WEBVTT

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Okay.

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Do I need to read it?

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Jose, interview number two, scene one, take one.

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Roll one.

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Roll one.

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Okay, have a seat.

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Okay, can you talk about that?

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Oh, about art being political, right.

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Okay, the reason I say that art is political because everything that is painted has got

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to do with the environment, politics, or what's happening in the community.

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So like in the case of the Cicepuede mural, it was at the time when the farm workers were

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going through the strikes.

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They were having trouble with pesticides.

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The children were being treated for eating stuff that was contaminated with chemicals.

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So at that time, the organization was boycotting lettuce.

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They probably still are now, but at that time especially, they were boycotting lettuce and

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grapes.

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And that was the time when the government, despite the boycott, they were buying grapes,

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you know.

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In other words, trying to break the thing about the boycott.

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So when we were going to do the mural there, it was done in a couple of weeks, you know.

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It happened that some of the farm workers were in town for a meeting.

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So they said, if you're going to paint something, why don't you paint something to support our

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because we're going to be in the neighborhood, you know, pressing out leaflets, and it will

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help as part of a campaign or, you know, for propaganda purposes.

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So that was the case of that mural.

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It came about because the time the things were happening and also the farm workers were

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in the area organizing people to boycott the products, you know, from the grapevines from

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California.

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Okay, good.

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We'll be ready to hit the broadcast news.

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Okay.

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Wait until I kill you.

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Okay.

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Jose, two, scene one, take one, take two, roll one.

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All art is...

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Yeah, go ahead and let...

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Actually say it to Susan.

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Yeah, you can tell me.

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When Susan tells you, okay.

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All right, anytime.

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All art is political.

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It's beginning from even the Renaissance because when De Vinci was doing the 16th Chapel,

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whatever he was painting, art to support the pope.

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When the French painter, Chardon, whatever his name was, was doing art, even though it

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seemed like it wasn't political, you know, he would paint bread, food, it was in the

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middle of the French Revolution that he did that, you know, and there was people who were

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fighting, you know, for crumbs, you know, so when he painted bread and crumbs and food,

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it was something that the people didn't have, you know, so even still life would be considered

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political.

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And even now, you know, even if they paint the ocean, it's political because what happened

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at this thing in Alaska, you know, the Exxon and oil companies are involved in it.

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And to say that painting the ocean is not political is not understanding what art really

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is, you know, because there is no such thing as art for art's sake in my book.

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Good, very good.

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A little higher.

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Okay, so.

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Okay, scene two, take two, roll one.

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Okay, any time.

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The mural at the Chicago Park District workers' room, as we call it, you know, or labor room,

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they call it, or the tool room, where we paint the mural, deals with the people working in

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the park.

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So it includes women, men, black and white.

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And of course, the reason it's important because a lot of the workers participate in doing

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it, well, not a lot of them, but at least six or seven, you know, and the rest of them

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participated in either criticizing it or supporting it, you know, some liked it, some didn't,

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you know.

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Some said that there should be more women, and some said that in the first place they

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didn't have enough women working there.

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In reality, they don't, you know, in landscaping, you know.

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And we did it during the wintertime, you know, during dinner time, in the afternoons, or

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whenever it was snowing hard, you know, we didn't have nothing else to do.

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Well, we had a lot to do, you know, but we took time to do it anyway.

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Okay, scene three, take one, roll one.

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Okay, whenever you're ready.

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The murals in this community call for different themes for the simple reason that, like in

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Chicago, there's different ethnic groups.

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If you're the one in the black community, it will call for something different, let's

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say in a Polish community, you know.

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You know, there are people who are working or members of the working class, that doesn't

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mean that their backgrounds are the same, you know.

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So it calls for different things and perhaps different colors.

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For instance, there was one done at McDonald's on Valmont and Poleski, which dealt with the

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Polish culture, and it has a lot of costumes that the Polish people wear, talks about Polish

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struggles.

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In the Mexican neighborhood, there's different things, such as the struggle with the farm

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workers, the demonstrations against the immigration.

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So of course it calls for a different theme, like the mural, it was dealing with the farm

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workers and the community.

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And in case of the one on 28th and Ridgeway, which is called We Will Stop the Storm, it

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deals with the community, but in the community itself, there's different ethnic backgrounds.

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There's black, there's a few Polish, and then there's a few Arabs, you know, which you don't

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have in some areas, but there you have them.

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So in talking with the people there, you know, the Arabs have a lot to say, you know, especially

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what was going on in the Middle East.

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And the Mexicans have a lot to say, what was going on with the immigration.

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And then of course the Polish have a lot to say because they claim that at one time it

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was an old white neighborhood and that now it changed, you know.

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So of course the theme there would completely be something to work with in that community.

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So in doing that, we tell them, you know, We Will Stop the Storm.

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And what storm we're talking about is the storm that they mentioned, you know, like the storm

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in the Middle East where they're being brutalized by the Zionists, the storm here in Chicago

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where they're being brutalized by the immigration, or we have some quotes there by people like

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Bapa Vakan who had to leave the country because his life was in danger, and his life was in

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danger because he's a revolutionary.

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So of course the theme completely has got to change.

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It can't be the same in all the neighborhoods.

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So it shows a dove that looks like a thunderbird and also might look like an eagle.

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But in the background there's a storm that the people have talked about.

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And instead of going about doing a lot of figures, you know, doing a lot of pyramids

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or doing a lot of either Egyptian or Mexican pyramids, we use symbols, you know.

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So what we use was the storm as the problem that they were having, which would include

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all the people, you know.

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We didn't have to put pictures of the immigration, pictures of the Zionists being up on the air

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with people, or the immigration brutalizing the newly arrived.

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So we use the storm as a symbol for all those things that are happening.

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And also we showed a picture of a boy and a girl, one on each side.

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One of them being that the girl is stepping on a swastika, you know, which still symbolizes racism.

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And in some of the neighborhoods that we go to now, there are swastikas that are pretty well left alone,

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meaning that maybe there's a lot of people who are sympathetic to the way some people think, you know,

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especially like the right wing, because they don't want blacks moving in.

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So the theme was we will stop the storm.

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And the storm was the problem that these people were having, you know,

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and the problems that minorities and other people who don't adhere to the system have, you know.

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That was really good.

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Very good.

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Okay, now I am.

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Go ahead.

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But when you put it in, it should already be open.

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Yeah, okay.

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Now let me roll.

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Okay.

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Okay, scene four, take one, roll two.

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Okay, whenever you're ready.

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Okay, we were working at this factory, National Video, doing TV tubes, you know.

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Like at that time, that was about the only factory doing TV tubes.

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But we wanted to get another union in there.

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So in order to get another union there, we had to do organizing, you know, get other people.

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So we had this group called PGR.

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We took it from the song of who was singing it, called People Get Ready.

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Okay, so we called it PGR, and the paper was called People Get Ready.

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So basically it was mostly in writing, like an informative letter, you know, no illustrations.

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So I started doing the illustrations for the People Get Ready pamphlet.

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It was actually a pamphlet.

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And we would discuss cartoons and this and that, and different things happening.

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And we would mostly discuss what was going on in the factory and how the organizing was going along.

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So it was during that time that I met this other Chicago artist who was already doing a lot of artwork, you know.

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And he was a very famous artist, I would say, whose name is John Weber.

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And from then on, we went to Indiana.

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I think it was Gary, Indiana, where they had a meeting dealing with miners, you know,

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that had gone on strike in one of the mines, I forgot where.

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And they were discussing the situation there.

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And we were discussing the situation in the city.

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So eventually, by discussing with the miners, and which were mostly from that particular area in the south,

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I forgot which part of the south it was, John and me were discussing this thing with the people there.

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It happened that John had got some space to do a mural.

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So he asked me if I would be interested in learning the technique.

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So I agreed to work with him.

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So we went in there, and that's when we started doing the mural.

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It took close to a year to do it because we would work and then do other stuff on the outside.

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He had other stuff to do.

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And plus, I was working, so I had to do it whenever I had time, you know, Saturdays, Sundays, or in the afternoons.

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As it turned out, it turned out to be pretty good because we could make changes in the mural.

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And we were at liberty to express ourselves more politically because the people who ran the United Electrical Workers

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had been involved in class struggles many years ago in the 30s, during the McCarthy era.

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A lot of them had gotten in trouble, you know.

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And a lot of them were still around.

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And of course, you know, we discussed things with them.

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And they agreed on certain things.

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They said, let's go to the factory and do sketches of the workers as they're working, which John did.

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I couldn't go that day, but John did some sketches.

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But then he brought them back, and then we put some sketches on the wall.

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I had some sketches that I had done, sort of most of the sketches about the Klan, the reactionary forces.

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And at that time, it included also the thing that happened in Chile, because the mural was painted in 73, around 73.

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So we included different things dealing with the situation in Chile.

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But also, the stronger points were made about the workers, you know.

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And artists who paint are not necessarily, you know, from the elite.

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They come also from the working class, but not just the working class, the advanced working class,

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because we can't be all together because there are workers who are backward, you know.

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Or they might have different kinds of politics.

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So I would say there's a group of workers that even though they work, they're advanced and know about politics.

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They know about art. They know about the situations that surround them, you know.

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So me and many other painters who come from the working class do this work.

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We want to do it well, and we learn from other people, you know, from the Mexican masters, the Queiros and the rest of them,

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from the artists that are here, too, you know.

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They come from Mexico, they come from Europe, or other artists who are doing mural work, and all of them are doing political work.

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None of the murals are just painted for the hell of it, you know.

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All of them have to deal with specific situations.

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And like we have said before, maybe some, according to the 21st century, you know, people, other people will learn from us too,

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and they say, well, at least they contributed not only to the art community, but to the working class, you know, to the working class movement.

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Because working people don't just work, go to the fair, and come back, you know, they do a lot of things.

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They read politics, they discuss politics, you know.

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In my case, I discuss politics and also do art.

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Go ahead.

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That was very good.

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That was really tight.

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Okay.

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We could, let me just do something here quick.

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I'm a little tighter, so let me just move this up a tiny bit.

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Does that mean Susan, do I have to adjust?

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Maybe you have to adjust just a tiny bit down, Susan.

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Okay, down?

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Yeah.

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Well, just wait and see if the needle, where the needle is.

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Okay.

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I tried that double thing.

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It's really just kind of...

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It is, it is.

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That's how you, yeah, we're almost there.

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Okay, scene five, take one, roll two.

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Like Carlos Cortez, Ray Vasquez, and me and the other artists, and myself, we tend to say that we're mostly cultural workers, you know,

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because artists seem to have an aloof look to some people, you know.

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They say, you're an artist, you must have a big studio, you must live in a fancy place, you know,

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or you must have some special talent, you know, which we don't see it as that.

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We don't see it as a special talent or whatever, you know.

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We see it as something we're doing not only to educate ourselves, but to educate also the community.

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Like when we're painting, we're artists.

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People see us, they say, that's the artist, or that's a muralist, or like the kids in the neighborhood, some people say, that's a mural man.

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But in that situation, they say mural because we're close to the mural, we're doing artwork.

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But if I'm at work, a lot of people don't see me, you know, as an artist, they see me as somebody doing a job, you know.

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So if we have to do a clean-up job, then I'm going to say, where's the artist, or where's the mural man,

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they say, where's the garbage man, so over there I'm known as a garbage man.

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And if I'm close to a wall painting, I'm known as the mural man or an artist.

227
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:17.900
Depends on what kind of brush I got. If I got a brush in my hand painting, I'm an artist,

228
00:18:18.280 --> 00:18:24.100
but if I'm picking up brushes we just cut, you know, from the bushes, then I'm a garbage man, there you go.

229
00:18:25.700 --> 00:18:31.500
But basically, we are people who, we are cultural workers.

230
00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:36.860
I mean, I would prefer that, as other artists prefer it.

231
00:18:36.860 --> 00:18:41.340
But there's nothing wrong with people who want to be called artists, or whatever, you know.

232
00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:49.940
It's all right with me, just that I myself am more comfortable being a cultural worker, like Cortez, or like Marco Ray,

233
00:18:49.940 --> 00:18:52.960
or like many, many other artists.

234
00:19:06.280 --> 00:19:08.960
Okay, scene six, take one, roll two.

235
00:19:12.460 --> 00:19:17.260
Okay, mural painting has been around for many years.

236
00:19:19.300 --> 00:19:24.420
When the cavemen were doing it, then later on people would say that these people were backwards,

237
00:19:24.580 --> 00:19:26.980
that they were dumb, that they were like animals, and this and that.

238
00:19:27.800 --> 00:19:32.780
And just recently, they've been saying that they weren't as dumb as they think, you know,

239
00:19:32.780 --> 00:19:37.680
because they were using shading, and they were using different techniques.

240
00:19:40.340 --> 00:19:43.000
Some do better work than some of the artists I know.

241
00:19:44.140 --> 00:19:51.620
Anyway, I believe that this type of art, as they were doing it, they were doing it for a purpose.

242
00:19:51.760 --> 00:19:53.520
They weren't doing it just to decorate the walls.

243
00:19:55.060 --> 00:19:57.200
We are not doing it just to decorate the walls.

244
00:19:58.340 --> 00:20:03.020
So I figure that along the way, you know, even into the 21st century,

245
00:20:04.320 --> 00:20:10.660
even if the murals do deteriorate to some extent, they will say, well, these people that were doing it,

246
00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:13.120
just like they were saying about the cavemen, weren't dumb.

247
00:20:13.120 --> 00:20:18.380
They knew what was going on, and they took politics, and then they formed their own ideas.

248
00:20:19.280 --> 00:20:24.000
And then, even though they're not here, the mural serves as something that was hurled at them,

249
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:30.640
so they could see it and try to figure out and try to understand the situations that were happening then.

250
00:20:31.940 --> 00:20:37.220
And they will say, well, these people really meant business.

251
00:20:37.460 --> 00:20:41.280
They weren't just decorators. They were involved in politics.

252
00:20:41.760 --> 00:20:47.240
They were concerned with what was going on around them, you know, what was going on in Central America.

253
00:20:47.800 --> 00:20:54.160
Hopefully, by that time in the future, when people are looking at it, things will be different,

254
00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:59.120
that the people in Central America won't have the death squads,

255
00:20:59.620 --> 00:21:04.320
or they won't have, you know, companies like the United Fruit Company,

256
00:21:06.660 --> 00:21:12.080
or foreign investors dictating the way they should live, you know.

257
00:21:12.080 --> 00:21:16.960
And we hope that when they look at our murals, that people have documented,

258
00:21:17.300 --> 00:21:19.740
they will say, well, these people had the right idea, you know.

259
00:21:19.940 --> 00:21:25.280
We should continue to record this prosperity or whatever they have.

260
00:21:25.700 --> 00:21:33.000
Then they will continue to do murals, public art, in other words,

261
00:21:33.340 --> 00:21:36.940
so that many people can always see it, always see it, you know.

262
00:21:36.940 --> 00:21:43.120
Just as people know about the caves, they will know about our murals in the 20th century.

263
00:21:46.020 --> 00:21:50.000
What are the best memories of the U.S., the first time you came to the U.S., and what you thought?

264
00:21:54.200 --> 00:22:02.880
It's just big. Big cars, big people, big houses.

265
00:22:05.240 --> 00:22:08.860
And how does that contrast with what you remember from Thailand?

266
00:22:11.140 --> 00:22:16.980
Well, I guess the main contrast would be that I remember Thailand as always being very crowded and very hot.

267
00:22:19.360 --> 00:22:24.220
So there's just so much open space here, even though people might not think so.

268
00:22:25.780 --> 00:22:29.740
A lot of green, too, because since I lived in the city in Thailand,

269
00:22:29.740 --> 00:22:38.000
it was just mainly concrete, very few trees and grass, except outside of the city.

270
00:22:39.580 --> 00:22:42.960
So, yeah, just seeing a lot of green around.

271
00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:51.700
What, when you were a teenager in Thailand, how did teenagers spend their time?

272
00:22:53.760 --> 00:22:57.160
And how did children, well, teenagers, what did teenagers do?

273
00:22:59.220 --> 00:23:05.060
Not much. Sometimes they'll just go out to a movie or go bowling, perhaps.

274
00:23:07.820 --> 00:23:09.400
They might get together with friends.

275
00:23:14.040 --> 00:23:16.900
There really wasn't much that I remember doing.

276
00:23:17.560 --> 00:23:21.100
Would boys and girls do activities together?

277
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:22.260
Yeah.

278
00:23:23.820 --> 00:23:27.340
Although I guess Thai girls are more shy in that way.

279
00:23:27.780 --> 00:23:35.360
You know, you'll find girls together a lot, and boys together a lot.

280
00:23:35.600 --> 00:23:41.380
And when they get into groups, they still tend to be with their own gender, their own sex.

281
00:23:42.300 --> 00:23:49.880
Were you ever told as a child, either implicitly or directly, about how you should behave as a girl?

282
00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:50.960
Oh, yes.

283
00:23:51.580 --> 00:23:52.980
How should a Thai girl behave?

284
00:23:53.380 --> 00:24:00.280
Very properly. Not wear anything revealing, for example, or tight.

285
00:24:02.020 --> 00:24:08.100
Be very ladylike in behavior. Not say any swear words.

286
00:24:10.360 --> 00:24:17.660
Never look at a man in the eye that he might interpret as being a come-on or something.

287
00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:21.800
Yeah. Just being very proper.

288
00:24:23.460 --> 00:24:25.580
What kind of clothes did Thai girls wear?

289
00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:32.180
They're pretty much pretty modern now. You'll find a lot of jeans around.

290
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:35.560
Skirts.

291
00:24:36.220 --> 00:24:39.980
Though mini skirts weren't really that popular when I was there.

292
00:24:40.340 --> 00:24:48.040
I mean, whereas it was popular everywhere else, some girls would still wear skirts down to their knees, for example.

293
00:24:48.040 --> 00:24:54.820
And only when you went to bars or something, then it was seen as being not ladylike.

294
00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:56.940
If you wore a mini skirt.

295
00:24:57.460 --> 00:24:58.760
Sort of risque or something.

296
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:06.260
What are Thai attitudes towards studying? What kind of attitudes did you grow up with about education?

297
00:25:07.580 --> 00:25:11.660
That you had to work hard. You always had to get the best grades you could.

298
00:25:13.080 --> 00:25:18.320
And back in those days, I know they still had what you call physical discipline.

299
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:23.780
They would hit your hand with a roller or something of the sort if you misbehaved.

300
00:25:24.260 --> 00:25:25.820
I don't know if they still do that now.

301
00:25:26.560 --> 00:25:29.520
Did you have both men and women as teachers?

302
00:25:30.740 --> 00:25:33.580
Yeah. Both men and women.

303
00:25:33.760 --> 00:25:35.380
And what kind of school did you go to?

304
00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:43.220
Well, I remember a kindergarten school, which was a co-ed school.

305
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:48.040
But I really had very vague memories of it.

306
00:25:49.560 --> 00:25:52.740
And then when I was a teenager, I went to an international school.

307
00:25:53.800 --> 00:25:56.060
So you went with children from all over the world?

308
00:25:57.260 --> 00:26:00.720
Well, there were mostly orientals. There were some Americans there.

309
00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:02.560
A few British people.

310
00:26:03.520 --> 00:26:06.840
What language was the language of instruction?

311
00:26:07.220 --> 00:26:07.680
English.

312
00:26:09.220 --> 00:26:12.620
Is it common for students to learn a language other than Thai?

313
00:26:13.660 --> 00:26:16.560
Usually they have a choice of English or French.

314
00:26:18.040 --> 00:26:19.540
Most people are going to take English.

315
00:26:20.900 --> 00:26:23.360
Do people get to be pretty good at speaking English?

316
00:26:24.120 --> 00:26:24.880
Not really.

317
00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:34.880
It's like here in high school when people learn Spanish and you really can't say much after four years of Spanish or French or whatever.

318
00:26:37.340 --> 00:26:45.480
They have very Thai accents. That's one thing about Thai is when they learn another language, it's very hard for them to get rid of their accent.

319
00:26:45.580 --> 00:26:51.060
You know right away if you're talking to somebody that this person is Thai because of the accent they have.

320
00:26:52.320 --> 00:26:56.060
Most of them never really get rid of it no matter how long they live in the country.

321
00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:00.660
What are some of the ethnic minorities in Thailand?

322
00:27:02.280 --> 00:27:04.000
Indians, a lot of Indians.

323
00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:08.380
Chinese, or Thais are descended from Chinese.

324
00:27:10.600 --> 00:27:17.320
There are still a lot of very Chinese families who are mostly merchants.

325
00:27:18.500 --> 00:27:22.320
But they stick pretty much to the old ways of China.

326
00:27:23.740 --> 00:27:32.600
And then the Indians are also usually merchants, jewelers, or they sell clothes or things like that.

327
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:44.600
What kind of attitudes do people in Thailand have about, especially about Indians or about the Chinese?

328
00:27:44.600 --> 00:27:46.600
They tend to look down on them.

329
00:27:49.500 --> 00:27:57.140
If for example a real Thai family, a family considered itself to be really Thai and work with good background,

330
00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:05.600
they wouldn't want their children to marry somebody from a Chinese background for example or an Indian background.

331
00:28:05.600 --> 00:28:09.240
And how does a family consider themselves to be really Thai?

332
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:13.640
How are you, how is that determined if most Thais are Chinese?

333
00:28:15.260 --> 00:28:23.600
Well if they've been in Thailand long enough and they have good positions, say upper middle class or upper class,

334
00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:26.800
they consider themselves to be Thai.

335
00:28:27.560 --> 00:28:28.680
Are most Thais Buddhist?

336
00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:29.520
Yes.

337
00:28:29.520 --> 00:28:35.260
And how does, do most people practice Buddhism?

338
00:28:36.120 --> 00:28:37.360
I would say so.

339
00:28:39.360 --> 00:28:41.400
Religion is really strong in the country.

340
00:28:43.020 --> 00:28:51.580
Most Thais I know, though there might be some changes nowadays, but most Thais would pray, go to temple and so on.

341
00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:55.340
How does Buddhism shape people's values?

342
00:28:58.660 --> 00:29:03.600
I don't know that it shapes them that much. They preach it a lot.

343
00:29:04.460 --> 00:29:12.680
For example this ethic about you should kill anything or anyone, any animal that is.

344
00:29:14.700 --> 00:29:17.940
But people kill each other all the time. There's a lot of crime in Thailand.

345
00:29:20.260 --> 00:29:25.720
And I guess maybe in the way we live they have a little bit of a fecundistic attitude.

346
00:29:31.780 --> 00:29:36.940
Just that kind of philosophical attitude about whatever happens will happen.

347
00:29:38.800 --> 00:29:41.940
Although there are exceptions with the modern world and all that.

348
00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:49.600
How do people choose careers? Do people continue?

349
00:29:49.620 --> 00:29:56.360
For example, if the parents, the father is a mechanic, do the children or the sons become mechanics?

350
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:00.900
Or if the parents have gone to college, do they assume that the children will go to college?

351
00:30:02.300 --> 00:30:06.340
Not necessarily, although it might happen that way.

352
00:30:07.740 --> 00:30:12.840
What you will find a lot of is that the parents might not have gone to college, but then the kids might.

353
00:30:13.800 --> 00:30:18.240
Or on the other hand, they might just go into the father's business, whatever his business is.

354
00:30:19.020 --> 00:30:23.540
It depends how they see it themselves, if it's easier to just do what the father's doing.

355
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:27.340
How's the family structure? Can you describe that?

356
00:30:28.460 --> 00:30:29.040
What do you mean by that?

357
00:30:29.040 --> 00:30:36.940
In general, for example in this country, we live in nuclear families.

358
00:30:37.760 --> 00:30:41.660
And then families tend to, the children live apart from the parents.

359
00:30:42.840 --> 00:30:44.320
And people tend to live separately.

360
00:30:46.020 --> 00:30:48.200
No, it's an extended family.

361
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:52.700
A lot of times the grandparents will live with the children.

362
00:30:53.920 --> 00:31:06.960
And for example, what usually happens is that when a child gets married, they will move into the wife's home and live with the parents and grandparents.

363
00:31:07.580 --> 00:31:09.820
So the husband will move to the wife's home?

364
00:31:10.360 --> 00:31:13.560
It could be the other way around also, but a lot of times that's the way it is.

365
00:31:13.840 --> 00:31:15.280
So they don't move out by themselves?

366
00:31:16.560 --> 00:31:18.900
If they can afford to, they will.

367
00:31:22.260 --> 00:31:30.540
But normally, for example, I'm just thinking of parents who might have some sort of business, a clothing business or a jewelry business and all that.

368
00:31:31.320 --> 00:31:38.280
And the new son-in-law will probably go into his wife's family's business. Can you help out there?

369
00:31:39.160 --> 00:31:43.900
Hmm. I wanted to ask about that.

370
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:57.300
Well, how is wealth distributed in the country? Is there a big middle class or are there...?

371
00:31:57.300 --> 00:32:00.900
There's a big middle class, a pretty big lower class.

372
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:15.800
There's an upper class, but they're not too obvious because when you go into any part of Thailand, you'll see a lot of poverty.

373
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:19.200
You'll see some mansions too, for example.

374
00:32:21.220 --> 00:32:25.320
I guess the impression would be that it's a pretty poor country, which it is.

375
00:32:25.320 --> 00:32:30.320
And when people migrate, what kinds of things do you think make people migrate?

376
00:32:31.040 --> 00:32:35.520
For example, the Thais who come to the U.S., how do they get here and why?

377
00:32:36.620 --> 00:32:39.720
Well, usually because they think they can earn a better living here.

378
00:32:40.540 --> 00:32:43.720
I know a lot of doctors come here, doctors and nurses.

379
00:32:47.580 --> 00:32:57.660
And they just probably think they can earn more money here and then some of them might move back to Thailand once they think they've made enough money.

380
00:32:58.580 --> 00:33:05.440
There are a lot of students who come and think they can get a better education here and so they'll probably get a better job back in Thailand.

381
00:33:07.380 --> 00:33:21.480
Let's try to have a friend who came here, who's Thai, who just assumes that he'll stay here and work for a while and make a sort of lump of money and then go back and build a house and start a business with that money.

382
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:24.480
Yeah, a lot of people tend to do that.

383
00:33:24.980 --> 00:33:32.580
Some people who come here with small children or who have children while they're here might think twice about going back to Thailand

384
00:33:33.300 --> 00:33:38.520
because they think their children are now very Americanized and all that and might not be happy in Thailand.

385
00:33:39.220 --> 00:33:44.500
I know a lot of people who do eventually go back because they miss it. They have relatives back there and friends.

386
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:49.200
What happens when people do move here and their children grow up here?

387
00:33:50.580 --> 00:33:55.660
How are the children different than traditional Thai children would be?

388
00:33:55.660 --> 00:34:10.480
Well, they're very American. I don't think they feel so strongly, so Thai, even though their parents might keep up their traditions.

389
00:34:13.540 --> 00:34:19.980
They probably would just settle down here or grow up in Meri and die here.

390
00:34:21.220 --> 00:34:29.680
If you say you're in Thailand, you're maybe going to go back next summer and visit, and someone comes up to you and says,

391
00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:33.260
well, I know that you're living in the United States and I'm thinking about going there.

392
00:34:33.540 --> 00:34:43.140
What kind of advice would you give to someone planning to come here to kind of help them with culture shock or prepare them for what they'll find here?

393
00:34:44.380 --> 00:34:50.920
What kind of advice? Well, I guess just to be open-minded because things are very different here.

394
00:34:54.780 --> 00:34:59.140
I don't know. Well, it's more of, there's more isolation here.

395
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:06.380
People might not be as friendly as compared to Thailand and they'll be among strangers.

396
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:10.220
So just keep it to yourselves for that, I guess.

397
00:35:11.300 --> 00:35:14.500
That was actually exactly the crisis that this friend of mine was having.

398
00:35:14.680 --> 00:35:23.460
He'd been here about six months by now. He felt really isolated, even though he was sort of living with his wife and other Thai people.

399
00:35:26.900 --> 00:35:38.800
How do you, living in the U.S. now and sort of being a more world citizen than a Thai or U.S. citizen,

400
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:49.380
do you ever feel like you have any need to sort of be very Thai or to celebrate Thai holidays or do things like that?

401
00:35:49.380 --> 00:35:54.140
Well, no. I'm not really religious.

402
00:35:56.580 --> 00:36:01.660
So, even though some people, I've known people who have tried to get me to go to the temple, for example,

403
00:36:02.300 --> 00:36:10.360
and I don't really go unless I'm forced to in a way, but the kind of upbringing I've had,

404
00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:19.340
you know, with my parents being very traditionally Thai, there are a lot of things that still are in the back of my mind.

405
00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:28.020
For example, this own religious tradition of not pointing, of not having people point their feet at you,

406
00:36:28.520 --> 00:36:34.840
or, you know, when people raise their legs, put them on the table, and then it just so happens that their feet are pointing at you.

407
00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:42.840
Sometimes I still get a kind of shock about that, and I think, well, this is America and they don't think about it,

408
00:36:43.740 --> 00:36:47.580
so I try to forget about it. There's all sorts of things like that.

409
00:36:47.780 --> 00:36:54.840
And then another thing is when you have to show respect to your elders, and for example, in Thailand,

410
00:36:55.020 --> 00:36:59.280
if you're passing in front of somebody who's older than you, you would normally bend your head,

411
00:36:59.660 --> 00:37:03.140
so that your head will be at the same level or lower than the older person's.

412
00:37:03.140 --> 00:37:09.940
And sometimes I find myself doing that, even though I don't have to. It's just something that's ingrained in me.

413
00:37:10.100 --> 00:37:16.180
It's just automatic. What is the belief about your feet pointing at you? Is it disrespectful?

414
00:37:16.180 --> 00:37:20.600
It comes from the religious belief that the head is the most important part of the body,

415
00:37:21.620 --> 00:37:32.820
so that if something is being pointed at you, then it shows disrespect, a complete disregard of you as another Buddhist person.

416
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:43.200
And why is it that you said you can't look boys in the face, or the girls aren't supposed to look?

417
00:37:43.340 --> 00:37:44.800
In the eyes?

418
00:37:45.240 --> 00:37:52.340
Well, I mean they can, but not in any way that would be considered sexual.

419
00:37:54.020 --> 00:37:57.440
So that's not staring at them too long or something like that.

420
00:37:57.620 --> 00:38:02.940
Is that from the religion pretty much? Is that more from just kind of...

421
00:38:03.140 --> 00:38:05.740
What are the ideas of good behavior? I guess they're linked.

422
00:38:06.380 --> 00:38:14.920
I guess ideas of good behavior, although in the Buddhist religion, as in many other religions, the woman is supposed to be looked on as simple.

423
00:38:16.280 --> 00:38:17.600
Just from the beginning?

424
00:38:18.640 --> 00:38:29.240
Pretty much, because the story is that when Gotama Buddha was under this tree and trying to, well, becoming enlightened, so to speak,

425
00:38:29.240 --> 00:38:38.720
and what we call the equivalent of the devil brought some scantily clad women down to try to tempt him away from becoming enlightened.

426
00:38:39.720 --> 00:38:42.080
So women are also seen in that sense.

427
00:38:43.220 --> 00:38:44.000
As temptation.

428
00:38:44.200 --> 00:38:45.620
As temptation, yeah.

429
00:38:46.500 --> 00:38:48.120
Women get a bad rap in their culture.

430
00:38:48.780 --> 00:38:50.500
Yes, they do, in most cultures.

431
00:38:50.660 --> 00:38:52.600
Mm-hmm.

432
00:38:53.080 --> 00:38:54.560
Hmm, pods for a second.

433
00:38:56.240 --> 00:39:01.560
What do you think is the...if you have to sort of divide your opinions about Thailand into...

434
00:39:02.300 --> 00:39:09.600
Like, what do you think is a really wonderful thing about Thai culture, and what do you think for you is really a problem in Thai culture? What would you say?

435
00:39:10.680 --> 00:39:17.600
Okay, I think the good thing about Thai culture, and this applies to Hispanic culture too, is that the family is a very strong unit.

436
00:39:17.600 --> 00:39:25.320
And you respect your elders, and they're always there for you.

437
00:39:26.260 --> 00:39:28.280
It's just a very strong sense of family.

438
00:39:30.580 --> 00:39:40.800
And the bad thing, I guess, would be that a lot of Thais I know are very narrow-minded, and they gossip a lot.

439
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:43.200
It's a close-minded society.

440
00:39:43.700 --> 00:40:02.120
So that if, say, a woman is seeing another man instead of her husband, having an affair on the side, there's this grapevine that would be like, perhaps, what you would call here, office gossip, the way rumors spread.

441
00:40:02.640 --> 00:40:05.900
But in this case, it would be pretty much all over the city.

442
00:40:08.180 --> 00:40:14.880
If, at least if you're middle class or upper, people know you, know who you are.

443
00:40:15.740 --> 00:40:18.820
And they will just really criticize you.

444
00:40:19.260 --> 00:40:22.180
So you constantly have to watch out.

445
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:29.380
So there's not too much of...I mean, here there's a sense that the individual has a lot of autonomy.

446
00:40:29.380 --> 00:40:34.540
And as long as you're an individual, you can sort of have a right to privacy.

447
00:40:35.220 --> 00:40:38.840
And so Thais don't really feel that you have a right to privacy so much, or is that...?

448
00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:40.780
I don't think they even think of it in that way.

449
00:40:42.080 --> 00:40:45.280
They just like to criticize.

450
00:40:47.740 --> 00:40:57.620
And what about, compared with the Thai educational system, if a child were to come here after going to school in Thailand,

451
00:40:58.500 --> 00:41:04.080
what would be some sort of immediate differences that they would run into in an American classroom?

452
00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:07.780
It might be difficult for them to understand.

453
00:41:09.580 --> 00:41:12.720
It's probably more relaxed here, in a way.

454
00:41:14.120 --> 00:41:19.620
Because in the Thai culture, and it's kind of similar to Japanese culture also, there's a lot of respect for the teacher.

455
00:41:23.450 --> 00:41:34.250
You wouldn't do a lot of things that you would do here, like speak out of turn, or stare the teacher down, or talk back to the teacher.

456
00:41:38.550 --> 00:41:40.230
So I guess in that sense.

457
00:41:41.350 --> 00:41:47.550
Is it difficult for Thai students to speak out in class and even answer questions?

458
00:41:49.030 --> 00:41:50.510
They'll answer questions.

459
00:41:51.730 --> 00:41:57.190
But they know they'll get into trouble if they can't answer a question, if they haven't done their homework, for example.

460
00:41:59.370 --> 00:42:03.290
There's quite a big thing about discipline in the school.

461
00:42:06.890 --> 00:42:13.870
How is it? A lot of Thai learning, is it sort of wrote from the textbook, or are Thais encouraged to kind of think on their own,

462
00:42:14.370 --> 00:42:16.870
and take a problem and figure out ways of solving it?

463
00:42:18.730 --> 00:42:21.750
I guess the thinking on their own comes at the university level.

464
00:42:22.530 --> 00:42:25.770
Otherwise in elementary and high school there's a lot of road learning.

465
00:42:28.690 --> 00:42:35.670
And what would you, living in the US, what would you say, just from what you observed here,

466
00:42:35.730 --> 00:42:40.090
what are the things you like best about this culture, and what are the things you like least?

467
00:42:40.870 --> 00:42:41.530
This culture?

468
00:42:42.050 --> 00:42:42.490
Yeah.

469
00:42:44.050 --> 00:42:48.730
I like the fact that, as you said before, there's a lot of autonomy in this culture.

470
00:42:50.070 --> 00:43:00.530
That you can pretty much do what you want, and that if you really want to you can always find work, or find some way to support yourself.

471
00:43:03.790 --> 00:43:11.850
And the thing I like least is this isolationism, that because you are allowed to do, to be by yourself,

472
00:43:12.450 --> 00:43:15.810
you don't have that much of a support system like you would in Thailand.

473
00:43:18.250 --> 00:43:22.090
How is the social life different between here and Thailand?

474
00:43:24.530 --> 00:43:30.390
Social life? Well in Thailand you're not really allowed to date until you're a certain age.

475
00:43:31.330 --> 00:43:41.670
You can go out in groups if you're a teenager, but I guess until you go into the university you don't really date anyone in particular.

476
00:43:47.150 --> 00:43:50.010
It's pretty formal as far as I remember.

477
00:43:50.010 --> 00:43:59.330
If you want to go out with somebody seriously, then there's all this ritual of meeting the parents,

478
00:44:00.390 --> 00:44:08.070
and making sure the parents like you, for example, and getting to know the other person's background,

479
00:44:09.630 --> 00:44:16.410
and seeing if they're compatible, because there's still arranged marriages in Thailand, not so much anymore, but there's still some.

480
00:44:16.410 --> 00:44:22.270
Those are like Hispanic culture too, the parents are really important in living there.

481
00:44:30.070 --> 00:44:39.630
Actually there's some progressive points about social life now, because I read recently that there's a club for example for women,

482
00:44:40.170 --> 00:44:48.210
an exclusive club where women go to be entertained by men who dance with them,

483
00:44:48.470 --> 00:44:53.670
who are the kind of escorts which they don't have here in the States as far as I know.

484
00:44:54.630 --> 00:45:00.130
And it's a fancy club, it's not like a strip joint or anything like that.

485
00:45:00.130 --> 00:45:10.430
Other than that, in general Thai society still frowns on any woman who behaves loosely so to speak.

486
00:45:10.470 --> 00:45:13.230
Would it be unusual for a woman to live on her own in Thailand?

487
00:45:16.730 --> 00:45:23.910
I think it's accepted now, it's not that common yet. I know some people who do, but it's not that common.

488
00:45:24.250 --> 00:45:27.090
That a woman would work and support herself and live on her own?

489
00:45:27.090 --> 00:45:34.470
Yeah, usually they just, whether they're men or women, they live with their families until they get married.

490
00:45:35.810 --> 00:45:39.650
And do people have important friendships outside their family?

491
00:45:40.410 --> 00:45:51.110
Friendships? Yeah, usually it's people that they've grown up with, gone to school with, maybe friendships from work.

492
00:45:51.110 --> 00:45:58.490
But again, the background is their families are considered.

493
00:46:00.750 --> 00:46:02.870
Kind of the center, oh the friends' background.

494
00:46:02.870 --> 00:46:03.410
I see.

495
00:46:16.950 --> 00:46:21.130
Do you know much about life in rural Thailand or not so much?

496
00:46:21.530 --> 00:46:22.730
Not so much.

497
00:46:23.470 --> 00:46:25.790
Can you describe your family just sort of quickly?

498
00:46:27.390 --> 00:46:34.290
I think your mother was from a noble family from the north and your father was more of a merchant.

499
00:46:34.470 --> 00:46:36.370
Were either of your parents Chinese?

500
00:46:38.010 --> 00:46:38.950
My father was.

501
00:46:40.630 --> 00:46:41.810
Does he speak Chinese?

502
00:46:42.270 --> 00:46:44.230
He speaks some Chinese.

503
00:46:45.310 --> 00:46:47.790
A lot of Chinese Thais that I've met speak Chinese, speak Cantonese.

504
00:46:51.450 --> 00:46:53.130
I never learned.

505
00:47:00.590 --> 00:47:06.550
I don't know, my grandmother, when she was alive, my paternal grandmother, she spoke some Chinese.

506
00:47:07.010 --> 00:47:12.290
Sometimes she would speak Chinese to my father, but I never really knew what they were talking about.

507
00:47:12.930 --> 00:47:14.750
Are there different dialects of Thai?

508
00:47:14.750 --> 00:47:17.330
Any differences in Thai?

509
00:47:18.190 --> 00:47:19.010
Slight differences.

510
00:47:21.130 --> 00:47:22.890
So not that much.

511
00:47:23.110 --> 00:47:25.810
Can you tell what part of the country someone is from by accent?

512
00:47:26.990 --> 00:47:28.510
Accent and some vocabulary.

513
00:47:30.650 --> 00:47:35.370
And what can you describe as your average diet? What do you eat in a day?

514
00:47:37.850 --> 00:47:39.050
Rice, mainly.

515
00:47:40.050 --> 00:47:49.950
A lot of Thais, sometimes now the more modern ones, eat bread and milk for breakfast.

516
00:47:50.590 --> 00:48:00.250
But most Thais I think still eat a kind of rice soup with some kind of meat in the mornings and maybe also at lunch.

517
00:48:01.310 --> 00:48:02.670
And otherwise there are noodles.

518
00:48:03.310 --> 00:48:08.490
But a dinner would be rice with lots of other dishes.

519
00:48:08.810 --> 00:48:14.310
One vegetable dish, one meat dish, one kind of soup dish.

520
00:48:15.650 --> 00:48:17.970
That's about it, meat, vegetables and soup.

521
00:48:19.530 --> 00:48:20.490
And then dessert.

522
00:48:21.730 --> 00:48:23.810
Usually sweet, Thais have a sweet tooth.

523
00:48:24.970 --> 00:48:31.670
I was thinking about that actually, I thought that maybe it's, when we were eating brownies I was thinking of all those like real sweet like coconut desserts.

524
00:48:32.990 --> 00:48:34.510
That's why she likes chocolate.

525
00:48:37.870 --> 00:48:41.830
Oh, so almost every meal has rice in it.

526
00:48:45.630 --> 00:48:48.610
Actually I don't know what we would ever do without rice.

527
00:48:50.230 --> 00:48:52.730
Since we don't really grow potatoes there.

528
00:48:59.570 --> 00:49:00.610
What about...

529
00:49:00.610 --> 00:49:04.310
Well, I think that's about it. Do you have anything you want to say about Thailand in general?

530
00:49:05.990 --> 00:49:07.990
Can you think of anything you'd...

531
00:49:07.990 --> 00:49:13.330
Well, the only impression that I still remember, and that's why I don't like to live there, is that it's so hot.

532
00:49:14.730 --> 00:49:21.550
In the north it's a little better because since it's up north it's in mountains it can get cool.

533
00:49:22.670 --> 00:49:25.730
But in Bangkok it's just hot all year round.

534
00:49:26.230 --> 00:49:28.650
And then of course when it rains there's a rainy season.

535
00:49:29.470 --> 00:49:37.470
And then there are floods also, so I think they're trying to do something about that.

536
00:49:38.330 --> 00:49:40.210
But otherwise it's just real hot.

537
00:49:40.590 --> 00:49:44.590
And most businesses and modern homes have air conditioning.

538
00:49:45.850 --> 00:49:46.750
And cars too.

539
00:49:47.930 --> 00:49:53.910
But otherwise if you have to walk on the street or you get onto a bus that's not air conditioned, then it can be really hot.

540
00:49:54.290 --> 00:49:56.390
It's like Chicago in the summer with all the humidity.

541
00:49:56.990 --> 00:49:59.030
So you prefer a cooler climate?

542
00:50:00.830 --> 00:50:00.830


543
00:50:02.370 --> 00:50:07.390
Not one where it's 90 degrees almost every day and 60 degree humidity.

544
00:50:10.010 --> 00:50:11.130
60 or 80 or whatever.

545
00:50:13.210 --> 00:50:15.190
How do people cope with the heat?

546
00:50:15.530 --> 00:50:17.770
I guess they're used to it.

547
00:50:19.190 --> 00:50:28.790
Most women try to stay out of the sun because having pale skin is considered to be good.

548
00:50:30.650 --> 00:50:35.790
So women don't like to get too tanned or try not to get themselves in the sun that much.

549
00:50:37.450 --> 00:50:39.430
They were used sort of umbrellas or anything?

550
00:50:39.550 --> 00:50:43.770
Oh yeah, umbrellas or parasols and things like that.

551
00:50:45.070 --> 00:50:47.090
Huh. Okay.

552
00:50:47.770 --> 00:50:50.890
How big are your classes? Do you remember how big your classes were?

553
00:50:52.410 --> 00:50:55.350
What I remember them about, probably 20, 25.

554
00:50:55.830 --> 00:50:56.890
So about like here?

555
00:50:57.110 --> 00:50:57.450
Yeah.

556
00:51:00.370 --> 00:51:11.310
And do children do things like play theater games or put on plays or like to act or do things like that?

557
00:51:11.310 --> 00:51:17.410
Yeah, there are some kinds of extracurricular things. Not that many, not as many as here.

558
00:51:17.870 --> 00:51:20.830
What's the national sport? It's that thing with the wicker ball, right?

559
00:51:21.190 --> 00:51:22.530
Oh, the golf, yeah.

560
00:51:22.770 --> 00:51:23.730
What's it called, the gra?

561
00:51:23.870 --> 00:51:32.050
The golf. It's kind of a version of soccer but not exactly. It requires more skill, I think.

562
00:51:33.790 --> 00:51:35.310
And then soccer is pretty popular.

563
00:51:35.570 --> 00:51:39.690
Do you see kids just on the street playing the gra or playing soccer?

564
00:51:40.470 --> 00:51:41.070
Yes.

565
00:51:41.830 --> 00:51:47.290
There was ping pong. That's pretty popular in that nation.

566
00:51:47.630 --> 00:51:48.930
Uh huh.

567
00:51:49.570 --> 00:51:54.690
That's about it. For most things, there are public swimming pools but some...

568
00:51:55.950 --> 00:51:57.010
People are going to be very happy.

569
00:52:00.050 --> 00:52:05.470
And then there are also few ice skating rinks but only people who can afford it go there.

570
00:52:06.930 --> 00:52:09.770
It's funny to think about it being 90 degrees and people ice skating.

571
00:52:10.770 --> 00:52:14.290
Oh, I guess that's why we do it. It's part of western culture.

572
00:52:14.930 --> 00:52:17.370
And are people pretty interested in western culture?

573
00:52:18.730 --> 00:52:20.470
Yeah, they like rock music and...

574
00:52:23.390 --> 00:52:26.390
She's getting kind of cranky now. She'll nip and move.

575
00:52:27.130 --> 00:52:28.350
Okay, I don't want to.

576
00:52:28.990 --> 00:52:31.910
She likes to be petted and then all of a sudden she'll get real cranky.

577
00:52:32.750 --> 00:52:33.270
Yeah.

578
00:52:34.590 --> 00:52:41.710
So do people... Do you think a lot of people have kind of fantasies about living in the west or taking on...

579
00:52:41.710 --> 00:52:48.710
Oh yeah, especially TV programs like Dallas and Falcon Crest and they think everybody here must have two cars and live in big houses and all that.

580
00:52:48.730 --> 00:52:49.370
Uh huh.

581
00:52:49.790 --> 00:52:51.270
So yeah, they have that image.

582
00:52:52.970 --> 00:52:54.910
But I think fine art has always been...

583
00:52:56.410 --> 00:53:01.130
It's sort of the old thing. The older generation doesn't like all this rock and roll and stuff.

584
00:53:01.950 --> 00:53:06.330
The younger generation do because... Just precisely because the older generation doesn't like it.

585
00:53:06.550 --> 00:53:07.490
Uh huh.

586
00:53:08.750 --> 00:53:16.610
And then when people migrate from Thailand, what places do they go to? I know that they come to the US, but is there anywhere else they go?

587
00:53:17.930 --> 00:53:24.510
Um, some will go to Europe. I think there are a lot of Thais in the world. Great Britain, for example.

588
00:53:27.270 --> 00:53:28.870
And maybe Japan.

589
00:53:28.870 --> 00:53:34.590
Do any Thais go... Well, you wouldn't really go to Hong Kong or anywhere like that, right?

590
00:53:35.150 --> 00:53:42.810
Hong Kong is pretty popular for shopping sprees for the rich. Rich Thais.

591
00:53:43.390 --> 00:53:46.390
And they'll say, oh yeah, we went to Hong Kong to get this and that.

592
00:53:48.570 --> 00:53:53.490
And I guess the things over there are cheaper than what you would find here. Brand names.

593
00:53:54.830 --> 00:53:57.490
And what about the bordering countries?

594
00:53:58.630 --> 00:54:01.790
Like, wow, Burma is a bordering country, right?

595
00:54:02.430 --> 00:54:06.450
Yeah, but Burma is communist now. Well, socialist communist.

596
00:54:08.450 --> 00:54:15.590
Um, well since we're surrounded mainly by communist countries, there aren't that many Thais there, except maybe for business or government purposes.

597
00:54:16.450 --> 00:54:22.590
Um, there are some Thais in Malaysia because it's right next door, so to speak.

598
00:54:23.790 --> 00:54:28.650
But I don't think many Thais... Oh well, they're Singapore of course.

599
00:54:29.850 --> 00:54:32.590
Or do, for example, Laotians cross over into Thailand?

600
00:54:34.130 --> 00:54:37.510
Yeah, Laotian. So the borders are pretty...

601
00:54:38.190 --> 00:54:41.530
Okay. Wow. Oh yeah, what about...

602
00:54:41.530 --> 00:54:45.130
Oh, Australia too. A lot of Thais in Australia and New Zealand.

603
00:54:45.450 --> 00:54:49.990
That's interesting. I can't think of anything else.

604
00:54:51.130 --> 00:54:52.770
Thank you very much.