WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.540 --> 00:00:11.180 Okay, Margaret, do you want to just say your name so we can hear out the sound levels? 2 00:00:12.200 --> 00:00:13.340 Margaret Keneally. 3 00:00:15.380 --> 00:00:16.480 How do you spell that? 4 00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:18.880 Margaret? 5 00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:20.280 Keneally. 6 00:00:20.660 --> 00:00:21.160 How do you spell it? 7 00:00:22.500 --> 00:00:25.440 C-O-N-N-E-E-L-Y. 8 00:00:25.560 --> 00:00:26.140 Keneally. 9 00:00:27.100 --> 00:00:27.820 Thank you. 10 00:00:32.820 --> 00:00:34.920 Margaret, why don't you? 11 00:00:35.340 --> 00:00:36.780 Can I keep this or not? 12 00:00:37.040 --> 00:00:37.340 Oh, sure. 13 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:37.980 Yeah. 14 00:00:38.120 --> 00:00:38.800 We don't see that. 15 00:00:38.820 --> 00:00:39.480 Look at Nancy. 16 00:00:39.760 --> 00:00:40.500 We don't see it. 17 00:00:40.620 --> 00:00:41.340 You can move a little closer. 18 00:00:41.380 --> 00:00:41.820 Oh. 19 00:00:42.440 --> 00:00:42.440 20 00:00:43.660 --> 00:00:44.340 There you go. 21 00:00:45.320 --> 00:00:46.080 All right. 22 00:00:48.360 --> 00:00:56.960 You know, if you could, why don't you tell me about when you first got into the film 23 00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:00.860 business and what you were doing, what the rest of your life was at the time when you 24 00:01:00.860 --> 00:01:03.680 first got into the film. 25 00:01:03.680 --> 00:01:04.160 You know what? 26 00:01:04.160 --> 00:01:05.660 I can't hear you too good, Nancy. 27 00:01:06.020 --> 00:01:08.340 When did you first get into film? 28 00:01:08.700 --> 00:01:12.240 When did you first begin getting interested in film? 29 00:01:20.360 --> 00:01:21.320 By moot. 30 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:23.580 Do you remember what year it was? 31 00:01:25.260 --> 00:01:26.380 About 1949. 32 00:01:27.860 --> 00:01:28.180 All right. 33 00:01:28.420 --> 00:01:28.980 1949. 34 00:01:29.260 --> 00:01:30.360 What were the circumstances? 35 00:01:31.480 --> 00:01:32.840 What were you doing at the time? 36 00:01:35.320 --> 00:01:42.240 Well, I was walking along the street to come to a movie store where I could buy a movie 37 00:01:42.240 --> 00:01:42.620 camera. 38 00:01:43.220 --> 00:01:46.900 So I went into this Bell and Howell place. 39 00:01:47.660 --> 00:01:51.200 I think it was Montclair. 40 00:01:53.160 --> 00:02:01.960 And I got a $25 Firestone 8mm camera. 41 00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:11.720 And as I was waiting for it to be wrapped up, I happened to see a Metro movie club newsletter. 42 00:02:11.720 --> 00:02:14.400 And I asked the girl if I could have one. 43 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:17.480 She says, oh yes, by all means, you'll learn a lot from that. 44 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:25.000 So I looked at it and I wanted to come to that movie club. 45 00:02:25.500 --> 00:02:29.140 So I hurried home and got a babysitter for my two boys. 46 00:02:30.160 --> 00:02:37.160 And luckily, my husband worked evenings and that was when I would go to the club. 47 00:02:38.380 --> 00:02:41.140 And I did that for about six months. 48 00:02:41.700 --> 00:02:44.460 Margaret, why were you interested in the club? 49 00:02:44.720 --> 00:02:47.100 Why were you going to get a camera in the first place? 50 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:48.560 Do you remember? 51 00:02:49.420 --> 00:02:50.320 Oh yes. 52 00:02:50.920 --> 00:02:58.580 When I was very young, like about fifteen, I happened to have a boyfriend who invited 53 00:02:58.580 --> 00:03:01.960 me over to his home on a Sunday afternoon. 54 00:03:02.220 --> 00:03:04.580 And the mother and the father were, oh they were so nice. 55 00:03:04.580 --> 00:03:17.740 The father had a library that was put by three different walls just all full of books. 56 00:03:18.500 --> 00:03:22.280 And he said to me, is there anything you'd like to know more about that you don't? 57 00:03:22.600 --> 00:03:24.460 I said, oh yes, lots of things. 58 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:25.420 And he said, what? 59 00:03:25.500 --> 00:03:28.920 For instance, I said, well I'd like to know more about tigers. 60 00:03:29.700 --> 00:03:33.820 But most of all, I'd like to know more about a movie camera. 61 00:03:33.820 --> 00:03:35.500 And he says, you would? 62 00:03:36.340 --> 00:03:37.480 I said, yes I would. 63 00:03:38.040 --> 00:03:46.320 So after we had dinner, he said, how would you like to go to the Museum of Science and Industry? 64 00:03:47.220 --> 00:03:51.240 I said, I don't know, but it sounds pretty good. 65 00:03:51.940 --> 00:03:53.360 And he said, well we're going to go there. 66 00:03:53.460 --> 00:03:55.140 And we went to the museum. 67 00:03:55.580 --> 00:04:02.420 The father, the mother, and the boy, his name was Jack, and his sister's name was Dorothy. 68 00:04:02.420 --> 00:04:04.200 And we went to the museum. 69 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:12.980 And mostly, right away, he took me into a Paris exhibit where it had all different kinds of movement of cameras. 70 00:04:13.600 --> 00:04:16.540 And I was just utterly fascinated by it. 71 00:04:17.400 --> 00:04:21.700 And then Jack's father said, okay, we go home now. 72 00:04:21.700 --> 00:04:22.620 And we went home. 73 00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:27.280 And he said, you stay a little later because the sun is out. 74 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:30.760 And I didn't know what he wanted the sun to be out for. 75 00:04:30.760 --> 00:04:34.960 But he said, he came down and he had a camera. 76 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:36.840 And he had a tripod. 77 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:41.300 I didn't know why he put it on the tripod, that he didn't want the camera to move. 78 00:04:41.940 --> 00:04:43.620 Well, he said, okay. 79 00:04:43.820 --> 00:04:45.940 And he lined all his family up. 80 00:04:46.080 --> 00:04:52.820 And he said, now you take the camera, and you look through here, and then you push the button. 81 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:57.460 And I thought, oh, I must be taking a picture. 82 00:04:57.900 --> 00:04:59.400 And so I took a couple of pictures. 83 00:04:59.960 --> 00:05:03.740 Then they started to walk around and come frontwards this way. 84 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:10.680 As they come to the camera, I could see the picture was getting bigger and bigger and bigger. 85 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:13.240 And I said, hey, it better stop. 86 00:05:13.780 --> 00:05:15.820 But they said, no, turn it the other way. 87 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:16.840 And I turned the other way. 88 00:05:16.840 --> 00:05:18.660 They went round and round. 89 00:05:19.820 --> 00:05:25.580 And then after that, he said, well, that's enough for today. 90 00:05:27.060 --> 00:05:30.480 Then I remember I kept thinking about it all the time. 91 00:05:30.620 --> 00:05:33.860 I was wondering when they were going to ask me to come back. 92 00:05:34.340 --> 00:05:35.160 And they did. 93 00:05:35.440 --> 00:05:37.260 And they showed me the films. 94 00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:40.520 And here it was, people moving and doing things. 95 00:05:41.060 --> 00:05:43.160 And it was so much better. 96 00:05:43.260 --> 00:05:44.140 There's a still camera. 97 00:05:44.300 --> 00:05:46.380 I said, boy, that's what I want. 98 00:05:46.420 --> 00:05:49.040 So that was why I was here this day, to buy. 99 00:05:49.620 --> 00:05:52.640 I had my money saved up to buy a movie camera. 100 00:05:52.640 --> 00:05:57.220 And I was going to take movies of my two sons. 101 00:05:58.400 --> 00:06:05.780 And that was about, well, now one of them is 64 and one is 62. 102 00:06:05.880 --> 00:06:07.700 So that was a long time ago. 103 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:13.700 But then I decided with what I found out about the movies. 104 00:06:13.740 --> 00:06:17.520 But now I was going to be in charge of making my own movies. 105 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:23.680 And I wanted to make it so that everybody else would like. 106 00:06:23.980 --> 00:06:24.680 Let me ask you something. 107 00:06:25.200 --> 00:06:29.440 When were you in charge of making your own home movies? 108 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:30.240 No. 109 00:06:32.500 --> 00:06:33.260 Now I am. 110 00:06:33.880 --> 00:06:35.060 When was this? 111 00:06:35.060 --> 00:06:36.820 Was this when you went to get the first film? 112 00:06:36.820 --> 00:06:37.620 To the movie club. 113 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:38.320 Oh, yes. 114 00:06:38.660 --> 00:06:39.760 At the movie club. 115 00:06:42.420 --> 00:06:45.120 Tell me a little bit more about the first, 116 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:47.700 when you bought your first camera. 117 00:06:49.100 --> 00:06:50.960 Well, when I bought my first camera, 118 00:06:52.620 --> 00:06:54.940 I knew what kind of movies I wanted to take. 119 00:06:55.100 --> 00:07:01.660 Because I saw the same kind that was at the Metro movie club. 120 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:06.300 If you have to stop and pause and think about it a little bit, 121 00:07:06.980 --> 00:07:08.460 that's actually better. 122 00:07:09.100 --> 00:07:09.600 Is it? 123 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:10.060 Yeah. 124 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:10.780 Oh, definitely. 125 00:07:11.140 --> 00:07:11.140 126 00:07:11.960 --> 00:07:14.760 We're not looking for you just to say. 127 00:07:14.760 --> 00:07:18.980 So tell me again about the first time 128 00:07:18.980 --> 00:07:20.900 that you went to get your camera. 129 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:22.200 What was going on? 130 00:07:22.220 --> 00:07:23.260 I went to get my film. 131 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:25.720 When you went to get your first camera? 132 00:07:27.460 --> 00:07:34.200 Oh, well, when I first went to get my first camera, 133 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:37.040 oh, wait a minute. 134 00:07:37.200 --> 00:07:38.100 That's OK. 135 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:46.700 You were saying you wanted to shoot your kids. 136 00:07:47.380 --> 00:07:48.360 You wanted to film your kids. 137 00:07:51.080 --> 00:07:53.640 The Metro News that I was looking at 138 00:07:55.140 --> 00:07:57.740 had a program on that Wednesday night. 139 00:07:58.260 --> 00:08:01.580 And it said that Stan Yazbek, who was a friend of mine 140 00:08:01.580 --> 00:08:04.600 that I hadn't seen for many years, 141 00:08:04.620 --> 00:08:05.900 he was putting on the program. 142 00:08:05.900 --> 00:08:10.320 And I just wanted to go so bad that I hurried home, 143 00:08:10.760 --> 00:08:13.300 got a babysitter, and went to the club. 144 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:15.800 And here I saw the kind of film. 145 00:08:16.200 --> 00:08:18.640 It was even better than the one that I 146 00:08:18.640 --> 00:08:21.000 had seen on that Sunday afternoon 147 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:22.840 at my other friend's house. 148 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:29.820 And he had made a story of his little girls and his wife 149 00:08:29.820 --> 00:08:32.360 and his sister. 150 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:38.760 And it was a beautiful make-believe story. 151 00:08:39.380 --> 00:08:40.880 And they had costumes. 152 00:08:41.540 --> 00:08:43.060 And they were acting out. 153 00:08:43.100 --> 00:08:45.060 And I thought, oh, wouldn't that be great? 154 00:08:45.100 --> 00:08:47.460 I have two handsome young sons. 155 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:50.440 And I'm sure they'd like that, too. 156 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:53.520 So I. 157 00:08:53.520 --> 00:08:54.340 Can I ask you something? 158 00:08:54.760 --> 00:08:57.440 Who were the people that, when you first 159 00:08:57.440 --> 00:08:59.860 went to the Metro Club, your first time 160 00:08:59.860 --> 00:09:02.760 you went to the meeting, who were these other people? 161 00:09:03.380 --> 00:09:04.020 Their names? 162 00:09:04.500 --> 00:09:07.360 No, not their names, but were they just? 163 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:14.540 The young people that I had met, the Stanley Yazbek 164 00:09:14.540 --> 00:09:17.480 who was going to put on the program that night 165 00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:21.340 of a story film with his family, these 166 00:09:21.340 --> 00:09:25.620 were the same kids that I went to high school with. 167 00:09:26.060 --> 00:09:27.880 And I was really surprised. 168 00:09:27.880 --> 00:09:30.020 And it was a pleasant surprise when 169 00:09:30.020 --> 00:09:31.960 I saw the kind of film he made. 170 00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:35.300 It was the kind that I would just dream about. 171 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:37.360 So I went home. 172 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:40.060 And on the way home, I was thinking about, 173 00:09:40.940 --> 00:09:45.700 how would I use my boys in a story that they would like, 174 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:47.980 in a story that other people would like, 175 00:09:48.420 --> 00:09:51.500 a story that they would let me show at the Metro Movie Club, 176 00:09:52.020 --> 00:09:54.120 and one that I could enter in contests 177 00:09:54.640 --> 00:09:56.500 and just see how good I was. 178 00:09:56.500 --> 00:09:58.480 Because when you entered in the contest, 179 00:09:58.660 --> 00:10:03.360 you always got a jury seat that told you 180 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:05.980 what you could have done better, what you shouldn't have done, 181 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:06.920 what you should do. 182 00:10:07.280 --> 00:10:09.620 So it really was a good experience 183 00:10:09.620 --> 00:10:15.980 to get a film on the program, and a better one, 184 00:10:16.160 --> 00:10:18.420 when you had it judged as one of the winners. 185 00:10:18.860 --> 00:10:19.940 And that's what I did. 186 00:10:20.100 --> 00:10:25.220 So my first film that I made to show anybody else 187 00:10:25.220 --> 00:10:27.880 was called Safari. 188 00:10:28.800 --> 00:10:32.980 And we had gone to the, I really shot two films. 189 00:10:33.380 --> 00:10:38.600 And the big thing was it had to be inter-edited. 190 00:10:38.760 --> 00:10:43.660 With one film that we shot when we went to the Brookfield Zoo 191 00:10:43.660 --> 00:10:48.760 and met the director, who was most cooperative, 192 00:10:48.760 --> 00:10:56.000 and he sold me about 10 or 12 hats 193 00:10:57.100 --> 00:10:59.580 that the hunters wear when they go on Safari. 194 00:11:00.280 --> 00:11:01.760 And the kids were so delighted. 195 00:11:01.920 --> 00:11:04.100 Everybody wanted to be in it, but we could only 196 00:11:05.060 --> 00:11:08.400 let 10 people, 10 children in. 197 00:11:08.760 --> 00:11:12.400 So I had two of my YASBIC friends, little girls. 198 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:15.500 They were very pretty, and they looked very nice in these hats. 199 00:11:15.500 --> 00:11:20.740 And so then there's a couple of kids 200 00:11:20.740 --> 00:11:25.180 that were in school with John, a couple that were in with Jim, 201 00:11:25.460 --> 00:11:27.500 and then the rest from our neighbors. 202 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:30.000 And everybody wanted to be in. 203 00:11:30.260 --> 00:11:33.280 So we would take them not only for a picnic 204 00:11:33.280 --> 00:11:35.440 and bring them all lunch and everything, 205 00:11:35.620 --> 00:11:39.040 and if we didn't pay them, that's what they got paid in. 206 00:11:40.100 --> 00:11:41.800 And then also their mother and father 207 00:11:41.800 --> 00:11:44.840 got a copy of the film after the film was finished, 208 00:11:44.840 --> 00:11:49.780 which was maybe six or eight months, 209 00:11:50.340 --> 00:11:52.240 because I wanted to get everything in it. 210 00:11:52.420 --> 00:11:57.420 And at that time, even in the big theatrical theaters, 211 00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:00.140 they didn't have sound. 212 00:12:01.500 --> 00:12:03.600 People couldn't talk and make the sound. 213 00:12:03.920 --> 00:12:07.040 They had to make titles, black and white titles, 214 00:12:07.040 --> 00:12:16.500 and in between and say what the stars were saying. 215 00:12:17.880 --> 00:12:19.640 And it took longer to make the titles 216 00:12:19.640 --> 00:12:20.940 than it did to make the film. 217 00:12:21.700 --> 00:12:25.460 But then I would have to take another film. 218 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:28.320 We took another day, and we had to go out 219 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:31.720 in the Forest Preserve, which was close to our home. 220 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:34.760 And we had another picnic in the woods. 221 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:43.180 And then we went shooting with toy guns and toy cameras. 222 00:12:44.260 --> 00:12:46.200 And so first they would try to shoot. 223 00:12:47.660 --> 00:12:53.860 When they would hold up the gun and shoot, 224 00:12:54.380 --> 00:12:58.220 then I would cut and put a line or a couple lines 225 00:12:58.220 --> 00:13:01.000 or something on the other end from the other film. 226 00:13:01.420 --> 00:13:04.220 And then when you come, you see the monkeys 227 00:13:04.220 --> 00:13:06.280 dancing around, see the elephants. 228 00:13:06.780 --> 00:13:17.660 The director had let us take out the baby elephant. 229 00:13:18.460 --> 00:13:20.580 Only one girl was brave enough to want 230 00:13:20.580 --> 00:13:22.320 to get on top of the elephant. 231 00:13:22.940 --> 00:13:24.700 None of the boys wanted to do it. 232 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:28.640 But this girl, she was a pretty forward girl. 233 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:33.260 And today, or many years later, she 234 00:13:33.260 --> 00:13:36.120 became the mayor of Gary, Indiana. 235 00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:39.640 And her name was Sullivan. 236 00:13:40.700 --> 00:13:42.220 What was her first name? 237 00:13:43.520 --> 00:13:43.780 What? 238 00:13:45.500 --> 00:13:46.040 Kathleen? 239 00:13:46.300 --> 00:13:46.300 240 00:13:46.760 --> 00:13:47.740 Let me ask you something. 241 00:13:48.640 --> 00:13:50.880 At that time, when you were making Safari, 242 00:13:51.040 --> 00:13:52.640 did you edit in the camera? 243 00:13:54.280 --> 00:13:57.640 Or did you take your shots and then edit later on? 244 00:13:57.900 --> 00:14:00.240 Oh, no, we edited it. 245 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:03.000 Well, we edited the camera as far as we could. 246 00:14:03.900 --> 00:14:07.720 But the real good editing was done 247 00:14:08.280 --> 00:14:12.320 through a little movie editor and cutting 248 00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:13.720 and intercutting the films. 249 00:14:14.020 --> 00:14:18.460 And also, not only the film that we shot, but the titles. 250 00:14:18.680 --> 00:14:20.660 The titles were pretty important because there 251 00:14:20.660 --> 00:14:22.480 was no narration over. 252 00:14:23.960 --> 00:14:27.100 We had to do the same as the theatrical people. 253 00:14:27.100 --> 00:14:29.840 And I think it was Al Johnson or somebody. 254 00:14:30.400 --> 00:14:36.660 He was the first guy that really put the sound on while he 255 00:14:36.660 --> 00:14:38.120 was acting by singing. 256 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:42.220 But we had to do that with our amateur films, too. 257 00:14:42.280 --> 00:14:44.020 That was one of the first ones. 258 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:50.700 But after that, later on, they had sound on the camera 259 00:14:50.700 --> 00:14:51.860 with magnetic sound. 260 00:14:52.140 --> 00:14:56.060 And once they got that, every one 261 00:14:56.060 --> 00:15:00.080 of my 16-millimeter films, which I had gone to, 262 00:15:00.460 --> 00:15:01.620 I'd become a sixth. 263 00:15:01.620 --> 00:15:04.440 By this time, I had won enough awards 264 00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:10.700 and got enough experience that I had now had a Bollocks camera. 265 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:12.540 And that was the best. 266 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:15.080 Well, OK, let me take you back a little bit. 267 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:18.980 So you made your first film, Safari, for the Metro Club, 268 00:15:19.140 --> 00:15:19.160 right? 269 00:15:19.160 --> 00:15:19.600 Yes. 270 00:15:20.300 --> 00:15:21.740 How did it go over? 271 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:25.640 I first prized in an 8-millimeter class. 272 00:15:26.860 --> 00:15:31.440 Then they had 16-millimeter class and 16-millimeter sound. 273 00:15:31.760 --> 00:15:32.560 Were you surprised? 274 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:34.680 Well, I was surprised. 275 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:38.960 But I tried real hard because I wanted to make sure 276 00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:41.480 I was important in this club. 277 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:43.740 I liked the people. 278 00:15:43.880 --> 00:15:45.120 I liked what they were doing. 279 00:15:45.220 --> 00:15:46.800 I loved what they were doing. 280 00:15:47.740 --> 00:15:50.620 And I wanted to do it as good as they did. 281 00:15:51.860 --> 00:15:53.220 And it was pretty hard. 282 00:15:53.380 --> 00:15:57.240 Some of them, there was one man who was really great. 283 00:15:57.440 --> 00:15:58.380 His name is Carl Fraser. 284 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:02.700 And he was about the best 16-millimeter film. 285 00:16:03.340 --> 00:16:04.880 And he had great stories. 286 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:10.680 And then Stan Yazbek, my young friend from high school, 287 00:16:12.980 --> 00:16:15.480 nobody could touch him with the 8-millimeter. 288 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:20.480 But when I was going to go to 16, to shoot 16-millimeter, 289 00:16:21.140 --> 00:16:23.520 he also wanted to go to 16. 290 00:16:23.920 --> 00:16:25.700 So we both went out together. 291 00:16:26.460 --> 00:16:28.360 It was this time it was about $700 292 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:32.840 for a new projector that would play the sound. 293 00:16:33.580 --> 00:16:41.440 And then all he had to do for the sound was shoot it 294 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:43.860 and turn on the. 295 00:16:43.860 --> 00:16:45.680 You had to have film. 296 00:16:48.020 --> 00:16:51.380 It had a track, the track that would run. 297 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.300 And then here on the other side was another, 298 00:16:55.300 --> 00:16:57.580 a brown magnetic tape. 299 00:16:57.600 --> 00:16:58.480 And that was the sound. 300 00:16:58.560 --> 00:17:03.000 You had to have a magnetic sound tape and a tape reader 301 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:08.160 on your projector as well as your camera. 302 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:11.660 And it was great because you didn't 303 00:17:11.660 --> 00:17:15.520 have to make any more of those titles. 304 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:17.500 Right, right. 305 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:22.380 So you actually wanted to prove yourself with. 306 00:17:22.420 --> 00:17:22.680 Pardon? 307 00:17:22.940 --> 00:17:27.380 You wanted to prove yourself with the Metro Club, right? 308 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:30.300 I wanted to be accepted as a movie maker. 309 00:17:32.500 --> 00:17:34.760 And that was the only way to do it. 310 00:17:35.260 --> 00:17:37.700 Where do you think this came from, this drive 311 00:17:37.700 --> 00:17:38.360 that you had? 312 00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:39.160 The what? 313 00:17:39.260 --> 00:17:40.740 Where do you think this drive came? 314 00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:42.600 Why did you want, where do you think, 315 00:17:42.900 --> 00:17:49.020 why do you think you wanted to excel so much in the movies 316 00:17:49.020 --> 00:17:50.380 with these people? 317 00:17:52.120 --> 00:17:53.340 I'm not sure. 318 00:17:53.700 --> 00:17:54.560 What did you say? 319 00:17:55.320 --> 00:17:56.620 Take this talk this way. 320 00:17:56.800 --> 00:17:58.080 I have an earache. 321 00:17:58.400 --> 00:17:59.040 No, that's OK. 322 00:18:00.500 --> 00:18:04.820 Where do you think this drive came from in you 323 00:18:04.820 --> 00:18:08.980 to excel so much in film? 324 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:13.580 Well, from the first time I saw the people moving, 325 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:17.460 people that I've shot in Jack's father's camera, 326 00:18:18.020 --> 00:18:21.820 the people that I shot, I would see them move and dance 327 00:18:21.820 --> 00:18:22.920 and everything. 328 00:18:24.540 --> 00:18:25.800 And I wanted to do that. 329 00:18:25.820 --> 00:18:27.780 But I thought I could even do better. 330 00:18:27.800 --> 00:18:29.940 I can make a story and then make people 331 00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:31.300 want to look at my film. 332 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:34.600 And the boys will be happy to see how they look. 333 00:18:35.340 --> 00:18:36.700 And they really were. 334 00:18:36.780 --> 00:18:38.060 We would have a party. 335 00:18:38.060 --> 00:18:42.320 And they would come over and we'd have ice cream and cake. 336 00:18:43.840 --> 00:18:45.700 Now the movies go on. 337 00:18:45.840 --> 00:18:47.780 Of course, we always started out with popcorn 338 00:18:47.780 --> 00:18:56.560 because that's what they had in the big theatrical movie 339 00:18:56.560 --> 00:19:00.300 houses, that you buy your popcorn for $0.05, 340 00:19:00.460 --> 00:19:02.320 a big bag like that. 341 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:03.280 Not anymore. 342 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:09.900 OK, so you, Safari, you used title cards. 343 00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:12.920 And eventually, what was your first movie 344 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:14.740 that you shot Meg Sound with? 345 00:19:14.940 --> 00:19:15.560 Do you remember? 346 00:19:15.560 --> 00:19:16.420 This shot what? 347 00:19:16.580 --> 00:19:17.680 That you shot Sound. 348 00:19:18.020 --> 00:19:18.920 What was the first? 349 00:19:19.140 --> 00:19:20.860 The first one I shot Sound. 350 00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:27.700 Yeah, I don't, I remember practicing a lot with Sound 351 00:19:27.700 --> 00:19:31.720 before I would do a movie. 352 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:32.640 In what way? 353 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:35.580 The first movie, I think it was. 354 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:38.180 Margaret, how did you practice? 355 00:19:38.340 --> 00:19:39.780 What do you mean by you practiced? 356 00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:41.260 I would shoot film. 357 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:46.640 I would maybe have my son get up there and sing a little song. 358 00:19:47.340 --> 00:19:48.720 And I'd just see how it worked. 359 00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:53.220 And then somebody doing something. 360 00:19:55.600 --> 00:19:57.060 And animals, animals. 361 00:19:57.320 --> 00:19:58.920 I had kitties. 362 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:00.660 I had Siamese kitties. 363 00:20:00.660 --> 00:20:02.160 And then I had another kitty. 364 00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:05.880 And I made one film with the animals. 365 00:20:06.340 --> 00:20:10.220 And then you have to wait for them to do what you want. 366 00:20:10.540 --> 00:20:12.020 Or you have to trick them into it. 367 00:20:12.260 --> 00:20:17.720 For instance, on one film, I never finished it. 368 00:20:18.500 --> 00:20:21.380 Because I couldn't find one of the films. 369 00:20:22.700 --> 00:20:30.760 Anyhow, I wanted the kitty to walk along the street 370 00:20:30.760 --> 00:20:35.000 and look in the house and see another little kitty. 371 00:20:36.080 --> 00:20:37.600 She had a happy home. 372 00:20:38.020 --> 00:20:42.100 And then you look another one and another group of kitties. 373 00:20:42.180 --> 00:20:44.260 And they had, oh, such a happy home. 374 00:20:44.340 --> 00:20:46.000 And then they had little kitties. 375 00:20:46.080 --> 00:20:47.320 And everybody was happy. 376 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:50.340 But this kitty, my kitty, that was walking along, 377 00:20:50.340 --> 00:20:51.620 and it was snow. 378 00:20:52.220 --> 00:20:57.040 And then there was footprints in the snow, my kitty walking 379 00:20:57.040 --> 00:20:58.100 and looking in. 380 00:20:58.120 --> 00:21:01.180 She's looking for somebody who doesn't have a kitty who 381 00:21:01.180 --> 00:21:02.400 would take her in. 382 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:12.640 So finally, each house seemed to be filled until finally she 383 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:15.400 came to a place in the snow where 384 00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:20.320 there was an outdoor crib for Christmas where they would have 385 00:21:20.320 --> 00:21:22.880 baby Jesus and Joseph and Mary. 386 00:21:23.360 --> 00:21:28.900 And then my little kitty crawled up with it for the footprints 387 00:21:28.900 --> 00:21:31.780 right up to the thing and got into the crib 388 00:21:31.780 --> 00:21:37.520 by the little baby Jesus and put his little head down 389 00:21:37.520 --> 00:21:38.460 and went to sleep. 390 00:21:38.860 --> 00:21:41.040 And the way that I got the kitty to watch, 391 00:21:41.300 --> 00:21:43.800 to walk where I wanted them to walk, 392 00:21:44.220 --> 00:21:46.800 I had a little can of baby shrimps. 393 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:50.300 And you put a shrimp here and a shrimp there and one there. 394 00:21:50.320 --> 00:21:53.540 The kitty would eat the shrimp and walk to the next one, 395 00:21:53.580 --> 00:21:54.220 to the next one. 396 00:21:54.440 --> 00:21:57.460 And I could make my kitty go wherever I wanted 397 00:21:57.460 --> 00:21:58.600 and whatever he did. 398 00:21:59.060 --> 00:22:02.100 And then finally ended up in the little crib. 399 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:07.100 What the ending was that the little kitty put his head down, 400 00:22:07.180 --> 00:22:08.720 went to sleep, and they found the home. 401 00:22:09.980 --> 00:22:11.900 But I always thought that would have been a good one. 402 00:22:12.500 --> 00:22:16.100 And I had the crib scenes all shot and everything. 403 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:23.980 I seem to have lost some of the ones where he was traveling. 404 00:22:24.120 --> 00:22:26.480 And I had some very funny things. 405 00:22:26.560 --> 00:22:29.960 Have him chase the little mouse or chat. 406 00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:31.640 But we never did find out what it was. 407 00:22:31.660 --> 00:22:34.340 We just could see the tail go, rrrrr. 408 00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:38.600 And then my kitty would try to jump for him and get him. 409 00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:41.760 You were probably one of the first animal handlers. 410 00:22:42.180 --> 00:22:42.500 What? 411 00:22:42.500 --> 00:22:46.140 You know, in movies, animal handlers make a lot of money. 412 00:22:46.420 --> 00:22:46.780 Oh, yeah? 413 00:22:46.800 --> 00:22:48.020 It's the same thing you're doing. 414 00:22:48.360 --> 00:22:49.000 Oh, yeah. 415 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:52.540 I always had kitties until about two months ago 416 00:22:52.540 --> 00:22:54.540 when my last kitty died. 417 00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:57.060 But I think that would have been a good one. 418 00:22:58.760 --> 00:23:01.800 The things that won in a contest were 419 00:23:01.800 --> 00:23:05.900 things that were very different than nobody ever had it before. 420 00:23:06.340 --> 00:23:09.780 Now, like that, nobody ever had won like that. 421 00:23:11.320 --> 00:23:16.520 But that was the best way they get to win. 422 00:23:17.260 --> 00:23:20.180 And then the kids, of course, the kids were really, 423 00:23:20.420 --> 00:23:22.880 nobody had the wild animals out. 424 00:23:23.020 --> 00:23:26.020 And they played ring around the rosy with one 425 00:23:26.020 --> 00:23:29.400 of those baby apes. 426 00:23:29.580 --> 00:23:32.200 I don't know what it was, but they got all running around. 427 00:23:33.180 --> 00:23:35.200 And the little baby animals, they 428 00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:38.220 loved to be with the children out of their cages. 429 00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:41.380 And I thought I was very lucky in getting 430 00:23:41.380 --> 00:23:44.020 the cooperation of that director. 431 00:23:44.180 --> 00:23:46.620 And of course, you couldn't do it now. 432 00:23:47.100 --> 00:23:47.100 433 00:23:47.220 --> 00:23:47.760 Yeah. 434 00:23:48.260 --> 00:23:49.520 Well, OK. 435 00:23:49.760 --> 00:23:54.400 So at what point, I know right away 436 00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:57.160 you began getting awards at the Metro Club. 437 00:23:57.160 --> 00:23:58.220 Wait, I can't hear you. 438 00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:01.560 Right away you began getting awards at the Metro Club. 439 00:24:01.560 --> 00:24:01.920 Oh, yeah. 440 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:06.620 For your first film, Safari, you got a lot of awards for that. 441 00:24:06.620 --> 00:24:15.220 When did you start feeling that you were really good, 442 00:24:15.620 --> 00:24:18.160 and that you had control over the craft? 443 00:24:18.560 --> 00:24:19.200 At what point? 444 00:24:19.340 --> 00:24:20.060 Do you remember that? 445 00:24:20.100 --> 00:24:21.080 That I had control. 446 00:24:21.100 --> 00:24:23.100 That you had control over filmmaking, 447 00:24:23.660 --> 00:24:25.000 over making these stories? 448 00:24:25.860 --> 00:24:27.480 Or did you feel like it right away? 449 00:24:27.700 --> 00:24:29.640 Or was it something gradual that? 450 00:24:30.380 --> 00:24:34.320 No, I think I always felt, well, in school, 451 00:24:34.320 --> 00:24:37.480 journalists, even when I was in third grade, 452 00:24:37.660 --> 00:24:38.380 I would win. 453 00:24:38.860 --> 00:24:43.280 When they would have a contest for writing the Christmas 454 00:24:43.280 --> 00:24:46.740 story for third graders up to sixth graders. 455 00:24:47.220 --> 00:24:50.160 And that was when I lived in a little town called West 456 00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:50.980 Liberty, Iowa. 457 00:24:51.520 --> 00:24:54.620 And would you believe that I was a third grader, 458 00:24:54.800 --> 00:24:58.480 and I made a film, and it won. 459 00:24:58.700 --> 00:24:59.920 It was about Christmas. 460 00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:01.500 And Santa Claus is reindeer. 461 00:25:01.780 --> 00:25:09.300 He couldn't carry his sleigh through the sky. 462 00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:12.420 And he didn't know what to do. 463 00:25:12.700 --> 00:25:18.700 But then finally, one of his toy planes 464 00:25:19.840 --> 00:25:25.980 said, Santa Claus, we will take your toys 465 00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:29.020 and deliver them in our airplane. 466 00:25:29.020 --> 00:25:36.780 And I had a lot of scenes in it. 467 00:25:37.800 --> 00:25:39.920 But most of them were toys. 468 00:25:40.760 --> 00:25:45.100 But then I was lucky that I was out one day, 469 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:49.400 and here was a big airplane going through. 470 00:25:49.580 --> 00:25:52.740 And nobody ever saw an airplane back in those days. 471 00:25:53.120 --> 00:25:56.260 When I was in third grade, nobody ever 472 00:25:56.260 --> 00:25:58.320 had an airplane going over their heads. 473 00:25:58.320 --> 00:25:59.800 But this time I did. 474 00:26:00.300 --> 00:26:01.720 And I was real lucky. 475 00:26:02.380 --> 00:26:05.380 I told the teacher I really saw an airplane go over. 476 00:26:06.120 --> 00:26:08.660 And so that's why I made up that story. 477 00:26:10.280 --> 00:26:16.300 And I got the best story for the Christmas play. 478 00:26:16.660 --> 00:26:18.600 I beat out the sixth graders. 479 00:26:19.420 --> 00:26:24.620 And then I made another one about a little tadpole. 480 00:26:24.820 --> 00:26:27.220 I had a little tadpole. 481 00:26:27.220 --> 00:26:29.240 And I used to go down by the brook 482 00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:32.780 and watch little tadpoles and then watch until they finally, 483 00:26:33.740 --> 00:26:35.080 I'd go another day. 484 00:26:35.580 --> 00:26:37.520 And finally, they'd turn into a little frog. 485 00:26:37.520 --> 00:26:40.100 They'd bump and come and become a frog. 486 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:42.760 And I thought that was just amazing. 487 00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:44.800 So I wrote a story. 488 00:26:45.040 --> 00:26:54.320 I wrote a poem that told about how these little frogs come 489 00:26:54.320 --> 00:26:55.740 out of little tadpoles. 490 00:26:55.740 --> 00:27:00.640 Anyhow, my teacher, I had a third grade teacher there. 491 00:27:00.820 --> 00:27:03.560 Her name was Ms. I never forgot it, Ms. Wagner. 492 00:27:04.060 --> 00:27:05.460 She changed my whole life. 493 00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:07.940 But she took my poem and she said, 494 00:27:07.980 --> 00:27:09.420 Margaret, that is very good. 495 00:27:09.840 --> 00:27:13.240 She said, I am going to take it and send it 496 00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:14.580 with your permission. 497 00:27:15.040 --> 00:27:16.160 And gee, I felt important. 498 00:27:16.280 --> 00:27:17.880 The teacher is going to ask my permission 499 00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:20.900 to send it to the Child Life magazine 500 00:27:20.900 --> 00:27:28.920 and enter their contest for their journalist thing, stories 501 00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:31.260 and poems and everything. 502 00:27:32.180 --> 00:27:39.060 And lo and behold, way back when I was eight years old, 503 00:27:39.560 --> 00:27:42.800 that was really something. 504 00:27:43.780 --> 00:27:46.100 They sent me a $5 check. 505 00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:50.760 And I said, what good is a teacher? 506 00:27:50.760 --> 00:27:51.920 What is it, Ms. Wagner? 507 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:53.240 What will I do with it? 508 00:27:53.500 --> 00:27:55.240 She said, I'll tell you what. 509 00:27:55.580 --> 00:27:58.920 I'll go to the bank with you and you can cash your check. 510 00:27:59.900 --> 00:28:02.280 And I thought, oh boy, I think I felt better 511 00:28:02.280 --> 00:28:05.300 about walking with that teacher to cash my check 512 00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:07.960 than getting the check. 513 00:28:09.120 --> 00:28:12.420 And then, of course, I didn't want 514 00:28:12.420 --> 00:28:14.960 to give the check to my father because my father would take 515 00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:16.940 it all and send it foolishly. 516 00:28:16.940 --> 00:28:21.240 So I bought some groceries for my mother 517 00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:25.020 and some candy for my brother and candy for my two sisters 518 00:28:25.020 --> 00:28:27.980 and candy for myself. 519 00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:32.280 And that was the biggest thing I ever did when I was that age. 520 00:28:33.800 --> 00:28:35.260 Oh, that's a great story. 521 00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:38.940 Yeah, well, I always was interested in stories. 522 00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:42.720 And I could make up stories that nobody knew anything about, 523 00:28:43.820 --> 00:28:45.420 like Santa Claus in the airplane 524 00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:48.160 and the little paddles coming out. 525 00:28:48.580 --> 00:28:54.340 Another time I had a great big turtle. 526 00:28:55.520 --> 00:29:01.900 And I had it in a wash tub. 527 00:29:02.300 --> 00:29:05.540 And then I put bricks on top and put the turtle on top. 528 00:29:06.760 --> 00:29:09.260 And then I was so happy with my turtle. 529 00:29:09.300 --> 00:29:11.100 I would catch him worms and everything. 530 00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:14.240 And then one day I brought out, one day 531 00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:18.880 I went to school and one of the kids said, gee, 532 00:29:19.240 --> 00:29:22.580 if you ever have a baby turtle, I would like to have one. 533 00:29:22.860 --> 00:29:23.740 I thought, oh, sure. 534 00:29:24.080 --> 00:29:26.040 So I got that idea then. 535 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:28.580 And I went and talked around to my friends. 536 00:29:28.860 --> 00:29:30.580 And I promised everyone a turtle. 537 00:29:31.280 --> 00:29:34.060 About 20 kids, I promised them a turtle 538 00:29:34.060 --> 00:29:35.580 when my turtle had turtles. 539 00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:40.000 Well, the teacher got wind of this. 540 00:29:40.540 --> 00:29:42.160 And she said, Margaret, come up here. 541 00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:45.440 She said, how many turtles have you got? 542 00:29:46.080 --> 00:29:48.880 And I said, one, big one, like that. 543 00:29:49.360 --> 00:29:50.800 And she lays eggs. 544 00:29:51.020 --> 00:29:52.980 She already laid 20 eggs. 545 00:29:53.600 --> 00:29:57.220 And the teacher said, how many turtles have you got? 546 00:29:58.040 --> 00:30:00.740 I said, I just got one turtle, but I got a lot of eggs. 547 00:30:02.100 --> 00:30:04.660 And I promised them to all my friends, 548 00:30:05.040 --> 00:30:07.040 this wonderful one that would take care of it. 549 00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:07.840 You're good care. 550 00:30:08.700 --> 00:30:10.960 So that's when the teacher told me, 551 00:30:12.520 --> 00:30:13.760 if you only have one turtle, 552 00:30:14.080 --> 00:30:15.840 you aren't gonna have any little turtles. 553 00:30:16.140 --> 00:30:18.740 You have to have two big turtles. 554 00:30:22.600 --> 00:30:24.580 I tell you, that was really something. 555 00:30:25.620 --> 00:30:27.080 Because none of the eggs were fertile. 556 00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:28.640 None of them ever hatched. 557 00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:32.160 So you were from a very young age. 558 00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:34.160 You had stories going on in your head. 559 00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:38.400 You were creating stories from a very young age. 560 00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:40.780 Yes, yes, always made up things. 561 00:30:40.900 --> 00:30:41.940 I was made up things. 562 00:30:42.060 --> 00:30:42.760 Yes, I did. 563 00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:47.360 And when it came to a story for a teacher, 564 00:30:47.840 --> 00:30:50.820 I always was number one. 565 00:30:51.340 --> 00:30:52.600 Well, let me ask you this. 566 00:30:52.700 --> 00:30:57.680 And nobody helped me, except a teacher who would encourage me. 567 00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:01.240 That's it. 568 00:31:01.460 --> 00:31:03.920 So when you're, let's go back to the club. 569 00:31:04.900 --> 00:31:06.120 You're at the Metro Club. 570 00:31:07.140 --> 00:31:09.220 You've thought of a story you wanna do. 571 00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:12.060 How did you all structure it? 572 00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:15.860 Was there a structure to the production of the story? 573 00:31:16.460 --> 00:31:17.700 Was, were you the boss? 574 00:31:18.020 --> 00:31:19.400 Was somebody else the boss? 575 00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:21.160 Did you each have roles? 576 00:31:21.800 --> 00:31:23.240 How did you just wing it? 577 00:31:23.260 --> 00:31:25.700 I was always the boss of my own films. 578 00:31:26.420 --> 00:31:30.020 I never let us to know anyone else. 579 00:31:30.580 --> 00:31:32.860 And what we'd do, we'd call them the director. 580 00:31:33.660 --> 00:31:34.720 We have the director, 581 00:31:34.820 --> 00:31:36.460 and then we would have all the assistants, 582 00:31:36.580 --> 00:31:41.480 the sound man, you know, the script person. 583 00:31:42.260 --> 00:31:45.900 We have, where's the script? 584 00:31:46.420 --> 00:31:48.720 The clapboard back there. 585 00:31:48.760 --> 00:31:51.280 Yeah, that's, do you wanna show that? 586 00:31:52.520 --> 00:31:53.620 We'll bring it out later. 587 00:31:53.820 --> 00:31:54.080 What? 588 00:31:54.180 --> 00:31:55.160 We'll bring it out later. 589 00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:56.540 We'll see it behind you. 590 00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:01.640 Well, that was, we would keep track of the different shots. 591 00:32:02.080 --> 00:32:05.080 We would act one, scene one, 592 00:32:07.620 --> 00:32:09.700 and that way we would know. 593 00:32:10.120 --> 00:32:12.440 We couldn't shoot a film all in one day, 594 00:32:12.660 --> 00:32:14.040 but you passed it. 595 00:32:15.560 --> 00:32:16.860 Did you write a script? 596 00:32:17.520 --> 00:32:19.600 I always wrote a script. 597 00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:23.060 Unless it was a very short story, 598 00:32:23.060 --> 00:32:29.920 and well, I knew what my kitty was gonna do, 599 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:33.140 so I didn't have a script. 600 00:32:33.140 --> 00:32:35.840 I was the only one, only me and my kitty. 601 00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:40.960 Well, you were making these films, 602 00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:44.300 and some of the other club members 603 00:32:44.300 --> 00:32:45.660 would be in your film, right? 604 00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:46.540 Did what? 605 00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:49.500 Some of the other club members would be in your film. 606 00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:50.480 Oh, yes. 607 00:32:51.140 --> 00:32:51.140 608 00:32:51.140 --> 00:32:54.900 So what we would, what you would do is first 609 00:32:55.580 --> 00:32:57.200 get a good story, 610 00:32:58.340 --> 00:33:01.460 and then write it, break it up into parts 611 00:33:02.460 --> 00:33:05.940 that could be shot with the film. 612 00:33:11.500 --> 00:33:14.860 What you really could do is 613 00:33:15.540 --> 00:33:18.080 all the shots that were in the same place, 614 00:33:18.100 --> 00:33:19.260 you would shoot it once, 615 00:33:19.260 --> 00:33:23.960 and then you could, all the shots of another place, 616 00:33:24.840 --> 00:33:28.240 maybe would even be a different city or a different, 617 00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:32.800 different place, 618 00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:36.260 but it would be a lot easier to edit that way. 619 00:33:37.660 --> 00:33:39.080 So you shot out of sequence. 620 00:33:39.660 --> 00:33:40.220 Out of what? 621 00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:41.360 Out of sequence. 622 00:33:41.780 --> 00:33:44.140 You shot everything at one place and then. 623 00:33:44.140 --> 00:33:45.780 Yeah, yes, we would do that. 624 00:33:47.120 --> 00:33:48.240 If the film. 625 00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:48.740 Which is all professionals. 626 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:51.020 How professionals usually, 627 00:33:51.140 --> 00:33:54.080 that's how they usually shoot their films. 628 00:33:55.700 --> 00:33:58.320 Well, I would read a lot of professional magazines 629 00:33:58.320 --> 00:33:59.860 and things like that too, 630 00:34:00.100 --> 00:34:03.820 and I would get ideas of what they did do, 631 00:34:04.260 --> 00:34:06.580 but especially editing and 632 00:34:09.980 --> 00:34:11.400 scripting and things like that. 633 00:34:11.540 --> 00:34:13.520 The story film was the most important to me, 634 00:34:13.540 --> 00:34:15.420 and that's always what I could do best, 635 00:34:15.420 --> 00:34:18.100 not only for myself, but for other people. 636 00:34:21.520 --> 00:34:23.140 Were there any disagreements? 637 00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:23.640 What? 638 00:34:23.900 --> 00:34:26.100 Were there any clashes of egos 639 00:34:26.100 --> 00:34:28.680 or disagreements in the club 640 00:34:31.240 --> 00:34:32.540 while making a film? 641 00:34:32.940 --> 00:34:34.020 About making a film? 642 00:34:34.500 --> 00:34:36.080 When it was a club project film, 643 00:34:36.740 --> 00:34:38.980 the one who was the director was the boss, 644 00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:41.380 and the one who was the director, 645 00:34:42.660 --> 00:34:44.780 I mean, technically, he was the boss, 646 00:34:44.780 --> 00:34:46.580 or she, and 647 00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:51.100 whatever the director said, 648 00:34:52.180 --> 00:34:56.200 the person in the club was supposed to do it. 649 00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:00.980 I don't remember any time that someone was 650 00:35:01.660 --> 00:35:04.720 called upon to play a part 651 00:35:04.720 --> 00:35:07.920 and not want it, and not want to do it, 652 00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:10.960 because if they could do it, 653 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:12.800 somebody could say, 654 00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:15.000 well, we're going on vacation at that time. 655 00:35:15.380 --> 00:35:17.640 Well, then you have to 656 00:35:17.640 --> 00:35:20.880 coordinate everything so that it would all work 657 00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:22.660 at the same time, 658 00:35:23.660 --> 00:35:27.520 just like a job or a work or something. 659 00:35:29.040 --> 00:35:29.900 You had to... 660 00:35:29.900 --> 00:35:33.700 That was that important to everybody in the club 661 00:35:33.700 --> 00:35:35.760 that they did kind of 662 00:35:36.900 --> 00:35:41.100 give the same importance to this club activity 663 00:35:41.100 --> 00:35:43.040 as they would to their job, oftentimes. 664 00:35:43.040 --> 00:35:43.880 Oh, yes. 665 00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:47.920 It was, in fact, some of them felt it was more important. 666 00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:51.160 Some people would take off from their job 667 00:35:51.160 --> 00:35:53.500 or take off their vacation. 668 00:35:55.360 --> 00:35:57.820 Forget about their vacation, let's do the film. 669 00:35:59.020 --> 00:36:01.120 I remember one time, though, 670 00:36:02.520 --> 00:36:04.180 things that we liked to do, 671 00:36:04.900 --> 00:36:05.740 we would 672 00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:12.040 coordinate it with what we were going to do. 673 00:36:12.720 --> 00:36:13.460 For instance, 674 00:36:15.040 --> 00:36:16.980 we would try to make something nice 675 00:36:16.980 --> 00:36:18.380 go along with something harder. 676 00:36:19.700 --> 00:36:22.180 I remember one time we were doing a... 677 00:36:23.380 --> 00:36:25.020 It was July, 678 00:36:25.720 --> 00:36:29.500 and we were having a Metro Movie Club picnic, 679 00:36:30.040 --> 00:36:32.120 but we also were going to make a film, 680 00:36:32.120 --> 00:36:36.760 and this film was going to be when two of the children 681 00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:39.900 take a walk, and they go down by the river, 682 00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:41.020 and they see a tree, 683 00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:45.120 and somebody picks up a little 684 00:36:46.840 --> 00:36:47.400 lamp, 685 00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:50.940 and starts one of those little oil lamps, 686 00:36:51.460 --> 00:36:54.760 like the Aladdin and all those guys use, 687 00:36:55.080 --> 00:36:56.520 and they rub it like this, 688 00:36:56.800 --> 00:36:59.000 and all of a sudden the tree came 689 00:37:00.160 --> 00:37:02.640 and filled with beautiful ornaments, 690 00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:05.700 and they said, oh my gosh, 691 00:37:05.780 --> 00:37:07.560 let's go back and tell mom and dad. 692 00:37:08.040 --> 00:37:09.460 So they rubbed the little thing, 693 00:37:09.620 --> 00:37:11.100 and the ornaments went away, 694 00:37:11.640 --> 00:37:12.580 and then 695 00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:17.100 they went back to the table, 696 00:37:17.140 --> 00:37:18.180 and everybody was eating, 697 00:37:18.220 --> 00:37:20.800 and the kids wanted their mother and father to come 698 00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:23.580 to see the magic tree, 699 00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:24.960 and their mother says, no, no, 700 00:37:25.060 --> 00:37:26.900 you gotta eat your dinner here. 701 00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:28.540 So they ate their dinner. 702 00:37:28.540 --> 00:37:29.920 Now can we go, mom? 703 00:37:30.040 --> 00:37:30.620 Can we go? 704 00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:34.260 So finally, the mother takes the little, 705 00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:36.580 the kids, and they walk, 706 00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:38.800 they walk and they come to the tree, 707 00:37:39.220 --> 00:37:42.020 and they rub the little thing for the mother to see, 708 00:37:42.420 --> 00:37:46.500 and all the ornaments come on and light up, 709 00:37:47.080 --> 00:37:48.560 and then they say, oh, well, 710 00:37:48.660 --> 00:37:51.900 let's tell the park commissioner about this. 711 00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:54.880 So they go, and they get them, 712 00:37:55.840 --> 00:37:57.500 and they rub the little light, 713 00:37:57.500 --> 00:37:58.640 the little lamp, 714 00:37:59.100 --> 00:38:01.640 and they wouldn't go. 715 00:38:03.700 --> 00:38:04.280 So, 716 00:38:07.260 --> 00:38:09.320 I forgot what else we did to it, 717 00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:11.620 but it was the magic thing. 718 00:38:12.080 --> 00:38:16.760 The funny thing was about putting all the ornaments 719 00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:17.820 on the tree, 720 00:38:18.300 --> 00:38:18.860 and then 721 00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:25.040 taking them off and putting them on, 722 00:38:25.040 --> 00:38:27.620 but we didn't have to do all that, 723 00:38:27.680 --> 00:38:29.260 because we could do that in editing. 724 00:38:29.720 --> 00:38:31.060 We could cut the film, 725 00:38:31.720 --> 00:38:35.000 and use the same film that we put the lights on, 726 00:38:35.300 --> 00:38:36.580 just cut a piece off it, 727 00:38:36.640 --> 00:38:37.860 and hold it over here, 728 00:38:38.260 --> 00:38:39.520 put up a number, 729 00:38:40.980 --> 00:38:45.620 and then other spots where the thing was bare, 730 00:38:46.060 --> 00:38:46.900 you put that together. 731 00:38:46.900 --> 00:38:48.520 That was an editing job, 732 00:38:49.300 --> 00:38:51.780 but it could be done very well. 733 00:38:55.040 --> 00:38:58.220 Okay, do you wanna just take a rest here? 734 00:38:58.220 --> 00:38:59.120 You're doing great. 735 00:38:59.560 --> 00:39:00.880 Are you okay to keep going? 736 00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:01.900 Do you really think so? 737 00:39:01.900 --> 00:39:02.520 Yes, I do. 738 00:39:03.080 --> 00:39:03.300 Yes. 739 00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:06.140 Some of the really important things I forget. 740 00:39:06.940 --> 00:39:08.180 No, this is really, 741 00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:09.900 these are really great stories. 742 00:39:10.080 --> 00:39:11.320 Yeah, it's really interesting, Margaret. 743 00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:14.100 I mean, you're telling stuff that I haven't heard before, too, 744 00:39:14.100 --> 00:39:16.500 and I had some questions about stuff 745 00:39:16.500 --> 00:39:18.620 that maybe I'll ask afterwards, 746 00:39:19.040 --> 00:39:21.100 if you wanna take a drink of water or something. 747 00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:23.680 I got a question now that John's gone. 748 00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:24.180 Yeah. 749 00:39:24.180 --> 00:39:26.140 You wanna ask about the saga of the first and last? 750 00:39:26.800 --> 00:39:26.940 Yes. 751 00:39:27.500 --> 00:39:30.480 So tell me about making the saga of the first and last 752 00:39:31.200 --> 00:39:32.000 with John. 753 00:39:32.100 --> 00:39:32.840 What was that like? 754 00:39:34.300 --> 00:39:36.420 Well, let's see, we did it. 755 00:39:36.420 --> 00:39:37.300 We had to... 756 00:39:41.560 --> 00:39:43.400 Do you wanna know how we did it? 757 00:39:43.780 --> 00:39:46.780 Well, you actually made him smoke cigarettes, huh? 758 00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:49.560 Ha ha ha. 759 00:39:49.900 --> 00:39:50.900 Yeah, I guess. 760 00:39:51.120 --> 00:39:51.740 Not me. 761 00:39:51.740 --> 00:39:54.240 I had another friend, Ed Diller, 762 00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:59.100 and he wanted to do this with John. 763 00:40:00.300 --> 00:40:01.340 And I said, he says, 764 00:40:01.340 --> 00:40:04.480 I'd like to make a film with John with the birds and bees and stuff. 765 00:40:04.740 --> 00:40:08.420 I said, well, how about making one with... 766 00:40:11.580 --> 00:40:12.560 John's going out. 767 00:40:12.860 --> 00:40:16.460 You drive your car out, and you drop your cigarettes 768 00:40:16.460 --> 00:40:17.720 and let him pick them up, 769 00:40:17.720 --> 00:40:20.680 and then let him take them over 770 00:40:20.680 --> 00:40:23.160 and shoot a couple cans off of the bridge, 771 00:40:23.740 --> 00:40:27.420 and then he can try one of the cigarettes. 772 00:40:28.760 --> 00:40:31.420 And I'd like to use all the different filters 773 00:40:31.420 --> 00:40:32.700 after he gets sick. 774 00:40:33.700 --> 00:40:36.280 You know, we had red filters, green filters, purple filters, 775 00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:38.060 and he's over... 776 00:40:38.060 --> 00:40:39.000 Do you remember the film? 777 00:40:39.940 --> 00:40:44.040 Well, he thought that would be a good idea. 778 00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:46.900 He said he'd like to make it. 779 00:40:46.900 --> 00:40:49.980 He told me first he'd like to make a film with John 780 00:40:50.540 --> 00:40:51.920 because he liked John a lot. 781 00:40:52.140 --> 00:40:54.300 He and John used to go out and... 782 00:40:59.000 --> 00:40:59.640 catch... 783 00:40:59.640 --> 00:41:04.260 take pictures and catch insects and birds and everything. 784 00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:05.240 They just loved nature. 785 00:41:05.620 --> 00:41:08.100 They had been boy scouts, you know. 786 00:41:08.580 --> 00:41:10.220 And so... 787 00:41:12.060 --> 00:41:13.680 Then we went out. 788 00:41:15.420 --> 00:41:19.260 I drove the car, and Ed got out of the car 789 00:41:19.260 --> 00:41:20.980 and dropped his cigarettes, 790 00:41:21.420 --> 00:41:23.360 and then he got in again, and I drove away, 791 00:41:23.640 --> 00:41:24.540 nearly killed John. 792 00:41:25.700 --> 00:41:27.820 I wasn't used to Ed's car. 793 00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:31.960 And then when he got out, 794 00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:36.000 I did the filming and the filters, 795 00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:39.500 put the filters in front of my bollocks 796 00:41:39.500 --> 00:41:42.460 so that it looked like John was getting pretty sick. 797 00:41:44.260 --> 00:41:44.780 And... 798 00:41:44.780 --> 00:41:46.260 Had he ever smoked a cigarette before? 799 00:41:46.640 --> 00:41:46.640 800 00:41:47.720 --> 00:41:48.480 No, he never. 801 00:41:48.560 --> 00:41:49.860 And he never has since. 802 00:41:50.140 --> 00:41:50.960 That you know of? 803 00:41:51.720 --> 00:41:53.300 No, no, he told me. 804 00:41:53.700 --> 00:41:54.760 John tells me, huh? 805 00:41:55.100 --> 00:41:57.380 But you were willing to make your son smoke cigarettes 806 00:41:57.380 --> 00:41:59.080 in order to get a good movie, huh? 807 00:41:59.860 --> 00:42:00.640 Ha-ha! 808 00:42:01.080 --> 00:42:02.200 I guess I was. 809 00:42:02.540 --> 00:42:03.380 Ha-ha! 810 00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:05.040 And he was... 811 00:42:05.040 --> 00:42:06.900 But then, without his cooperation, 812 00:42:07.040 --> 00:42:08.400 he thought that was pretty funny. 813 00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:13.180 And he liked the film when it was done. 814 00:42:14.700 --> 00:42:17.840 But I had taken a lot of films of Jimmy, too. 815 00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:21.560 Jimmy, we did a lot of filming with the Boy Scouts. 816 00:42:21.680 --> 00:42:25.780 We went up to Camp Danbeard and the Wassepie. 817 00:42:26.380 --> 00:42:27.120 Were you a Boy Scout? 818 00:42:27.200 --> 00:42:27.920 No, you're... 819 00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:28.840 No, I was a Boy Scout. 820 00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:29.620 Were you? 821 00:42:30.080 --> 00:42:31.300 Jimmy's a Golden Eagle. 822 00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:33.160 No, Eagle Scout. 823 00:42:33.540 --> 00:42:34.460 I'm a Golden Eagle. 824 00:42:35.020 --> 00:42:37.820 They don't have Golden Eagle Girl Scouts anymore. 825 00:42:37.820 --> 00:42:39.820 But they do...they have... 826 00:42:40.900 --> 00:42:43.300 Eagle Scout, Jimmy was the first one 827 00:42:43.300 --> 00:42:44.820 that thanked our sisters over here. 828 00:42:45.140 --> 00:42:46.020 He and another friend. 829 00:42:46.380 --> 00:42:48.340 You took some films of the Boy Scouts, right? 830 00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:48.780 He what? 831 00:42:48.980 --> 00:42:50.460 You took some films of the Boy Scouts. 832 00:42:50.500 --> 00:42:51.600 Oh, yes. 833 00:42:52.240 --> 00:42:54.560 I was the only woman that was allowed 834 00:42:54.560 --> 00:42:56.740 at the Boy Scout camp without their husband. 835 00:42:58.420 --> 00:43:00.940 And so I stayed in the nurses' quarter. 836 00:43:03.460 --> 00:43:05.980 So I went out every time they went out. 837 00:43:05.980 --> 00:43:09.380 Especially we took a lot of pictures of them 838 00:43:09.380 --> 00:43:11.060 on their canoeing on the water. 839 00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:12.840 And they turned their canoe over, 840 00:43:13.260 --> 00:43:14.960 and then they'd have to upright it. 841 00:43:17.160 --> 00:43:20.420 Then there were days when they went out 842 00:43:22.020 --> 00:43:23.460 for the nature badge. 843 00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:25.660 A lot of the badges I would take, 844 00:43:25.660 --> 00:43:29.300 the things that were required to pass the merit badges, 845 00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:31.920 I filmed them for the Boy Scouts 846 00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:33.880 and I turned them all over to them. 847 00:43:33.880 --> 00:43:41.220 But we also had a group making fiberglass canoes, 848 00:43:41.320 --> 00:43:42.560 making their own canoes. 849 00:43:43.620 --> 00:43:47.560 And Jimmy, we did that about two blocks over here, 850 00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:52.360 in one of the guys' garages. 851 00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:57.000 And they had a heat heat in a little hot stove. 852 00:43:57.100 --> 00:43:59.800 They had to heat up the stuff and pour it and melt it 853 00:43:59.800 --> 00:44:01.080 and pat it around. 854 00:44:01.080 --> 00:44:05.400 And then we made the canoes. 855 00:44:05.600 --> 00:44:07.180 I don't think that was required, 856 00:44:08.080 --> 00:44:09.920 but was it required, Jim? 857 00:44:11.800 --> 00:44:12.240 No. 858 00:44:14.140 --> 00:44:14.860 Fell asleep. 859 00:44:17.160 --> 00:44:20.720 Okay, so you made some movies with John and Jim, 860 00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:24.020 and then there came the time when you made Fairy Princess. 861 00:44:24.120 --> 00:44:25.740 That was with your niece, right? 862 00:44:25.900 --> 00:44:26.380 Yes. 863 00:44:26.380 --> 00:44:29.600 Now, was that your first 16 millimeter sound film? 864 00:44:32.180 --> 00:44:32.880 Yes, it was. 865 00:44:34.040 --> 00:44:35.120 Yes, it was, I believe. 866 00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:38.740 And also maybe the first animated film that you made. 867 00:44:38.740 --> 00:44:39.400 Yes, it was. 868 00:44:39.620 --> 00:44:43.000 So tell me about how you got the idea of making a sound film 869 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:45.860 and an animated film and put all of these parts together. 870 00:44:46.020 --> 00:44:50.060 Well, I was very much interested in Jack Riddell's animation, 871 00:44:50.520 --> 00:44:53.360 but he had animation of flowers, so it was beautiful. 872 00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:58.080 And he told me how to do it. 873 00:44:58.380 --> 00:45:02.300 So I would have it set up here in this room 874 00:45:02.300 --> 00:45:05.900 and put a little background all around. 875 00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:09.880 And all these little dolls, we would dress them up 876 00:45:09.880 --> 00:45:14.360 in different shining costumes that were very photogenic. 877 00:45:15.340 --> 00:45:21.700 And then you would move one little doll about one inch 878 00:45:21.700 --> 00:45:27.040 and then shoot, and then another one about an inch 879 00:45:27.040 --> 00:45:27.920 and then shoot. 880 00:45:28.580 --> 00:45:37.420 But you had to do it 24 times for about an inch. 881 00:45:40.420 --> 00:45:43.700 And I was up until about 2 o'clock in the morning 882 00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:45.680 trying to get the dolls, 883 00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:50.580 get the number of emotions that I needed. 884 00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:54.780 And so finally I got enough. 885 00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:56.420 In fact, I had more than enough. 886 00:45:56.960 --> 00:46:07.120 I even put some more of the dolls dancing on another film. 887 00:46:08.040 --> 00:46:09.620 Which film was that? 888 00:46:09.700 --> 00:46:10.100 Pardon? 889 00:46:10.420 --> 00:46:14.200 Which film was that that you put the more, the extra dancing? 890 00:46:14.200 --> 00:46:21.200 It was part of a Christmas film where I had my nephew 891 00:46:21.200 --> 00:46:23.880 and my two little nieces together. 892 00:46:24.100 --> 00:46:25.100 They're brothers and sisters. 893 00:46:25.480 --> 00:46:28.660 And they're just sitting there like, oh boy, oh boy, you know. 894 00:46:28.940 --> 00:46:30.480 And the dolls are dancing around. 895 00:46:32.900 --> 00:46:36.240 But it took a long time to do the narration on. 896 00:46:37.220 --> 00:46:39.200 And at that time nobody ever did it. 897 00:46:39.240 --> 00:46:42.000 Of course, now they got everything so easy, 898 00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:46.880 which was very different than at that time. 899 00:46:49.160 --> 00:46:55.220 And I think one reason it did win was it had a good, 900 00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:57.560 it was supposed to be a family, 901 00:46:58.900 --> 00:47:04.960 the best family film in the PSA competition in ACL. 902 00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:18.220 And Harris Tuttle, he was the vice president of Kodak at that time. 903 00:47:18.420 --> 00:47:23.020 And he sponsored a great big trophy, about this big, 904 00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:24.660 for the best family film. 905 00:47:25.820 --> 00:47:28.580 And it was a national and international competition. 906 00:47:28.680 --> 00:47:30.320 And it won at that time. 907 00:47:32.140 --> 00:47:34.940 You must have been pretty proud of yourself to have won that. 908 00:47:36.160 --> 00:47:38.060 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 909 00:47:38.200 --> 00:47:41.200 I was happy with the results. 910 00:47:43.260 --> 00:47:47.960 But then they started me judging, me being a judge. 911 00:47:48.140 --> 00:47:50.980 You know, once you were a good filmer, 912 00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:57.480 then you were asked to judge some of these very prestigious competitions. 913 00:47:58.180 --> 00:48:01.020 And some of the fancy trophies that they got, 914 00:48:01.120 --> 00:48:02.840 I got some of them over there. 915 00:48:04.940 --> 00:48:08.900 Looks like an anchor to me, but it says by Kodak, 916 00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:13.020 it's a sterling silver Kodak thing. 917 00:48:13.640 --> 00:48:19.820 And they had one judge from Toronto, that was Jack Waddell, 918 00:48:20.140 --> 00:48:26.960 and one judge from New York City, that was Stuart Dobbs, Rose Dobbs' husband. 919 00:48:27.720 --> 00:48:30.000 I think Rose helped her a lot on that one, though. 920 00:48:31.100 --> 00:48:33.740 And then it was me from Chicago. 921 00:48:33.740 --> 00:48:37.000 And we, oh, it was some week. 922 00:48:37.860 --> 00:48:39.960 All week we watched films. 923 00:48:41.360 --> 00:48:42.680 And there are other judges. 924 00:48:44.180 --> 00:48:46.740 We were the movie judges for International. 925 00:48:49.020 --> 00:48:52.240 And there were other judges for the still photographers, 926 00:48:52.520 --> 00:48:54.140 large prints, small prints. 927 00:48:55.600 --> 00:49:00.960 A large print was 16 by 20, and a small print was 5 by 7 or 8 by 10. 928 00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:03.900 And they had different judges for each group. 929 00:49:06.120 --> 00:49:12.420 And they sent us our airline tickets on American Airlines. 930 00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:17.940 And then we stayed at the best hotel in Rochester for a week. 931 00:49:18.400 --> 00:49:20.180 And then all our meals we had. 932 00:49:21.040 --> 00:49:22.640 But we didn't get paid. 933 00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:27.160 But I always thought what we got was a lot better than paying. 934 00:49:28.980 --> 00:49:31.160 Besides, you get to meet all your best friends, 935 00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:39.280 and some of them who became good friends because of the different competitions. 936 00:49:40.720 --> 00:49:43.720 And often at the competitions you would meet the same judges 937 00:49:43.720 --> 00:49:48.980 as you had last year or the year before or next year. 938 00:49:48.980 --> 00:49:58.040 And it was always really a great thing to judge a prestigious competition. 939 00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:06.380 And many other countries like Spain, of course England. 940 00:50:06.500 --> 00:50:14.660 England was very prominent and a very good one to get your films into. 941 00:50:15.620 --> 00:50:17.640 Before, they even judged. 942 00:50:18.860 --> 00:50:22.580 They disqualified a lot of them. 943 00:50:23.180 --> 00:50:27.060 Otherwise they have 300 films or something. 944 00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:28.900 That's too much for a judge. 945 00:50:29.120 --> 00:50:31.240 So they kind of screen them out. 946 00:50:32.440 --> 00:50:34.140 Toronto did that too. 947 00:50:34.520 --> 00:50:38.220 I judged for Toronto about 12 times altogether. 948 00:50:45.180 --> 00:50:45.940 Oh yes. 949 00:50:47.460 --> 00:50:48.180 That's right. 950 00:50:49.280 --> 00:50:51.060 And see which one's won. 951 00:50:52.780 --> 00:50:54.380 What's the kind you're going to make? 952 00:50:59.660 --> 00:51:04.180 They would give me ideas, but then I would add my ideas to it 953 00:51:04.180 --> 00:51:06.340 that I felt made them better. 954 00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:08.780 That's conceited, isn't it? 955 00:51:09.100 --> 00:51:11.880 But that's how I felt about it. 956 00:51:14.660 --> 00:51:20.260 I hear that artists borrow or they steal. 957 00:51:20.580 --> 00:51:20.980 Oh yeah. 958 00:51:22.200 --> 00:51:23.220 Whatever works best. 959 00:51:23.640 --> 00:51:30.140 Yes, but it was a great thing to go to the conventions too. 960 00:51:30.540 --> 00:51:39.260 Because when you had conventions you had a choice of maybe five to seven programs going on at one time. 961 00:51:39.260 --> 00:51:43.800 But of course the movie makers always went just to the movies. 962 00:51:45.120 --> 00:51:49.260 And many, many times I was program chairman for the internationals. 963 00:51:50.220 --> 00:51:54.400 And so I always knew which were the best films out. 964 00:51:55.500 --> 00:52:02.220 And that makes it not only interesting to see those films, but to see the makers 965 00:52:02.220 --> 00:52:04.520 and to hear what else they had to say. 966 00:52:04.540 --> 00:52:06.600 Because everyone was different. 967 00:52:06.600 --> 00:52:08.920 Nobody seemed to be the same. 968 00:52:09.980 --> 00:52:14.340 And there wasn't anything like you'd say a copycat. 969 00:52:15.120 --> 00:52:18.380 You just copy what he did because he won. 970 00:52:19.580 --> 00:52:21.600 You just didn't, nobody ever did that. 971 00:52:22.140 --> 00:52:25.160 Everybody wanted to be original as they can. 972 00:52:25.860 --> 00:52:26.720 And they were. 973 00:52:27.720 --> 00:52:35.560 One of the most original films of yours I think is the Chicago City to See in 63 film? 974 00:52:36.760 --> 00:52:37.120 Yes. 975 00:52:37.120 --> 00:52:40.980 Where did you get the idea to make that one? It was for a convention. 976 00:52:41.200 --> 00:52:42.260 From a poem. 977 00:52:43.040 --> 00:52:48.080 A poem was The City to See in 63. 978 00:52:50.020 --> 00:52:52.880 And it was in the PSA journal. 979 00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:57.300 And then I changed it around a lot. 980 00:52:58.340 --> 00:53:00.300 And there was a competition. 981 00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:07.240 Well, the big convention this year was to be in Los Angeles. 982 00:53:07.680 --> 00:53:14.520 And the president said, have someone in the Chicago area make a film 983 00:53:14.520 --> 00:53:20.500 and we'll have a competition for the films to see which one will win. 984 00:53:22.520 --> 00:53:36.240 To be shown at Los Angeles when the Chicago Fair is next. 985 00:53:38.160 --> 00:53:40.000 So, I hope I got that right. 986 00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:49.080 Anyhow, there were quite a few films from Chicago and everybody thought they were going to win. 987 00:53:49.580 --> 00:53:54.860 But it was a big surprise to me to find out that my film won. 988 00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:58.480 And I made it to a poem. 989 00:54:05.620 --> 00:54:07.340 Was it a poem that you wrote? 990 00:54:07.880 --> 00:54:09.400 No, no. 991 00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:11.560 I was a friend of mine. 992 00:54:14.580 --> 00:54:15.980 I forgot who wrote it. 993 00:54:16.220 --> 00:54:20.140 But I had a change of some of the words to make it fit. 994 00:54:21.300 --> 00:54:22.540 I did that. 995 00:54:23.300 --> 00:54:25.300 And then I directed the film. 996 00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:35.580 You have to measure out how much film you want to, what scene it is. 997 00:54:35.580 --> 00:54:47.820 And then like the film, another film I made, Silver Bells, you make all the words 998 00:54:47.820 --> 00:54:55.540 and then you fit your footage to how much you need to show on the film 999 00:54:55.540 --> 00:55:00.080 that shows just exactly what you wanted to say. 1000 00:55:01.300 --> 00:55:06.880 Feet are walking and feet going up to church steps or something like that. 1001 00:55:10.160 --> 00:55:15.460 So in the case of City to See in 63, you had the poem and the soundtrack first 1002 00:55:15.460 --> 00:55:18.840 and then you went and got the footage to match that? 1003 00:55:19.040 --> 00:55:20.160 Yes, yes. 1004 00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:23.060 That's how we did it. 1005 00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:25.700 Who narrated that? 1006 00:55:25.840 --> 00:55:27.100 It was a big editing. 1007 00:55:27.660 --> 00:55:28.400 Oh, I'm sorry. 1008 00:55:29.480 --> 00:55:30.660 Charles Sadelli. 1009 00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:30.960 Sorry. 1010 00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:36.360 Who narrated the City to See? 1011 00:55:38.500 --> 00:55:40.640 See, the film was done first. 1012 00:55:41.160 --> 00:55:45.080 And then the narration was Dr. Cochran. 1013 00:55:45.500 --> 00:55:48.380 And he was a very funny, comical guy. 1014 00:55:49.060 --> 00:55:51.100 He could make anything sound great. 1015 00:55:51.540 --> 00:55:57.060 And like Nancy said, she looked at it and it got a lot better with the sound. 1016 00:55:57.060 --> 00:56:01.380 But I think every film is better with the sound unless it's lousy sound.