widen and come down to like a waist shot as she starts the hip movement.

Widen and come down to like a waist shot as she starts the hip movement.

Okay, come on.

Keep coming.

Nice.

That's nice.

I'd like to know whether we can go overtime.

Probably won't make it, we'll try, but I want to know whether we can go over 15 minutes.

Okay, let's go.

Let's roll to record this.

The moment when something comes into being, that's what the borderline is about.

It's about the points where things meet.

It's about when that which you imagine becomes real.

It's about having the least possible.

It's about having the silhouette.

Some while ago, like about four or five years ago, I used to dance on a farm.

And there was a hill where I did some movement.

And I remember that I had one of the dancers up there one time.

And it's sort of at sunset.

And what you saw just was this outline around them.

And I loved it so much because it was this meeting point of the earth and the sky and the fire of the sun setting down and just leaving the outline of the whole thing.

Tonight at 10 .30, Movie 11 presents Claude Joutras, My Uncle Antoine, one of the most honored Canadian films.

A young boy comes of age in the Canadian backwoods.

He learns to cope with the help of his remarkable uncle.

Do you know more about this item?
If you have more information about this item please contact us at info@chicagofilmarchives.com.