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I don't know why, but I get used to it.

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Well, the murals are very colorful, and I was wondering if you could talk a bit about

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that.

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Do you think that it's sort of an urge of Hispanics to make the neighborhood more colorful?

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I mean, what are your thoughts on the color?

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No, I like the colors.

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I would like to see more dimension into it.

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I realize that we're talking about flat, and we're talking about wall, but I would like

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to see more dimension.

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In the painting, if they're going to paint a bucket, why don't you stick one there?

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Why don't you glue one there?

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I mean, not only flat paint, but I would like to see create more.

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Instead of painting the garbage, why don't you grab one garbage and nail it to the wall

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there?

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One.

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And it changes things around so they will call the attention to the people.

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It's a way to, because it gets to a point where you pass by it then every day, and you

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get used to it.

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You get used to see it.

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So it's time for those artists to create, to add more, to call for people to pay more

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attention.

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Because it's like, I believe that's what happens to newspapers.

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Newspapers, the people, they need to come up with different ideas, and you see how they

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advertise on television, how their paper is going to change.

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More color into it.

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They're going to add more into it.

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And the same thing, in a way, these people, these artists, they're going to have to change

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in order to call the attention.

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You're competing, even though you're not competing for money.

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You're competing for viewers.

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You're competing for people.

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It's like we have two newspapers here.

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They keep competing.

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Same news, because it's nothing different.

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Something happens, you can buy any paper and you're going to read the same thing.

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But they prefer you to buy the paper instead of buying the other paper.

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So they have to come up with something to call your attention.

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And now that we have so many cable, registration, people are painting those murals, those paintings,

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they're going to have to create something.

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I know that they're working without money, but they have to be a little more creative.

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This is, we're going into another century.

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We're going into, it's time for a change.

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And you see the change.

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You see the graffiti.

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Those are not graffiti.

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Those are art, in a way.

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Those kids that are doing those graffiti, it's not like when we used to do it.

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When we used to do it, we used to put down, I love Maria, and the teacher is this and that.

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You don't see that anymore.

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You see how they spend their time doing what they're doing, those graffitis.

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Those guys there, they go at midnight or the time that they go with a few cans of spray,

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different colors.

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Before we used to do only one market.

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Now they are, so in a way, I believe that in a way they're doing something different than

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the people that are painting those murals, those paintings.

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They're doing something, and they are telling us, we're here now.

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Probably because they want to work with these artists.

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They want to be part of them, but they're telling us something.

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There are times that I don't know what they're saying because the way they write,

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the way they put the sign.

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But I know that the symbol means something.

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I don't know the symbol, what that means.

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Probably those are games or...

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But when I see one, I say, I would like to talk to that kid.

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Probably I can get him to talk to go to college and probably go to Columbia College.

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I wish there would be money because

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those guys, they don't need to finish high school to go to art school.

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I don't know, probably you as a professor or probably you won't agree, but some of those kids,

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they don't need to finish their high school.

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They're drop out already.

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So probably you can get them and put them into art,

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and I'm sure you're going to get a lot of them out of Gantz.

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And I believe the painting on the wall is going to have to change in order to call the attention

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of the people because the need is different.

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I don't know if the need is different, but I believe that we're going to something or we're

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moving ahead.

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We're fighting more.

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We are getting to

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get to the point where we're learning more.

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We are realizing that we had to organize in order to survive,

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that we're not going to keep accusing people of doing things against us.

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So they're going to have to change in order to reach us.

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I know what I mean when I see their painting.

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I know what they're trying to say, but there are more groups of people coming into the city

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right now, like different ethnic groups, even from South America,

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Central America, they're coming in and they're mixing with us.

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They're coming to our community.

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So now we're going to start reaching to those people.

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But by painting faces of Fidel Castro continuously or Che Guevara continuously,

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it's not going to solve our problems.

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We need to get more.

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There was a need in the 60s to paint those faces there.

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You don't have to paint the whole face of Fidel Castro for us to know

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that it's Fidel Castro.

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I'm saying Fidel Castro because I don't remember.

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But even if it is one of the big people in the world,

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we don't need to use all their faces continuously because it's become political.

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You will know that they're from the left, and they're not fighting to help us.

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They're fighting to get control.

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That's what I see in some of those murals there.

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They're people on the left.

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I mean, they're socialists, but they don't know what that means.

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They love Fidel Castro, and they don't know the reason why they love Fidel Castro.

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And everything that this country does is wrong.

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But they don't analyze the problem.

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They don't analyze.

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And they're going to have to change.

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It's time to move.

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It's time to...

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It's like the black people.

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They're moving ahead.

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They're continuously growing.

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They keep asking for more.

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They deserve more.

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They have to be equal.

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But I don't think that they have to be teaching their kids continuously

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that everything that happens to them is because they are black.

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And we as...

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What I'm talking about, Latinos.

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I don't think we should not do the same thing.

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We have to move forward.

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That's the reason that even if we're going to have to create dimension on the painting

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that we use by adding, be realistic.

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There are times that we can use the garbage can and put it right there.

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And we can put a gate.

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Grab a gate and don't paint the gate.

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Let's put it there.

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Let's create a dimension or something.

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But to tell people something.

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I mean, be more creative in the way that we had to change the story.

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No more about what happened in the 60s.

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You can still see a group of people like Anglos.

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They're still behind Arbus Presley.

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They go after him.

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They're crying.

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He's alive.

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They're crying.

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And you see people in the 60s, the way they dress.

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They...

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I'm not talking about people in the 40s and the 50s.

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They're not.

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They still...

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They still live in the 60s.

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The way they dress.

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They keep singing the same song.

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Don't realize that we're singing something else now.

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It's like I remember when I was 15.

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And when I listen to one of those records from the Jackson 5.

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But believe me, I won't put Jackson 5 all day long.

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So we as a community, we as a neighborhood are going to have to change.

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Even the way we paint.

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The way we photograph.

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The way we do things.

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Going to have to change because we're changing.

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And the painting is going to have to bring a bit more realistic

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You see a lot of times when they put those murals there,

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they are not reaching the young people.

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That they are the one they have to reach.

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They're painting for us.

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For people within 30 years old, 35 years old.

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Because my son, he's born here.

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He's 17.

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And so is the son of my nephew, he died in the 20s.

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It can be...

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You can keep putting those paintings of Fidel Castro.

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You can keep putting those pictures of the 60s, the revolution.

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You're not reaching them.

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It's okay to put a few and to teach history.

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We have to all learn.

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We have to know where we come from.

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We came from this country.

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But there's another problem now.

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We talk about drugs.

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We talk about this.

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We better reflect that in there.

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And in order to reach that, we have to change the way they paint.

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We have to create more color.

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In a way, it had to be more fantasy.

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We had to put it there.

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We had to...

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Because this is Chicago.

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In Mexico, we can go back to the revolution.

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We can put one in each corner.

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Because they're starting that in the school, the revolution.

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Every time they have their own problems, the president just had to do...

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To tell them to remember the Mexican Revolution.

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People are happy.

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They're hungry.

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But they're telling them to remember the revolution.

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They keep...

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But I believe we had...

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Those artists are going to have to change the way they paint.

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They're going to have to...

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In order to reach more people, we're competing.

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I don't know.

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Probably a lot of people say that my view is out.

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But I believe we're competing.

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There are people at the same time that you're painting a wall.

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There are people passing fliers.

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Telling us that that's garbage.

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When I walk to one of those paintings, I would like to stop every day, every time I pass by.

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Because there had to be a message there every time I pass by.

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And it would be nice to even take some of my relatives when they come to a tour.

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But they're going to...

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I believe a little change won't...

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Because we're moving to a new century.

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Well, beyond just the technique, what kind of messages do you think should be coming out of

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those murals to talk to your son versus older people?

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Okay.

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I believe like drugs.

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There are problems.

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Problems that are happening right now.

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Psychological problems.

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They go through changes.

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But their changes don't mean that they're always political changes.

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It's like when I first went to school, when I finished high school, that I was getting ready to go to

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Northeastern or Columbia College.

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I was trying to get into Northeastern.

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But there was a movement there, mostly Puerto Ricans, about their independence.

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And that was one of my problems that I started joining.

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Even though when I was going to Columbia, I spent more time wasting my time.

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Because I know my people and I try to keep up with the history of my country.

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But there was a few people that now that I'm old, that I'm 35 right now, I realized that I waste

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so much time because I didn't have anyone to help.

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The people that were painting those walls, they were telling me that the system don't work.

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That anti-American continuously.

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There was a group of people, the same people that are painting the walls.

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Getting money from the government and always criticizing the government.

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I mean, their time is like in the 60s.

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The American people, I would say the majority of the people was

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against the Vietnam War, what was happening there.

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But that was at that time.

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Time changed and these people are not changing.

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And I believe they're going to have to change the message in order to reach out.

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The only thing right now I believe they have to change is the drugs.

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Probably sex.

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All the things that we're talking about in the papers.

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Because the papers are saying no to drugs.

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Television are saying no to drugs.

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But you don't see those in murals.

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You only see revolutions.

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You only see struggle by the workers.

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Yeah, there's a lot of things going on.

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But I want them to reach more people, more kids.

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So there don't have to be a dropout.

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But every time you see, well, I haven't been around lately.

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A couple of years.

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I don't know if they have changed.

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To the one that I see around right now.

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If they're trying to reach my parents, probably my parents never finished high school.

251
00:15:59.640 --> 00:16:01.280
And they're not going to go back to school now.

252
00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:04.120
They have to work every day in order to support myself.

253
00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:07.020
And like the rest of the family.

254
00:16:08.020 --> 00:16:13.820
My father worked, when I came here, my mother used to work, my father used to work eight hours.

255
00:16:13.920 --> 00:16:16.400
And if they offered an overtime, they would take it.

256
00:16:17.680 --> 00:16:21.400
So there was no time to tell my father to go and learn English.

257
00:16:23.780 --> 00:16:27.060
He never learned the Spanish, probably.

258
00:16:27.980 --> 00:16:30.300
And I put on a sample of a group of people.

259
00:16:30.640 --> 00:16:31.380
That's what happened.

260
00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:39.560
And people said that the illegal islands, mostly Mexican, that they had to go and learn English.

261
00:16:40.300 --> 00:16:41.380
But they don't know Spanish.

262
00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:44.680
They haven't finished their grammar school.

263
00:16:47.340 --> 00:16:52.180
But you have to tell them, and if they go and learn English, like I do,

264
00:16:54.700 --> 00:16:57.680
are you going to offer them a better job or are they going to keep washing dishes?

265
00:16:59.160 --> 00:17:00.180
So you see the need.

266
00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:03.900
We had to tell them to learn, but at the same time, we're going to have to keep them helping.

267
00:17:05.360 --> 00:17:08.380
Their need is have change.

268
00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:13.700
And because we're talking about the painting, I believe they're going to have to reach

269
00:17:13.700 --> 00:17:18.700
the young people because they really need to.

270
00:17:19.040 --> 00:17:22.040
Even the Latinos, let's put the message in English.

271
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:24.600
Yeah.

272
00:17:25.340 --> 00:17:26.720
In order to reach them.

273
00:17:27.360 --> 00:17:28.540
Because they don't pay attention.

274
00:17:28.540 --> 00:17:30.340
They like the painting, but it's in Spanish.

275
00:17:34.120 --> 00:17:39.940
And so we're not doing anything by, we need to put that message in English or bilingual.

276
00:17:42.760 --> 00:17:43.780
So they will get the message.

277
00:17:43.820 --> 00:17:44.740
They will read.

278
00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:48.920
But when they try to read, you know, they laugh.

279
00:17:50.580 --> 00:17:54.940
And when they laugh, the whole thing is gone.

280
00:17:54.940 --> 00:17:58.840
So you need to leave that message there.

281
00:18:01.140 --> 00:18:02.380
And I don't know if they're doing it.

282
00:18:02.380 --> 00:18:03.020
I haven't seen it.

283
00:18:04.560 --> 00:18:08.100
But I'm sick and tired of revolutions.

284
00:18:09.260 --> 00:18:11.940
Mexico, when you go to Mexico, they don't talk about the revolutions.

285
00:18:12.600 --> 00:18:16.160
When you go to Puerto Rico, you don't see the independent movement there.

286
00:18:18.300 --> 00:18:18.920
It's there.

287
00:18:19.320 --> 00:18:23.520
It's nothing more proud of a person to be and to feel independent.

288
00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:28.060
It's like the Americans, they know that they're independent.

289
00:18:29.560 --> 00:18:36.180
We all, but I don't know if they keep putting the revolution, the independent,

290
00:18:36.280 --> 00:18:37.520
the revolution in the painting.

291
00:18:38.080 --> 00:18:39.320
They're not serving the community.

292
00:18:41.540 --> 00:18:43.880
They're not serving, they're not doing anything.

293
00:18:45.540 --> 00:18:47.060
Just take a look around.

294
00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:51.880
Go by Hertz and Western, you see one painting at the,

295
00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:56.180
painting or killing the, probably the mestizos or you go the other way,

296
00:18:56.260 --> 00:18:58.720
you see the American killing the others.

297
00:19:01.120 --> 00:19:03.580
Then you see the gang killing each other.

298
00:19:03.800 --> 00:19:05.480
Why don't we change things around?

299
00:19:07.340 --> 00:19:11.340
Let's put another message, put another message into those paintings.

300
00:19:14.580 --> 00:19:19.000
But the people that are doing the painting, I don't know.

301
00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:25.300
I believe they're, they're always been on the left, but they're trying to change.

302
00:19:25.500 --> 00:19:27.080
They're trying that you have to be realistic.

303
00:19:29.940 --> 00:19:34.080
They're trying that you have to realize that in, even in a communist country,

304
00:19:34.900 --> 00:19:36.880
all the things that they do are not bad.

305
00:19:38.320 --> 00:19:45.560
They have to be doing something good when people, when they compete, they win.

306
00:19:46.120 --> 00:19:52.320
They go everywhere and they, they're doing the best they can for their country.

307
00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:54.140
Same thing here.

308
00:19:55.100 --> 00:19:56.720
All the things that we do are not.

309
00:19:59.300 --> 00:20:03.860
But I believe this, they had to, they had to change.

310
00:20:04.320 --> 00:20:07.360
I don't know, probably you see more than me,

311
00:20:08.180 --> 00:20:15.440
but I believe they had to change the message in order to reach the young people.

312
00:20:16.620 --> 00:20:26.280
How much do you think the murals now and in the past were actually aimed at people outside the community?

313
00:20:26.500 --> 00:20:28.560
They were messages like to the Anglos.

314
00:20:28.860 --> 00:20:32.080
And how much do you think they were really just for the community?

315
00:20:34.180 --> 00:20:41.760
I would say the majority was to the community because the Anglos that will see it,

316
00:20:41.760 --> 00:20:48.080
a lot of them, I don't know the reasons, they don't even know our history.

317
00:20:48.320 --> 00:20:50.340
They don't even care about it.

318
00:20:51.240 --> 00:21:00.380
Well, that was a survey done in the United States asking people about where Amala or Mexico was.

319
00:21:00.820 --> 00:21:02.180
They didn't know.

320
00:21:04.140 --> 00:21:10.440
And by you putting those murals,

321
00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:11.960
that was for the community.

322
00:21:12.100 --> 00:21:18.440
I would say that that was, but the way I see it, at that time they were reaching people.

323
00:21:20.080 --> 00:21:21.240
But they're not doing it now.

324
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:26.460
They're going to have to, probably they are doing it.

325
00:21:26.460 --> 00:21:29.800
I'm not sure that I bring here my point of view.

326
00:21:30.500 --> 00:21:36.240
I will not say that I'm talking about in that I represent my people.

327
00:21:39.220 --> 00:21:44.640
I believe they tried to reach more the community then.

328
00:21:47.380 --> 00:21:54.880
When I say Anglos, I mean middle class or upper class because we have poverty

329
00:21:55.600 --> 00:21:57.520
even in the Anglo community.

330
00:21:58.100 --> 00:22:02.180
People that stay with us living in that way, poverty or whatever,

331
00:22:02.300 --> 00:22:05.760
is because they need to, they don't have no open doors, they don't have no place to go.

332
00:22:06.580 --> 00:22:10.000
But those that are middle class or upper class, they are not going to drive by

333
00:22:11.700 --> 00:22:14.020
limo and on the division or they're not going to.

334
00:22:15.220 --> 00:22:18.640
Or they are investors that are going to try to turn out the building and put condos or,

335
00:22:21.460 --> 00:22:24.980
but I believe they were trying to reach our community.

336
00:22:28.260 --> 00:22:35.460
When you first were here, you must have been, well right at the age of high school

337
00:22:35.460 --> 00:22:41.320
and right at the age of the gangs and stuff like that, did you feel a pull in that direction?

338
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:46.060
Were there messages in the murals that tried to help you sort that out?

339
00:22:46.080 --> 00:22:46.820
No, I joined.

340
00:22:47.220 --> 00:22:50.160
I joined one of them even though I never went out with them.

341
00:22:50.760 --> 00:22:52.380
I just, I thought like clubs.

342
00:22:54.780 --> 00:22:56.160
I was at a club.

343
00:22:58.120 --> 00:23:02.500
When I hear about gangs in Puerto Rico, in the United States,

344
00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:05.020
for me that was like in the movie, like Arca-Pon.

345
00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:08.380
But when you say about kids, it's like a club.

346
00:23:09.460 --> 00:23:16.980
But when I realized they used to go out and fight, I used to use excuses,

347
00:23:18.100 --> 00:23:20.700
but I used to communicate with them in Spanish.

348
00:23:21.260 --> 00:23:27.180
My Spanish was much more, I mean it was sophisticated to them.

349
00:23:28.080 --> 00:23:30.780
Even I just came from high school in Puerto Rico

350
00:23:30.780 --> 00:23:33.920
and I used to use words that they didn't know what that means.

351
00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:36.480
They used to listen to me.

352
00:23:37.260 --> 00:23:38.620
It's like, you can do it.

353
00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:41.080
A lot of times you just go and talk to a kid.

354
00:23:43.360 --> 00:23:52.280
And if you go to our neighborhood now and you talk in a slam way, they won't respect you.

355
00:23:54.320 --> 00:23:58.680
I mean you have to be friendly, but if you start throwing them,

356
00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:01.820
I'm not talking about high level university talk,

357
00:24:02.380 --> 00:24:06.800
but don't talk the way they talk either.

358
00:24:08.620 --> 00:24:10.100
They listen to you.

359
00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:11.760
I believe they do.

360
00:24:13.040 --> 00:24:17.700
You have to talk in a friendly way and they, in a couple of minutes,

361
00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:21.080
or probably after a conversation, they try to use the same word you're using.

362
00:24:23.580 --> 00:24:26.720
They don't want to, you know, they want you to respect them too.

363
00:24:27.360 --> 00:24:32.340
And I used to, when I joined that gang, I used to talk to them.

364
00:24:32.340 --> 00:24:35.160
I used to set up how we're going to attack the others.

365
00:24:35.580 --> 00:24:40.140
And I used to, I thought that I was a soldier, like the command or something.

366
00:24:41.320 --> 00:24:44.680
But some of them were bad kids.

367
00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:49.040
I mean they used to, they can cut someone's throat like, oh.

368
00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:51.360
But at that time I was afraid.

369
00:24:52.540 --> 00:24:53.460
I was afraid.

370
00:24:53.460 --> 00:24:58.060
I just went out with them one night and they see what they were doing.

371
00:25:00.040 --> 00:25:01.520
I didn't know how to fight.

372
00:25:02.560 --> 00:25:03.320
I used to run.

373
00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:06.500
I used to run from where I lived because the Italians were,

374
00:25:07.040 --> 00:25:13.560
I, when we first came here, we used to live by Ohio Street and Damon Avenue.

375
00:25:14.580 --> 00:25:16.360
There was a lot of Italians there.

376
00:25:17.540 --> 00:25:20.600
And the Puerto Rican was only probably two or three blacks.

377
00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:25.320
I used to run from that place to Tule High School every morning.

378
00:25:26.100 --> 00:25:28.260
And if someone would ask, I would say that I was jogging.

379
00:25:28.360 --> 00:25:28.900
I was running.

380
00:25:29.120 --> 00:25:29.920
I was afraid.

381
00:25:33.100 --> 00:25:37.020
And I hear people talking about the black people, the black people, the black people.

382
00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:39.480
And he said, well, what's wrong with that man?

383
00:25:39.720 --> 00:25:42.780
I used to talk to myself, what was wrong with that person?

384
00:25:45.280 --> 00:25:49.860
And that's probably a couple of months after or a couple of, probably.

385
00:25:49.860 --> 00:25:51.160
Yeah, I would say a couple of months.

386
00:25:51.180 --> 00:25:52.180
I was talking about the black people.

387
00:25:52.180 --> 00:25:53.220
They haven't done anything to me.

388
00:25:55.040 --> 00:25:59.200
But in order to be with certain people, it's like, or talking about my own people.

389
00:26:01.280 --> 00:26:05.320
And that will happen right now within my people.

390
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:09.940
They talk against each other, but they don't talk to each other.

391
00:26:11.320 --> 00:26:13.280
How can we do better?

392
00:26:13.280 --> 00:26:19.780
Because that's not a way that we came.

393
00:26:20.340 --> 00:26:25.200
I mean, we came from a closeness within the family.

394
00:26:26.760 --> 00:26:28.420
That's my cousin's cousin.

395
00:26:29.080 --> 00:26:30.060
That's family.

396
00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:34.020
Don't matter if it is your fifth cousin from your cousin.

397
00:26:35.660 --> 00:26:39.780
But here, you only recognize that your family is your son and your wife.

398
00:26:40.580 --> 00:26:45.360
I mean, if your mother and father come, I feel I had the time.

399
00:26:46.760 --> 00:26:48.580
And I see that change.

400
00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:56.080
When I came here, that's what I saw.

401
00:26:56.360 --> 00:26:58.880
I used to know my father said this, my mother said that.

402
00:26:59.420 --> 00:27:02.320
They used to tell me, don't listen to her.

403
00:27:06.360 --> 00:27:08.900
But I joined again.

404
00:27:08.900 --> 00:27:15.660
But those kids weren't doing anything ordinary.

405
00:27:15.980 --> 00:27:16.260
Out of...

406
00:27:19.180 --> 00:27:20.680
They just used to fight.

407
00:27:20.740 --> 00:27:22.880
They used to go out after the Italians.

408
00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:25.940
And the Italians used to come after them.

409
00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:29.860
And that was like when you see the West Side story, the same thing.

410
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:40.840
So, but I joined then and then I went to...

411
00:27:40.840 --> 00:27:43.720
I joined the Latin Kings at that time.

412
00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:45.320
But I never went with them.

413
00:27:45.560 --> 00:27:48.120
It's that they told that you joined them.

414
00:27:49.120 --> 00:27:51.880
They don't care if you come or you don't.

415
00:27:52.020 --> 00:27:53.260
Either you're part of them.

416
00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:55.840
It's like organization.

417
00:27:56.080 --> 00:27:57.100
They have to have the names.

418
00:27:58.760 --> 00:27:59.920
You go to the meeting, you don't even know your name.

419
00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:02.620
You see five people and they're supposed to have 50.

420
00:28:04.080 --> 00:28:07.580
And they like to give their name like they're part of their organization.

421
00:28:07.760 --> 00:28:09.340
It's like you feel proud of yourself.

422
00:28:12.620 --> 00:28:15.500
But that's how I try to help my son now.

423
00:28:15.560 --> 00:28:17.780
I don't know what he does when he leaves the house.

424
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:22.040
But when he asked me, I said no.

425
00:28:22.300 --> 00:28:24.140
Me being in the game, no way.

426
00:28:24.700 --> 00:28:30.940
I would not tell him that I started smoking when I was 16 or 17.

427
00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:34.740
You see, I believe that we had to grow.

428
00:28:34.900 --> 00:28:37.080
We had to, even had to lie.

429
00:28:37.780 --> 00:28:40.600
But I'm not going to tell my son that I was doing...

430
00:28:40.600 --> 00:28:42.880
Even I don't think that I was doing something bad.

431
00:28:43.060 --> 00:28:47.000
But my father told me that he was the best student in school.

432
00:28:47.800 --> 00:28:50.360
That he used to be...

433
00:28:50.360 --> 00:28:52.820
And now that I know what I said, he was lying.

434
00:28:54.900 --> 00:28:55.300
Yeah.

435
00:28:57.960 --> 00:28:59.940
So anyway, I had to be...

436
00:28:59.940 --> 00:29:01.100
To tell my son the same thing.

437
00:29:01.260 --> 00:29:03.820
There are times that I tell him, I don't know how I come out with that one.

438
00:29:06.360 --> 00:29:06.740
Okay.

439
00:29:07.840 --> 00:29:09.280
But that's how I...

440
00:29:09.280 --> 00:29:12.060
There are times that even when he sees me smoking,

441
00:29:12.900 --> 00:29:14.420
I said, do you see me smoking in the house?

442
00:29:15.280 --> 00:29:17.040
I smoke in the house, I smoke outside.

443
00:29:18.060 --> 00:29:20.700
And I smoke five, probably three cigarettes a day.

444
00:29:21.660 --> 00:29:22.780
A pack of cigarettes would last me...

445
00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:24.440
A week.

446
00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:25.780
And it's true.

447
00:29:26.860 --> 00:29:27.760
He said, I saw you smoking.

448
00:29:28.700 --> 00:29:29.620
I said, but I'm quitting.

449
00:29:30.700 --> 00:29:32.200
I'm not quitting, but...

450
00:29:32.200 --> 00:29:33.700
You see, I had to try to stop him...

451
00:29:35.800 --> 00:29:41.300
To do what I believe is wrong, which I had to stop too, in order for him not to do it.

452
00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:44.640
But there are habits that you can't change anytime.

453
00:29:48.120 --> 00:29:48.920
But I...

454
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:50.660
Like, we're talking about those paintings.

455
00:29:50.660 --> 00:29:51.700
It's...

456
00:29:51.700 --> 00:29:54.880
It's time to tell people something else.

457
00:29:57.500 --> 00:29:59.020
Let's change the tomb.

458
00:30:01.940 --> 00:30:03.880
Even though I enjoy seeing...

459
00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:07.460
When I see those signatures, when I see those murals, I go up.

460
00:30:07.600 --> 00:30:10.460
I look down and I see who painted, how many people.

461
00:30:11.120 --> 00:30:16.460
And I say, God, so many people work on this painting more than to put a house up,

462
00:30:16.580 --> 00:30:18.320
to construct a building or something.

463
00:30:18.980 --> 00:30:20.280
You see names, a lot of names.

464
00:30:20.280 --> 00:30:22.840
Because they use the community to help them.

465
00:30:24.600 --> 00:30:26.820
And how they struggle to put that paint there.

466
00:30:27.700 --> 00:30:29.860
And that's the reason I would like to see them around.

467
00:30:31.020 --> 00:30:32.060
They represent us.

468
00:30:32.280 --> 00:30:34.140
We're always struggling to survive.

469
00:30:34.360 --> 00:30:34.540
We're always...

470
00:30:37.260 --> 00:30:42.220
But I keep insisting that change had to...

471
00:30:43.060 --> 00:30:45.980
Susan told me that...

472
00:30:45.980 --> 00:30:47.740
When you used to photograph the murals,

473
00:30:47.740 --> 00:30:49.940
you liked to have children in the pictures.

474
00:30:50.100 --> 00:30:50.880
Why was that?

475
00:30:51.380 --> 00:30:52.180
Yes, I used to.

476
00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:54.540
Yeah, because I...

477
00:30:55.540 --> 00:30:56.780
They are there.

478
00:30:58.500 --> 00:31:00.900
You see, there are people that when they're going to try to take a picture,

479
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:02.480
they start telling people, move.

480
00:31:02.520 --> 00:31:03.540
Can you move to the side?

481
00:31:05.820 --> 00:31:07.680
And they want to take a picture from the house.

482
00:31:07.820 --> 00:31:09.480
And that person lives there.

483
00:31:10.120 --> 00:31:15.720
Why don't you see that kid on the stairs and take a picture of the kid too?

484
00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:19.380
If in their time, you just want to...

485
00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:21.220
You just have to make...

486
00:31:21.220 --> 00:31:22.080
Put a calendar.

487
00:31:22.820 --> 00:31:25.560
And you need that space to put the title or something.

488
00:31:25.820 --> 00:31:26.220
So, you know.

489
00:31:29.560 --> 00:31:30.040
But...

490
00:31:30.040 --> 00:31:31.000
When you see those...

491
00:31:31.700 --> 00:31:34.840
I used to take those pictures and I used to see that they're...

492
00:31:35.660 --> 00:31:36.660
That's how they live.

493
00:31:37.900 --> 00:31:40.120
I used to bring them and I used to...

494
00:31:40.120 --> 00:31:41.440
When I see those...

495
00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:45.400
When they opened the fire pumps in the summertime,

496
00:31:45.900 --> 00:31:48.020
I used to take...

497
00:31:48.020 --> 00:31:49.080
Take pictures of them.

498
00:31:50.140 --> 00:31:51.320
Getting in, getting out.

499
00:31:53.760 --> 00:31:58.740
And if you see the garbage around, I told them to stand by.

500
00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:04.520
And some of the kids used to tell me, no, but not like the garbage can.

501
00:32:04.820 --> 00:32:06.900
I used to tell them, why don't you pick it up?

502
00:32:08.540 --> 00:32:11.220
Clean that side so I can take the picture because that's the way.

503
00:32:12.140 --> 00:32:13.740
Some of the kids used to clean it.

504
00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:15.640
Some of them used to tell, clean it yourself.

505
00:32:18.020 --> 00:32:23.600
But you see, I believe that we have to bring people to participate.

506
00:32:23.700 --> 00:32:25.680
We have to bring the people within the community.

507
00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:31.800
Some of the artists that paint those things, those murals, they never run.

508
00:32:33.100 --> 00:32:34.760
They come, they go.

509
00:32:37.140 --> 00:32:40.280
And I like when I see a club...

510
00:32:41.670 --> 00:32:45.870
When they close the street and they celebrate something,

511
00:32:46.650 --> 00:32:50.250
they bring a group of people that they're doing it because

512
00:32:50.810 --> 00:32:57.630
a lot of people, they don't know, they don't have the way to entertain themselves.

513
00:32:59.630 --> 00:33:05.470
It's like when I saw, when they opened the beach on the home board,

514
00:33:07.810 --> 00:33:13.670
I see it as something positive because a lot of people that live around there,

515
00:33:13.670 --> 00:33:15.870
they don't have the way to even get to Lake Michigan.

516
00:33:21.150 --> 00:33:21.630
So...