WEBVTT

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I don't talk loud on the phone or anything like that.

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He's making it up.

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I can't help it if my voice carries at times.

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I don't know, he's some kind of a nut and gets a thrill.

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No, he gets a thrill out of it.

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Will you guys help me about that?

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He keeps, that's what I mean.

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He gets away with picking on me.

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You shouldn't get away with it.

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What does this guy do?

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I mean, is he, is this, is this, now, you want to, you want to hold it?

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It started, I didn't know it started.

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Yeah, it's going, you just hold it and sit, you know, there you go.

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He just talks.

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There's nothing wrong with my voice.

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Is that guy bothering you?

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No, what's he doing?

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He's making it up.

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Yes, yes, he bothers me in a funny, sadistic way like that.

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Does he follow you around?

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Well, he sort of does.

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You just saw what he did.

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He comes out of the checking room and starts bothering me like that.

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He hides in there.

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He works here in the checking room there and he wants to come at me and grin at me a certain

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way like a queer like this.

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That's what I mean about it, not being a free country and nobody takes my side about

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anything like that.

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And I've been falsely arrested a number of times and on false disorderly conduct charges.

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Now, what, what, what, tell me what they call you when they arrest you.

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Well, when they take me into the station in the back of their police car, they say over

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and over again, Roger Dodger, Roger Dodger, you know, like they're trying to shake me

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up, you know, and they, they, you know, they, they, they, they, you know, all that and stuff

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like that.

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And they pretend that I call the police fascist pigs when I don't call the police fascist pigs.

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And they're using that for an excuse to illegally arrest me and everything like that.

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And people see them and people have seen them shine spotlights on me and the people don't

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care.

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I mean, I don't think that's fair.

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And I can't, the American Civil Liberties Union absolutely refuses to help me and these

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other organizations won't help me at all.

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Even the Legal Aid Bureau won't help me.

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And I'd like to know why the American Civil Liberties Union won't help me.

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Is it because they're a publicity seeking organization?

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I think that that's why they won't help me.

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I can't get a lawyer to take the case.

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And for no reason at all, I can't go to the Holloway restaurant here on Randolph Street.

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And I don't think that's fair either.

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That they can order me out because they can get away with it.

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In other words, for anybody that's seeing the film and listening to my voice, they use

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me as a scapegoat because they know that they can get away with it and because nobody's

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going to defend my rights as an American citizen or take my side.

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And they're using me to get away with it.

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And this has been going on for quite some time.

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And that's why I would like to leave the United States of America and never come back to it

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because I honestly feel that I would be treated as more like a citizen in a place like Austria

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or even Cuba or any other country like that compared to this country, you know, like Denmark

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or Switzerland or the Soviet Union.

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You know, they say that there's supposed to be persecution in Cuba and the Soviet Union,

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but I'm actually being persecuted in the United States.

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So why is it that everything they say bad about the socialist countries like the Soviet

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Union, East Germany, Cuba, Red China, Czechoslovakia happens to be here in this country?

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I think that's a good point.

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Why is it that everything that they say about exiling to Siberia has happened to me here

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in this country, you know, where I get used for some kind of a scapegoat because I look

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harmless or something like that.

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But the only consolation is so that people will know that I'm not paranoid that they're

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watching the film and listening to my voice is that it doesn't happen as often as it used to.

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In other words, I want everybody that's watching this film and listening to my voice to realize

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that I don't think everybody is against me because these things don't happen to me as

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often as they used to, meaning that I'm actually not paranoid.

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But yet it still happens, like a colored guy that yells at me, hey, come here, you know,

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in a cruel way like that, you know, and goes like this with his feet, you know, right after

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he, oh, he yells at me, hey, come here, and then he goes like this with his feet a certain

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way to there.

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In other words, they want to scare me.

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But as I said, it doesn't happen as often as it used to.

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Well, about this, this is where they falsely arrested me, sir, on false, everyone has been

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a false disorderly conduct charge where they use that as a catch-all.

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Did they say you're loitering or something?

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Well, they know me and they harass me and stuff like that.

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And even on the near north side where I live, wagon 6130 is still harassing me, you know.

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They followed me with a wagon and they told me to come here, you know, and everything

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like that.

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And they yell from the...

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They're sadistic, in other words, they're using me for a scapegoat and a clown.

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And they yell from their police truck at you?

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They yell at you?

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Yes, they do.

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Now, you're talking about the cafeteria, too.

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Now, couples come by in the front there.

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There was never a couple that came by?

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Not everyone.

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Not everyone.

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But there's some people who kiss in there?

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Oh, yes, well, like where the King Castle is when I'm sitting there, I don't know, this

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couple, a couple of staff and a man kissed them out and kissed outside on stage.

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I don't know, it embarrasses me to talk about it.

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I mean, it's too bad.

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It's some kind of certain form of sadism.

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I don't know if anybody's watching that would be interested in this and listening to my

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It's a certain type of perversion.

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I don't know.

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And also, I'd like to say that the reason I'm not shaved is because I'm a product of

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this environment and I can't get to my electric razor because I owe rent, you know, and I

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moved.

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That's good.

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Now...

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And it's too bad.

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I wish I knew a lawyer that would help me about this business where they falsely arrest

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me.

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The CE Tulley, who I went to see, an NAACP lawyer at 407 South Dearborn said that he

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would investigate it about this police condition, you know.

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I don't know if he's going to actually help me or not.

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Somebody just told me about him recently.

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Now, are you...

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And I've been getting some help from Sergeant John Walsh of the patrol division.

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He's had some of them suspended for this.

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He's had some of these police suspended for this.

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You know, Sergeant John Walsh of the patrol division at 11 State.

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He's been helping me about some of this stuff.

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Because see, the police know that when they can always do this to me, nobody's going to

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be a witness to that, you know.

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Now, beyond that, could you tell us something about the loneliness of this?

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Oh, yes.

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Oh, yeah.

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And I live all by myself and it's a lonely life.

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I mean, oh, yes, nobody helps anybody.

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You can be laying in the gutter in the street and nobody will even lift a finger to help

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you, you know.

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Just like this friend of mine that lives on the near north side.

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It's a big open jungle where everybody's for themselves and the only thing that counts

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is the almighty buck, the almighty dollar, you know.

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Were you born in Chicago?

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Yes, I was.

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And in the north...

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In what part of Chicago?

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On the north side, I think, on Hitter's Weed.

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Uh-huh.

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Around...

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Or no, I mean around Pratt and Newgard, I'm sorry.

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I think I was born around...

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If I remember correctly, I was born around Pratt and Newgard.

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Are your parents still alive?

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Well, that's another good question.

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I have a stepmother, they're divorced.

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Now they live in Miami and I don't even know their address.

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That's another thing, too.

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Now, what about your girlfriend?

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Do you see her?

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Oh, that's...

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Okay, we'll talk about that.

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She's not actually a girlfriend.

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She's predatory, doesn't appreciate anything I do for her anyway.

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She doesn't appreciate anything I do for her anyway.

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It's such a lonely life.

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You asked me about the loneliness.

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That's a good question.

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You see, you've asked me about the loneliness.

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Well, you see, I try to find somebody like her because it is a lonely life in the city.

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I feel the whole country is lonely, more or less anyway.

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Not only Chicago, but New York and Los Angeles and all over the country is the same thing.

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It's a lot of conformity and everything like that, besides that.

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It's a big open junk one.

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I don't even like rock and roll or baseball, so I try to have her because I feel that the

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people don't know anything anyway, or the majority of the people don't know anything

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anyway.

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You asked me about her, it's a lonely life.

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You asked me about the loneliness.

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Yes, it's a lonely life.

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Everybody just goes their own way.

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They all live in their own little world.

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Is there anything worthwhile in the city at all?

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You go to the Art Institute.

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Oh yes, there are a few things like that.

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There are a few of the FM stations that play classical music and the Art Institute.

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But I don't know anybody that goes there.

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That's another thing.

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You see, I can't...

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This isn't my normal voice.

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This isn't my normal speaking voice, by the way.

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I'm a lot calmer than this.

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I'm saying this for the benefit of the movie audience that will be seeing this and listening

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to my voice.

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I'm usually not this...

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Excited.

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Excited.

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I'm a little tired.

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I'm...

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Did your friend, do you think he would like to say anything or he doesn't like the talk?

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I don't think he would like to.

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Well I do have sort of Marxist views, but when the police falsely arrest me, they don't

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know that until they see that picture of Fidel Castro that I carry.

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In other words, they make me a victim of individualism.

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I like Cuba very much because they don't have any relations with this country.

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I did like China, but I see now that the very same thing that China accuses the Soviet Union

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of, this is my own opinion, they're doing the same thing, you know, by establishing

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relations with this country and everything like that.

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North Korea also is another country that supports the interests of the third world, you know,

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in Cuba and North Korea.

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There's an organization called the Youth Against War and Fascism that I like an awful lot that

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knows of.

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In other words, they feel that the Soviet Union is not playing enough of a revolutionary

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role in the third world.

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Your work in this school seems to be pretty well educated.

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Did you study anywhere or did you just read?

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Well, I am interested in politics and culture and that's why it's a lonely life for me and

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why I try to find this girl who doesn't care about me.

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You see, I'm isolated in other words.

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Even my friend doesn't have the same ideas.

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He thinks that Russia is a dictatorship, but I don't agree with him.

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It depends what kind of a dictatorship it is.

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This is a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie over there.

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It's a dictatorship of the proletariat.

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Of course, the people can't see my friend that's here in the library, but even he doesn't

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have the same ideas I do about the socialist countries, you know, especially Cuba and North

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Korea or any of them for that matter.

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He's part Swedish and Finnish.

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What nationality are you from?

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I'm Russian Jewish.

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How old are you?

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You haven't seen your parents in a long time?

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Well, that's a good question.

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They moved to Miami about three months ago.

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Oh, right.

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I don't even know the address.

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I have a stepmother and a father.

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That's too bad too.

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I've asked them to send me to a different country and they wouldn't do it when they

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were in Illinois.

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Oh yes, when I was illegally arrested before when I was on the near north side, they wouldn't

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even get me out or anything like that.

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What do they arrest you on?

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They arrest me on false disorderly conduct charges because they use that as a catch-all.

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I'm sure that the people that are watching the movie and listening to this would be interested

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in that.

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They can use that as a catch-all, false disorderly conduct charge to cover a false arrest like

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when I have a place to live and I'm not drunk, so what do they make it a plain false disorderly

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conduct charge?

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And so they light on the arrest reports at times too.

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They've picked on me from the Chicago Avenue station quite a bit too, although a lot of

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that has been stopped now.

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I've been getting some help about it.

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Have they ever convicted you of anything?

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I hate to say what's happened to me.

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He sent me to Dr. Kelleher and from there they had the psychiatric institute at 11th

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and State and from there they sent me to the Reed Center.

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That's terrible.

249
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Any questions you have there?

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No, no, that's a mental institution.

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They automatically sent me there and they took my key from me before they put me in

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the room.

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They took my personal property away from me and they took me out there in a wagon with

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my hands handcuffed behind my back.

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I cried and everything.

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00:10:47.820 --> 00:10:48.380
That's terrible.

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I'm really being taken advantage of it.

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I don't think it's fair.