WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:06.660 We're rolling there. Scene one, take one, roll four. 2 00:00:07.260 --> 00:00:08.320 Let's get back. 3 00:00:09.640 --> 00:00:09.640 4 00:00:12.500 --> 00:00:16.480 If you could just briefly explain what you're doing here. 5 00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:20.840 Well, like I said, this is a field house, okay. 6 00:00:21.500 --> 00:00:24.140 Like I said before, being inside the field house, 7 00:00:24.400 --> 00:00:25.560 I think I'm doing something different. 8 00:00:25.560 --> 00:00:27.160 I don't know anything different. 9 00:00:27.560 --> 00:00:29.440 It's the same thing we've always been doing. 10 00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:38.920 These were the plumbers, landscaping, painters, and the carpenters. 11 00:00:39.980 --> 00:00:41.160 What sort of work do you do? 12 00:00:41.760 --> 00:00:44.240 I mean landscaping, landscaping maintenance. 13 00:00:45.400 --> 00:00:46.960 And the other guy helping me is a painter. 14 00:00:48.700 --> 00:00:48.860 Right. 15 00:00:50.380 --> 00:00:51.340 Can we stop for a moment? 16 00:00:51.800 --> 00:00:51.800 17 00:00:51.800 --> 00:00:52.080 I'm good. 18 00:00:54.120 --> 00:00:55.900 I just changed into take two. 19 00:00:56.140 --> 00:00:57.740 Okay. Do you have speed? 20 00:00:58.400 --> 00:00:59.020 I think I do. 21 00:00:59.740 --> 00:01:01.760 Scene one, take two. 22 00:01:04.180 --> 00:01:06.120 You paint murals all around the city. 23 00:01:06.420 --> 00:01:10.920 Who do you usually think of as who your murals are for? 24 00:01:11.360 --> 00:01:12.140 Who do you paint for? 25 00:01:12.140 --> 00:01:15.640 Well, most of the murals are community. 26 00:01:16.960 --> 00:01:21.660 So most of the murals are for the community or whoever's around that certain community. 27 00:01:22.520 --> 00:01:24.820 It's in the case of the one here. 28 00:01:25.320 --> 00:01:29.680 Since it's in the park, of course the people that are in the park, 29 00:01:30.020 --> 00:01:33.720 working inside the park are the ones that will view it, you know. 30 00:01:34.260 --> 00:01:39.000 And of course the ones that also participated in helping paint it. 31 00:01:40.020 --> 00:01:44.260 You've said that your murals are more often for young people, 32 00:01:44.260 --> 00:01:47.060 that you're influencing young people. Can you tell us about that? 33 00:01:48.380 --> 00:01:52.380 Well, if it's, if the ones we do in the schools or in some of the neighborhoods, 34 00:01:52.780 --> 00:01:57.660 they are for the influencing the younger people, yeah. 35 00:01:58.220 --> 00:02:02.520 Except for all the other ones that still got a lot of time ahead of them, see. 36 00:02:03.800 --> 00:02:11.520 And at the same time the muralist, as opposed to an art teacher, 37 00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:17.500 he would be considered with sort of outside looking in 38 00:02:18.860 --> 00:02:22.760 and to look for validation for his art, he looks to the art world. 39 00:02:23.440 --> 00:02:27.480 And in our case, we don't do that. We look toward the community. 40 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:29.980 If they like it, it's all right with us, see. 41 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:32.840 Me and my fellow murals too. 42 00:02:34.220 --> 00:02:38.000 What sort of messages are you interested in conveying to young people? 43 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:43.920 Well, a lot of the messages include the ones we've done before, you know, 44 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:45.940 anti-drug, anti-gang, you know. 45 00:02:48.380 --> 00:02:51.040 And like I said, most of them all have to do with the neighborhood 46 00:02:52.100 --> 00:02:54.380 and to a large extent are political. 47 00:02:55.440 --> 00:02:58.440 As this one here, you know, recently it might be political 48 00:02:58.440 --> 00:03:01.900 because it's got the Plumbers Union behind them 49 00:03:01.900 --> 00:03:05.140 and it's got the Landscapers Union, Painters Unions. 50 00:03:05.140 --> 00:03:09.060 So it has to be political one way or the other. 51 00:03:11.460 --> 00:03:15.380 You said that all murals are political. Can you, or all art is political. 52 00:03:15.380 --> 00:03:18.800 Can you maybe restate that for us and explain it? 53 00:03:19.440 --> 00:03:23.260 Well, for the simple reason that art is always connected. 54 00:03:24.480 --> 00:03:27.340 Oh, we need you to say all art is political and then explain it 55 00:03:27.340 --> 00:03:29.480 so that the audience knows what we're talking about. 56 00:03:30.180 --> 00:03:36.780 All art is political for the reason being that anything that's painted 57 00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:39.640 has got something to do with the state or the city 58 00:03:41.160 --> 00:03:45.920 or the local offices in the neighborhood. 59 00:03:46.980 --> 00:03:53.460 Like in the case of this one, it's inside the Park District territory 60 00:03:53.460 --> 00:03:56.960 and the Park District, of course, is political, you know. 61 00:03:59.720 --> 00:04:04.360 Is that a long-term tradition, the political nature of mural art? 62 00:04:04.620 --> 00:04:06.500 It's always been like that, yeah. 63 00:04:07.060 --> 00:04:11.180 For instance, in the 30s, the murals would paint murals dealing with the depression, 64 00:04:12.200 --> 00:04:15.300 the strikes that people were going through, 65 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:22.060 and now people still paint about, you know, political events that are happening 66 00:04:22.060 --> 00:04:26.240 around the world or community-wise. 67 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:31.860 How do you pick a theme for a specific community? How does that come about? 68 00:04:31.980 --> 00:04:37.520 Well, each community or area calls for a certain thing. 69 00:04:38.060 --> 00:04:44.080 For instance, in this case, it called for workers that work in the park. 70 00:04:44.940 --> 00:04:47.920 If I had been in a different area or a school, 71 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:52.500 it would have called for something that had to do with history, teaching, 72 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:55.680 students, teachers, parents. 73 00:04:56.320 --> 00:04:59.400 This one deals with workers, you know, with landscaping workers. 74 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:04.320 Who all is involved in deciding the theme of the mural? 75 00:05:06.140 --> 00:05:11.040 Well, like in this case, when my friend Bernie brought it up, 76 00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:17.420 he suggested we do the plumbers, landscapers, and carpenters. 77 00:05:17.940 --> 00:05:19.660 So he suggested the idea. 78 00:05:20.380 --> 00:05:22.680 It was okay with me, so we went ahead and did it, you know. 79 00:05:23.080 --> 00:05:26.800 It's not that the artist usually pops up his own idea, you know. 80 00:05:27.420 --> 00:05:33.180 Usually somebody has suggestions, and the artist takes it from there and refines it. 81 00:05:33.660 --> 00:05:37.100 What about if it's a community group? How would that work? 82 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:41.020 In the case of a community group, like this summer, 83 00:05:41.100 --> 00:05:45.520 we're going to do a mural with teenagers that do graffiti. 84 00:05:46.840 --> 00:05:49.120 So of course, I'm going to meet with them, 85 00:05:49.320 --> 00:05:52.320 and we're going to decide what it is that they want to put up there, see. 86 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:57.080 Because graffiti is something that they're using now to an extent 87 00:05:57.080 --> 00:05:59.100 that they're using doing fine art with it now. 88 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:02.140 It's not like they spray it on the wall now. 89 00:06:02.140 --> 00:06:06.340 They got a way of making it look like fine art. 90 00:06:07.320 --> 00:06:11.580 So we're going to get together with them, and I'm going to discuss the theme, 91 00:06:12.520 --> 00:06:17.640 and then we'll decide what it is they're going to put, what it is I'm going to put. 92 00:06:18.200 --> 00:06:20.060 But it will work together. 93 00:06:21.080 --> 00:06:22.900 We're thinking of using silhouettes, you know, 94 00:06:22.960 --> 00:06:27.320 like standing somebody in front of a projector with a spray can, 95 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:29.680 projecting the silhouette on the wall, 96 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:32.980 photographing it, and then projecting it on the wall. 97 00:06:35.540 --> 00:06:38.440 But that we'll decide when we get together with the kids. 98 00:06:39.740 --> 00:06:43.560 What do you hope when you get kids working on it like that? 99 00:06:44.580 --> 00:06:47.500 What kind of effects? How do you hope it will affect them to be involved? 100 00:06:48.220 --> 00:06:52.240 Well, for one thing, like in L.A. and New York where they're doing graffiti, 101 00:06:52.840 --> 00:06:57.760 the idea they have, or where they can do graffiti pretty advanced, you know, 102 00:06:57.760 --> 00:07:04.160 the ideas that they put across are very sexist or very negative. 103 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:08.960 But the idea of the muralist is if he's going to do something, you know, 104 00:07:08.960 --> 00:07:10.120 and he's already doing it right, 105 00:07:10.220 --> 00:07:15.820 might as well do something that fits into a more positive light. 106 00:07:17.740 --> 00:07:21.640 Who pays for it? Like in the community? How does it happen? 107 00:07:21.640 --> 00:07:27.340 Well, like in my case, when I've been doing the murals in the communities, 108 00:07:27.760 --> 00:07:29.520 Chicago also Fine Arts, I work for them, 109 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:34.420 and they usually commission me to do the murals, you know. 110 00:07:35.700 --> 00:07:37.280 So you have to get a grant? 111 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:39.820 Yeah, it's a grant that they give me every year. 112 00:07:40.440 --> 00:07:47.080 Or if it's a private, the guy owns a business, and then he'll pay direct, you know. 113 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:54.820 So what are the themes that are most important to you if you can choose? 114 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:56.420 What do you like to paint? 115 00:07:57.740 --> 00:08:01.520 Well, as opposed to like, for instance, canvas painting, it's a different thing. 116 00:08:01.520 --> 00:08:04.760 You can do whatever you want doing canvases, see. 117 00:08:05.460 --> 00:08:11.080 But if it goes out into the public, then it's got to be something that hits a certain issue 118 00:08:12.080 --> 00:08:14.620 or something that's happening in the community, you know. 119 00:08:15.700 --> 00:08:19.540 Do you have certain messages that you feel very strongly about? 120 00:08:20.340 --> 00:08:24.480 Well, for instance, like the one we did last time called We Will Stop the Storm. 121 00:08:25.060 --> 00:08:30.380 The message was, we will stop the storm, you know, like talking about the youth. 122 00:08:31.520 --> 00:08:36.060 Most of that in 12 more years, we'll be into the 21st century, 123 00:08:36.820 --> 00:08:41.640 and it will be up to them to stop the storm, you know, 124 00:08:41.640 --> 00:08:48.120 because they were the most daring, you know, as opposed to people up in the 50s who are saddling. 125 00:08:48.940 --> 00:08:50.400 They want to just be comfortable. 126 00:08:50.880 --> 00:08:53.080 The kids are still daring and doing things, you know. 127 00:08:54.780 --> 00:08:59.260 Is that why you do murals, or I guess I should say why do you paint murals? 128 00:08:59.340 --> 00:09:01.120 Why do you personally do it? 129 00:09:01.940 --> 00:09:08.800 Well, the reason for the murals is to put across my ideas in combination with their ideas 130 00:09:08.800 --> 00:09:14.920 and make a strong political statement, the stronger, the strongest possible, you know. 131 00:09:16.340 --> 00:09:20.580 What about colors and design elements? How does that play into it when you're creating? 132 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:25.420 Well, like in the case of this one, the time is limited. 133 00:09:25.740 --> 00:09:29.860 We're trying to figure out how to use color and take up a lot of space. 134 00:09:30.420 --> 00:09:34.500 It's supposed to be very technical about shading and stuff like that. 135 00:09:34.500 --> 00:09:40.600 We take large areas and use a lot of color because we only have a couple of weeks to do it. 136 00:09:41.340 --> 00:09:43.980 What do particular colors mean to you? 137 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:50.740 Well, the colors are the lighter colors, for instance, make the room look wider. 138 00:09:51.140 --> 00:09:53.480 Darker colors make it look smaller. 139 00:09:54.380 --> 00:09:57.780 Dark lines like that one looks closer this way. 140 00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:01.060 A lighter color looks farther away, you know. 141 00:10:02.020 --> 00:10:07.640 That's the reason for using colors inside a building and with limited time. 142 00:10:08.180 --> 00:10:12.920 Now, if you've got a lot of time, then you can blend in a lot of colors and take all the time you want. 143 00:10:15.940 --> 00:10:21.940 What are the symbolic or psychological or human messages in the colors? 144 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:28.380 Well, like in the colors, it's warm and dark colors, right? 145 00:10:28.380 --> 00:10:35.260 So we're using dark colors and light colors to project certain feelings. 146 00:10:35.780 --> 00:10:43.220 But in the case of this one, we're using colors that are familiar here in the park, like yellow and green. 147 00:10:44.540 --> 00:10:47.800 Those are the colors that are familiar here in this area here. 148 00:10:48.340 --> 00:10:53.220 You began painting nails in San Antonio or became interested there? 149 00:10:53.740 --> 00:10:56.300 No, I started painting when I was here in 1964. 150 00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:59.760 Were you influenced by things you saw in San Antonio? 151 00:11:02.180 --> 00:11:03.520 Not with the murals, no. 152 00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:07.280 I was influenced mostly by the stuff that they were doing here when I got here, see? 153 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:12.600 Like a lot of the artists were doing political work, so I was influenced by them, you know. 154 00:11:13.820 --> 00:11:17.780 But you talked about the heroes of Alamo and that you felt they weren't representing... 155 00:11:17.780 --> 00:11:18.260 Graphic. 156 00:11:18.260 --> 00:11:21.300 Okay. Yeah, I was going to kind of get into a political... 157 00:11:25.740 --> 00:11:27.760 Scene one, take three. 158 00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:37.780 Jose, you said once that your art was influenced or maybe some of your political feelings were influenced by things you saw in San Antonio, 159 00:11:38.180 --> 00:11:41.300 that Alamo and the fact that those heroes weren't really your heroes. 160 00:11:41.400 --> 00:11:42.680 Can you tell us about that? 161 00:11:43.300 --> 00:11:50.620 Well, see, the heroes of the Alamo are not heroes at all to nobody, in my mind. 162 00:11:51.520 --> 00:11:56.540 Most especially to the Mexican people because they were occupying the country, see? 163 00:11:57.900 --> 00:12:07.620 So those are the Alamo plus whatever else they got there were mostly like symbols of reaction, you know, to the Mexican people. 164 00:12:08.260 --> 00:12:10.780 And to a lot of other people, but mostly to the Mexican people. 165 00:12:10.780 --> 00:12:19.360 They don't see it as a monument to heroism, but to oppression, you know. 166 00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:25.000 Has that influenced your art? What you think? 167 00:12:25.800 --> 00:12:30.260 Well, political art, that's only a small part of it. 168 00:12:30.640 --> 00:12:39.300 The political art evolves from seeing whatever happens around the world, you know, or even here in the U.S. 169 00:12:42.400 --> 00:12:46.800 Do people respect the murals out in the community in a special way? 170 00:12:47.320 --> 00:12:55.840 Most of the murals are painted like Spaulding in the north and Kastner on 26th Street. 171 00:12:56.220 --> 00:13:01.100 People leave them alone. They usually don't deface them or anything like that. 172 00:13:01.340 --> 00:13:09.020 For instance, I wanted Spaulding. It's got graffiti all around it except on the mural, you know. 173 00:13:09.020 --> 00:13:12.340 So people usually leave them alone. They respect them, yeah. 174 00:13:12.460 --> 00:13:13.720 Why do you think that is? 175 00:13:14.420 --> 00:13:18.200 Well, because a lot of times the people participate in them, you know. 176 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:21.820 They identify as part of the community. 177 00:13:25.760 --> 00:13:32.740 You had talked about not thinking of yourself as an artist or not wanting to be called an artist. What did you mean? 178 00:13:33.340 --> 00:13:41.100 Well, mostly as a member of the working class, I'm a culture worker, you know. 179 00:13:41.760 --> 00:13:47.480 Because artists can cover a lot of things, you know, like Andy Warhol or people like that, you know. 180 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:57.420 And they come from different classes, you know, so I would say to me I consider myself a cultural worker, you know, as opposed to artists. 181 00:14:00.580 --> 00:14:04.340 How are you treated differently in the community because of your work? 182 00:14:05.580 --> 00:14:11.560 No, because I consider myself more a cultural worker than an artist. I'm treated just like one of the people there, you see. 183 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:18.800 Or like here, you know, I'm just a worker here, you know. I just work for everybody else, you see. I just work for us, you know. 184 00:14:19.780 --> 00:14:25.840 But you mentioned, you told us a story about being the mural man. People call you the mural man. Can you tell us a little bit about that? 185 00:14:26.340 --> 00:14:40.320 Well, that's at 26th Street because I've been going there every year, you know, so instead of saying I'm the artist or the guy who's painting the walls, he says they refer to me as the mural man, you know. The man who works on the wall, you know. 186 00:14:41.140 --> 00:14:45.580 Have you seen the results of your murals in terms of what you painted and what you shoot?