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One thing I'm interested in, you've been traveling around the country quite a bit.

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How would you assess the strength of the Republican Party today as compared to let's say last

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November?

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Well, it's stronger.

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It's been getting stronger for the last two and a half years.

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In fact, the ILOC on the last election is one of the best Republican victories since

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28.

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We lost the presidency, but we gained tremendous victories all over the country.

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Senator, if Richard Nixon decides to run for the governorship of California, as Mr. Klein

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indicates he might, will you openly and actively support him in his bid?

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Oh, I can do whatever I can do in California.

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We Arizonans aren't too welcome in California and vice versa because of the water fights.

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Well, then you will support him.

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Oh, sir.

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Can we take that to mean then that you'll also support him if he tries for the presidency

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in 1964?

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Well, I don't think he could.

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If he runs for the governorship in California, he would have to run with one hand on the

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Bible swearing that he wouldn't run in 64 for the presidency.

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It's a four-year job.

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And they're very touchy about that out there.

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So if he goes into it, his presidential aspirations would have to be 68 instead of 64.

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Senator, do you have any comment on the latest Cuban development?

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Castro has upped his demand for more tractors or more money or release fewer prisoners.

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Well, I have no other comments than those I've made.

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I'm against the whole deal where there's one tractor or 5,000 tractors.

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It's unconstitutional and it's immoral.

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I don't know what other grounds you need to be against a thing like that.

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Senator, have you had a chance to comment yet on Senator Mansfield's proposal for a

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free demilitarized Berlin in order to avert possibly World War III?

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No, I haven't commented on it, but I don't...

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On first blush, I don't like the suggestion because it smacks to me of giving in again

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to the Russians.

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I think if we're sincere in our efforts to unite Berlin, that we should be heading the

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other direction instead of giving in to a whim of Khrushchev just to avoid possible trouble.

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Tell us a little more about what this other direction would be or should be.

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Well, the direction...we've had success in Berlin by standing firm and I think firmness

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is the only thing that will pay off.

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It might be in the direction of encouraging the Berlins to get together and we will take

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the risk of what would happen.

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Do you think Mr. Khrushchev is going to give in when confronted with firmness?

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He always has.

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No reason to think that he won't in the future and if he doesn't, that's the risk that we

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have to take.

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Is there a risk of a third nuclear war?

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I don't know if it would be a risk of a nuclear war or risk of a war.

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I'm not worried about that.

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We've risked war before.

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Countries always risk war when they take positions.

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If we're going to...if we think we can get peace in this world without risking something,

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we'll get peace, but it'll be a communist dominated peace and I don't think any American

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wants to live in it.

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Well, Scuttlebutt has it that both Kennedy and Khrushchev spoke in quiet tones which

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many feel is an ominous ring and that both have commitments, way to the west and Khrushchev

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to the east and that both are going to go to war over Berlin.

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It could be.

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It could be.

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Do you have any information as to what the talks...

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No, we haven't heard any more than you've heard about those talks.

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Senator, I wonder if you've assessed whether there's any connection between conservatism

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and the John Byrd Society and whether some of your supporters might be members or whether

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you approve of it or anything like that.

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I can't understand how you can call that society conservative any more than you'd call the

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American Legion conservative.

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The American Legion is against communism.

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The John Byrd Society, as I understand it, is against communism.

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As far as I know, they've never taken any political stands for candidates or philosophies

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and in the absence of that, you can't call them liberal or middle of the road or conservative.

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If they're against communism, well, I'm against communism, so is Hubert Humphrey,

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so is Wayne Morris.

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There's no conservative or liberal position on being against communism.

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You said that if Mr. Nixon runs for the governorship in 1962, it would be very difficult for him

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to run for president in 1964.

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How will this affect your own political aspirations or plans?

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Not a bit.

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I want to get re-elected to the United States Senate.

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Won't bother me a bit.

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You're not a candidate for president at this time or any...

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I never have been and I have no plans of being.

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Senator, would you say that President Kennedy's popularity has waned since November?

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Uh, I don't know if I could say his personal popularity has waned,

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but the popularity of his program has certainly hit the skids.

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It's going downhill about as fast as any program I've ever seen.

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That would mean that the Democratic Party's popularity has gone down, you feel?

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Yes.

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That would be part of the answer.

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Now, it will probably reflect on him in the course of the next three or four months,

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but his personal popularity I find is still rather high.

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A member of the House of Representatives has asked the Attorney General for a ruling

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on the legality of tractors for prisoners deal with Infidel Castro.

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Now, will you press for an immediate ruling or just let it slide until the deal is consummated?

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No, we're pressing for a ruling.

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In fact, there's a good chance of a suit being brought asking for the government to restrain

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in this area.

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This is unconstitutional in my belief.

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It violates the second article of the Constitution.

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And on those grounds, I think that the deal can be denied.

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We want to see it denied.

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I can't believe that the Congress is going to stand idly by and allow this to happen.

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Senator, I wonder if you could assess the, you say the Republican Party's been growing

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in the last two and a half years.

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It's been growing more conservative than liberal.

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Well, when I say growing, it's been growing in strength.

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I think it is the conservative party.

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It's, put it another way, it's the party to the right.

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Conservatism, like liberalism, has its degrees.

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But the Republican Party has no position to take but the conservative position.

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And I think it's growing in that direction.

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Senator, reflecting on the aborted Cuban invasion,

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against whom do you think the blame should be put?

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What is the failure of that?

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I don't think we can put the final blame till we know who

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caused the order to be given to call off the air and cease support.

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When we know that, we'll know the answer.

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You have no such information despite the secrecy of the committee hearings you have?

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Uh, no.

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There's been, to my mind, nothing discussed in that nature.

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The order would have to come, of course, from the President.

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Nothing discussed openly?

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Not that I know of.

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You know nothing?

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No.

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The committee hearings have been...

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That's not going to have the season.

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Pardon?

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Senator Scott claimed that...

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I was on the floor yesterday when he did blame Adlai Stevenson,

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but I have no information to know that that's true.

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Somebody caused that air and sea support to be called off.

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Well, do you think this should be disclosed to the public by the administration?

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I don't see how they're going to avoid it.

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Sooner or later, the cat's got to come out of the bag.

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You think, Senator, they should have used the force?

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Most certainly.

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We should never have started it had we not the intention of going all the way.

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And we wouldn't have needed any more than...

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Very?

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What do we do now, Senator, with Cuba's diplomatic relations?

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What would you do as our next step?

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Well, I don't think you can look at Cuba alone.

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I think it's part of the whole world picture.

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We have to develop a foreign policy that's tough.

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It's going to take care of Cuba as well as Laos, Vietnam,

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Iran, Berlin, and every other troubled spot we get around the world.

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What do you mean by tough?

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It's what I mean, the tough attitude that we back up with action if we have to.

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You mean, sir, we have to use our troops when a situation develops?

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If we have to.

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In other words, keep putting it up to the Russians, fight or not?

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Well, put it up to the Russians.

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If you want to fight and the fight results, it's going to be your fault, not ours.

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You go into a country and bother them, we're going in with you.

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And then do it.

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You think this increases the risk of war?

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What if it does?

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Certainly it increases the risk of war.

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But we can lose this Cold War.

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In fact, we're pretty close to losing it now.

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And when we lose the Cold War, you've lost your freedom

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without pulling a trigger or dropping a bomb.

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How close are we to losing the Cold War, Senator?

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Well, I think another wrong decision or another right decision not implemented,

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and we've lost it.

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And what do you think?

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For instance, if we backed off of Vietnam, if Vietnam is attacked,

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I think you have to forget Laos.

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We got in it too late.

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If we fail to take strong action in anything that develops in Berlin, we've lost it.

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What do you think the next trouble spot will be?

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Colombo Ceylon seems to be swinging over and all that.

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Oh, it's kind of hard to say.

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I would rather suspect just my own hunch would be something

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country like Venezuela, that's just a hunch.

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Senator, one point of clarification.

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You say if this tractor deal goes through,

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that you're predicting some congressional action or some kind of suit, is that right?

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There are many resolutions in the Congress expressing

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dissatisfaction of the Congress in this deal.

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There's efforts being made to stop the export license,

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stop the tax-free status.

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And it's my understanding that there's a group of citizens in Washington

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who will ask the federal court for a restraining order.

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Now that will require the attorney general to get in the act

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and interpret the meaning of the Article 2 of the Constitution on treaty-making powers.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.