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Well, we're pleased to bring you the first program of a new series entitled Eat to Your

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Health's Content with William Grisham and Dr. B. and I'm Bill Grisham.

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Well, my friend Dr. B. is what you might call a learned man.

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He has numerous academic degrees which are designated by an assortment of letters of

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the alphabet which he's entitled to append to his name, but he's not at all stuffy, far from it.

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He's very approachable, friendly, and helpful. I called on Dr. B. recently to ask about foods.

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It's a subject which has long been his special field of interest as a scientist and I found him

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in his book-lined office at Nutrition Dynamics, a company concerned with nutrition education,

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with which he recently became affiliated and our conversation began something like this.

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You know, we have a stack of letters here and a lot of people have been inquiring about protein

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and I wonder if you'd mind discussing this nutrient.

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Greetings, my dear Grisham. So you want some information about

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protein, do you? Let's hear the question.

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All right, well one of my correspondents wants to know if it's possible to get all

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the protein you need when you're obliged to eat less meat.

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Of course she can. I take it for granted that your question comes from a woman who is concerned

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about proper feeding of her family. Tell her that there should be no problem at all about getting

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all the protein anyone needs, even when meats are scarce. Even when there is no meat at all,

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it can be done. Informed vegetarians can do all right for themselves.

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Informed vegetarian? I think our inquiry is concerned really about the higher costs of most

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meats. It's not necessary to do without even when the price of your favorite meat is high.

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There are many cheaper cuts which nutritionally are good bargains. All kinds and cuts of meat,

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when you consider what you would have after trimming and removing the bone and visible fat

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as much as possible, may be regarded as almost equally nutritious as far as protein is concerned.

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They also provide other nutrients which meats are counted on to supply.

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Other nutrients, doctor? Certainly, meats are outstanding dietary sources of protein as everybody

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seems to know. They're also important sources of thiamine. Pork is especially outstanding with

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respect to this nutrient. They provide riboflavin, niacin, and iron. These are five of the eight major

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nutrients that we need each day. There are many other nutrients that we call minor, but only in

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meals with a variety of good foods. Well, there's thiamine, riboflavin, and niacin.

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They're vitamins, aren't they? Yes. All three are members of the vitamin B group. They enter

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into combination with other substances in the body and in these forms participate in the utilization

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of foodstuffs. I refer to the oxidation of protein, fat, and carbohydrate to give body heat

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and to yield the energy that enables the body to work or play or simply live. The B vitamins

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are found in meat then and are there other vitamins that are found in foods, vitamins which

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you know we have to plan for to make sure they're in our meals every day? Yes, indeed. Vitamins A

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and C are not found in meat with one outstanding exception, but are found in fruits and vegetables

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and there is vitamin D which growing children need and usually get insufficient amounts from

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vitamin D fortified milk. The importance of meat is as a source of the B vitamins and iron and

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protein. I see. Now what about liver? You know, you always read something about that. I thought

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that that was especially rich in vitamins and iron. It is. I'm glad you mentioned liver. All kinds of

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liver are unique because they provide not only what you expect to find in meat, but also vitamins A

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and C and appreciable amounts. Liver is the exception then isn't it among meats that you're

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talking about? But let's get back to our problem. Our correspondent wants to know, I take it,

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what foods other than meat supply the protein the body has to have every day for good health.

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What should we tell her? Tell her to find out what the cheaper cuts of meat are and how to prepare

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them for the table. The butcher is able and willing to help. Other good foods for protein are chicken

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and other poultry. She should not forget fish, any kind, and fresh canned frozen or dried.

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Beans and peas are valuable sources of protein, so is peanut butter. Canned baked beans are a

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fine source of protein and iron. Eggs, milk, and milk products except butter, various cheeses,

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and also nuts also apply protein as well as other nutrients. Bread and some of the other grain foods

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cereals are worthy of mention because in the quantities that can be eaten these foods supply

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significant quantities of protein. But I'm answering you the way we should answer a person

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who asks what time it is. We tell them the time, we don't describe the detailed mechanisms of a

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clock. Yet we should elaborate a little upon our answers to questions about foods. We want to make

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sure that people understand the reasons for our replies and also put the information to use.

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Well I understand doctor and I do want to ask you about the differences in nutritional value of the

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different sources of protein you've mentioned. But first let me write some of this down so I

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can remember this and all of the things that you've been talking about today.

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Before I write this report of our discussion with Dr. B, let me suggest that our listeners should tune in next time for another visit with Dr. B.

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We shall discuss protein quality from the point of view of the food buyer for the family. Meanwhile, if you have any questions out there concerning foods and nutrition,

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which you would like us to discuss and answer, please write to this station and address your inquiry to Dr. B,

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care of this station and be sure to include your address and your postal zip code number.

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Well we're pleased to bring you another chapter of our series Eat to Your Health's Content. My name is Bill Grisham.

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Come with me as I interview Dr. B on questions concerning foods and health which have been

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submitted by our listeners. Today's subject is protein quality as suggested by Mrs. Grace Butler of Chicago Heights, Illinois.

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I was hesitant about entering Dr. B's office at Nutrition Dynamics for I found him standing with his back turned to me

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and he was looking out of the window. He must have heard me for he turned instantly and his his face brightened with a warm smile.

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Hello Grisham, come on in. I was just thinking about you. You surprised me, doctor. Come now, I was expecting you.

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As a matter of fact, I was watching that little tugboat pushing several barges along the river and thinking about another office I used to have.

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I could see from my window there at some distance long freight trains where there are many different kinds of cars

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and that got me thinking about the subject you mentioned to me, protein quality.

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Well in what way, doctor? I don't see the connection.

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It's really very simple. The long line of different freight cars reminded me of the structure of proteins.

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All proteins are composed of different amino acids joined to one another in a string like a

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bunch of box cars to make a train, although not in a very straight line. But each amino acid unit is coupled to another

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and there are about 20 or 22 different kinds of these amino acids.

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Well you mean amino acids like Penn Central and Union Pacific and so on?

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That's exactly right. Or close to it, isn't it? Well it has somewhat longer names.

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Yes. Proteins of foods differ because of their different amino acid make-ups.

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The proteins eaten are digested in the body. We can think of this as an uncoupling of the different

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or I should say amino acids. These are absorbed and carried by the blood to the liver and other

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organs and tissues of the body. Here they are sorted out and reassembled to make a protean

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that is characteristic of the human body. The amino acids left over are ultimately burned to

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yield energy and heat. But how does that explain protein quality really? Well a little reflection

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should make the matter clear. If the protein that is eaten contains all the amino acids

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needed by the body and in approximately the right relative proportions for its building of body

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protean, then there are not many food amino acids left over. But if the protein of the food

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contains some essential amino acid in very small quantities, it is going to take a lot more of that

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to meet the body needs and there might be a lot of material left over. I see. Well what are some

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of the high quality proteins, Dr. B.? The white of egg, the protein of milk and cheese, the protein

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of meat including poultry and the proteins of fish and seafoods. These are proteins of animal foods

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which in general are all of the highest nutritional quality. Well now if somebody were to eat only

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these foods of high nutritional quality, how much of this high quality protein though let's say would

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be needed in a day? A good figure to use is 45 grams. This figure may be said to have been

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officially recognized by the Federal Food and Drug Administration when it adopted its U.S.

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recommended daily allowance for nutritional labeling purposes. That's about one and a half

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ounces. For proteins of high quality such as those of eggs, meat, fish, milk, the allowance is then

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45 grams. You can think of that as a requirement of each day. For other proteins that are not of such

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high quality, the allowance is set at 65 grams. I see. So if a food provided in the quantity eaten

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13 grams of protein of fair or good quality, you could say that this was one-fifth I suppose,

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or 20 percent of the amount you should have for good health. Splendid. I like people who can do

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arithmetic. Now tell me what the percentage would be if that 13 grams of protein were the highest

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nutritive quality. Well let's see that would be about 29 percent. Is that close enough, Dr.?

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It's good enough for me. It's clear that the Food and Drug Administration has made it unnecessary

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for all nutritionally labeled foods at least to concern ourselves unduly with the question of

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protein quality. They require a declaration of the protein in terms of the percentages of the

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requirements that are supplied. What we want to get are foods which contribute protein each day

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to equal 100 percent of our needs. Well what about foods that are not nutritionally labeled?

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Don't we have to consider protein quality then? Not very much. And I'll tell you why.

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If an adult were to eat about six and a half grams of high quality protein from animal food

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sauces, then it has been shown that that person is getting all the essential amino acids he needs

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and he doesn't have to pay any attention to the quality of the remaining protein in the diet or

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not much attention. I see. Well can you help our listeners picture six and a half grams of protein,

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Dr.? I think so, but that'll take a little bit of thought. I see. Well I want to think about what

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you've said, Dr. too, and next time maybe we can take up the matter of protein quantity in some detail.

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Well that concludes our visit with Dr. B. today. Be sure to listen to Dr. B. tomorrow

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when he'll discuss, and I promise it, the matter of protein quantity for health. If you have

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questions of your own that you'd like to have answered, be sure to write to Dr. B. Care of

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you.

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We bring you another chapter in the series Eat to Your Health's Content with me, Bill Grisham,

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and Dr. B. Today's question is about the quantity of protein needed for health,

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with particular reference to protein of high quality. This question was submitted by a man,

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this time Mr. Anthony Zuminski of Waukegan, Illinois.

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When I walked into Dr. B.'s pleasant office at Nutrition Dynamics today, I found the good doctor

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with his head bent over a pad of writing paper on the desk, and this time he was watching for me,

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it seemed. He greeted me with unusual warmth. Come on in, Grisham. You're just the man I wanted to

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see. I'm glad to see you too, Dr. B. What's the trouble? I don't know that I would call it

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trouble. It's just these figures. My eyes get tired looking at figures, and I'm not too good

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at arithmetic. We were discussing protein quantity, weren't we? Well, that's right,

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doctor. You had said that about six and a half grams of high quality protein each day was

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sufficient to take care of the body needs for the amino acids it must get from foods. That's correct.

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About six and a half grams of high quality protein from animal food sources supply the

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essential amino acids, as they are called, in sufficient quantity so that we do not have to

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worry about the quality of the proteins of our other foods as a rule. Now that is an

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approximate figure. Many experts would say five or six grams, where I just happened to select six

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and a half grams, and now I wish that I had selected six grams. It would have made the

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arithmetic so much easier. You've been doing some calculations, haven't you? I see them all over

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your writing pad. That's exactly what I've been trying to do. I wanted to show you the quantities

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and common measures of a number of foods with high quality protein supplying six and a half grams.

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Here is my list. You will see that I have only six grams of high quality protein in one or two of

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my examples. Actually, this was suffice for the sake of health. Well, let me see. Suppose I read

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your list, doctor, and you can mention the number of grams of high quality protein supplied by the

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food. I'll start here with one ounce of cheddar cheese. Oh, my favorite cheese, too. That will

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provide about seven grams of protein of excellent quality. Next, what about two and a half ounces of

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cream cottage cheese? Yes, that is cottage cheese mixed with a little cream to make the product more

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acceptable to most persons. That gives you six and three quarter grams of highest quality

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protein. And we have cooked beef here, one ounce. That isn't much meat, is it? No, it's very little,

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but it's enough to provide seven grams of protein of the very highest quality.

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Canned tuna, one ounce only. That gives you eight grams of high quality protein. One egg weighing

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about two ounces in the shell. That's my problem. We allow six grams of excellent quality protein in

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one egg. How can I guess six and a half ounces? Well, what if you scrambled it? Splendid, Grishan,

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we'll scramble our egg with a little added milk. That will give us seven grams of protein of

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indubitably high nutritive quality. Well, I think you may be pulling my leg, but I get the point.

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A little milk, huh? Ah, but there is no point, no but either after you scramble an egg.

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Seriously, though, I think we can appreciate the value of the protein of animal foods. I want to

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call attention to one other matter. What's that, doctor? Remember when we were talking about

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vegetarian diets, I said that informed vegetarians can do all right for themselves. That I do,

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doctor. I have it in my notes here. I should mention that the difficulty with pure vegetarian

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diets is that they are low in vitamin B12, one of the vitamins that ordinarily we don't think about

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when we plan our meals. This vitamin is present in meats and other foods of animal origin.

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It is present in larger quantities in liver than in other foods. It is low or absent from

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most other foods such as those of plant origin. The body has to get vitamin B12 from foods,

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even though only minute quantities are needed. Well, is that why many so-called vegetarians

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include some milk or eggs in their diet? I don't know the reason, but whatever the reason, it is a

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good practice. We have nice long names, incidentally, to describe these

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mixed types of diets. One of them is ovolacto-vegetarian diet. That's a real name.

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Well, thank you, doctor. I think you've given all of us much to think about, believe me. I think I

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can sum this up by saying that while nutritional quality is a very real thing, we ordinarily need

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to not concern ourselves with it.

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Today we continue our discussion with Dr. B. on the amount of protein you should eat and how to get it.

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This is another chapter in the series, Eat to your health's content.

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Well, you know, it was always a pleasure for me to see Dr. B. at the desk in his office at Nutrition Dynamics.

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Today he had an open magazine in his hands, one of the many scientific journals on foods and nutrition to which he subscribes.

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Come in, Grisham, come in. I see you're wearing a new necktie.

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I see you've been reading.

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Yes, it always amazes me to note how many articles of the most diverse nature fill our

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bozing scientific periodicals. It is all, I would say, very good work, very painstakingly performed.

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Well, is there anything new about protein requirements?

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Well, I think there is always something, though, a fresh approach, a new way of looking at old problems.

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That's what makes for progress. You will be surprised, I think, to hear that there has been

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some discussion in certain scientific circles about people getting too much protein.

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Most of our concern, however, is with persons who may not get enough of this essential food stuff.

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Can you tell us how we get enough protein?

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It's really simple, but pay attention as I give you some figures. Suppose in a day

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a person who is an adult in good health consumes two cups of milk, two eggs,

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three ounces of cooked beef. That's not out of the ordinary. That person would receive from the milk

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40 percent of the daily allowance of protein, from the eggs 26 percent, from the beef 51 percent.

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The sum total would be more than 100 percent.

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Actually, I've been adding this, about 117. This would be more than the amount of protein required,

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wouldn't it?

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For an adult man, yes. And for a woman, still a great deal more than she would need.

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A child requires much less. The standard 100 percent as developed by the Food and Drug

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Administration for nutritional labeling purposes was established to allow for those persons with

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the highest requirements. Therefore, it takes care of the needs of everyone in the family.

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Well, now suppose that the person doesn't eat meat.

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Let us hope that they still consume milk and eggs. Let's say two cups of milk, one egg instead of two,

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a cup of baked beans, two slices of bread, one ounce of peanut butter. We would get in percentages

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of the allowances for the adult from the milk 40 percent, from one egg 13 percent, from baked

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beans 23 percent, from the bread and peanut butter 18 percent. Add these figures up and what do you have?

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Well, the total comes to 94 percent.

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Well, that's pretty close to what is needed. In actual practice, there would be small amounts

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of protein supplied by other foods. The total would most certainly be over 100 percent.

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Well, suppose we just add two slices more of bread.

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Splendid! Each slice provides about two grams of protein, or three percent of the recommended

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allowance. Two slices gives us six percent of the allowance. Add this to our 94 percent,

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we have 100 percent right on the nose.

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Ah, so it isn't difficult at all, even without meat.

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It's easy. Now, you do not have to make all these calculations after a while.

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I just use them for illustration. The important thing is to get milk and eggs in the diet.

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There are wonderful foods. So is meat and fish and poultry.

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Well, what about some of the unusual types of diets that people follow? I'm sure you've heard about them.

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Yes, indeed. The protein allowance can be met, but it does require some thought in meal selection

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with many of these diets. These special or unusual diets are best considered

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after we have taken up the more conventional types of meals. When you cut down on meat,

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you cut down not only on protein, but also on riboflavin, niacin, and iron,

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and as we have seen on vitamin B12. When you cut down on milk, you cut down on riboflavin

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and calcium. We have to think of the diet as a whole.

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Well, I take it that by diet you refer to everything a person eats in a day.

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I notice that you have me also using diet in the sense of a pattern of eating.

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Right. Most people think of diet as something restrictive, perhaps unpleasant and distasteful.

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As you say, it is simply the pattern of our eating. Everybody's on a diet.

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I'm sure that's clear. But perhaps we should talk some more about diet at our next meeting.

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Good. I want to mention when time is available, some newer points of view that I get from reading

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the literature of our science. Some of the reports are really exciting.

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Well, thank you, doctor. We look forward to our next visit.

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Tune in next time for another talk in the series, Eat to Your Health's Content. Be sure to mail

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your questions to Dr. B, care of this station, address, and zip code number. Make sure you

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include them. Until then, this is Bill Grisham saying for me and for Dr. B, eat to your health's content.

