WEBVTT

1
00:00:06.600 --> 00:00:08.900
Before we start, I'm going to be going up to where?

2
00:00:08.900 --> 00:00:12.060
Going to go up to the, up to 43rd Street.

3
00:00:12.120 --> 00:00:17.720
Turn right on 43rd Street, take the Dan Ryan, go up over to 30, you'll hear him in the

4
00:00:17.720 --> 00:00:18.280
pulpit.

5
00:00:18.400 --> 00:00:18.880
I'll bet.

6
00:00:19.040 --> 00:00:19.660
Yeah, I actually, wow.

7
00:00:20.240 --> 00:00:22.020
Oh, he is something else.

8
00:00:23.940 --> 00:00:35.880
Such a strong, really a strong man, you know, he's, when people say things to him, you know,

9
00:00:36.300 --> 00:00:43.260
I remember the first time that I asked him about his support to me, which was in like

10
00:00:43.260 --> 00:00:44.600
a couple of elections ago.

11
00:00:45.360 --> 00:00:54.400
And I was going in to talk to him, you know, and we knew each other, but not nearly like

12
00:00:54.400 --> 00:00:55.400
we know each other.

13
00:00:56.040 --> 00:01:02.340
And basically, we knew each other more by reputation than we did really knowing.

14
00:01:03.700 --> 00:01:09.240
And so I had gotten to know him where I would, at least knew, where he knew who I was and

15
00:01:09.240 --> 00:01:09.800
so forth.

16
00:01:10.340 --> 00:01:12.420
So I got time for the endorsement.

17
00:01:12.420 --> 00:01:20.820
And I said to him, I said, knowing that his church is really like the, his church is really

18
00:01:20.820 --> 00:01:26.200
the, Jesse is an associate pastor there or an assistant pastor, whichever one you want

19
00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:26.940
to call him.

20
00:01:27.160 --> 00:01:34.180
And his congregation is deeply rooted in Operation Push and so forth.

21
00:01:34.740 --> 00:01:41.640
So I didn't know, you know, where he, how far he could go out.

22
00:01:41.640 --> 00:01:44.540
He seemed favorable to the mayor, but I didn't know.

23
00:01:44.720 --> 00:01:50.020
So I said to him, I said, well, I said, we're going to, I said, like to have some guys to

24
00:01:50.020 --> 00:01:50.800
endorse the mayor.

25
00:01:51.580 --> 00:01:57.460
I said, but I can understand if you're not, he said, Chuck, he says, I'm going to be for

26
00:01:57.460 --> 00:01:57.640
him.

27
00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:01.000
He says, if I'm going to be for him, he says, I'm going to say I'm for him.

28
00:02:01.500 --> 00:02:05.260
He says, and no, he said, I'm not going to take any back steps at all.

29
00:02:05.260 --> 00:02:06.640
He said, I'm for him.

30
00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:09.500
He says, and I'm going to let everybody know I'm for him.

31
00:02:09.500 --> 00:02:11.380
And I want everybody else to vote for him.

32
00:02:11.880 --> 00:02:15.440
And he has been that kind of guy.

33
00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:19.960
You know, nothing shady about him at all.

34
00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:21.600
Yeah.

35
00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:22.520
Let's hold off.

36
00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:51.000
Well, anybody who's in command and the way ministers are, just their character, you know,

37
00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:55.060
they are, they have big egos.

38
00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:56.420
And yes, you do.

39
00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:05.780
And but you just have to, over a period of time, you learn how to work with them, you

40
00:03:05.990 --> 00:03:09.750
know, and let it go.

41
00:03:10.330 --> 00:03:15.850
But they are a great group of guys to work with because I think that everything that

42
00:03:15.850 --> 00:03:21.230
I talked about, basically, you've seen that they were saying, you know, like I said, the

43
00:03:21.230 --> 00:03:28.010
holistic ministry, most of the ministers today understand they just can't, just can't preach

44
00:03:28.870 --> 00:03:34.770
about the gospel and what the moral thing should be.

45
00:03:34.770 --> 00:03:41.690
It's also about taking care of people while they're here on earth, you know, and that's

46
00:03:41.690 --> 00:03:43.590
where they are, basically.

47
00:03:44.970 --> 00:03:50.470
And the good ministers, I mean, the ones who have big congregations, that's where they

48
00:03:50.470 --> 00:03:50.810
are.

49
00:03:52.430 --> 00:04:00.430
You were saying something also, I think, last week about all the different kinds of people

50
00:04:00.430 --> 00:04:01.450
you have to invite.

51
00:04:02.410 --> 00:04:06.830
I mean, if I was to ask you, why can't you just invite one powerful minister and have

52
00:04:06.830 --> 00:04:08.550
him come after the mayor and down for the mayor?

53
00:04:08.570 --> 00:04:14.270
Because that wouldn't represent all of the different denominations.

54
00:04:16.350 --> 00:04:26.110
Everybody has to see their people involved in an endorsement session like that.

55
00:04:26.110 --> 00:04:34.950
Everybody who's in charge of large groups, you have to make sure that they have a chance

56
00:04:34.950 --> 00:04:35.590
to speak.

57
00:04:36.590 --> 00:04:39.070
They have to see their people involved.

58
00:04:39.230 --> 00:04:44.430
Well, you know, it's just like if you had a situation where you were asking Hispanics

59
00:04:44.430 --> 00:04:46.090
to come and endorse the mayor.

60
00:04:46.390 --> 00:04:50.570
You couldn't have a Mexican speaking for a Puerto Rican.

61
00:04:51.410 --> 00:04:55.510
They want to see the Puerto Rican guy speak or the Cuban guy, you know.

62
00:04:55.510 --> 00:04:59.150
Everybody's got to have his own speaking and that's the way the ministers are.

63
00:04:59.330 --> 00:04:59.950
So for example?

64
00:05:00.710 --> 00:05:00.710


65
00:05:00.710 --> 00:05:01.250
For example?

66
00:05:01.970 --> 00:05:08.490
Well, for an example, Bishop Louis H. Ford is the head of the Churches of God in Christ.

67
00:05:09.130 --> 00:05:16.450
And while Bishop Ford might not, he has his own endorsement techniques and so forth, but

68
00:05:16.450 --> 00:05:22.310
yet he will send his representatives to an endorsement session where all the other ministers

69
00:05:22.310 --> 00:05:23.690
are going to be.

70
00:05:23.690 --> 00:05:29.490
Bishop Brazier is the head of all of the apostolic churches in the city.

71
00:05:29.730 --> 00:05:35.190
And even though there are about, I think there are four other, four or five other apostolic

72
00:05:35.190 --> 00:05:41.370
bishops in the city of Chicago, Bishop Brazier is generally recognized as the leader of the

73
00:05:41.370 --> 00:05:43.810
apostolic church in the city of Chicago.

74
00:05:44.450 --> 00:05:49.830
We have Bishop Davis, his diocese is actually in the state of New York, but he lives and

75
00:05:49.830 --> 00:05:51.130
resides in the city of Chicago.

76
00:05:51.130 --> 00:05:58.130
I guess what I was asking is that if, I remember you ticked off all the different denominations

77
00:05:58.130 --> 00:05:58.930
that were there.

78
00:05:59.330 --> 00:06:02.450
And if you could just, we just need to, that's sort of a really interesting thing.

79
00:06:02.890 --> 00:06:06.210
It speaks to the diversity in the black community for one thing.

80
00:06:06.370 --> 00:06:11.170
Okay, well in the denominations you have the Baptists, you have the Methodists, you have

81
00:06:11.170 --> 00:06:18.990
the United Methodists, you have the Christ Methodists, you have the AME Church which

82
00:06:18.990 --> 00:06:24.710
is the African American Methodist Episcopal Church, you have the Lutheran Church, you

83
00:06:24.710 --> 00:06:28.270
have the Spiritual Church, you have...

84
00:06:33.750 --> 00:06:39.550
But they all want their say and they all want to be recognized.

85
00:06:39.550 --> 00:06:51.370
And you can't have a Baptist minister up speaking only when the bishop of the AME, the African

86
00:06:51.370 --> 00:06:54.430
American Episcopal Church is in the audience as well.

87
00:06:55.190 --> 00:06:58.970
Just can't be, the Churches of God and Christ, you can't have that.

88
00:07:00.970 --> 00:07:01.330
Okay?

89
00:07:01.330 --> 00:07:02.590
That was it, yeah.

90
00:07:04.170 --> 00:07:04.730
Okay, I'm up.

91
00:07:05.490 --> 00:07:06.830
Down the river down there.

92
00:07:08.850 --> 00:07:13.130
A piece of my copper come off last night off my house.

93
00:07:13.190 --> 00:07:13.910
Is this the right way?

94
00:07:14.170 --> 00:07:15.130
Yeah, yeah, off the...

95
00:07:23.670 --> 00:07:25.370
And you're right over here on the left, aren't you?

96
00:07:25.550 --> 00:07:28.170
I'm right here where this big car is.

97
00:07:28.710 --> 00:07:29.350
Right here.

98
00:07:29.430 --> 00:07:29.930
Right here?

99
00:07:30.070 --> 00:07:30.450
Okay.

100
00:07:30.710 --> 00:07:34.310
When I ask you a question like, what's politics like in Chicago, then you should just start

101
00:07:34.310 --> 00:07:36.470
by saying, you know, politics in Chicago is.

102
00:07:37.650 --> 00:07:37.650


103
00:07:37.930 --> 00:07:39.490
Yeah, what politics in Chicago is like.

104
00:07:40.090 --> 00:07:42.770
Okay, so I'm going to throw you a softball over here because you might know something

105
00:07:42.770 --> 00:07:43.170
about this.

106
00:07:43.310 --> 00:07:44.770
What's politics like in Chicago?

107
00:07:46.570 --> 00:07:50.290
Politics is like in Chicago is like no other place in the world.

108
00:07:50.290 --> 00:07:56.170
This is the major league of the political world in the city of Chicago.

109
00:07:56.170 --> 00:08:05.690
It's a city of neighborhoods and the ethnic diversity of our city lends to the politics

110
00:08:05.690 --> 00:08:11.110
and it's a fascinating business being in politics in the city of Chicago.

111
00:08:11.530 --> 00:08:19.950
I've had people who were just hangers-on basically and what I want to call my friends

112
00:08:19.950 --> 00:08:27.030
on, but my barber, who was the guy who cut my hair and he left Chicago, went to Phoenix,

113
00:08:27.230 --> 00:08:33.030
Arizona, became basically one of the biggest guys in politics in Phoenix, Arizona.

114
00:08:33.510 --> 00:08:39.650
I have another friend who went to Oakland, California, who was just one of the guys and

115
00:08:40.470 --> 00:08:45.450
he's an advisor to the mayor in Oakland now and so forth.

116
00:08:45.450 --> 00:08:53.830
When people leave Chicago, they're well equipped to know about politics anyplace.

117
00:08:54.290 --> 00:08:56.450
You came up in the political ranks over here.

118
00:08:56.690 --> 00:08:59.290
How did politics work here on a street level?

119
00:08:59.710 --> 00:09:01.910
How does the organization work from your experience?

120
00:09:02.610 --> 00:09:11.330
Well, as I experienced it, I came into politics in 1955 probably at the height of the

121
00:09:11.330 --> 00:09:12.550
Dawson era.

122
00:09:13.010 --> 00:09:19.170
Congressman Dawson was the political leader of five southside wards at the time.

123
00:09:21.090 --> 00:09:25.490
Our organization was built on service, service to our neighbors.

124
00:09:26.610 --> 00:09:31.170
We had a precinct, an organization was organized around the precinct.

125
00:09:31.730 --> 00:09:38.010
Precinct normally around 550 to 600 voters in each precinct, an ward.

126
00:09:38.570 --> 00:09:44.550
Ward normally with 60 precincts and each precinct then divided with 500 to 700,

127
00:09:44.590 --> 00:09:47.430
five, 600 registered voters in each one.

128
00:09:47.490 --> 00:09:53.770
Might have been 700 people in the precinct, but only maybe five to 600 who were actually registered

129
00:09:53.770 --> 00:09:54.230
voters.

130
00:09:56.370 --> 00:10:04.290
The precinct captain was the link between the commitment and the people and he took care of

131
00:10:04.290 --> 00:10:09.050
the party's business and those candidates sponsored by the political party.

132
00:10:09.930 --> 00:10:15.730
It was based though on what kind of service we could give, what kind of community service we

133
00:10:15.730 --> 00:10:21.750
could give. We had an interest in the schools, we had an interest in everything that dealt with

134
00:10:21.750 --> 00:10:24.270
politics in the ward.

135
00:10:26.110 --> 00:10:30.670
So did you consider back in those days, I mean was the precinct captain the most important person in

136
00:10:30.670 --> 00:10:32.570
the organization in terms of that individual voter?

137
00:10:32.570 --> 00:10:35.650
Well no, no question about it. He was the, he was the link.

138
00:10:35.650 --> 00:10:38.270
Start by saying the precinct captain, but you have to say the precinct captain, so no question.

139
00:10:38.270 --> 00:10:47.230
The precinct captain was the greatest link to the voter in the war. He was the, he was the person who

140
00:10:47.230 --> 00:10:54.890
on a day-to-day basis was expected to see the people, talk to them, to see what their needs were.

141
00:10:54.890 --> 00:11:04.030
And he kept in touch with everybody. He knew when a new baby was born, when somebody died,

142
00:11:04.350 --> 00:11:11.910
what the needs of the people were, who didn't have food, those kinds of things. And we took care

143
00:11:11.910 --> 00:11:15.590
of the people and their needs, their basic needs.

144
00:11:16.150 --> 00:11:20.830
Now in those days was the, in a black, in a plaque precinct, would the precinct leader be

145
00:11:20.830 --> 00:11:30.210
white or black? Most in a black ward, in those days in, if the ward was already a black ward,

146
00:11:31.570 --> 00:11:37.070
and it was in say on the south side, in the south side area, when I came, when I came on board,

147
00:11:37.730 --> 00:11:44.190
the five wards on the south side, the second, the third, the fourth, the sixth, and the 20th,

148
00:11:45.550 --> 00:11:52.050
they were already black wards with black ward commitment. On the west side, however,

149
00:11:52.730 --> 00:11:59.630
the wards were changing where the voting population was black, but the precinct captains

150
00:11:59.630 --> 00:12:06.570
and the ward commitment, the aldermen were still white. And that changed around 1960.

151
00:12:07.190 --> 00:12:12.510
I think they had the first election of a black alderman on the west side in 1963. Ben Lewis was

152
00:12:12.510 --> 00:12:19.070
the first black alderman on the west side. I believe that was 1963. That was the first time

153
00:12:19.070 --> 00:12:25.310
that, and that change came very rapidly after that time. And of course, the south side wards were

154
00:12:25.930 --> 00:12:32.950
expanding, and every time they expanded, it was because the neighborhood became African American,

155
00:12:32.970 --> 00:12:36.290
and therefore an African American would take over as a ward commitment.

156
00:12:36.770 --> 00:12:41.230
Now you came into the organization of Congressman Dawson. Tell us about Congressman Dawson and his

157
00:12:41.230 --> 00:12:47.250
importance and what his organization was like. Well, in my opinion, Congressman Dawson,

158
00:12:48.190 --> 00:12:55.990
he was the, he epitomized what an organization should be. He had been an officer in World War

159
00:12:55.990 --> 00:13:03.590
I in the Army. He had gotten his law degree at Northwestern University. He worked on the railroad

160
00:13:03.590 --> 00:13:13.310
as a Pullman porter. So, and he was a lawyer, and he knew just what an organization, the discipline

161
00:13:13.310 --> 00:13:19.690
needed in an organization, and that's the way the organization was set up. Whatever he said,

162
00:13:19.830 --> 00:13:27.330
that was what we did. And when somebody disagreed with the congressman, he would say to you very

163
00:13:27.330 --> 00:13:31.690
quickly, now if you want to run your own organization, get you some precinct captains and

164
00:13:31.690 --> 00:13:39.690
let's start a fight. And that was his way. And of course, nobody wanted to start a fight with

165
00:13:39.690 --> 00:13:47.350
the congressman because he was all powerful. Was he hands-on? He was a hands-on operator. Yes,

166
00:13:47.350 --> 00:13:54.670
he had a hands-on operation. The congressman knew the wine heads on the street. He knew the doctors,

167
00:13:54.830 --> 00:14:01.550
the lawyers. People could approach him, no matter who they were, they could stop him on the street

168
00:14:01.550 --> 00:14:07.730
and talk to him. He would stop his car and get out and go. He had only one, you know, he had a false leg,

169
00:14:07.730 --> 00:14:15.290
but he would walk for blocks down the street just to talk to people. And on Saturday mornings,

170
00:14:16.370 --> 00:14:22.990
when we would be in the headquarters, people would bring to the headquarters hams and

171
00:14:24.820 --> 00:14:34.600
spaghetti and food for us during the day and bake cakes and bring coffee. And that was not at election time,

172
00:14:34.620 --> 00:14:41.460
that was like on any given Saturday, somebody would fix a lunch and bring it to the headquarters and

173
00:14:43.260 --> 00:14:49.500
those guys who played pinnacle would be there with the congressman playing pinnacle. And of course,

174
00:14:49.500 --> 00:14:54.360
while he was having a pinnacle game, he was of course asking questions as to what was going on

175
00:14:54.360 --> 00:15:05.040
and so forth. And we had an organization where many times, 10, 11 o'clock at night, we were going to

176
00:15:05.040 --> 00:15:11.340
the hospital to take somebody who couldn't get an ambulance for a sick person to go to the hospital.

177
00:15:11.500 --> 00:15:19.020
Somebody was at the headquarters to render that kind of service to them. So it was definitely

178
00:15:19.020 --> 00:15:23.920
a hands-on kind of organization. Now how did you get involved? And you were telling us about how

179
00:15:23.920 --> 00:15:30.460
the congressman used to use you at meetings as an example. Yeah, well, I got involved because I was

180
00:15:30.460 --> 00:15:49.000
of course at that time young and full of enthusiasm. And I lived with my family in the Harold L. Ickes

181
00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:57.360
CTA driver and the precinct captain came by and a friend of mine told me, said, I'd been refused

182
00:15:58.680 --> 00:16:04.940
because I'd taken the examination and they told me for the first time that I was colorblind.

183
00:16:07.220 --> 00:16:11.220
And a friend of mine said, well, they might have made a mistake and maybe your precinct captain

184
00:16:11.220 --> 00:16:19.320
can get them to re-examine your eyes. So I talked to the precinct captain and we had a long

185
00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:25.620
conversation and he said to me, he says, why don't you become my representative in the Young

186
00:16:25.620 --> 00:16:29.900
Democrats? And I said, I don't know anything about that. He says, well, he says, come down to the

187
00:16:29.900 --> 00:16:35.440
organization and be a part of the organization and you can be my representative in the Young Democrats.

188
00:16:35.860 --> 00:16:40.600
And I agreed to do that and I kind of caught the eye of the congressman because I was asking a lot

189
00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:45.920
of questions and every time somebody would say something, I'd have something to say. So he said,

190
00:16:46.280 --> 00:16:52.780
well, he says, you think you're pretty smart. And he was standing in the back of the room and he said,

191
00:16:52.900 --> 00:16:57.800
you think you're pretty smart? I said, no. I said, I don't, I just want to know. He said, well,

192
00:16:57.800 --> 00:17:09.840
I'll tell you what we'll do. So can we pick up the story again right before he said he made you a

193
00:17:13.560 --> 00:17:16.920
president? And he said, well, I'm a president. And he said, well, I'm a president. And he said,

194
00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:21.060
well, I'm a president. And he said, well, I'm a president. And he said, well, I'm a president.

195
00:17:22.280 --> 00:17:26.240
And he said, well, I'm a president. And he said, well, I'm a president. And he said, well, I'm a

196
00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:29.000
president. And he said, well, I'm a president. And he said, well, I'm a president. And he said,

197
00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:32.720
well, I'm a president. And he said, well, I'm a president. And he said, well, I'm a president.

198
00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:41.080
I was like at the number 10 position in the ward, which is a pretty honorable position to be in.

199
00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:46.160
You got 60 precents and you're in the top 10. So I just made the top 10.

200
00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:48.620
Now, what do you mean by the number 10 district? Can you explain it to us?

201
00:17:49.140 --> 00:17:55.800
Okay. What I mean by the number, the 10th precents are taken in rank. The, the precent that brings

202
00:17:55.800 --> 00:18:04.380
in the best vote for an election is the number one precent and right down the line. So if you're the

203
00:18:04.380 --> 00:18:11.060
number 10th precent, it means that you were the 10th best precent in the ward. And so I was like

204
00:18:11.060 --> 00:18:18.620
the 10th best precent in my first election. And I discussed it with a friend of mine who was Alan

205
00:18:18.620 --> 00:18:22.940
Hunt at the time, who was a Congressman's secretary. And I said to him, I said, you know,

206
00:18:22.940 --> 00:18:28.820
if I'd spent a hundred dollars, I'd have been two or three in the, in, in, in the rankings.

207
00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:33.420
And he said to me, he said, wouldn't it have been worth it? And from that day on,

208
00:18:34.560 --> 00:18:41.440
I did whatever I had to do to make sure that I had the workers on the street, that I took care

209
00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:50.320
of my precent, made sure that I had poll watchers to make sure that I had taken care of people in

210
00:18:50.320 --> 00:18:57.900
the precent so that I would get a good vote. And after my first election, then on for 11 years,

211
00:18:58.020 --> 00:19:04.860
I was the number one precent captain in the second ward. And my last vote in the precent was 508 to

212
00:19:04.860 --> 00:19:10.480
three. And the old man would use me when I say the old man, I mean, Congressman Dawson,

213
00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:18.980
because I was the youngest precent captain in the ward for many years, actually. I would,

214
00:19:18.980 --> 00:19:27.060
he would ask me to at the last, the last Friday before an election, which was always on a Tuesday,

215
00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:35.340
he would ask me to come up and say a word at the end. And I would always kind of stick it to the

216
00:19:35.340 --> 00:19:39.440
other precent captains by saying, you know, I'm the youngest precent captain in this ward,

217
00:19:39.460 --> 00:19:44.680
and you should be out, you should be out voting me, but you're not, and you're not going to out

218
00:19:45.600 --> 00:19:51.240
and the precent captains would have the chairs up and telling me they're going to beat me and

219
00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:55.980
they're going to get me, you know, and I mean, some of them will be really demonstrative

220
00:19:55.980 --> 00:20:03.420
in their conversations, you know, about what they wanted to do to me. But everybody always,

221
00:20:03.660 --> 00:20:08.520
it was, it was his way of lighting a fire under everybody, no matter what election,

222
00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:14.180
no matter what time it was, we, we didn't have anybody else to fight, not really the Republicans.

223
00:20:14.180 --> 00:20:19.120
We fought ourselves as to which one was going to bring in the top vote. And that's the way,

224
00:20:19.520 --> 00:20:25.540
that's the way our organization was. This was the, the second ward was the mother ward of all the

225
00:20:25.540 --> 00:20:31.440
black wards in the city of Chicago. It was the first and it was the most powerful ward in the,

226
00:20:31.540 --> 00:20:34.780
in the city of Chicago and so far as African Americans are concerned.

227
00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:39.020
This was the time when Mayor Daley, the old man was mayor.

228
00:20:39.020 --> 00:20:46.320
In 1955, we elected Mayor Richard J. Daley the first time and it was Congressman Dawson's

229
00:20:46.320 --> 00:20:55.020
organization that really put the, put the mayor over the first time because the Tribune would

230
00:20:55.760 --> 00:21:06.820
ran an editorial and a cartoon and they had Mayor Daley who was at that time the, the county clerk

231
00:21:06.820 --> 00:21:14.240
and they had him sitting on Dawson's lap and Dawson, they had Dawson pictured with a big cigar

232
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:23.040
and a derby hat and call him boss Dawson and like Daley was his puppet and I guess that was to

233
00:21:23.040 --> 00:21:30.640
spur the white vote to, to vote for his opposition and but we carried the day because

234
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:36.700
we, we produced the, the real vote and the real margin of victory for the mayor at that time.

235
00:21:36.820 --> 00:21:40.140
That was Daley's secret weapon wasn't as a relationship with, you were telling us about

236
00:21:40.140 --> 00:21:44.840
his relationship with, with, with Congressman Dawson? I think it was. There's no question that,

237
00:21:45.040 --> 00:21:53.800
that was his, his real, that was his bat. That was his, the bat that he used against all of

238
00:21:53.800 --> 00:21:58.660
his enemies was Congressman Dawson because of the kind of vote we could produce out here.

239
00:21:59.320 --> 00:22:05.460
What about all the talk that Daley and black, black voters and black politicians were

240
00:22:06.340 --> 00:22:10.000
enemies? See that's, that's, that's the thing that people I think will be surprised.

241
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:19.700
They don't know Chicago politics. Well that comes in a different era. What happened was as Daley rose

242
00:22:20.860 --> 00:22:32.100
up in the ranks and gained his own statue as a mayor, the blight vote became diluted

243
00:22:33.340 --> 00:22:39.060
and because, and what I mean when, because as, as blikes moved here from the south,

244
00:22:39.500 --> 00:22:46.440
as blikes started to move out into other areas, the independent movement started to take hold

245
00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:52.700
and as the independent movement started to take hold, that diluted the democratic vote from blikes

246
00:22:52.700 --> 00:23:01.220
in the city of Chicago. So we didn't have as much influence and the, and the other part of it was

247
00:23:01.220 --> 00:23:09.180
Dawson was getting older. Dawson was, I think Dawson died in 1969. He had to be 81 years old

248
00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:18.520
when he died. He was in senility when, when he passed. He was not the same Dawson that I knew in

249
00:23:18.520 --> 00:23:30.920
1955 obviously and so we were, we lost that and we really didn't have the chain of command to pick up

250
00:23:31.540 --> 00:23:40.100
where Dawson left off. There, there was a fight that ensued between Metcalfe and Holman at the time

251
00:23:40.100 --> 00:23:47.740
who were two powerful aldermen for the seat that Dawson was, had left behind and the blight vote

252
00:23:47.740 --> 00:23:56.380
was splintered and the blight power of course was splintered and did not regain that kind of

253
00:23:56.380 --> 00:24:00.080
importance until the election of Harold Washington in reality.

254
00:24:00.800 --> 00:24:03.100
So what's the position now of the blight vote in Chicago?

255
00:24:04.580 --> 00:24:13.020
Well, diluted only from the, from the strength that we don't, that we're not exercising the

256
00:24:13.020 --> 00:24:20.600
right to vote. We're not voting. The blight vote is there. The vote is there. The numbers are there.

257
00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:32.720
They are not exercising that right to vote and therefore it's, it's just not, the, the,

258
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:44.380
the power is diluted but I think that the church has rallied much in the last three or four years.

259
00:24:44.660 --> 00:24:52.320
I think that the church has rallied a lot of the, the, the power. At least they have a,

260
00:24:53.080 --> 00:25:02.700
they have an open door to the mayor. The mayor sees them as a, as a base of strength and I think

261
00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:10.840
that that is something that's building and, and, and coming back now. So I would think that

262
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:18.800
it will, you will start to see it come back and I think really the, the, the Republican election

263
00:25:19.600 --> 00:25:25.740
is going to have a big effect on African Americans because thus far they haven't,

264
00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:30.780
they just haven't had enough time to see what the repercussions are going to be.

265
00:25:30.780 --> 00:25:36.780
But once they start to see what's going to happen under this contract with America and how it's

266
00:25:36.780 --> 00:25:43.680
going to affect minorities, the taking away things like affirmative action where many

267
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:51.100
black contractors and, and companies have made money, especially here in Chicago, to see that

268
00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:59.800
diluted, to see the summer jobs program kind of fall by the wayside is going to

269
00:25:59.800 --> 00:26:06.020
wake up and people vote. Their motivation to vote is when they get angry. They,

270
00:26:06.700 --> 00:26:12.260
that's what makes them come alive and understand that they need to exercise their right to vote.

271
00:26:12.820 --> 00:26:17.680
Now in the community as we travel around the city, there seems to be, you know, there are

272
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:22.000
different tugs on the community. I mean, you've got people, you know, who are obviously have ties

273
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:26.860
to Mayor Daley, you know, have seen, you know, been able to work with Mayor Daley. There's also a lot

274
00:26:26.860 --> 00:26:31.760
political people who are not only against him, but vehemently against him. How does that work

275
00:26:31.760 --> 00:26:35.920
with the community? I mean, what do you see in terms of the black community in Chicago now,

276
00:26:36.040 --> 00:26:41.420
you know, in terms of Mayor Daley? Well, in terms of the mayor, the mayor hasn't made anybody angry.

277
00:26:42.140 --> 00:26:50.540
The mayor has basically been a good mayor, serving and being open to most of the people in Chicago.

278
00:26:52.080 --> 00:27:01.280
Even his critics, I think, would say that he has tried to reach out to them. And because they are

279
00:27:01.280 --> 00:27:09.740
opposed to the mayor, there are people who just, that's their, therefore somebody else and they're

280
00:27:09.740 --> 00:27:15.540
going to give the opposition. That's something that just can't be restrained, I don't think. I

281
00:27:15.540 --> 00:27:22.480
mean, and opposition is good. It's good for everybody, really. Everybody can't be going

282
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:32.540
in the same direction. But I think that the mayor's success is that we do have access to the mayor.

283
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:39.220
The leadership has access to the mayor and especially through the largest organization

284
00:27:39.220 --> 00:27:44.260
in the African-American community, and that is the church. Now, you came up in a politics that was

285
00:27:44.260 --> 00:27:48.500
really organizational based, where the precinct captains really went out and worked. The Aldermen

286
00:27:48.500 --> 00:27:53.180
really had a close connection to people. Things have changed a lot, haven't they? They have changed

287
00:27:53.180 --> 00:28:01.720
an awful lot since I came up in politics. The media, now, if a person does not have the kind

288
00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:10.500
of resources to get media attention, it's very hard for them to get to the voters. They don't have

289
00:28:10.500 --> 00:28:18.800
precinct captains because they don't have jobs to give them. The political jobs was a way to reward

290
00:28:18.800 --> 00:28:25.940
people who worked for you. And since you don't have that, you have to go to a community base

291
00:28:26.620 --> 00:28:32.520
of volunteers. And volunteers are just not going to do what people are going to do when it's their

292
00:28:32.520 --> 00:28:38.020
profession to go out and try to get the vote. So does that lead to less interest in the community,

293
00:28:38.020 --> 00:28:44.820
lower turnout? Well, I think it's left. I think it's led to lower turnouts in the community. And

294
00:28:44.820 --> 00:28:50.260
people are not as interested because when your neighbor can come and knock on the door and tell

295
00:28:50.260 --> 00:28:55.000
you that they want to talk to you about a candidate or they want to get you at a coffee sip and sit

296
00:28:55.000 --> 00:29:00.920
down and talk about a candidate, it means a lot more than seeing somebody on television that you've

297
00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:06.260
never seen before. And there's always conversation around the table today. This guy's not saying

298
00:29:07.730 --> 00:29:13.850
anything on the television, you know. But when your neighbor comes and if they're pretty well

299
00:29:13.850 --> 00:29:22.590
versed in who that person is, what their programs are and so forth, then you get a better feel for

300
00:29:22.590 --> 00:29:29.630
it. Now, in our community, we're not organized. In the other communities in the city, they're still

301
00:29:30.780 --> 00:29:38.220
bases of organization. We've allowed that to happen and we've allowed the media to come in and be

302
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:46.640
the spokesperson for us because they said that politics was dirty and that everybody in politics

303
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:51.660
was wrong. And we believe that. And that's just not the way it is.