WEBVTT

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Oh gosh, that's why he's not a town man.

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Awesome.

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By the way, just make sure that both these are right.

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Are pilots.

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Let me get up to Steve here.

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Okay, so this is take one, roll one, three, twelve, eighty-nine.

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This is the interview.

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Okay, Sue, you're ready.

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Anytime, Ivan.

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Okay, well, one of the reasons, or something that I saw the difference in colors when I came to Chicago from Puerto Rico,

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is that probably because Puerto Rico is a tropical island, you see a lot of colors and flowers and everything.

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Here, I hardly see any colors, like the buildings.

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To me, we don't see the colors.

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They are dark gray or brown.

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It's not different colors, and that's something that I noticed when I came to Chicago compared to Puerto Rico.

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Again, be sure to look at Susan and not at the camera.

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Let's do it again. That was real good.

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Just look at the contrast in the colors.

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This time maybe tie the murals.

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Take two.

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Okay, something that I noticed the difference in colors with the murals when I came to Chicago is that compared to Puerto Rico,

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I mean the bright color that we have there compared to Chicago, every time I walk in the neighborhood,

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here in Chicago, I see those colors again.

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And it reflects some of my, you know, the way I used to see it before in Puerto Rico.

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And that's one of the things that caught my attention besides so many other things on the murals.

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Okay, stop.

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Scene two, take one.

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Okay, ready. Okay, Ivan.

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Well, the murals, when we see it, when I see it, I see that they represent us.

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I mean, the Latino community, the Puerto Rican community, we are, when I see the paintings, to me, I see my own life in a way.

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When we first came to Chicago, there was no newspaper.

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I mean, there was, but not informative, I mean, word enough.

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So those murals are telling us continuously, remember the reasons why you come to this country.

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Don't forget who you are.

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And they're controversial.

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I mean, they may not, a lot of people agree and disagree.

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We all talk about, you know, about the work.

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But I like to see it because we have to walk every day and see it.

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And it's part of the community.

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I respect the people who did the work.

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And I believe they did it to help the community.

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They may not, we may not agree with their point of view, political or any other reasons,

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but I agree that they are doing it for the well of the community.

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Okay, very good.

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Yeah, I thought that was pretty good.

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Yeah, we kind of jumped to several questions.

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That's okay.

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That's good, that's fine.

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Yeah, that's fine, don't worry about it.

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I realize it's kind of hard to do this.

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If someone said to me, six months ago you said, I'd probably go, I didn't mean it.

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So don't worry about being sick.

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I'm wondering if we...

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Scene two, take two.

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Okay, when you're ready, Alan.

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Okay, for us to be, to get used to live in a new city with new people,

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people that are not, that we don't know each other in a way.

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I mean, this mural helped us create our community.

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There was no newspapers around, no other way of communication.

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We used to have, there was a few like radio stations,

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only putting up music all day because probably they didn't have the facility to,

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reporters or whatever, so they only put music continuously.

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And here come those murals, and in a way they were telling us continuously who we are.

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And the reason why we came here, and we may not, we may not see now,

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you know, when we see it now, probably it's not the same like 20, 25 years ago,

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because everything is changing.

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I mean, what I'm telling you now probably is not what's happening right now,

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because we are growing up.

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This is a wider community right now,

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and we have different groups from Latin Americans and other countries.

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But when I first came here, it was not, I mean, we were starting, everything was coming out,

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and those things helped us in a way, see it every day.

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That's one of the reasons I started photographing the murals,

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because when I photograph one of those and I put it on the wall in my house,

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someone that comes to my house, they say, I seen that work somewhere.

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Isn't it on the corner of this street?

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So they seen it, but it's not until they sit in my house that they recognize what, you know,

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now they pay more attention.

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They start asking me, why did I photograph that mural?

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And I used to tell them what I see, you know, on the mural.

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It could be political, religions, but they start asking questions.

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And I didn't know the artist who put, you know, that was my point of view on the murals to see it.

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And, you know, there are so many reasons why they're there that probably a lot of people like the murals,

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I mean, in the community, because something that I notice continuously is that there are no graffiti on it.

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There are a few because there is no way to stop.

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But if you look down the block, you see more graffiti all over the walls.

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And I don't know why on the murals, the kids respect the murals.

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I mean, they're not 100 percent, you know, protected.

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But I don't know.

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The mural are telling them, you're doing it to yourself and you, you know.

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And that's, that's, that's what I see on the murals.

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Okay. Can you tell us how you pick a mural to photograph?

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What, how did you decide?

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Again, if you can explain how you pick a mural.

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Well, when I pick a mural to photograph, usually I won't go out of my neighborhood to do it.

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I mean, I don't, I don't chase, I don't go looking for murals.

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It's, I don't know, probably because they're not over, not all over the city in Chicago.

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It's like they are in the ethnic group, ethnic communities.

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I don't know, probably if I go to a upper class neighborhood in Chicago, they're against that,

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because that will not look nice in their neighborhood.

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So I don't know if that's true or not. I'm not, you know.

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But I've been around Chicago and I only see those murals in certain areas in Chicago.

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So when I look into it, I try to study what the artist wants to tell us about what's going on around.

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So then I study that, I may not see what the artist wants me to see,

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but I create my own and I give credit to those guys who are doing it.

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And I start looking around, taking photographs, but in a way I believe they represent what's going on.

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You know, what's happened to us every day, drugs, dropouts, no housing.

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Someone is crying, someone is telling us up and up, I mean, look around you, you have to do something.

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Because we're here to stay. I mean, we're not going anywhere.

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We're part of this community and we may not have the power on the media to let people know that we're here to stay.

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But that mural there are telling the people, you know, we're here to stay and let's fight, you know.

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But not fight in a way that we're going to destroy it.

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That we have to educate ourselves and we need more housing, we need better education.

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And that we can look forward, we can look.

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And, but when I pick up a mural before I photograph, I look into it in different ways.

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I study the pictures and I like the colors.

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I don't know why I have colors that I like the colors, probably because they're here in Chicago.

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And, you know, that's one of the reasons why.

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Okay, can we stop for a second?

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Scene three, take one.

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Okay, Adam.

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Something else about the murals is that they are very informative about what's going on with the teenagers in our community.

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I mean, every morning when I go to the bus stop to wait for the bus, there's a group of people, I mean the students, they're going to school.

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But none of them drop a quarter there to buy the newspaper.

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They're telling that we're in front of the mural.

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But that mural will tell them not to drop out from school, to stay out with drugs.

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There's so much information there.

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They may laugh at the guy because he's drunk and he's on the floor.

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But the artist is telling them this could be you if you don't keep looking toward the future.

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And they're telling that I look around and I say, none of them bought the paper.

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I mean, not even for the sports section.

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I mean, it's like they don't care.

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Probably I used to do the same thing.

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But right now, that's the way I see it, that the murals are there.

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And every time when they had to walk to get the bus, they had to pass by them.

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And they lean on them.

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They know it's there.

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And what I do, I serve people, mostly the young person, because they are the ones that we have to look after.

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And probably they are the ones that the artists want to reach when they put those murals there.

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They want to tell them continuously.

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And those are things that I see when I am at the corner waiting for the bus.

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None of them are, I mean, probably because they're too young.

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They're too young, but they're part of our community.

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We don't want them to be lost.

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We want them to be part of this community, but don't forget about theirs.

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Don't forget that we can mix them together and grow without forgetting about the other culture.

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That's something that I tell my son.

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There are times that he asks, and he asks me, are you, you know, that I'm Mexican, Puerto Rican, American?

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I say, you are Mexican, you're Puerto Rican, you're American.

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Because I'm Puerto Rican, you're white, I'm Mexican, and you're born here.

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Learn everything that you can about the three cultures.

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I mean, because if you only learn about one, you're not learning enough, because the more you learn.

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And since he's walking through those communities, when he starts looking at people, he doesn't see himself as a Latino only.

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He sees himself as an American, because as a group, I mean, we have different types of Americans, but we all are Americans.

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So that's what I teach him, in a way, and that's the way I believe the murals are telling the people.

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We must fight. We're not moving out of here. We're going to stay here.

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I mean, we're here, we're going to stay here.

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But we're going to be part of this community.

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We're going to work to help this community out, and we're not going to allow anyone to stop us from growing.

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And there's so many things that that mural is telling us.

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I never get tired of looking at those.

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And every time I come, I may find, you know, you may see a mural today, tomorrow, the day after.

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And who knows, within a month after, you may see something else.

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Looking at the same mural, because it's totally, every day, it reflects our life.

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So I believe it's, every day you can pick something out of that, because there's so much information.

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We should probably stop because it's not on camera. That was so good.

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This is scene four, take one, roll two.

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Okay, I believe the murals, well, that's the way I see it.

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I believe it's like ours, it's like the Latinos, it represents us.

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Some other group may have those, but I've never seen those in some other community.

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If you go to the Mexican, you see murals everywhere in the Puerto Rican community, even some other Cubans community that we have a small one here in Chicago.

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You can start seeing those murals. They represent us.

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And I don't know the reason, it could be that we are the one who has to struggle here.

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I mean, we want to, I don't know, probably want a piece of the pie.

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We're telling the people, we're here, we're fighting.

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And everyone had to see those murals.

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Even, they put, I don't know if they put those murals for us directly, some of them.

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Or they'll do it for, well, a mural would be seen by so many people.

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Even the people in power, people that have the power in the city to help us.

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And every time they pass by, they had to see it.

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And driving there every day, they're going to start asking questions, what these people want.

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And I see it like it's ours, because when you go to Puerto Rico, when you go to Mexico, when you go to Latin America, you see murals.

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But there it's different. The murals there are against the government there.

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They want to fight for independence, they want to fight to get control.

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It's, it's probably, the message is the same, but they present it in a different way.

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That's how I see the murals. I mean, it belongs to us, but I don't know, I respect that.

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Okay. Do you want to stop for a sec?

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Alright.

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Singapore, take two.

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Okay, Adam.

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Also, the murals represent not only is a message, but also is art.

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You know, we had to remember that it's not only the message, but we had to see the creative of the person, how he's being creative in doing it.

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We had to give credit to those persons who are doing it.

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For us, it's more than seeing a painting at the museum, because there, it doesn't represent us.

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I mean, first, we don't see anything in those. I don't understand the painting that I see at the museum.

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You see a couple of brushes here and there, but I don't know what they mean.

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I mean, probably because some other people don't have problems, and those are their problems, that is being represented on those paintings.

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But to us, the murals represent our problems, and we see it every day.

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We don't see the painting at the museum interested to us.

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To tell you the truth, I don't understand, probably because I'm not that much into art.

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I respect their view, I mean, even though I don't understand what they want.

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If they come to me and explain to me that the paint and the artists are trying to reflect their problems,

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then probably I would understand what Picasso means.

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And I would say, well, those are the problems from the rich people that he's painting.

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But I don't understand their art. But the murals is our museum.

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You see, you look this way, you see one, you look the other way, you see another one.

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And you don't have to know anything about art to understand a mural.

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You know that that's your life, that that's the way you live, that that's your future.

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The painters, they put it in a way, they're realistic.

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I mean, when you see the bottle of drugs there, they're on painting any other way.

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That's the way you see it. That's the way you see it on the street.

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And mural photos, it's our museum in a way, but they're realistic.

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Okay. Stop.

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Speed. Scene four, take three.

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Okay.

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Okay, I started photographing those murals because the community, I don't know what's going on,

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but we're losing a lot of property through fires.

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The city wants the land and their building, and they're, they tore down those buildings.

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And I don't know if someone else is doing it, but I started doing it.

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I started photographing those murals in order to preserve.

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I was doing it for myself. I never done anything for any other people.

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And I don't belong to any group.

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I just go out, grab my camera, and I said, I know they're going to tore down that building.

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And I want to maintain, and I want to keep that painting with us.

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And that piece of art that reflect our life.

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That's one of the reasons that I always go out and photograph the murals.

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And I not only try to do it in an artistic way, just taking the picture.

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And there are times that I present the pictures to some of my friends.

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And I see, I would let them know where this picture, this mural was.

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And they feel sad about it because we lost something.

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But the city, the neighborhood that we live right now, that I belong to,

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they're going through a lot of rehab.

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And different people are moving in. We're moving out.

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We don't see it. We just keep moving.

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And I would like to see my community stay and move forward where we are right now.

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But we don't have no control over the property. We have to move.

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This is a scene for Take 4, non-sync.

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If you could just tell us again why you photograph the murals because of this thing.

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I photograph the mural because, well, there are so many reasons why.

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I mean, first of all, I do it because I like taking pictures.

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It belongs to us. That's the way I see it.

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It's something that tells us continuously who we are and where we're going.

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But also another problem that we have is that in our neighborhood, we're going through a lot of rehab.

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And they're changing.

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The Latino community, we live around the Loop of Chicago.

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And I don't know, probably, that the property that we are right now are the most expensive around the Loop area.

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And they're pushing us out so we don't have no control over it. We just have to move.

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So I like to go and photograph those murals because soon they won't be there.

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Someone's going to go there and stand blessed at the building because for them it's not art.

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For them, it doesn't represent anything.

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I mean, if they're willing to pay for what we pay $25,000, they're willing to pay $200,000 for the same property.

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I don't think they will see the painting, the mural there as an art.

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Probably they will hang something from Picasso or from the lay, something that will reflect their way of living.

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But they don't see us.

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And when I talk about a mural, I'm not talking about poverty

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because we're not trying in our community to move to a higher level of life.

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I mean, we're all looking forward to a better way of living.

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We probably would not fight to be on the upper class.

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We just want to live decent.

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And I would like to see those murals stay there.

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But I don't know if that would be possible the way I see it.

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The community are changing.