WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.180 --> 00:00:15.160 I'm going to get close to when they start coming last. 2 00:00:15.660 --> 00:00:17.960 Scene one, take four, roll three. 3 00:00:23.340 --> 00:00:25.940 How do the murals affect the feelings and opinions 4 00:00:25.940 --> 00:00:27.140 of people in the community? 5 00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:32.340 For one thing, a lot more anti-drug, you know, 6 00:00:32.940 --> 00:00:34.120 or anti-gang, whatever. 7 00:00:35.040 --> 00:00:38.880 So a lot of times, especially the young people, 8 00:00:39.860 --> 00:00:42.340 especially the ones that help, would say, well, 9 00:00:43.300 --> 00:00:45.820 this is a good way of doing things and a good way 10 00:00:45.820 --> 00:00:49.380 of thinking, you know, instead of using crack or heroin 11 00:00:49.380 --> 00:00:53.860 or whatever, the mural sort of invites them to think 12 00:00:53.860 --> 00:00:55.940 in a different sense, you know. 13 00:00:55.940 --> 00:01:02.740 That drugs are negative or that gangs are negative 14 00:01:02.740 --> 00:01:05.720 or whatever the issue is. 15 00:01:06.300 --> 00:01:09.260 If you could paint a mural anywhere you wanted 16 00:01:09.260 --> 00:01:13.460 on any subject, what would you paint and wear? 17 00:01:13.620 --> 00:01:14.340 What would I paint? 18 00:01:15.820 --> 00:01:20.520 Well, I've been doing stuff in schools and churches, 19 00:01:21.020 --> 00:01:24.820 and there's a church on North Avenue that the guy wanted 20 00:01:24.820 --> 00:01:26.780 to paint, and I would like to paint the altar. 21 00:01:28.060 --> 00:01:31.560 And it would deal with, you know, people in the community 22 00:01:32.320 --> 00:01:35.460 and what they do as compared to other people around the world. 23 00:01:37.880 --> 00:01:40.420 Which a lot of times, there's a lot of things in common 24 00:01:40.420 --> 00:01:44.140 with people here in Chicago or El Salvador or Guatemala 25 00:01:44.140 --> 00:01:47.960 or whatever, you know, Ireland or the Middle East. 26 00:01:49.700 --> 00:01:51.140 It's a nice idea. 27 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:54.760 Are the murals changing? 28 00:01:54.900 --> 00:01:55.940 Since you've been involved, 29 00:01:56.180 --> 00:01:58.160 do you see different techniques, different things? 30 00:01:58.180 --> 00:02:00.340 Well, the techniques are advancing, you know, 31 00:02:00.360 --> 00:02:02.720 because before they used to do it like collage, 32 00:02:02.940 --> 00:02:04.560 they just put up the pictures. 33 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:09.960 Without taking into consideration the geometrics or taking 34 00:02:09.960 --> 00:02:13.060 into consideration the spectator, how he would look at it, 35 00:02:13.060 --> 00:02:16.980 they would just place a picture like a large painting. 36 00:02:18.100 --> 00:02:22.240 But now the people are advancing to a more advanced way 37 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:25.480 of doing it so the spectator can see it from different angles 38 00:02:25.480 --> 00:02:28.500 and still appreciate it. 39 00:02:30.160 --> 00:02:31.480 Who are the muralists? 40 00:02:31.700 --> 00:02:34.700 Is there a certain kind of person who's a muralist 41 00:02:34.700 --> 00:02:36.440 or do you come from all different backgrounds? 42 00:02:37.900 --> 00:02:41.320 Well, they're from all different backgrounds because, 43 00:02:41.820 --> 00:02:44.240 like the guy I was working with at one time, 44 00:02:44.300 --> 00:02:46.220 the one that I was working as an apprentice with, 45 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:48.080 he teaches at Amherst. 46 00:02:49.040 --> 00:02:50.840 He's an artist known around the world. 47 00:02:51.760 --> 00:02:52.820 His name is John Weber. 48 00:02:54.680 --> 00:02:59.840 So it's from different walks of life that people paint, 49 00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:01.060 you know, paint murals. 50 00:03:01.820 --> 00:03:05.000 But basically they all have political ideas, you know. 51 00:03:05.540 --> 00:03:07.800 Murals are, especially murals are political. 52 00:03:07.920 --> 00:03:09.840 They're not just mere decorations. 53 00:03:12.420 --> 00:03:14.600 How did you get into painting murals? 54 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:19.380 Well, because in the 60s. 55 00:03:19.380 --> 00:03:20.340 I could just wait a moment. 56 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:24.920 Okay, now we can. 57 00:03:26.380 --> 00:03:32.260 When I met John, we were doing like cartooning. 58 00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:37.120 So he was doing murals and he asked me if I wanted to help him, 59 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:40.480 you know, to learn the technique that he knew 60 00:03:41.040 --> 00:03:44.360 in doing large areas as opposed to small canvases. 61 00:03:45.920 --> 00:03:46.920 And I started working with him. 62 00:03:46.920 --> 00:03:48.820 Then I picked it up on my own. 63 00:03:50.980 --> 00:03:54.780 What do you think is the most important thing a mural can do? 64 00:03:57.240 --> 00:03:59.900 Well, like in this case, in the case of this mural, 65 00:03:59.900 --> 00:04:04.780 it can make people think that they can do bigger things 66 00:04:04.780 --> 00:04:08.640 than just paint the whole flat, you know. 67 00:04:08.700 --> 00:04:10.100 Like you saw Bernie do on the lines. 68 00:04:11.720 --> 00:04:15.200 This is a way of introducing a new form. 69 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:17.680 And it makes people think of different colors 70 00:04:18.580 --> 00:04:22.860 and that there's other ways of doing things besides the same way 71 00:04:22.860 --> 00:04:23.780 they've been doing before. 72 00:04:25.500 --> 00:04:30.160 Why is it, do you think, that murals are such a strong part 73 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:32.240 of Hispanic culture and tradition? 74 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:36.600 Well, it's not really, in my opinion, 75 00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:40.100 not confined just to the Hispanic. 76 00:04:41.140 --> 00:04:44.260 Though the people who brought it to the highest form 77 00:04:44.260 --> 00:04:48.480 were Mexican artists, you know, like Diego Rivera and Orozco 78 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:50.040 and Siqueiros. 79 00:04:51.280 --> 00:04:53.820 So they identify mural art with them. 80 00:04:54.260 --> 00:04:57.100 But actually, mural art is, at this point, 81 00:04:57.820 --> 00:05:00.380 it's gone beyond that, being just Hispanic. 82 00:05:00.380 --> 00:05:02.440 It's not Hispanic only. 83 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:05.740 You see it at the border trade building downtown. 84 00:05:06.220 --> 00:05:08.380 You see it at the expressway over there on, 85 00:05:09.420 --> 00:05:11.500 what's the name of it? 86 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:13.160 Expressway? 87 00:05:14.500 --> 00:05:15.220 The Kennedy. 88 00:05:16.620 --> 00:05:18.780 And different places you see it in. 89 00:05:19.740 --> 00:05:22.260 So it's not just, well, this one right here, you know. 90 00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:26.200 But it does seem like you see more 91 00:05:26.200 --> 00:05:28.660 in the Hispanic neighborhoods. 92 00:05:28.660 --> 00:05:30.560 Do you have a feeling about why that is? 93 00:05:31.060 --> 00:05:34.020 Because when they started doing them in the 60s, 94 00:05:34.200 --> 00:05:36.000 that's where they were confined to, you know. 95 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:40.880 And people would identify that it was art in neighborhoods 96 00:05:40.880 --> 00:05:42.920 such as, you know, poor neighborhoods 97 00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:44.060 or slum neighborhoods. 98 00:05:44.940 --> 00:05:46.660 That was identified with that then. 99 00:05:47.380 --> 00:05:49.880 Especially coming from L.A., a lot of the people in L.A. 100 00:05:49.900 --> 00:05:51.780 were doing it in their communities, 101 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:53.620 the barrios, as they call them. 102 00:05:53.760 --> 00:05:55.000 And so, of course, they identified 103 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:56.620 with the Hispanic community. 104 00:05:56.620 --> 00:05:59.560 But now I don't think that can be said, you know. 105 00:06:00.020 --> 00:06:03.620 Because it goes beyond being just Hispanic. 106 00:06:04.380 --> 00:06:07.280 You see people doing murals downtown at, 107 00:06:07.520 --> 00:06:09.360 the fancy store, what do you call it? 108 00:06:10.020 --> 00:06:11.420 Bloomsdale, whatever, you know. 109 00:06:11.860 --> 00:06:15.840 Doing mosaics and different forms of art. 110 00:06:16.300 --> 00:06:20.360 It's mural, still mural, but it's being taken downtown 111 00:06:21.100 --> 00:06:24.100 instead of being confined to the neighborhoods. 112 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:27.160 How do you feel about the... 113 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:30.260 I just have one more question. 114 00:06:30.380 --> 00:06:31.540 One more question. 115 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:34.480 Okay, let me get my coat. 116 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:36.820 That's okay, you can wait in here. 117 00:06:37.100 --> 00:06:38.660 Scene one, take five. 118 00:06:42.740 --> 00:06:42.960 Okay. 119 00:06:45.060 --> 00:06:48.580 How do you feel about the transient quality of your work, 120 00:06:48.760 --> 00:06:50.900 the fact that it's outside and it can be affected 121 00:06:50.900 --> 00:06:53.280 by the environment or a building can be torn down? 122 00:06:53.940 --> 00:06:57.720 Well, a lot of the murals are being done outside. 123 00:06:58.020 --> 00:07:00.120 Now we're doing them in a different way. 124 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:01.320 We use better paints. 125 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:05.420 We prepare the wall better. 126 00:07:06.960 --> 00:07:07.720 We tuck point it. 127 00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:08.840 We have to be tuck point it. 128 00:07:08.900 --> 00:07:09.640 We tuck point it. 129 00:07:12.960 --> 00:07:14.980 Let's try this one more time. 130 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:17.680 Let's see. 131 00:07:19.580 --> 00:07:20.740 Scene one, take six. 132 00:07:21.700 --> 00:07:23.280 Okay, it's really the same question. 133 00:07:23.440 --> 00:07:24.360 What I'm trying to get at is... 134 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:25.760 About one step to your right, please. 135 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:28.140 What I'm trying to get at is the fact 136 00:07:28.140 --> 00:07:29.600 that they're not protected in a museum. 137 00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:31.640 You put all this time in and they're outside. 138 00:07:31.860 --> 00:07:33.960 If you could address that, how you feel about that. 139 00:07:34.080 --> 00:07:35.220 They're not as protected? 140 00:07:35.320 --> 00:07:36.280 They're not as protected. 141 00:07:36.440 --> 00:07:37.400 They're out in the environment. 142 00:07:37.900 --> 00:07:39.640 Well, those are the chances we take. 143 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:42.460 We do what we can to prepare the wall 144 00:07:42.460 --> 00:07:45.720 and then after the acrylic is put on, 145 00:07:45.840 --> 00:07:48.980 the acrylic's got a life expectancy of about 10 years 146 00:07:48.980 --> 00:07:51.360 without even being nothing done to it. 147 00:07:52.120 --> 00:07:55.260 So when we do treat the walls with the polymer gloss 148 00:07:55.260 --> 00:07:59.120 or a protective, some people call it varnish, 149 00:08:00.400 --> 00:08:04.120 it's good for at least 20 years before it starts fading. 150 00:08:05.080 --> 00:08:09.840 And then there's money that artists can get 151 00:08:09.840 --> 00:08:13.140 to repair the wall and redo the... 152 00:08:13.900 --> 00:08:15.260 Go ahead, get some ground. 153 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:16.660 Oh, okay, go ahead. 154 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:19.780 And redo the parts that'll fade it out or whatever, 155 00:08:19.780 --> 00:08:21.820 but it's got a life expectancy 156 00:08:22.420 --> 00:08:24.700 without any treatment at all for 10 years. 157 00:08:25.940 --> 00:08:29.540 Then with the treatment it gets, it's good for 20 years. 158 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:34.760 But how long can it last? 159 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:36.760 What's the longest a mural can last? 160 00:08:37.400 --> 00:08:41.880 Well, as long as it's been taken care of, you know, 161 00:08:41.880 --> 00:08:45.060 attended to, like if it fades out in 10 years, 162 00:08:45.100 --> 00:08:47.880 you go out there and redo it again. 163 00:08:48.900 --> 00:08:50.180 And it can last for a long time. 164 00:08:51.280 --> 00:08:52.540 Of course, if it's done in mosaic, 165 00:08:52.700 --> 00:08:54.280 then that's a different thing, 166 00:08:54.400 --> 00:08:57.520 you know, it'll last as long as nobody knocks it down. 167 00:09:00.040 --> 00:09:00.980 Okay. Okay. 168 00:09:01.420 --> 00:09:02.720 Very good, thank you.