WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:24.060 Alright I'm gonna turn him off then. 2 00:00:47.740 --> 00:00:53.060 I don't think that you have any way of justifying it. 3 00:00:55.060 --> 00:00:55.980 I really don't. 4 00:00:55.980 --> 00:00:57.980 So there's, I mean there's nothing that I can do. 5 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:00.680 I don't know, I just... 6 00:01:00.680 --> 00:01:01.000 Okay. 7 00:01:03.140 --> 00:01:05.360 I know, I mean I... 8 00:01:05.360 --> 00:01:05.920 It's just... 9 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:07.440 I'm just investigating things. 10 00:01:07.460 --> 00:01:09.440 You know, I'm trying to... 11 00:01:09.440 --> 00:01:11.620 I'm trying to make art. That's all. 12 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:14.840 I'm... 13 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:15.440 That's all. 14 00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:17.600 You are trying to... 15 00:01:18.240 --> 00:01:19.240 I'm trying to make a film. 16 00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:22.960 You are trying to establish a power relationship. 17 00:01:24.260 --> 00:01:27.200 By filming and taping me. 18 00:01:29.100 --> 00:01:29.520 Because you... 19 00:01:29.520 --> 00:01:31.700 Yeah, there's a little bit of a power relationship. 20 00:01:31.980 --> 00:01:33.420 I mean... 21 00:01:33.420 --> 00:01:35.160 Yeah, okay, I have a camera and you don't. 22 00:01:35.520 --> 00:01:37.040 I have a tape recorder and you don't. 23 00:01:37.080 --> 00:01:37.560 So what? 24 00:01:39.060 --> 00:01:40.660 Well, you don't work in film. 25 00:01:40.800 --> 00:01:42.580 You don't even think that that matters? 26 00:01:42.820 --> 00:01:45.200 I mean, here you're filming a relationship, right? 27 00:01:45.940 --> 00:01:47.040 That's what you're doing? 28 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:47.320 Yeah. 29 00:01:48.820 --> 00:01:51.920 And you're saying that it doesn't matter that in this relationship 30 00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:54.420 if you're the one with the camera and the tape recorder? 31 00:01:56.740 --> 00:01:57.840 It only matters a little bit. 32 00:01:57.860 --> 00:01:58.800 You're saying... 33 00:01:58.800 --> 00:02:01.160 Well, what do you think a relationship is, anyway? 34 00:02:02.980 --> 00:02:03.880 What do you mean? 35 00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:08.760 Here you are invading my space. 36 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:09.960 It's our space. 37 00:02:09.960 --> 00:02:10.960 We both live here. 38 00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:13.160 I can't fit this in here all the time. 39 00:02:13.240 --> 00:02:15.440 You're establishing your supremacy over me. 40 00:02:15.600 --> 00:02:17.660 You're establishing your right 41 00:02:18.220 --> 00:02:20.540 to make art out of my life. 42 00:02:21.660 --> 00:02:22.620 It's my life. 43 00:02:22.980 --> 00:02:25.260 You're just like all those other male filmmakers. 44 00:02:25.500 --> 00:02:26.940 You know, saying, oh, well, you know, 45 00:02:26.940 --> 00:02:29.160 here's this woman, I might as well film her. 46 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:33.180 Well, yeah, other filmmakers have done this kind of thing. 47 00:02:33.200 --> 00:02:33.940 I mean, I don't know. 48 00:02:34.660 --> 00:02:36.820 I mean, I don't think 49 00:02:36.820 --> 00:02:38.580 that there are women objected to it. 50 00:02:41.740 --> 00:02:42.100 Well... 51 00:02:42.100 --> 00:02:42.600 I don't know. 52 00:02:42.820 --> 00:02:45.220 I mean, all I'm trying to do is get at the... 53 00:02:45.220 --> 00:02:46.980 I mean, what I'm trying to do in my films 54 00:02:46.980 --> 00:02:47.960 is get at the truth. 55 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:49.820 And it seems to me that 56 00:02:49.820 --> 00:02:52.160 what's personal between us is personal. 57 00:02:52.660 --> 00:02:54.380 And what I'm trying to do in my film 58 00:02:54.380 --> 00:02:57.700 is to explore my own feelings 59 00:02:57.700 --> 00:02:59.680 and to explore the relationships that I'm in. 60 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:01.920 I think from that I can 61 00:03:01.920 --> 00:03:04.200 find out something, I can put that in film. 62 00:03:04.660 --> 00:03:05.960 And that's really meaningful. 63 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:06.940 That's really important. 64 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:09.960 And you think that that truth exists 65 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:12.400 here in this kitchen 66 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:14.780 with this tape recorder and you and me, right? 67 00:03:16.660 --> 00:03:17.500 Yeah, right now. 68 00:03:17.500 --> 00:03:19.200 Because the truth exists in a vacuum. 69 00:03:20.060 --> 00:03:21.000 Right at this moment, it does. 70 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:22.920 You don't think that the culture has anything to... 71 00:03:22.920 --> 00:03:24.720 that the fact that this is a man's voice 72 00:03:24.720 --> 00:03:27.220 and a woman's voice has anything to do 73 00:03:27.220 --> 00:03:28.960 with, you know, how people 74 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:31.620 are going to relate to it. 75 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:33.840 I'm just making a film about us. 76 00:03:35.820 --> 00:03:38.260 I mean, what does all this other culture stuff 77 00:03:38.260 --> 00:03:39.200 have to do with that? 78 00:03:39.540 --> 00:03:41.860 I mean, that's why I'm making personal films. 79 00:03:41.860 --> 00:03:43.980 That's what I'm saying, because you are not admitting 80 00:03:44.580 --> 00:03:46.820 the kind of power relationships 81 00:03:46.820 --> 00:03:48.540 that exist between you and me, 82 00:03:48.660 --> 00:03:50.320 between men and women in the culture. 83 00:03:50.620 --> 00:03:52.860 You're just not dealing with any of it at all. 84 00:03:53.480 --> 00:03:54.240 You know what I think? 85 00:03:54.300 --> 00:03:56.160 I think that this is one of the problems 86 00:03:56.160 --> 00:03:58.180 that you have, is that 87 00:03:58.180 --> 00:04:00.260 you don't want to deal with something 88 00:04:00.260 --> 00:04:01.460 and so you film it. 89 00:04:01.540 --> 00:04:03.980 And you get a nice distance between 90 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:06.160 yourself and 91 00:04:06.160 --> 00:04:08.400 whatever it is that you don't want to deal with. 92 00:04:09.880 --> 00:04:11.580 I think that's what you're doing. 93 00:04:12.880 --> 00:04:17.260 No, I'm just... 94 00:04:18.020 --> 00:04:21.180 Well, I mean, I don't know. 95 00:04:21.500 --> 00:04:24.940 I mean, you bring up all this stuff about sexism. 96 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:28.380 I mean, can a man make a portrait of a woman 97 00:04:28.380 --> 00:04:29.500 that isn't sexist? 98 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:30.120 99 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:33.320 I mean, you just seem real ass-loot about that. 100 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:35.980 Can a man make a film about a woman? 101 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:38.320 No. 102 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:39.800 I don't think so. 103 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:41.560 Not... 104 00:04:42.260 --> 00:04:43.180 What, can a woman? 105 00:04:43.280 --> 00:04:44.400 Not in this century. 106 00:04:45.280 --> 00:04:46.900 Even a woman could not make a film 107 00:04:46.900 --> 00:04:48.660 of a woman in a non-sexist way. 108 00:04:48.820 --> 00:04:51.540 I mean, there's just no way that we can get away from sexism. 109 00:04:51.880 --> 00:04:53.780 And I wish that these male filmmakers 110 00:04:53.780 --> 00:04:55.740 would stop, you know, putting all these 111 00:04:55.740 --> 00:04:56.900 women in their films. 112 00:04:57.680 --> 00:04:59.180 I wish they would just give up. 113 00:04:59.580 --> 00:05:01.420 I mean, I don't think most of them are even 114 00:05:01.420 --> 00:05:03.340 dealing with sexism in their films 115 00:05:03.340 --> 00:05:04.360 to begin with. 116 00:05:06.760 --> 00:05:07.700 But, you know, 117 00:05:07.780 --> 00:05:09.560 all these... 118 00:05:09.560 --> 00:05:11.080 I mean... 119 00:05:11.080 --> 00:05:13.300 What should you make films about then? 120 00:05:13.500 --> 00:05:15.460 I mean, what... 121 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:19.420 I mean, there's no way that you can use a woman 122 00:05:19.420 --> 00:05:20.940 without making her into an object 123 00:05:20.940 --> 00:05:22.800 and without invading her space. 124 00:05:24.780 --> 00:05:24.960 And it... 125 00:05:24.960 --> 00:05:25.960 You want to make a film about every woman you... 126 00:05:25.960 --> 00:05:27.960 I shouldn't have any women in my films, then. 127 00:05:28.100 --> 00:05:30.840 No, you shouldn't. You should have no women in your films. 128 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:31.760 Well, I... 129 00:05:31.760 --> 00:05:35.400 Well, alright, I mean, I... 130 00:05:35.400 --> 00:05:37.060 You don't think there's going to be any male 131 00:05:37.060 --> 00:05:38.480 fantasies in this film 132 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:40.780 that you plan to make? 133 00:05:40.840 --> 00:05:42.660 No, I'm not trying to make a fantasy film. 134 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:45.360 I'm trying to... You know, this is more like a documentary. 135 00:05:45.700 --> 00:05:47.140 I'm trying to really 136 00:05:47.140 --> 00:05:48.560 record what's really going on. 137 00:05:49.580 --> 00:05:51.320 And you don't think that, 138 00:05:51.320 --> 00:05:53.240 as you said, fantasies 139 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:55.060 have anything to do with 140 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:57.100 what goes on? 141 00:05:58.300 --> 00:05:58.900 You know, I'm dealing 142 00:05:58.900 --> 00:06:00.480 in the everyday 143 00:06:01.060 --> 00:06:02.860 world. I'm not dealing in a fantasy world. 144 00:06:02.900 --> 00:06:04.340 I'm not trying to construct a fantasy. 145 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:06.140 You're not, huh? 146 00:06:06.260 --> 00:06:06.660 No. 147 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:09.000 You're just making a film. 148 00:06:09.480 --> 00:06:09.860 Yeah. 149 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:14.540 Of course, you're always 150 00:06:14.540 --> 00:06:15.840 changing things. 151 00:06:16.940 --> 00:06:18.500 Right? I mean, art is based on selection. 152 00:06:18.880 --> 00:06:19.900 You can't show everything. 153 00:06:20.060 --> 00:06:21.380 You choose what you show. 154 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:24.460 Uh-huh. 155 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:25.060 Yeah. 156 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:28.720 And do you have something in mind 157 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:30.400 for what this film 158 00:06:30.400 --> 00:06:32.600 is going to be like when you finish it? 159 00:06:34.520 --> 00:06:36.120 Yeah, I have a rough idea. 160 00:06:36.940 --> 00:06:38.540 Uh-huh. And you're keeping that 161 00:06:38.540 --> 00:06:40.440 in mind the whole time, right, while you're making 162 00:06:40.440 --> 00:06:42.380 the film. And you think this is 163 00:06:42.380 --> 00:06:43.960 like an accurate... 164 00:06:43.960 --> 00:06:45.640 I think you got me on this one. 165 00:06:46.900 --> 00:06:48.740 You think it's funny, huh? 166 00:06:48.880 --> 00:06:50.520 And I think you're just like all these 167 00:06:50.520 --> 00:06:52.560 other people. You're just completely unconscious. 168 00:06:53.220 --> 00:06:54.360 You think you're making something 169 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:56.600 that is so unique to you 170 00:06:56.600 --> 00:06:58.380 when actually it's just like 171 00:06:58.380 --> 00:07:00.460 everybody else. And you're doing the 172 00:07:00.460 --> 00:07:01.320 same thing. 173 00:07:07.020 --> 00:07:07.940 What can I say? 174 00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:08.860 I'm an artist. 175 00:07:09.460 --> 00:07:10.840 I'm trying to find out 176 00:07:10.840 --> 00:07:12.500 the truth about things. I'm trying to get 177 00:07:12.500 --> 00:07:14.400 that on film. I'm trying to make 178 00:07:14.400 --> 00:07:16.380 things that I think will 179 00:07:16.380 --> 00:07:18.360 make people feel better and 180 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:20.520 learn something about the world and give them more control 181 00:07:20.520 --> 00:07:22.380 over things. I'm trying to 182 00:07:22.380 --> 00:07:24.340 enlarge people's experience with my films. 183 00:07:24.500 --> 00:07:25.860 I mean, that's really important to me. 184 00:07:26.320 --> 00:07:28.240 Okay, you're being this 185 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:30.340 real sensitive, perceptive person, 186 00:07:30.520 --> 00:07:32.340 right? You're trying to show these 187 00:07:32.340 --> 00:07:34.680 things. But I think 188 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:36.340 it doesn't sound 189 00:07:36.340 --> 00:07:38.300 to me like you're being sensitive to 190 00:07:38.300 --> 00:07:40.160 what I think is important, you know? 191 00:07:41.260 --> 00:07:42.420 To the way that 192 00:07:42.420 --> 00:07:44.800 women are presented enough that 193 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:46.540 I would trust you to present 194 00:07:46.540 --> 00:07:47.580 me in that way. 195 00:07:51.860 --> 00:07:54.220 You think that it's alright for me to just 196 00:07:54.220 --> 00:07:56.180 participate in your life, and I think 197 00:07:56.180 --> 00:07:58.020 that I should have a life of my own. 198 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:04.460 You have nothing to say to that, do you? 199 00:08:04.780 --> 00:08:06.140 I'm writing your life. 200 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:08.780 Are we going to end this movie?