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You're right, you're, no, in a way you are right, no, Billy Banks said that too, this

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is off the record. No, well politics is a lot like war. A good political organization

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is like an army unit, a company or battalion, any way you want to look at it, a squad or

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a unit. The tactics are almost identical, the casualties are different, but there's

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a lot at stake. There's a strategy, a game plan, you've got to stick to it. You need

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to be able to react at the right times. There's a lot of ambushing going on, a lot. I mean,

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you need good leadership, you need leaders that can lead by example. I'm very thankful,

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our organization is very thankful that we have leaders from the state representative

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on down that do lead by example, knocking door to door, producing the numbers. And not

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just that, I mean actually physically working, picking up garbage, doing whatever needs to

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be done to make the constituents happy, no ego problems here. But going back to it, I

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mean you need your game plan, you need to stick to it, which is always the hardest thing

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to do. But then you also need to be able to be flexible enough to change, to meet those

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demands when they happen. You need to react at the right time with the right ammunition.

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And the war is won before the battle is fought. I mean it's a cliché, and in this business

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there's a lot of clichés, but it is. The game's won or lost before the final total's

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in. And that's the short end of it.

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Slumped it on, I mean there's nothing there for you. I think you guys might have read

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some of the local papers up in the ward. One of the guys that was joining us, Donnie Goodman,

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he made a comment in the paper, they asked him about what he thinks of the outcome, and

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he said that, I know we're going to be in a runoff, I just don't know by how much.

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Yeah, I guess it's a good thing for a politician to say before an election, but the kid does

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not know what he's talking about. The reporters knew that, but they wrote it anyway, that's

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fine. We know our numbers, you guys saw that, you saw how we operate. We've been doing it,

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well we, I mean I'm new to this organization, these guys have been doing it for the last

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20 years, and they haven't lost an election yet. So, the numbers might not be exact, but

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the sheer assault is going to be awfully close. And these guys, well Donnie Goodman, I know

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for a fact he hasn't done his homework, he's going to flunk, I mean it's very simple, he's

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lost. He might not want to admit it, he might be putting out a pretty face for the cameras

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or the press, but he's out. Our other opponent, Pezek, he's working, he's working hard, he's

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doing the right things as best as he can with the resources he has, but he's out of the

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game. He's obviously not going to admit defeat, but, well that's paragon, and what are you

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going to say to that? But he's out of the water. Why? Because we know.

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The guy was sort of rallying the troops, he kept saying, the worst thing we can do is

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beat him. The worst thing we can do is beat him.

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Well, that was kind of, of our worry in the organization was that, although we didn't

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tell the troops that we didn't have, after we did the poll we didn't really release the

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information to the troops as to how big of a lead we had, but you know, a good precinct

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captain walking the streets once will know what's going on there and what the feeling

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is. And that's a hard thing to control because once you get out there, I mean your good precinct

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captains, you know who they are, your precinct representatives, whatever you want to call

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them, they will be out there and you can count on them being out there if it's easier,

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if it's harder. The hard part is from boss' point of view, and I'm not one of them, but

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Brian and George and all these guys that are on the show, is keeping these guys motivated

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to stay out there when it's this good. You know, the other side obviously is to keep

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people out there when they know they're going to get their ass kicked, and then see it coming

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a mile away. But now, you know, we were afraid of it, you know, and that's why we have these

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report nights once or twice a week, just to check up on our guys, at least motivate them

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to get out on the street and work. Because when it is that good, it's easy for people

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to say, well shit, we got it, I can go home and this precinct will carry itself even by

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50, 100 votes, which is nice and it's comfortable, but you don't want that. You do want a big

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win, you want a big lead, because four years from now, you want to be a little bit more

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comfortable, you don't want to spend that much money, and you want another easy win.

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Fred Rupley. Fred Rupley, I met in 1981. I was so on my leave from the Army at a local

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He's a political geek. He loves politics, he lives politics. And we just met over at

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the bar when I was on leave. He saw me in uniform and we got to talking, and he just

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loves to talk politics. And then after I decided to get into politics, and we had some mutual

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friends, I got into the same organization with Fred. Fred is a good captain. He likes

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to call himself Emeritus, because he grew up in this organization from the beginning

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20 years ago, and he's right, he's ready for retirement from his job and from politics,

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but I don't think Fred will actually ever retire from political organizations. He'll

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still have his fingers in it because he just enjoys it. Now I think he's only walking half

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a precinct with another guy. Well, Fred's good. Fred does all the little things that

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need to be done. He knows how to get into the door, he knows how to walk into a house,

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he knows how to work a precinct. Whether it's his or not, if it's new or old or if it's

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his or not, he'll make it his. He'll get to know the people, he'll get to know their

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needs. And it's a sales job, and as luck would have it, Fred's job was sales. And he's good

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at it. Yeah, you're selling a product, and the product is the candidate. And you've got

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to figure out how you're going to do it. I mean, I'm very thankful that I have a good

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product to sell, and that's Brian Doherty. It's an easy sell, because the man is a good,

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it's an easy sell because it's a good product to sell. And people know him, and they love him.

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Who else would I do this for 32,000 a year? I took a $50,000 pay cut for Crying Out Loud.

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I love it. I love it. I wouldn't, don't repeat this to my boss, I would do it for nothing.

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Cut it. I would, I would do it for nothing. I would, I love his stuff. Okay, stop chipping.

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Are you guys making a movie? No, just education.

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Oh, my eyes are clear.

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I got a more frontal one.

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Yeah.

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... wins on Target, the only nighttime talk show that matters. A couple of announcements before

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we go into our 29th ward automatic round table. First off, you probably read the Defender today.

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If you didn't, you have probably heard that the Chicago Defender has endorsed Richard Bailey.

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Well, the Committee Against Plantation Politics, and this is the group which picketed some of the

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churches of the ministers who came out for Richard Bailey, the Committee Against Plantation

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Politics has sent the word out for you to join them Monday at 12 noon at the Chicago Defender,

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2400 South Michigan, and the Committee Against Plantation Politics is going to send a message

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to John Singstack, owner of the Chicago Defender, and the others who are in control of the editorial

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policy of the Defender that the Committee considers the Defender as an offender. So join us as we walk the lines

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in front of the Defender, 2400 South Michigan, Monday at 12 noon. Also, I want to tell you that there is

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reparations awareness today to know tomorrow, Saturday, sponsored by Encobra, and if you want

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more information, call 955-7808. We are, as I said, going to do our 29th ward round table. This is the

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last round of the round table. We've been doing them now for about three weeks with Cliff Kelly

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and myself. The 29th ward is the final ward, and I have in the studio not only the incumbent, but all

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of the challengers. Alleman Sam Burrell is here. Sam, welcome. Thank you. A challenger,

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Aola McGowan. Nice to see you. Floyd Thomas is here. Floyd, good to see you. And we have Otis Johnson.

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Welcome, Brother Johnson. And Carolyn Wheatfall Bearden. Thank you, Mr. Palmer, for the

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introduction. Well, we certainly are pleased to have all of you here. Sometimes they don't all come,

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particularly some of the incumbents who have indicated by their absence that they don't want

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to face the black community. But we have the incumbent here tonight, and we're going to start

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with our usual two-minute opening. We're going to ask you to take two minutes, tell us about yourselves,

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about your platform, anything you care to say, and I'll have the clock on you so you'll only get

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two minutes. We'll start with the, with the... Also for having me on, and I'd like to say that we

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certainly were a part of studying this particular seminar. We're very proud of that because the way

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we got there is with an organized community, and also by asking for this. What I've found is that

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you simply have to address issues of the continuing of program development and job creation for the next four years.

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Jobs are non-paid, non-salary. I have done a lot of things in my community as an activist.

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I remember when we had the old laws on the books where people were buying homes and they were buying

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on contract and since work. In addition to that, I've also did a lot of things as far as my professional

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affiliations. I belong to the coalition of labor union women. I'm with the National Association for

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Executive Females, and I was also the president of the State Street Business and Professional

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Women's Club. Thank you. All right, we go now to Floyd with the MC of several programs that when

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I was a kid, I was a member of the Deacons of Defense and Justice with Fats Crawford and

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Claudia Kirk, Ernest Thomas. I worked with Stokely Carmichael. I worked with Martin Luther King, SCLC,

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voter registration, education. I worked with CORE and all the civil rights movement. This candidate is

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just an extension of my civil rights work and my human rights work. I've been a lifelong member

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of the civil rights and it's very important that in order to see where a horse is going,

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you have to judge its past performance. Currently, I'm a member of the 29th board of people's

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assembly. I'm the chairman of the voter registration committee. I personally registered over 3,000

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voters within the last couple of years. We've been active in organizing block clubs. We've been active

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in organizing Young Be Here Lou because it's very important for the listening audience to get a

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chance to question all of our candidates to see where they stand on these very important issues.

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Thank you so much. All right, Otis Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Palmer. Let me have an opportunity to be

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here. My name is Otis Johnson. I am married. I have four kids, two of them college and one is high

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school. I am advocating that there's time for a change on the West side. We need to elect someone

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that's going to work for the best interests of the peoples in the community, not just for the

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politicians. I'm fortunate I don't have all that experience, as people say, with being

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part of this group or that group, but I just know the problems of the neighborhood from living in

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the neighborhood and being a part of the city service and whatnot like that. I advocate working for the

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peoples to find out what to deal with their problems, such as the city service, the garbage

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collected, the crime, the drugs, and whatnot like that to be an active working Ottoman and having a

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24-hour office where people can reach me and we can deal with the crime and the problems in the

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neighborhood. And if you want a change for the neighborhood, I say punch 114 on February 28.

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Thank you. Okay, I can see you're not a politician. You didn't take all your time.

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Carolyn Wheatfall Bearden. Thank you, Mr. Palmer. I am the daughter of Robert and Rosetta Wheatfall.

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I am married to Arnold Bearden and we have three children. I am an active member of First Baptist

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Congregational Church and I attend elementary school at Howleton Day School, my high school

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with Providence. I hold a BS degree from Lincoln University in Jefferson City, Missouri in music

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therapy and education. I have a master's of science degree in communications and interpersonal

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relations from Governor State University. I completed a year's internship in Milwaukee

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Thacky at Dracovpil in Wauwatosa, Wisconsin. I returned to my community where I've worked in

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the community mental health Austin YMCA, Londell Mental Health Center. I have taught in the Chicago

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public schools. Presently, I teach high school. I have 10 years experience in private industry,

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business management, and sales. I have run my own business. I am a candidate for Alderman of the 29th

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Board. My punch number is 118. All right, another person who didn't take their full two minutes.

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Very, very interesting. Well, you heard from the five, well the four challenges and the incumbent

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Alderman with a two-minute opener. We're going to take a break now. I'm going to come back with a

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question or two and then you can ask your questions at 591-5990.

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Okay, we're off. Got a lot of commercials tonight.

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If anybody's saying the Governor, I've seen even Mr. McGovern saying, I'm not saying Mr. McGovern's

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putting one there because a lot of times you don't have complete control of what individual

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workers do. A lot of them, they get frustrated, they get angry because they see things like that

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and they'll go out and do things like that. We don't encourage that. Any sign you ever seen,

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any of my workers put out? I never put a sign over your sign, right? No, I've never seen one.

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But I have seen, I've had a sign in a store and your sign was in a store. As a matter of fact,

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it's a restaurant on Central Madison. In Central Chicago. All of a sudden, my sign was down and

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your sign was still up. Can I accuse you of people who are doing that? No, I can't.

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No, all those signs were there. I put it up again. I know it. Somebody put both of your signs up.

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You're right about that. Both our signs were out there. As a matter of fact, Mr. McGovern had signs all in front of my house.

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My sign was out there. The next day I went out there and all our signs were gone. My sign, Mr. McGovern's sign and Carolyn's.

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That's all the signs. Let's just point, please. Everybody's got a lot of work to do.

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Everybody. I'll tell my workers, everybody's got a lot of work to do. Absolutely. That's really petty.

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Because we have the most disabilities. We have the most to lose. You know what I mean? So I definitely don't want to get into a

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place like this. We would rather for our workers. Tell me. I don't tell my workers. Just stop it. Let's stop it now.

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It doesn't make any sense that you got to put up a sign ten feet up in the air and they still come down.

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Let's put the signs at normal length and nobody bothers nobody's sign. That sign is truce right now because my guys, I know I'm not going to.

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Well you know there's an ordinance that says you're not supposed to put that stuff on city property in the first place.

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And all they're doing is littering the community because they're too lazy to get out and get to the people.

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You know polls don't vote. No you don't. I'm one street and I told you not to even be there.

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Carolyn, Carolyn, Carolyn. Let's be truthful. Let's tell the truth. Floyd Towns. Floyd Towns. Let me tell you one dog thing.

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My posters are not all over the community on trees. They are down one street. They are not.

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On one street? On one street or two streets? Or two and a half streets?

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The only reason why they're there is because those people decided to put them out in front of their own homes.

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I do not have posters all over the community.

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As a matter of fact, I woke up this morning and it was one of your flags on my car windshield.

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Was there a law that put something on a car windshield?

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All of us are guilty of that.

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You need to pass your own ordinance.

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All of us are guilty of that thing.

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No, I'm not guilty of that. I'm not guilty of that. I saw you, Floyd, tearing down Sam Burrell's sign.

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I'll let you know. Floyd Thomas tore down some of Sam Burrell's sign because Sam Burrell's workers put his sign over the top of mine.

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And Carolyn Wheatfield workers put his sign over the top of mine.

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One of his workers tried to be wild. Three o'clock in the morning. Sitting in front of Paul.

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I saw that man tear down his sign.

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Clayton is out of control. He's out of control.

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Slow down, Floyd. Slow down.

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You're not in school. You're not in school.

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I'm in mental health.

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The only something I'm asking is that you deserve this.

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We're not guilty. Everybody can talk to the police.

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We've had one of Sam Burrell's workers, Melvin Delph, come in and physically attack one of our workers.

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Y'all get me started. I gotta hear my cues.

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Y'all get me started. I gotta hear my cues.

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All right, stand by.

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OK, based on what I'm hearing off there, we're going to have a lively time tonight.

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I need to know, and others in the On Target family need to know exactly where the 29th Ward is.

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Alderman, I'm going to ask you to tell us what the boundaries are.

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All right, the boundaries are Roosevelt Road on the south, Austin Boulevard on the west.

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It runs along. It borders Oak Park to North Avenue and goes all the way to Wrightwood, 2600 North.

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Undecided.

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Right.

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OK, Floyd Thomas.

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I'm working for and supporting Joe Gardner for mayor.

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The four of you who are challenging, why you are challenging the incumbent,

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and then one minute for the incumbent to tell us why he should remain as the alderman.

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Ms. Bearden?

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I am challenging the incumbent because he has not been visible. He lacks leadership.

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He does not respond when you call him. City services are pitiful, and if he's doing anything,

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he must be doing it on the north end because he's not doing a doggone thing on the south end.

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And as a community resident, as an individual who have lived in the community for 26 years,

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I'm tired of this sorry leadership out of the 29th Ward that we have had an opportunity to see for a number of years.

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All right, Mr. Johnson?

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Yes, my name is Otis Johnson.

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The reason I'm challenging Mr. Burrell is several times we invited him to meetings.

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He didn't come out. And also, his stand on the drug issue.

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Unfortunately, the office he occupied for almost six years right there with Danny Davis,

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that's dope-infested right there outside of 5700 West Division.

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Talk into the mic, if you will.

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Okay, the reason I'm challenging him is because he hasn't came to any black club meetings when we called his office.

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He hasn't came to any black club meetings when we called his office. He's never been.

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Also, the main reason is the dope that's infested right by his office that he occupied with Danny Davis approximately six years.

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He just recently moved up on North Avenue, and I'm deployed being right down the street from Checker Restaurant

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that he hasn't taken a stand on the crime, the hijacking, and the mugging that goes on on that strip right by his office.

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Okay, I'm going to put a pin in there, and we'll go to Floyd Thomas.

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Ditto with what Ms. Bearden said and ditto with what Mr. Johnson said.

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Plus, Sam Burrell has turned his back on the black community.

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We put him in office, he turned his back, he jumps in the bed with Richard J. Daly.

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He moved his office out of Division Street over to North Avenue, 5902 West North Avenue.

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Mary Dale's office is 5900 West North Avenue. That's right next door.

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He needs to let the people know where he stands. Every time you ask him a tough question, he hasn't made a decision.

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What kind of alderman do we have that's afraid to make a decision before the election?

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The people in our community want to know where he stands before the election.

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Are you supporting Ricky Hendon? Are you supporting Joe Gardner? Are you supporting the incinerator?

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Are you supporting the referendum that we put on the ballot to get Commonwealth citizens to lower our elected rates?

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No, he won't take a stand. He hasn't made up his mind. When will you make up your mind, Sam?

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Time is up. But, darling, why are you running?

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I'm running because I hope to make an improvement in the quality of life for the people there in the 29th Ward.

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During this past summer, Lou, I really hadn't decided that I was going to run.

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I went to many special events in the ward. People were coming up to me, you've got to run.

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We've got problems with our services, our city services. We asked the alderman to come out to a block club meeting.

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He didn't come. We asked the alderman to do this. His staff in his office, they're just non-committal to anything when you call them.

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Alderman, in a way, in the world, you can answer all these charges in one minute, so I'll give you two minutes to answer all these charges.

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Well, first, let me thank the one candidate that gave my office address at 5902 West North Avenue, 60639. My phone number is 889-8282.

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And, yes, I did move over there and out of the office, but Lou, let me, we run a city service office over there.

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This is what we do. An alderman is responsible for investigating the concerns of the constituents and legislating where laws and appropriate things are needed and also finding ways to finance this.

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So this is what I do. I don't go around making my priorities, supporting candidates per se. I know all about the litmus test. I know all about racism.

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But what I do is I deliver services. We have computerized that office. There's absolutely no way that one can get away with saying that we don't respond to people.

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All you have to do is call and all you have to do is take a list of our block club people and our community organizations and ask them, do a poll on them.

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The one thing we do do very well is city services. And, yes, we have, you see this capital improvement program that we do in the 29th Ward.