WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.900 --> 00:00:08.520 We're rolling there. 2 00:00:08.980 --> 00:00:10.980 Scene one, take one, roll four. 3 00:00:11.500 --> 00:00:12.880 Let's take it back. 4 00:00:15.900 --> 00:00:21.180 You could just briefly explain what you're doing here. 5 00:00:21.840 --> 00:00:25.340 Well like I said this is a field house, okay. 6 00:00:25.900 --> 00:00:28.540 Like I said before, being inside the field house, 7 00:00:28.740 --> 00:00:29.920 they are doing something different. 8 00:00:30.500 --> 00:00:31.520 But I don't know anything different, 9 00:00:31.680 --> 00:00:33.800 so we do the same thing we've always been doing. 10 00:00:34.420 --> 00:00:39.580 These were the plumbers, landscaping, 11 00:00:40.760 --> 00:00:42.820 painters, and the carpenters. 12 00:00:44.380 --> 00:00:45.540 What sort of work do you do? 13 00:00:46.080 --> 00:00:48.580 I'm in landscaping, landscaping maintenance. 14 00:00:49.760 --> 00:00:53.240 And the other guy helping me is a painter, right. 15 00:00:53.980 --> 00:00:55.780 Can we stop for a moment? 16 00:00:56.340 --> 00:00:56.340 17 00:00:59.300 --> 00:01:00.900 Scene one, take two. 18 00:01:03.580 --> 00:01:05.500 You paint murals all around the city. 19 00:01:05.800 --> 00:01:10.320 Who do you usually think of as who your murals are for? 20 00:01:10.740 --> 00:01:11.500 Who do you paint for? 21 00:01:11.520 --> 00:01:15.000 Well most of the murals are community. 22 00:01:16.620 --> 00:01:19.160 So most of the murals are for the community or whoever 23 00:01:19.160 --> 00:01:20.980 around that certain community. 24 00:01:21.780 --> 00:01:24.420 It's in the case of the one here. 25 00:01:24.740 --> 00:01:28.320 Since it's in the park, of course the people that are 26 00:01:28.320 --> 00:01:31.140 in the park working inside the park are the ones 27 00:01:31.140 --> 00:01:33.120 that will view it, you know. 28 00:01:33.660 --> 00:01:35.820 And of course the ones that also participated 29 00:01:36.500 --> 00:01:38.560 in helping paint it. 30 00:01:39.540 --> 00:01:43.620 You've said that murals are more often for young people, 31 00:01:43.800 --> 00:01:45.140 that you're influencing young people. 32 00:01:45.180 --> 00:01:46.380 Can you tell us about that? 33 00:01:47.700 --> 00:01:50.340 Well if it's, if the ones we do in the schools 34 00:01:50.340 --> 00:01:51.740 in some of the neighborhoods, 35 00:01:52.360 --> 00:01:57.480 they are for the influencing the younger people, yeah. 36 00:01:57.540 --> 00:01:59.840 Except for all the other ones that still got a lot 37 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:01.920 of time ahead of them, see. 38 00:02:03.140 --> 00:02:05.900 And at the same time the muralist, 39 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:10.860 as opposed to an art teacher, 40 00:02:11.800 --> 00:02:16.660 he would be considered with sort of outside looking in 41 00:02:18.180 --> 00:02:20.660 and to look for validation for his art, 42 00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:22.120 he looks to the art world. 43 00:02:22.780 --> 00:02:25.460 And in our case, we don't do that. 44 00:02:25.460 --> 00:02:26.840 We look toward the community. 45 00:02:26.920 --> 00:02:29.420 If they like it, it's all right with us, see. 46 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:32.180 Me and my fellow murals too. 47 00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:35.660 What sort of messages are you interested 48 00:02:35.660 --> 00:02:37.320 in conveying to young people? 49 00:02:38.180 --> 00:02:41.400 Well a lot of the messages include the ones we've done 50 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:45.380 before, you know, anti-drug, anti-gang, you know. 51 00:02:47.540 --> 00:02:49.860 And like I said, most of them all have to do 52 00:02:49.860 --> 00:02:53.720 with the neighborhood and to a large extent are political. 53 00:02:54.860 --> 00:02:57.800 As this one here, you know, recently it might be political 54 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:01.260 because it's got the plumbers union behind them 55 00:03:01.260 --> 00:03:04.360 and it's got the landscaper's union, painter's unions. 56 00:03:05.180 --> 00:03:08.260 So it has to be political one way or the other. 57 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:13.000 You said that all murals are political. 58 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:14.700 Can you, or all artists are political. 59 00:03:14.700 --> 00:03:18.380 Can you maybe restate that for us and explain it? 60 00:03:18.880 --> 00:03:22.620 Well for the simple reason that art is always connected. 61 00:03:23.860 --> 00:03:25.820 Oh, we need you to say all artists are political 62 00:03:25.820 --> 00:03:27.960 and then explain it so that the audience knows 63 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:28.840 what we're talking about. 64 00:03:29.880 --> 00:03:31.340 All art is political. 65 00:03:32.820 --> 00:03:36.140 For the reason being that anything that's painted 66 00:03:36.140 --> 00:03:39.140 has got something to do with the state or the city 67 00:03:39.140 --> 00:03:45.280 or the local offices in the neighborhood. 68 00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:47.740 Like in the case of this one, 69 00:03:48.480 --> 00:03:52.800 it's inside the park district territory 70 00:03:53.340 --> 00:03:56.160 and the park district was just political, you know. 71 00:03:58.620 --> 00:04:01.380 Is that a long-term tradition 72 00:04:01.380 --> 00:04:03.700 of the political nature of mural art? 73 00:04:04.100 --> 00:04:06.060 It's always been like that, yeah. 74 00:04:06.060 --> 00:04:09.460 For instance, in the 30s, the murals would paint murals 75 00:04:09.460 --> 00:04:12.640 dealing with the depression, the strikes 76 00:04:13.460 --> 00:04:14.680 that people were going through. 77 00:04:15.620 --> 00:04:20.300 And now people still paint about political events 78 00:04:20.300 --> 00:04:25.240 that are happening around the world or community-wise. 79 00:04:26.760 --> 00:04:29.820 How do you pick a theme for a specific community? 80 00:04:30.260 --> 00:04:31.220 How does that come about? 81 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:34.880 Well, each community or area calls 82 00:04:34.880 --> 00:04:36.980 for a certain thing. 83 00:04:37.400 --> 00:04:41.920 For instance, in this case, it called for workers 84 00:04:42.440 --> 00:04:43.420 that work in the park. 85 00:04:44.320 --> 00:04:47.280 If I had been in a different area or a school, 86 00:04:47.500 --> 00:04:49.640 it would have called for, you know, 87 00:04:49.760 --> 00:04:51.860 something that had to do with history, teaching, 88 00:04:52.980 --> 00:04:55.020 students, teachers, parents. 89 00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:57.480 This one deals with workers, you know, 90 00:04:57.700 --> 00:04:58.760 with landscaping workers. 91 00:04:59.460 --> 00:05:03.700 Who all is involved in deciding the theme of the mural? 92 00:05:05.300 --> 00:05:10.500 Well, like in this case, when my friend Bernie brought it up, 93 00:05:10.860 --> 00:05:14.580 he suggested we do the plumbers, 94 00:05:14.880 --> 00:05:16.700 landscapers, and carpenters. 95 00:05:17.300 --> 00:05:20.760 So he suggested the idea, it was okay with me, 96 00:05:20.780 --> 00:05:22.000 so we went ahead and did it, you know. 97 00:05:22.380 --> 00:05:25.640 It's not that the artist usually pops up his own idea, 98 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:26.160 99 00:05:26.760 --> 00:05:28.440 Usually somebody has suggestions, 100 00:05:28.520 --> 00:05:32.440 and the artist takes it from there and refines it. 101 00:05:32.960 --> 00:05:34.820 What about if it's a community group? 102 00:05:35.400 --> 00:05:36.480 How would that work? 103 00:05:38.280 --> 00:05:39.580 Well, in the case of a community group, 104 00:05:39.900 --> 00:05:42.400 like this summer we're gonna do a mural 105 00:05:42.400 --> 00:05:44.900 with teenagers that do graffiti. 106 00:05:46.220 --> 00:05:48.080 So of course, I'm gonna meet with them, 107 00:05:48.820 --> 00:05:50.060 and we're gonna decide what it is 108 00:05:50.060 --> 00:05:51.580 that they wanna put up there, see? 109 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:55.920 Because the graffiti is something they're using now 110 00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:58.460 to an extent that they're using doing fine art with it now. 111 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:01.500 It's not like they spray it on the wall now. 112 00:06:01.500 --> 00:06:05.720 They got a way of making it look like fine art. 113 00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:08.620 So we're gonna get together with them, 114 00:06:09.620 --> 00:06:10.940 and I'm gonna discuss the theme, 115 00:06:11.940 --> 00:06:14.780 and then we'll decide what it is they're gonna put, 116 00:06:15.840 --> 00:06:19.440 what it is I'm gonna put, but it'll work together. 117 00:06:20.440 --> 00:06:22.260 We're thinking of using silhouettes, you know, 118 00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:25.480 like standing somebody in front of a projector 119 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:29.040 with a spray can, projecting the silhouette on the wall, 120 00:06:29.960 --> 00:06:32.340 photographing it, and then projecting it on the wall. 121 00:06:34.900 --> 00:06:37.800 But that we'll decide when we get together with the kids. 122 00:06:39.020 --> 00:06:42.920 What do you hope when you get kids working on it like that? 123 00:06:43.960 --> 00:06:45.300 What kind of effects, how do you hope 124 00:06:45.300 --> 00:06:46.840 it will affect them to be involved? 125 00:06:47.580 --> 00:06:49.660 Well, for one thing, like in LA, 126 00:06:50.060 --> 00:06:51.600 in New York where they're doing graffiti, 127 00:06:52.200 --> 00:06:54.880 the idea they have, or well, they can do graffiti 128 00:06:55.420 --> 00:06:57.100 pretty advanced, you know. 129 00:06:57.100 --> 00:07:00.520 The ideas that they put across are very sexist, 130 00:07:00.620 --> 00:07:06.060 or very negative, but the idea of the muralist 131 00:07:06.060 --> 00:07:08.340 is if he's gonna do something, you know, 132 00:07:08.340 --> 00:07:09.480 and he's already doing it right, 133 00:07:09.560 --> 00:07:11.800 might as well do something that fits 134 00:07:12.380 --> 00:07:15.200 into a more positive light. 135 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:19.860 Who pays for it, you know, like in the community? 136 00:07:20.220 --> 00:07:21.040 How does it happen? 137 00:07:21.660 --> 00:07:25.780 Well, like in my case, when I've been doing the murals 138 00:07:25.780 --> 00:07:28.060 in the communities, Chicago also Fine Arts, 139 00:07:28.100 --> 00:07:31.980 I work for them, and they usually commission me 140 00:07:31.980 --> 00:07:33.720 to do the murals, you know. 141 00:07:35.100 --> 00:07:37.040 Do you have to get a grant about it? 142 00:07:37.060 --> 00:07:39.280 Yeah, it's a grant that they give me every year. 143 00:07:39.820 --> 00:07:44.120 Or if it's a private, the guy owns a business, 144 00:07:44.380 --> 00:07:46.260 then he'll pay direct, you know. 145 00:07:49.640 --> 00:07:52.660 So what are the themes that are most important to you 146 00:07:52.660 --> 00:07:55.800 if you can choose, what do you like to paint? 147 00:07:57.120 --> 00:07:59.720 Well, as opposed to like, for instance, canvas painting, 148 00:08:00.100 --> 00:08:02.540 it's a different thing, you can do whatever you want 149 00:08:02.540 --> 00:08:04.100 doing canvases, see. 150 00:08:04.940 --> 00:08:06.440 But if it goes out into the public, 151 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:11.100 then it's gotta be something that hits a certain issue, 152 00:08:11.900 --> 00:08:13.980 or something that's happening in the community, you know. 153 00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:16.900 Do you have certain messages 154 00:08:16.900 --> 00:08:18.900 that you feel very strongly about? 155 00:08:19.740 --> 00:08:21.580 Well, for instance, like the one we did last time 156 00:08:21.580 --> 00:08:23.880 called We Will Stop the Storm, 157 00:08:24.420 --> 00:08:27.080 the message was we will stop the storm, you know, 158 00:08:28.520 --> 00:08:29.920 like talking about the youth, 159 00:08:30.960 --> 00:08:33.800 mostly that in 12 more years, 160 00:08:33.900 --> 00:08:35.440 we'll be into the 21st century, 161 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:40.880 and it will be up to them to stop the storm, you know, 162 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:44.240 because they were the most daring, you know, 163 00:08:44.280 --> 00:08:47.500 as opposed to people up in the 50s who are saddling, 164 00:08:48.300 --> 00:08:49.740 they wanna just be comfortable. 165 00:08:49.740 --> 00:08:52.700 The kids are still daring and doing things, you know. 166 00:08:53.900 --> 00:08:55.820 Is that why you do murals, 167 00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:58.640 or I guess I should say why do you paint murals? 168 00:08:58.700 --> 00:09:00.560 Why do you personally do it? 169 00:09:01.280 --> 00:09:04.400 Well, the reason for the murals is to put across my ideas 170 00:09:05.660 --> 00:09:08.180 in combination with their ideas, 171 00:09:08.640 --> 00:09:10.760 and make a strong political statement, 172 00:09:11.520 --> 00:09:14.160 the stronger, the strongest possible, you know. 173 00:09:15.700 --> 00:09:17.660 What about colors and design elements? 174 00:09:17.660 --> 00:09:19.900 How does that play into it when you're creating? 175 00:09:20.460 --> 00:09:22.900 Well, like in the case of this one, 176 00:09:23.780 --> 00:09:24.760 and the time is limited, 177 00:09:25.020 --> 00:09:27.260 we're trying to figure out how to use color 178 00:09:27.260 --> 00:09:29.120 and take up a lot of space. 179 00:09:29.780 --> 00:09:32.140 As opposed to being very technical 180 00:09:32.140 --> 00:09:33.820 about shading and stuff like that, 181 00:09:34.460 --> 00:09:37.680 we take large areas and use a lot of color, 182 00:09:37.920 --> 00:09:40.120 because we only have a couple of weeks to do it in. 183 00:09:40.940 --> 00:09:43.140 What do particular colors mean to you? 184 00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:46.540 Well, the colors are, the lighter colors, 185 00:09:47.660 --> 00:09:50.300 for instance, make the room look whiter, 186 00:09:50.580 --> 00:09:52.840 darker colors make it look smaller, 187 00:09:53.880 --> 00:09:57.160 dark lines like that one looks closer this way, 188 00:09:58.300 --> 00:10:00.440 a lighter color looks farther away, you know. 189 00:10:01.420 --> 00:10:04.660 That's the reason for using colors inside a building, 190 00:10:05.860 --> 00:10:06.960 and with limited time. 191 00:10:07.520 --> 00:10:08.520 Now, if you got a lot of time, 192 00:10:08.560 --> 00:10:10.000 then you can blend in a lot of colors 193 00:10:10.540 --> 00:10:12.900 and take all the time you want, you know. 194 00:10:13.740 --> 00:10:18.620 Are there, what are the symbolic or psychological 195 00:10:18.620 --> 00:10:21.300 or human messages in the colors? 196 00:10:23.500 --> 00:10:27.620 Well, like in the colors, it's warm and dark colors, right? 197 00:10:28.420 --> 00:10:31.840 So we're using dark colors and light colors 198 00:10:33.340 --> 00:10:34.640 to project certain feeling, 199 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:37.500 but in the case of this one, 200 00:10:37.580 --> 00:10:40.300 we're using colors that are familiar here in the park, 201 00:10:40.300 --> 00:10:42.660 see like yellow and the green. 202 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:45.640 Those are the colors that are familiar here 203 00:10:45.640 --> 00:10:46.700 in this area here. 204 00:10:48.540 --> 00:10:50.880 You began painting murals in San Antonio 205 00:10:50.880 --> 00:10:52.620 or became interested there? 206 00:10:53.060 --> 00:10:55.720 No, I started painting when I was here in 64. 207 00:10:56.700 --> 00:10:59.120 Were you influenced by things you saw in San Antonio? 208 00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:02.920 Not with the murals, no. 209 00:11:03.340 --> 00:11:04.960 I was influenced mostly by the stuff 210 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:06.660 that they were doing here when I got here, see. 211 00:11:07.220 --> 00:11:09.020 Like a lot of the artists were doing political work. 212 00:11:09.700 --> 00:11:12.120 So I was influenced by them, you know. 213 00:11:13.160 --> 00:11:15.340 But you talked about the heroes of the Alamo 214 00:11:15.340 --> 00:11:17.060 and that you felt they weren't representing. 215 00:11:17.160 --> 00:11:18.440 Right, huh? Okay. 216 00:11:18.680 --> 00:11:20.260 Yeah, I was gonna kinda get into a political.