WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.840 --> 00:00:10.360 This is Avon 9, 1888, reel number 3. 2 00:00:10.360 --> 00:00:25.380 Let me, I'm just going to show you a few slides of murals that are around here and see kind of what you think of them or what, I guess they're probably ones you know, if you like them. 3 00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:39.000 Oh yeah, I love this one. I have this one somewhere. But yeah, it's been there for a long time. I mean, they haven't put, they haven't write, you know, graffiti or anything. 4 00:00:40.700 --> 00:00:45.640 That's what I love, you know, even the kids, there is a gang right in front of this place. 5 00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:54.580 Yeah, what I like about this one is that, you know, like people grabbing their home, they don't want to live, they want to stay there. 6 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:07.420 And you see different faces, like we all have the same need for housing and we all have the same problem. 7 00:01:08.460 --> 00:01:19.560 It's like the people right now that are burning the stadium, some of those people, they don't want to live, but since money talk, they're going to get new houses, even in a different neighborhood. 8 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:38.820 And that's what I see here. It would say that we all have the same need for houses to protect them and probably, I don't know, look on the left of like drugs and cars. 9 00:01:39.700 --> 00:01:55.560 But the main point here, I would say the need for housing. Because it may have a few other messages between the car and the, but I always try to concentrate. 10 00:01:55.560 --> 00:02:07.320 When I was taking my pictures, some of the people used to say, but you did not took the, that was a dog barking. The dog, let's see, I don't like that dog there. 11 00:02:08.160 --> 00:02:17.740 I was trying to eliminate the thing that I didn't like about the mural. And that's the way I see it right now. 12 00:02:17.740 --> 00:02:34.900 You may ask, don't you see that they have drugs on the side? They have alcohol, they're drinking, but I see the need of housing and the people fighting, this is my house, I want to protect the house. 13 00:02:37.440 --> 00:02:38.740 That's what I... 14 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:41.740 So you sort of focus on the part you like best? 15 00:02:41.740 --> 00:02:49.720 Well, it dominates, I can, you know, you can always look abstract and look to the small parts. 16 00:02:51.800 --> 00:03:04.220 But mural had to go directly to the people that they want to reach. Don't paint like Picasso or those, you had to be direct. 17 00:03:05.180 --> 00:03:18.960 That's how I, yeah, that's what I like about this one also, that they're being direct. We are killing each other. This one is the one by Hoyne and DeVision. 18 00:03:20.860 --> 00:03:29.580 And it says, you know, they're saying that we have to be united, they got the black hand with the, you know, with the... 19 00:03:29.580 --> 00:03:35.380 So this is a clear message. In this type of mural, they're reaching people. 20 00:03:37.500 --> 00:03:50.880 But this one, they talk about us. I don't see a revolution in Mexico or in, you know, their time, their place for those. 21 00:03:50.880 --> 00:04:00.260 But this one, I like, that's the type, I haven't taken pictures of those about revolutions or... 22 00:04:00.260 --> 00:04:04.100 I take pictures about the need here of the Latinos. 23 00:04:06.320 --> 00:04:15.140 I remember that you mentioned to me, you probably talked about this, but how you feel like Chicago has sort of become your home, even when you go to Puerto Rico or to Mexico. 24 00:04:16.140 --> 00:04:18.140 Yeah, but it... 25 00:04:19.220 --> 00:04:28.120 Yeah, because I, now, it gets to a point after you lived in a place for so many years that you realize that this is your house, this is your home. 26 00:04:29.380 --> 00:04:31.960 And even though when I go there, I start missing Chicago. 27 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:41.720 And in this type of work, when I go around now, I say they're not reflecting our need. 28 00:04:42.660 --> 00:04:47.240 Let's talk on this mural, on this painting, the need that we have. 29 00:04:48.200 --> 00:04:56.720 It's nice to know about history. We all know the Mexican Revolution, but let's not put it on every wall that you see. 30 00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:00.940 About the independent movement of Puerto Rico, let's not... 31 00:05:00.940 --> 00:05:06.720 Because they forget about our needs. We need houses, we need... 32 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:11.220 I mean, so many things. And people all... 33 00:05:11.220 --> 00:05:20.640 Don't tell the Puerto Rican they are struggling here to survive. They came from Puerto Rico looking for a better living, that they're going to be better off by being independent. 34 00:05:22.200 --> 00:05:25.480 They're not going to listen to that. They're not going to look at the wall. 35 00:05:27.500 --> 00:05:34.440 Now, you may tell an intellectual, and yeah, he will say that we're going to be better off. 36 00:05:34.440 --> 00:05:37.880 And it's nothing better than being independent. 37 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:45.380 But realistically, when you're talking to people that are hungry, it's like probably... 38 00:05:45.380 --> 00:05:51.360 That's the way I see it again. It's like the Cuban here. They're fighting to overthrow Fidel Castro. 39 00:05:52.140 --> 00:05:54.340 But don't they be banquets? 40 00:05:54.580 --> 00:06:00.540 You see when they arrive to those places, fancy, always pretend that they're better than the other Latinos. 41 00:06:00.540 --> 00:06:04.500 And I'm talking about a small group. I'm not saying about... 42 00:06:04.500 --> 00:06:09.640 I do have friends, Cubans, that are the best people to be with. 43 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:16.420 But there are some that when they want to... They always talk about the upper class. 44 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:21.320 So they're not going to get anywhere. That's the way I see it. 45 00:06:21.380 --> 00:06:25.540 And that's the way I see this... I don't know if they have... 46 00:06:25.540 --> 00:06:33.180 I'm sure if I go to a Cuban community, they will have in their mural their need. 47 00:06:35.420 --> 00:06:42.440 And if you paint a mural killing Fidel Castro in every wall, you're not going to get nowhere. 48 00:06:44.980 --> 00:06:48.240 Because they've been here for 20, what, 25 years. 49 00:06:50.520 --> 00:06:55.240 They need to move forward. It's time to... 50 00:06:57.780 --> 00:07:01.280 I don't know if that's the information that you want me when I see this. 51 00:07:01.620 --> 00:07:04.900 Whatever you want. There are no right or wrong answers. 52 00:07:13.780 --> 00:07:16.540 I have a couple of shots of that if you want to look at it closer. 53 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:21.460 I see this... It's the same type of picture that I take. 54 00:07:21.640 --> 00:07:31.480 I never go crazy about... I may take from different angles, but I'm not trying to get the sharper out of the... 55 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:43.500 I'm not getting close up. I do like to separate the painting, but not to be fancy. 56 00:07:43.860 --> 00:07:47.800 I'm not going to get up in the building and start... 57 00:07:47.800 --> 00:07:52.960 Here shouldn't matter or something. But this is the type of picture I take. 58 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:58.900 And I've seen this one before too. 59 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:07.800 This one is... I had to analyze. I saw this one. It's nearby. It's around here. 60 00:08:09.460 --> 00:08:11.640 But you see, I haven't been paying attention to this one lately. 61 00:08:12.300 --> 00:08:14.220 I had to see it in another angle. 62 00:08:19.620 --> 00:08:20.760 You do have another one? 63 00:08:20.960 --> 00:08:24.640 Yeah. I'll show you... 64 00:08:27.420 --> 00:08:29.640 But something that I really... 65 00:08:30.340 --> 00:08:33.000 This thing has been there for years. 66 00:08:33.800 --> 00:08:36.260 And you don't see that many graffiti on top. 67 00:08:36.420 --> 00:08:40.680 It's like kids respect those things. 68 00:08:49.460 --> 00:08:52.480 This is the one by Milwaukee, right? 69 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:55.480 Well, you know, this is all... 70 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:00.760 Well, to me, it reflects the same thing that our... 71 00:09:00.760 --> 00:09:03.480 Most of these ones... 72 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:06.700 I see that they reflect the education, the problem that we have. 73 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:16.000 Again, some of this mural that they talk about, the problem that we have in education, 74 00:09:16.800 --> 00:09:22.240 it's like they don't get together. The professional, the teachers, and the artists, they don't get together. 75 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:26.600 It's like the artists, they keep criticizing the system. 76 00:09:28.380 --> 00:09:36.520 But I would like to see answers. There are answers to see what can we do to correct the problem. 77 00:09:37.560 --> 00:09:39.240 You see... 78 00:09:39.780 --> 00:09:43.000 A lot of these murals around here, they reflect the education. 79 00:09:43.460 --> 00:09:47.700 There are a few. You see the dropout. You see the books on the floor. 80 00:09:50.040 --> 00:09:53.740 That's a problem that we all know that we have, that we have to correct that. 81 00:09:53.880 --> 00:09:57.140 But this mural has been around for 15 years there. 82 00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:02.180 And it's like we all know the problem, but we don't know the solution. We don't know the answers. 83 00:10:03.280 --> 00:10:06.840 And there, I have to accuse or I have to criticize the professional. 84 00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:08.580 We do have some professional people. 85 00:10:08.680 --> 00:10:17.420 I'm saying professional people with a college degree, teaching, that they just get off from work and they go home. 86 00:10:17.420 --> 00:10:19.420 They don't get involved in the... 87 00:10:19.420 --> 00:10:22.440 I'm sure a lot of the teachers around, they haven't seen this work. 88 00:10:24.820 --> 00:10:25.340 So... 89 00:10:25.340 --> 00:10:27.000 There's a different angle on this one. 90 00:10:43.640 --> 00:10:45.540 How many people have you interviewed? 91 00:10:47.180 --> 00:10:48.060 These two. 92 00:10:48.560 --> 00:10:51.060 I don't know. You guys. 93 00:10:51.380 --> 00:10:52.480 We've interviewed a lot. 94 00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:53.000 A lot? 95 00:10:54.160 --> 00:10:54.720 Yeah. 96 00:10:54.760 --> 00:10:57.980 Yeah, it's, you know... 97 00:10:57.980 --> 00:11:04.220 These are clear messages. It's the same mural, but it's a clear message that we need to be educated. 98 00:11:04.380 --> 00:11:06.460 We need to finish high school. 99 00:11:08.120 --> 00:11:10.560 But at the same time, we're doing it. 100 00:11:11.220 --> 00:11:15.980 But we're not...they're not...they promised us something and we're not getting it. 101 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:21.340 It's like we have two members on the board of education. 102 00:11:22.500 --> 00:11:24.700 Next year you may see one or you may see none. 103 00:11:26.060 --> 00:11:31.920 It's like we move one step ahead and two the other way. 104 00:11:32.780 --> 00:11:38.340 It's like in politics. You see those arguments running against each other. 105 00:11:38.340 --> 00:11:45.660 It's like...and again, I'm saying, I know a little more like the Mexican and the Puerto Rican. 106 00:11:46.280 --> 00:11:50.600 It's like we're running against...we don't have the power to elect yet. 107 00:11:52.100 --> 00:12:02.980 But we want to...we don't have the power to put someone there, but we want to knock someone down from that position. 108 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:07.880 It's like we have an alderman there. 109 00:12:08.460 --> 00:12:10.440 He's the first Latino there. 110 00:12:11.060 --> 00:12:14.280 Let's help the guy. Don't put three guys to run against him. 111 00:12:16.100 --> 00:12:18.220 Let's help the guy. Let's put another one. 112 00:12:18.260 --> 00:12:21.420 Let's put two more aldermen in our community. 113 00:12:22.420 --> 00:12:27.480 Then if they don't do it good, we take him out. 114 00:12:27.700 --> 00:12:29.220 But we're doing it the other way around. 115 00:12:29.220 --> 00:12:33.580 That guy's been there a year and we just... 116 00:12:33.580 --> 00:12:35.520 And that's what I see with this. 117 00:12:35.820 --> 00:12:38.540 Continuously they're telling us to educate ourselves. 118 00:12:42.620 --> 00:12:43.320 That's what I see. 119 00:12:43.580 --> 00:12:48.940 Most of the murals, that's what I see beside those from the revolution or beside those against the government, 120 00:12:49.100 --> 00:12:53.740 which I believe that was a time that was too many. 121 00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:55.580 Probably that was in the 60s, probably. 122 00:12:59.220 --> 00:13:03.280 This helps to keep the community focused. Do you think it has an impact? 123 00:13:03.680 --> 00:13:08.800 It does, but again, they're going to have to come out to reach more Latinos. 124 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:18.740 They have to start painting those murals with the way they dress, the way they put their hair now. 125 00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:29.020 I mean, don't try...just because that kid wears long hair, don't paint him on the mural. 126 00:13:29.020 --> 00:13:29.660 It's going to look different. 127 00:13:30.680 --> 00:13:32.600 And let's put the message in English. 128 00:13:33.020 --> 00:13:35.840 Don't reach my mother. My mother doesn't have any problem. 129 00:13:36.180 --> 00:13:38.300 She's not going to change right now, or my father. 130 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:44.520 Oh, my father goes there and she reads and... 131 00:13:44.520 --> 00:13:49.840 Que es la democracia, que es cierto, que es la paz, la libertad. 132 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:54.500 And they're going to keep walking and they're going to watch their soap, their novelas. 133 00:13:54.500 --> 00:14:01.200 And that's it. We need to reach the young people, the kids that they need to read. 134 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:06.740 Let's see if they can read, because I take my son to one of these murals and I say, 135 00:14:06.880 --> 00:14:14.600 read that, that is a panel that's in Spanish. I can't, but he can use an excuse if it is in English. 136 00:14:16.500 --> 00:14:21.980 So let's get the message across. Let's reach the people that we want to. 137 00:14:22.780 --> 00:14:26.800 And some of these, they put so much on it that you get confused. 138 00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:30.800 You really need to be smoking or something in order to see it. 139 00:14:31.400 --> 00:14:36.220 Yeah, that's the way to see it. I mean, when you're going to put this and you're going to put that, 140 00:14:36.380 --> 00:14:40.200 it's like you're putting too much. 141 00:14:41.060 --> 00:14:44.300 Remember that we haven't reached that point yet. 142 00:14:45.660 --> 00:14:48.440 We're not supposed to be that smart. 143 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:58.560 And we want to reach that even though we have, the people that we want to reach, don't get them more confused. 144 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:14.440 You see, yeah, the kids, our kids, they talk, but the Spanish that they, remember that when you're going to, 145 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:20.380 when you're going to write a Spanish on those murals, you're not going to put like, el poche, 146 00:15:21.800 --> 00:15:24.420 because that's not Spanish. You're going to use el balcón. 147 00:15:25.380 --> 00:15:33.060 You're going to use the real Spanish. The Spanish that they spoke here is not the Spanish that we know. 148 00:15:34.060 --> 00:15:35.580 So it's two different Spanish. 149 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:39.400 There are, you know, what they use continuously. 150 00:15:39.400 --> 00:15:46.620 And if you're going to write down in Spanish, you know, Spanish, then they will, 151 00:15:46.900 --> 00:15:53.500 but you have to realize that you're dealing with people that, a lot of them, 152 00:15:54.420 --> 00:15:58.300 their parents never reached more than grammar school. 153 00:15:59.820 --> 00:16:06.720 And their kids speak English where the Spanish from their parents are bad. 154 00:16:07.400 --> 00:16:12.620 So you're going to have to one of the two. You're going to reach the parents, which work all day. 155 00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:16.940 You see, in Latin America, it's different. 156 00:16:17.300 --> 00:16:21.380 You want to reach the parents because you want to overthrow the government. 157 00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:25.840 Here, you're not going to overthrow no government. 158 00:16:26.800 --> 00:16:30.820 You want to change the neighborhood. You want to improve. You want to... 159 00:16:30.820 --> 00:16:38.200 So let's reach those guys. When you see the, like I said before, the newspaper, you see the message, no drugs, 160 00:16:40.540 --> 00:16:45.320 going to school. Be simple. Don't be... 161 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:47.740 Do you think they understand the images? 162 00:16:48.020 --> 00:16:48.840 They do. 163 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:53.860 I mean, like, do you show them the one of... 164 00:16:53.860 --> 00:16:54.720 That's what we're looking at. 165 00:16:55.100 --> 00:16:58.340 Yeah. Do you think they would understand the negative side, you see the syringes in the... 166 00:16:58.340 --> 00:17:02.200 Do you think they would understand that as don't do this? 167 00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:06.900 Yeah. But that was, you see, like this one was probably 10 years ago. 168 00:17:07.320 --> 00:17:10.120 This has been there, the one I see that is nearby. 169 00:17:12.080 --> 00:17:16.200 And at that time... 170 00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:21.640 Well, we always have drug problem, but it's time for the new ones to change. 171 00:17:22.080 --> 00:17:25.500 Or even those ones, let's change the message. You just have to paint on... 172 00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:28.500 You're not going to change the paint, but the message. Write it down. 173 00:17:30.620 --> 00:17:34.940 And if they're going to leave those murals there, let's change those... 174 00:17:34.940 --> 00:17:36.360 How do you call it? 175 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:43.100 The message, every couple of years, they go out and let's go there and erase this and put something there. 176 00:17:44.860 --> 00:17:47.700 I mean, you have to respect the artist, the message. 177 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:57.280 But the message of 10 years ago, 15, 20 years ago, I mean, it's not going to serve the purpose. 178 00:17:57.320 --> 00:18:00.040 They're going to start writing down. They're going to tore down one down. 179 00:18:01.080 --> 00:18:07.500 If they call us because they're going to tore down the building, I say, I agree. 180 00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:13.840 Because that means that he don't want to go to Vietnam. Vietnam is over. 181 00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:20.240 That's what I mean, that they don't want to go to serve in the army. 182 00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:24.620 But you don't have to go because it's volunteer now. No one's going to take you if you don't want to go. 183 00:18:24.860 --> 00:18:28.480 So the message there is going to have to change. 184 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:32.640 Because the neighborhood is changing. I mean, the society is changing. 185 00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:39.420 But I believe they care because they don't do anything to damage the painting. 186 00:18:44.420 --> 00:18:49.860 Yes, because it's simple. 187 00:18:50.900 --> 00:18:57.880 But if you start painting too much like the housing and the drugs and the car, 188 00:18:59.320 --> 00:19:04.560 I believe it's an accident or something. There is a car, you know, like in an accident. 189 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:07.920 You put too many in one painting. 190 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:14.420 You know, you're putting too much information. You want to grab one or two. 191 00:19:15.520 --> 00:19:23.460 And I believe that the message has to be for us to make sure that we all see the same thing. 192 00:19:24.600 --> 00:19:29.640 Because it's like when you see one of the big ones in the museums, those abstract paintings. 193 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:37.780 They're crazy saying that that means their interpretation is different. 194 00:19:38.780 --> 00:19:41.120 And I'm talking about people that know about art. 195 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:46.760 What about this one? This is another painting. 196 00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:58.780 This one is more like a... This is very simple because it's more like tourists. 197 00:20:00.520 --> 00:20:01.320 Even though... 198 00:20:01.320 --> 00:20:06.680 When I came here, that's what I noticed. 199 00:20:09.040 --> 00:20:15.240 Especially I came from this place. This paint, I came from my west. 200 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:26.760 Yeah, this one here, especially in this one, the one with the... It's a border of the art. 201 00:20:28.080 --> 00:20:29.940 That's what I saw when I came here. 202 00:20:30.360 --> 00:20:36.580 And in my case, I'm from the west side of Puerto Rico, which is nearby. 203 00:20:37.560 --> 00:20:39.160 You see the color, you see the contrast. 204 00:20:41.340 --> 00:20:44.400 And that's... I love this one, this type of painting. 205 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:49.400 Because those are realistic. Those are, you know... 206 00:20:49.980 --> 00:20:53.120 But the contrast. 207 00:20:53.140 --> 00:20:56.020 Does it look like your island? Does it look like what you remember of Puerto Rico? 208 00:20:56.020 --> 00:21:02.400 Yeah, yeah. That was an article yesterday on... I believe it was on the paper or... 209 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.660 I read it somewhere. The Paraguay, the Caribbean. 210 00:21:08.760 --> 00:21:15.400 What we all want to believe there, what we just go there to visit, but we write there's the need there. 211 00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:20.000 We never go there to stay. 212 00:21:21.380 --> 00:21:25.040 Even though we love the place because the colors, it's like we change. 213 00:21:25.060 --> 00:21:29.840 We come here and we forget about people, that other people have, you know, problems. 214 00:21:31.340 --> 00:21:32.800 And we already time up? 215 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:34.480 Yeah. 216 00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:36.120 That was it. Okay, yeah. 217 00:21:36.120 --> 00:21:37.360 Let me have one more. 218 00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:44.060 What other questions about the music? 219 00:21:52.700 --> 00:21:54.880 But those murals, that's what I like, the color. 220 00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:57.900 I love the color because you don't see color around. 221 00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:03.660 It's like, just go to it. Just go to one of those and you see the color. 222 00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:12.780 And probably, who knows, probably that's the reason they don't do anything to write on those murals. 223 00:22:13.360 --> 00:22:15.760 I'm talking about the gangs, the kids. 224 00:22:17.180 --> 00:22:19.500 Probably because they don't see color, not even in their house. 225 00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:24.260 And color changes the mood of people, how you feel. 226 00:22:25.180 --> 00:22:29.340 It's like when you dress well, you feel different. 227 00:22:29.520 --> 00:22:34.880 Even though you may have the same problems, and you see a color, bright color or something. 228 00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:37.520 Only one thing, one flower, something changed. 229 00:22:38.520 --> 00:22:42.940 And probably they're on the street all day seeing those same building, the gray color of the building. 230 00:22:43.820 --> 00:22:46.020 Same porches, smoking the same color. 231 00:22:46.600 --> 00:22:53.640 When they see some of those colors, it's like, I don't know, they see something because they stay there for years. 232 00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:58.340 They may do something, they may write something on it, but it's not much. 233 00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:03.940 It's like they're not that dumb. They know what they mean. 234 00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:10.580 And that's one of the reasons why they have to be simplified. 235 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:14.380 Even though we're supposed to be getting smarter day after day, 236 00:23:15.040 --> 00:23:20.480 but probably because of the drug, you have to make sure you get that message across. 237 00:23:21.620 --> 00:23:32.540 Because anyone, and I'm out there, and I know a great number of kids and adults are using cocaine. 238 00:23:33.320 --> 00:23:34.720 And I mean numbers. 239 00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:50.460 That's probably the reason you see this government spending so much against, you know, 240 00:23:50.460 --> 00:23:52.620 And we're going to have to start reaching those people. 241 00:23:52.800 --> 00:24:01.480 But using the same way we always do, and don't give up, you know, giving up the need. 242 00:24:01.580 --> 00:24:08.360 We still have the need for education, houses, heard. 243 00:24:09.360 --> 00:24:11.100 But there's another problem now. 244 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:13.440 Drugs. 245 00:24:14.760 --> 00:24:17.100 I mean, before they used to smoke pot. 246 00:24:17.860 --> 00:24:18.540 That was it. 247 00:24:21.260 --> 00:24:24.240 But now I know there's numbers using it. 248 00:24:24.260 --> 00:24:31.580 So we have to be more, and I know that we're not going to change anything, 249 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:34.460 because we're not going to go there and change the murals. 250 00:24:34.500 --> 00:24:35.940 We're not going to go and change the paint. 251 00:24:37.220 --> 00:24:42.660 But if this work can reach some of those people that do that work, 252 00:24:44.780 --> 00:24:47.640 I would like them to see that they're going to have to be more, 253 00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:55.900 they're going to have to come to their, be more realistic, simplify themselves. 254 00:24:57.400 --> 00:25:03.680 I don't know if the artists want to be creative, like, I want to do this different, 255 00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:06.600 or I want to be, I don't know how they work. 256 00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:12.940 I don't know if it is like a singer that they want to keep getting up, up, up, up, 257 00:25:12.940 --> 00:25:14.060 and make more money. 258 00:25:14.060 --> 00:25:17.220 And the crazier they paint, it's like the better they get. 259 00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:20.860 See, I don't want to see this in murals. 260 00:25:21.280 --> 00:25:28.560 I want to see them to keep themselves, instead of putting so much information in some of them, 261 00:25:28.580 --> 00:25:32.000 like I said before, people are on drugs. 262 00:25:32.280 --> 00:25:36.700 And we use those, you get crazy, you get more high, you know, 263 00:25:36.700 --> 00:25:40.380 and you see so many colors, so many paintings, those are beautiful work. 264 00:25:41.800 --> 00:25:43.220 But they're going to have to simplify. 265 00:25:43.220 --> 00:25:46.380 Let's see if we can reach the people. 266 00:25:50.360 --> 00:25:55.120 And let's, I would like to see them getting out of the ghettos, 267 00:25:55.860 --> 00:25:58.120 and move that, their message across. 268 00:26:00.520 --> 00:26:05.580 Because their message, believe me, the same people, you see, we all see the murals, 269 00:26:05.600 --> 00:26:10.580 the same people that live there, but I'm sure it will change if we can get that message across. 270 00:26:10.580 --> 00:26:18.580 Even the copy, the same copy, probably that's not possible because it's supposed to be authentic, 271 00:26:19.420 --> 00:26:21.300 not copies, or you know, I don't know. 272 00:26:22.600 --> 00:26:24.560 But if we can duplicate it. 273 00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:28.300 Duplicate it with photographs. 274 00:26:29.340 --> 00:26:29.340 275 00:26:29.380 --> 00:26:30.040 That's fair. 276 00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:31.260 This, mm-hmm. 277 00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:36.220 Let's see, let me just show you, this one's just called migration of the people. 278 00:26:37.580 --> 00:26:43.400 Yeah, this is the type that I, when I came from Puerto Rico, I saw a lot. 279 00:26:45.700 --> 00:26:50.340 Okay, that was, this one represents mostly the movement of Puerto Rican independence. 280 00:26:51.320 --> 00:26:55.220 And I used to be part of that, I used to participate with the movement. 281 00:26:58.280 --> 00:27:00.220 I used to be everywhere with them. 282 00:27:00.220 --> 00:27:11.140 I mean, I used to, I used to call anti-American things, free Puerto Rico, free this and free that. 283 00:27:12.080 --> 00:27:15.940 And I still would like to see who knows my country, independence. 284 00:27:17.100 --> 00:27:20.180 But at the same time, I had to be realistic. 285 00:27:21.380 --> 00:27:25.120 In Puerto Rico, only 5% of the people want the independence. 286 00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:37.120 And the movement on independence in Puerto Rico never reached more than 5%. 287 00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:44.540 So I respect their view, I respect their ideas. 288 00:27:45.220 --> 00:27:46.960 And I'm not saying that I want to stay hood. 289 00:27:47.220 --> 00:27:48.460 I just want to grow. 290 00:27:50.380 --> 00:27:56.200 I don't know any other way, because I was born in the American way. 291 00:27:57.240 --> 00:27:58.820 We've been part for 80 years. 292 00:28:00.700 --> 00:28:08.200 So this type of work is beautiful work, and it's nice to see it. 293 00:28:09.980 --> 00:28:11.780 But they create problems. 294 00:28:11.780 --> 00:28:14.240 When they first put this one up, I used to go to Tully. 295 00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:21.620 And I used to cut classes just to follow these guys. 296 00:28:22.380 --> 00:28:27.200 I used to fight against the management from the school. 297 00:28:27.980 --> 00:28:29.880 At that time, there was something going on. 298 00:28:29.900 --> 00:28:33.560 They were trying to come up to put someone Latino to run the school. 299 00:28:33.560 --> 00:28:43.560 And at that time, now I realize that that was not the place to be with this type of... 300 00:28:45.740 --> 00:28:52.560 It wasn't, because they keep putting this... 301 00:28:53.240 --> 00:28:58.260 They used to have more, a lot more of this by Tully High School. 302 00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:03.540 Most of those people used to have the same independent movement, Puerto Rico Independent, Independent, Independent. 303 00:29:06.540 --> 00:29:10.260 But when you go to Puerto Rico, you don't see... 304 00:29:12.540 --> 00:29:20.840 I don't think we'll be better by being independent, even though I can tell you a hundred reasons why we'll be better. 305 00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:25.640 But you have to be realistic. 306 00:29:28.260 --> 00:29:32.540 And this type of work, I don't think will help us. 307 00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:33.500 Not more. 308 00:29:34.600 --> 00:29:37.380 It's like one or two, okay. 309 00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:41.260 Because we have to keep remembering... 310 00:29:44.780 --> 00:29:53.180 We have to let the kids know their background, where they come from, their history. 311 00:29:55.220 --> 00:30:06.760 But if they come here and they're having problems like I do, that I need to learn English, I need to move ahead, I want to move ahead. 312 00:30:07.100 --> 00:30:11.460 I don't want someone telling me that moving ahead here is fighting for my independence. 313 00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:15.140 I need to move forward here. 314 00:30:18.360 --> 00:30:21.960 And that was one of my problems that I joined most of this movement. 315 00:30:23.180 --> 00:30:27.240 And it's beautiful because you're surrounded by people that you learn from them. 316 00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:33.860 And I told you about this some before, that there was too many of these. 317 00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:41.620 And you see people, someone... how do you call that? When they put someone to kill, he will be killed. 318 00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:43.380 To be assassinated? 319 00:30:43.580 --> 00:30:45.700 Yeah, these are political, mostly political. 320 00:30:46.860 --> 00:30:51.160 But there was too many around the school at that time. 321 00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:53.760 And I'm sure people used to walk by. 322 00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:58.180 Probably people would say that happened in Cuba or in China. 323 00:30:59.260 --> 00:31:03.160 They were trying to say that that happened when the Americans came, they killed the Puerto Ricans. 324 00:31:03.460 --> 00:31:09.440 But at that time, I said that we had to reflect the need of the people who live in Chicago. 325 00:31:12.660 --> 00:31:18.340 Don't put a mural here with the problem of Russians in Russia. 326 00:31:19.460 --> 00:31:20.800 It's not going to solve me. 327 00:31:21.060 --> 00:31:27.200 Now you can put one where the majority of the Russians live in Chicago. 328 00:31:27.540 --> 00:31:32.320 That will solve the purpose, their need, their community. 329 00:31:34.120 --> 00:31:37.700 But mine, you have to reflect my need in Chicago. 330 00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:42.340 So that's how I see it. 331 00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:48.900 And they keep fighting against the system instead of move. 332 00:31:50.680 --> 00:31:57.020 For some of these artists, I know that they are... it's like when you see the Mexican government. 333 00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:01.920 Always against us, but always asking for us. 334 00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:06.300 You know, anything that we do, we run. 335 00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:13.120 But uncle, cousin, we need some money, you know. 336 00:32:13.460 --> 00:32:15.940 And you get to a point that a lot of times they're right. 337 00:32:17.600 --> 00:32:24.520 Because when I go there, you read the paper and the story is different, totally different from the United States. 338 00:32:24.940 --> 00:32:26.380 And I like that. 339 00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:30.580 Because I don't believe everything I read on the paper here. 340 00:32:30.980 --> 00:32:33.280 I know that we have done so many things bad. 341 00:32:34.020 --> 00:32:38.720 But I'm not going to get up in the morning thinking about the bad thing of this country. 342 00:32:40.700 --> 00:32:42.080 Something had to be positive. 343 00:32:43.260 --> 00:32:48.240 And we used to live by division, like Augusta Boulevard and California. 344 00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:53.300 And I don't know. 345 00:32:53.660 --> 00:32:58.060 I was happy, my brother, my parents used to go to work, and we used to struggle. 346 00:32:58.800 --> 00:33:00.400 Nowadays, we all live around here. 347 00:33:00.740 --> 00:33:03.880 All my brothers, they own houses around here within a block. 348 00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:07.160 And we're looking for something else. 349 00:33:08.760 --> 00:33:14.480 And like I said before, when there's the Puerto Rican parade, I'm the first one who'll be there. 350 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:21.000 And if they need money to help someone and we've done any money...