WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:06.520 This is uh... 2 00:00:06.520 --> 00:00:07.300 No airfication. 3 00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:10.560 Bars and Tone is 13 June 85. 4 00:00:10.680 --> 00:00:12.000 We're doing the Ruth Bates documentary. 5 00:00:12.120 --> 00:00:13.640 This is tape number 3. 6 00:00:14.180 --> 00:00:17.680 And this will be line, bars and tone on channel 1. 7 00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:19.180 Channel 2 will be the Lavender microphone 8 00:00:19.180 --> 00:00:20.400 because we mic'd. 9 00:00:20.460 --> 00:00:23.020 Channel 1 is a mix of both boom mics and hear stone 10 00:00:23.020 --> 00:00:23.860 for the next 30 seconds. 11 00:00:24.540 --> 00:00:26.400 Fine. Listen to the last line. 12 00:00:26.540 --> 00:00:27.560 Oh, it's fine. Good. 13 00:00:27.640 --> 00:00:29.140 Things are good. We're moving. You know that. 14 00:00:29.200 --> 00:00:29.720 They often hurt. 15 00:00:29.720 --> 00:00:29.720 16 00:00:32.820 --> 00:00:34.140 I moved two weeks ago. 17 00:00:34.940 --> 00:00:35.360 What a pain. 18 00:00:35.700 --> 00:00:37.360 I like to move. 19 00:00:37.480 --> 00:00:39.820 Well, if you call having boxes stacked up at the ceiling 20 00:00:39.820 --> 00:00:40.780 and moved in, yes. 21 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:43.140 Took me three weeks to find a coffee pot. 22 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:44.740 Sleeve some at work. 23 00:00:46.040 --> 00:00:48.020 We're sanding floors and painting walls 24 00:00:48.020 --> 00:00:49.040 and putting in a new bathroom. 25 00:00:49.620 --> 00:00:51.300 You should take it easy. 26 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:53.680 They call it an expression shock. 27 00:00:54.480 --> 00:00:55.840 I mean it's a big toll on us. 28 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:58.280 And you look, you know, hell, you look 29 00:00:58.280 --> 00:01:03.040 with a sentence that starts, 30 00:01:03.360 --> 00:01:04.980 the first time I saw Ruth Page dance 31 00:01:04.980 --> 00:01:06.680 was in 1934 in Oak Park. 32 00:01:07.060 --> 00:01:08.000 Take it from there. 33 00:01:08.340 --> 00:01:08.760 All right. 34 00:01:09.020 --> 00:01:11.680 Except I'm not sure if it was 1934 at all. 35 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:12.260 I am. 36 00:01:12.580 --> 00:01:15.340 I can't remember the first time 37 00:01:15.340 --> 00:01:16.120 I heard her name. 38 00:01:16.220 --> 00:01:18.200 I can't remember the first time precisely 39 00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:19.320 that I saw her dance. 40 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:20.900 But I know it was with Harold Kreutzberg 41 00:01:20.900 --> 00:01:22.200 and I know it was in Oak Park. 42 00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:25.780 And I remember a few things out of that concert so vividly. 43 00:01:26.600 --> 00:01:28.400 One was her own solo. 44 00:01:28.740 --> 00:01:30.000 She was doing Tropic then. 45 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:32.280 It was probably one of the first times she did it. 46 00:01:32.700 --> 00:01:34.720 And it's a solo that you probably 47 00:01:34.720 --> 00:01:37.040 wouldn't see in this day at all 48 00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:38.780 because it's a mood solo. 49 00:01:39.880 --> 00:01:41.160 She wore an extremely 50 00:01:41.160 --> 00:01:41.780 exotic costume. 51 00:01:42.380 --> 00:01:43.620 Very native, very, 52 00:01:43.980 --> 00:01:45.460 I think midriff probably. 53 00:01:45.540 --> 00:01:47.300 Ruth had an absolutely gorgeous body. 54 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:48.640 Absolutely. 55 00:01:49.460 --> 00:01:51.500 And a mask over that face, 56 00:01:51.500 --> 00:01:53.320 if you can believe, and a beautiful headdress. 57 00:01:53.320 --> 00:01:55.780 It was very mood and very 58 00:01:55.780 --> 00:01:57.840 warm, slow, tropical dance, 59 00:01:57.880 --> 00:01:59.180 if you can believe such a thing. 60 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:01.840 And why such a thing would appeal to a young person 61 00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:03.440 who didn't know very much about dancing, 62 00:02:03.600 --> 00:02:05.740 let alone very much about modern dancing, 63 00:02:05.800 --> 00:02:07.680 which of course I was obviously looking at 64 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:08.720 for the first time. 65 00:02:09.980 --> 00:02:12.220 I don't know, but I remembered as if it were yesterday. 66 00:02:12.640 --> 00:02:13.760 I can remember Kreutzberg, 67 00:02:13.860 --> 00:02:15.340 of course. Everyone remembers him. 68 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:17.740 He did something called the King's Dance 69 00:02:17.740 --> 00:02:19.660 where he was very, he was wired. 70 00:02:19.760 --> 00:02:21.100 A very wiry crown. 71 00:02:21.100 --> 00:02:22.780 And a very noble dance. 72 00:02:22.940 --> 00:02:24.580 And the two of them together were charming. 73 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:26.240 Perfectly beautiful. 74 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:28.300 Can you describe Kreutzberg's dancing? 75 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:31.140 Lots of people have tried and failed. 76 00:02:31.180 --> 00:02:32.740 I don't know that I'll make it either. 77 00:02:32.780 --> 00:02:34.960 He moved like the wind, that's all I can say. 78 00:02:35.480 --> 00:02:37.080 He was strong when he wished to be 79 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:39.280 and pliable when he wished to be, apparently. 80 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:41.940 And of course he had a look. 81 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:43.380 A very, 82 00:02:43.380 --> 00:02:44.740 very definite look. 83 00:02:45.320 --> 00:02:46.180 And so did she. 84 00:02:46.320 --> 00:02:47.860 They were magnificently matched. 85 00:02:48.480 --> 00:02:50.040 The two of them together. 86 00:02:50.900 --> 00:02:52.400 He just moved, that's all. 87 00:02:52.500 --> 00:02:54.880 Very effortless, very quick, as slow as he wished. 88 00:02:55.880 --> 00:02:56.820 Very impressive man. 89 00:02:57.420 --> 00:02:58.480 I saw him much later. 90 00:02:58.480 --> 00:03:00.560 He danced with Ruth here again in Chicago 91 00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:01.940 long after I left the company. 92 00:03:02.500 --> 00:03:04.300 And I believe it was coming to Burana. 93 00:03:04.780 --> 00:03:05.760 He was so impressive. 94 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:07.920 Now, 95 00:03:09.440 --> 00:03:10.440 you met 96 00:03:10.440 --> 00:03:11.620 Ruth then 97 00:03:13.460 --> 00:03:14.320 around when? 98 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:17.320 Well, while I was still in school. 99 00:03:18.500 --> 00:03:20.400 Bentley, my ballet teacher, 100 00:03:21.020 --> 00:03:21.920 was her partner 101 00:03:21.920 --> 00:03:22.980 at that time. 102 00:03:23.580 --> 00:03:25.620 And since I'd always heard of Ruth, 103 00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:27.440 I can't remember 104 00:03:27.440 --> 00:03:28.980 precisely the moment I said, 105 00:03:29.440 --> 00:03:30.420 how do you do, Miss Page? 106 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:33.300 I remember what she looked like, of course. 107 00:03:33.380 --> 00:03:35.440 And I do think one of the first few times 108 00:03:35.440 --> 00:03:37.640 I saw her, she was sitting 109 00:03:37.640 --> 00:03:39.680 directing her court of ballet 110 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:41.020 in the opera house. 111 00:03:41.140 --> 00:03:43.060 I think Bentley had brought me up to meet her. 112 00:03:43.340 --> 00:03:44.860 I wasn't working with the company yet. 113 00:03:44.860 --> 00:03:46.120 I say I was still in school. 114 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:48.760 I remember the first time I heard of her, 115 00:03:49.160 --> 00:03:51.060 I remembered it while I was talking about 116 00:03:51.060 --> 00:03:52.980 Crotsburg. She did a long 117 00:03:52.980 --> 00:03:54.900 time ago, before I was ever 118 00:03:54.900 --> 00:03:56.760 taken anywhere, a dance called 119 00:03:56.760 --> 00:03:58.700 the flapper in the quarterback with 120 00:03:58.700 --> 00:04:01.080 Paul Dupont. Now, you see, Ruth did Americana 121 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:03.020 long before anybody ever thought of. 122 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:04.800 And the flapper in the quarterback 123 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:07.480 was apparently an all-out 124 00:04:07.480 --> 00:04:08.780 hit. Because 125 00:04:08.780 --> 00:04:10.740 my mother saw it at probably 126 00:04:10.740 --> 00:04:12.460 the Drama League, which she belonged to. 127 00:04:12.460 --> 00:04:14.540 It was somewhere downtown. She came back 128 00:04:14.540 --> 00:04:16.460 raving and singing and carrying on 129 00:04:16.460 --> 00:04:18.400 about Ruth Page and some man 130 00:04:18.400 --> 00:04:20.500 in the flapper in the quarterback. 131 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:22.720 I never saw it. I'm sorry. 132 00:04:23.380 --> 00:04:24.980 But I certainly heard about it. 133 00:04:25.380 --> 00:04:26.220 Your mother liked it? 134 00:04:26.400 --> 00:04:28.660 Adored it. Thought it was perfectly wonderful. 135 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:30.440 But of course, the point 136 00:04:30.440 --> 00:04:32.520 with that is that she was doing jazz 137 00:04:32.520 --> 00:04:34.460 and American themes and things that you see 138 00:04:34.460 --> 00:04:36.760 every day in America long before 139 00:04:37.380 --> 00:04:38.800 everybody else did 140 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:40.440 Billy the Kid or 141 00:04:40.440 --> 00:04:42.440 Jamil with her rodeo 142 00:04:43.080 --> 00:04:44.320 and whatnot, long before. 143 00:04:44.540 --> 00:04:45.900 Oh, it's true. She was 144 00:04:46.440 --> 00:04:48.020 first at a great number of different things. 145 00:04:48.140 --> 00:04:49.100 First in many fields. 146 00:04:49.760 --> 00:04:52.160 So you were with Bentley 147 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:53.860 and you met her. 148 00:04:55.100 --> 00:04:56.940 She was choreographing 149 00:04:56.940 --> 00:04:58.340 for the opera company. 150 00:04:59.540 --> 00:05:00.880 And the opera company, 151 00:05:01.140 --> 00:05:02.620 the first year I was in it, I 152 00:05:02.620 --> 00:05:04.500 tried out and all with the usual case 153 00:05:04.500 --> 00:05:06.660 of nerves and got in the company and so forth. 154 00:05:06.840 --> 00:05:10.420 Very proud of myself. Well, that's a 155 00:05:10.420 --> 00:05:12.360 smaller in your life than when you walk on that 156 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:14.020 great huge opera stage for the first time. 157 00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:16.160 It's enormous. It's the biggest thing you've ever seen. 158 00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:17.940 And you feel just about so high. 159 00:05:19.140 --> 00:05:20.520 We had that year 160 00:05:20.520 --> 00:05:22.280 a very good company. I think 161 00:05:22.280 --> 00:05:24.700 she had a lot of the girls, I remember 162 00:05:24.700 --> 00:05:26.520 particularly from the older 163 00:05:26.520 --> 00:05:28.460 company, which had been in the opera 164 00:05:28.460 --> 00:05:30.540 ballet. And they were very 165 00:05:30.540 --> 00:05:32.380 experienced, very smooth 166 00:05:32.380 --> 00:05:34.620 and knew a great deal about the opera, 167 00:05:34.640 --> 00:05:36.440 which of course is a field in itself. 168 00:05:36.900 --> 00:05:38.220 They had to learn all new ballets. 169 00:05:38.220 --> 00:05:40.080 Well, they'd done Ruth's repertoire. 170 00:05:40.180 --> 00:05:42.580 I wasn't there her first year, but my first year. 171 00:05:42.880 --> 00:05:44.340 She still had girls from 172 00:05:44.340 --> 00:05:45.760 the Novikov days and so forth. 173 00:05:47.440 --> 00:05:48.700 Your first year was when, Betsy? 174 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:49.400 My first year? 175 00:05:51.960 --> 00:05:52.920 Late 30s. 176 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:53.840 Late 30s? 177 00:05:55.140 --> 00:05:56.480 Out of high school. 178 00:05:56.880 --> 00:05:57.720 Out of school. 179 00:05:58.980 --> 00:06:00.340 I went to Northwestern 180 00:06:00.340 --> 00:06:02.320 one year, but I didn't finish it. I wanted to do 181 00:06:02.320 --> 00:06:04.620 other things. Northwestern was 182 00:06:04.620 --> 00:06:06.440 a perfectly charming school, but it was very much 183 00:06:06.440 --> 00:06:08.980 like a musical comedy and that was not what I had in mind 184 00:06:08.980 --> 00:06:10.580 at that point, although it was later. 185 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:13.300 You mean they were into musical comedy? 186 00:06:13.400 --> 00:06:14.060 They were doing musical comedy? 187 00:06:14.060 --> 00:06:16.760 They did that, but the school itself was like 188 00:06:16.760 --> 00:06:17.500 off stage set. 189 00:06:18.280 --> 00:06:20.740 And it wasn't as interesting as the 190 00:06:20.740 --> 00:06:22.320 opera was to me at that point. 191 00:06:22.540 --> 00:06:24.100 So over my parents' 192 00:06:25.140 --> 00:06:26.660 hysterical objections, I did 193 00:06:26.660 --> 00:06:28.520 not do another year at the school. 194 00:06:29.260 --> 00:06:30.420 At any rate, the repertoire 195 00:06:30.420 --> 00:06:32.360 at that point was perfectly wonderful. 196 00:06:32.780 --> 00:06:34.960 And Ruth's opera ballets were, I think, 197 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:37.880 much better 198 00:06:37.880 --> 00:06:39.260 than anything I've seen 199 00:06:39.260 --> 00:06:40.680 since in the opera. 200 00:06:41.220 --> 00:06:42.960 She had the taste to fit them in, 201 00:06:44.320 --> 00:06:45.240 drama to make them 202 00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:47.320 good, and 203 00:06:47.320 --> 00:06:49.320 just the all-around style 204 00:06:49.320 --> 00:06:50.960 so that the ballet did not 205 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:53.080 interrupt the opera 206 00:06:53.080 --> 00:06:54.780 as much as it added to it. 207 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:57.000 Lots of them interrupted, you know, 208 00:06:57.020 --> 00:06:58.980 and they haven't got the look. 209 00:06:59.620 --> 00:07:01.260 You're not supposed to dance in tutus 210 00:07:01.260 --> 00:07:03.140 and toe shoes in Sampson and Delilah 211 00:07:03.140 --> 00:07:05.560 and then wiggle a little when the sexy music comes. 212 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:08.880 Her Sampson was the real thing, 213 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:10.200 a real bacchanal. 214 00:07:10.540 --> 00:07:12.220 It was kind of scary as a matter of fact. 215 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:13.940 Tell me about it. 216 00:07:14.540 --> 00:07:17.800 Well, the movement in the ballet 217 00:07:18.440 --> 00:07:21.240 was, I don't think you'd call it archaic, 218 00:07:21.260 --> 00:07:22.840 but it was certainly more typical 219 00:07:22.840 --> 00:07:24.880 of how people might have moved 220 00:07:24.880 --> 00:07:26.960 in that day and age than anything 221 00:07:26.960 --> 00:07:28.000 I've ever seen since. 222 00:07:28.300 --> 00:07:31.480 The music is a little fancy-dancy, if you recall it. 223 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:33.720 But Ruth had this sort of movement, 224 00:07:33.880 --> 00:07:35.240 you know, and very sharp, 225 00:07:35.300 --> 00:07:37.600 very angular, and the bacchanal 226 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:38.720 was the real thing. 227 00:07:39.500 --> 00:07:41.560 Parents, when they saw their daughters 228 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:43.480 courting around, were always a bit 229 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:45.580 put off by this, like, 230 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:47.080 who is that young man, you know? 231 00:07:47.400 --> 00:07:49.300 But really, what dancers are doing 232 00:07:49.300 --> 00:07:51.680 in a case like that is going two, three, four 233 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:53.480 portions, something else, and you don't 234 00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:55.200 think anything about it at all. 235 00:07:55.540 --> 00:07:57.400 Ruth and Bentley were absolutely magnificent 236 00:07:57.400 --> 00:07:59.560 in that. Of course, they both looked absolutely 237 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:01.520 wonderful, very exotic, 238 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:02.820 very much imperial. 239 00:08:04.080 --> 00:08:05.760 Thais was another one where they looked 240 00:08:05.760 --> 00:08:07.600 I can't remember that ballet. That was the 241 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:09.500 first time on the stage, and I was probably 242 00:08:09.500 --> 00:08:11.220 so absolutely beside myself. 243 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:13.640 I can't remember a step of it. Some of the 244 00:08:13.640 --> 00:08:15.820 other ones I actually can remember. 245 00:08:16.440 --> 00:08:17.580 But Thais was 246 00:08:17.580 --> 00:08:19.820 all a great blur. But I know that it was 247 00:08:19.820 --> 00:08:21.480 considered Thais rather shocking 248 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:23.660 at the time. They had their pictures in the 249 00:08:23.660 --> 00:08:25.660 paper, I recall, because 250 00:08:25.660 --> 00:08:27.520 both of them, as I mentioned before, 251 00:08:27.520 --> 00:08:29.060 were absolutely marvelous bodies. 252 00:08:29.280 --> 00:08:31.080 We were wearing very, very little at the time. 253 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:33.700 And, of course, at this time it would mean 254 00:08:33.700 --> 00:08:35.640 absolutely nothing. Bentley was 255 00:08:35.640 --> 00:08:37.440 tastefully acquired, attired 256 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:39.680 in what sort of looked like a drapery thing 257 00:08:39.680 --> 00:08:41.200 of a tassel 258 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:43.400 here, and very little else. 259 00:08:44.560 --> 00:08:45.800 And I can't 260 00:08:45.800 --> 00:08:47.440 imagine what Ruth had on. Not 261 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:49.500 much, probably a flesh-colored 262 00:08:49.500 --> 00:08:51.480 leotard, as I recall. I think that's 263 00:08:51.480 --> 00:08:53.700 right. And a huge long red scarf 264 00:08:53.700 --> 00:08:55.740 which covered her up here and trailed down the back, 265 00:08:55.740 --> 00:08:58.160 which was not necessary at all, of course, 266 00:08:58.180 --> 00:08:59.540 but looked absolutely wonderful. 267 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:01.860 And the 268 00:09:01.860 --> 00:09:03.620 papers indeed took pictures of this. 269 00:09:03.680 --> 00:09:05.740 She rather stole the show from Helen Jepson or 270 00:09:05.740 --> 00:09:06.740 whoever it was. 271 00:09:07.880 --> 00:09:08.780 It looked wonderful. 272 00:09:10.660 --> 00:09:11.820 Thais, they don't do 273 00:09:11.820 --> 00:09:13.040 very much anymore. 274 00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:15.840 She had a repertoire they don't do very much 275 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:17.800 anymore that year, too. L'Ajuive was 276 00:09:17.800 --> 00:09:19.900 another one that was in the 277 00:09:19.900 --> 00:09:21.840 season that year. Very 278 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:23.820 interesting ballet. Maillabère, I think. 279 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:25.160 And 280 00:09:26.060 --> 00:09:27.720 that ballet is adorable. 281 00:09:28.040 --> 00:09:29.900 But the operas she did had great style 282 00:09:29.900 --> 00:09:32.340 and great taste. Style and taste 283 00:09:33.140 --> 00:09:33.980 don't sound 284 00:09:33.980 --> 00:09:36.020 very exciting when you apply them to a 285 00:09:36.020 --> 00:09:38.320 dancer, but actually they're very important. 286 00:09:39.420 --> 00:09:40.200 The style 287 00:09:40.800 --> 00:09:41.980 is the way you 288 00:09:41.980 --> 00:09:44.040 look and the impact that you have. 289 00:09:45.700 --> 00:09:45.900 And 290 00:09:45.900 --> 00:09:47.780 style also, I think, 291 00:09:47.860 --> 00:09:49.940 has a great deal to do with the fitness of things, 292 00:09:50.160 --> 00:09:51.560 how everything goes. 293 00:09:51.560 --> 00:09:54.100 The taste, of course, definitely has to do 294 00:09:54.100 --> 00:09:55.240 with the fitness of things. 295 00:09:56.340 --> 00:09:57.800 But everything she did was 296 00:09:57.800 --> 00:09:59.260 always all in a unit. 297 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:01.600 And always all fit together. 298 00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:03.480 The music was always perfect. 299 00:10:03.620 --> 00:10:05.720 The costumes were always perfect. 300 00:10:06.060 --> 00:10:07.680 In Lacame, she had 301 00:10:07.680 --> 00:10:09.920 her own East Indian costumes for us. 302 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:12.300 She traveled a lot 303 00:10:12.300 --> 00:10:14.040 in the East. 304 00:10:14.460 --> 00:10:15.440 And had a whole 305 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:17.040 truck full of them. 306 00:10:17.540 --> 00:10:19.340 And had Siamese costumes 307 00:10:19.340 --> 00:10:21.520 with a little Siamese dance 308 00:10:21.520 --> 00:10:23.220 in the middle of it, which the ballerina 309 00:10:23.220 --> 00:10:25.240 Bettina Rosé did. And our 310 00:10:25.240 --> 00:10:27.440 costumes were real saris. 311 00:10:27.660 --> 00:10:29.420 And of course she taught us exactly how to 312 00:10:29.420 --> 00:10:31.240 put them on and how to hold them when we danced. 313 00:10:31.500 --> 00:10:32.140 And so forth. 314 00:10:33.060 --> 00:10:34.520 What was Ruth, 315 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:37.400 what did Ruth look like when she performed? 316 00:10:37.920 --> 00:10:38.360 Stunning. 317 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:40.400 Absolutely marvelous. 318 00:10:42.400 --> 00:10:43.500 Betsy, I wish you could start 319 00:10:43.500 --> 00:10:45.260 again and you would say Ruth looked 320 00:10:45.260 --> 00:10:47.400 stunning when she performed. Or how did Ruth 321 00:10:47.400 --> 00:10:49.020 look when she performed? Stunning. 322 00:10:49.620 --> 00:10:51.400 Just so we have it. Ruth looked absolutely 323 00:10:52.020 --> 00:10:53.620 marvelous when she performed. 324 00:10:53.800 --> 00:10:55.660 Her makeup was completely 325 00:10:55.660 --> 00:10:57.080 suited for her. 326 00:10:58.460 --> 00:10:59.200 You wouldn't 327 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:01.400 describe her face as strong. 328 00:11:01.520 --> 00:11:03.360 She's the most feminine of women. 329 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:05.580 But it's a face that 330 00:11:05.580 --> 00:11:07.500 projects right smack to the 331 00:11:07.500 --> 00:11:08.620 back row of the house. 332 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:11.720 There have been a few other faces like that. 333 00:11:12.220 --> 00:11:13.400 Catherine Cornell had a face 334 00:11:13.400 --> 00:11:15.100 like that. You could see it for miles. 335 00:11:15.100 --> 00:11:17.840 Maria Callas had a face like that. 336 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:20.000 And name any more I can't. 337 00:11:20.460 --> 00:11:21.640 Garbo, if she was on the stage, 338 00:11:21.680 --> 00:11:23.700 would probably have had a face like that. 339 00:11:24.220 --> 00:11:25.240 But Ruth's makeup, 340 00:11:25.640 --> 00:11:27.940 I think she told me once that Remi 341 00:11:27.940 --> 00:11:29.660 Remesov designed her 342 00:11:29.660 --> 00:11:31.060 makeup and close up 343 00:11:31.060 --> 00:11:32.560 it was rather blurry. 344 00:11:34.900 --> 00:11:35.500 Beautiful 345 00:11:35.500 --> 00:11:36.780 make-up of course. 346 00:11:37.400 --> 00:11:39.620 The base makeup and then her eyebrows 347 00:11:39.620 --> 00:11:41.560 and eyes were 348 00:11:42.340 --> 00:11:43.540 not sharp 349 00:11:43.540 --> 00:11:45.240 lines drawn but rather blurred 350 00:11:46.580 --> 00:11:47.700 and soft 351 00:11:47.700 --> 00:11:48.920 and out. 352 00:11:49.420 --> 00:11:51.540 And then of course a very lovely mouth 353 00:11:51.540 --> 00:11:53.540 and pretty make-up. That was all there was 354 00:11:53.540 --> 00:11:55.320 to it. Not very 355 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:57.700 complicated. She didn't need too complicated 356 00:11:57.700 --> 00:11:59.620 a makeup. Her hair was 357 00:11:59.620 --> 00:12:01.520 interesting. It was always straight 358 00:12:01.520 --> 00:12:03.720 and she wore it in a very typical 359 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:05.720 almost, it wasn't a 360 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:07.580 page boy, it was pretty straight and just curved 361 00:12:07.580 --> 00:12:09.680 in below the jaw. She'd shortened 362 00:12:10.280 --> 00:12:11.360 it gradually 363 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:13.720 and now of course it's what we used to call 364 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:15.460 an attanian cut. Very short 365 00:12:15.460 --> 00:12:17.000 and very charming and very sharp. 366 00:12:17.480 --> 00:12:18.980 It was long then and also 367 00:12:18.980 --> 00:12:21.560 longer and also so that she could put it back 368 00:12:21.560 --> 00:12:23.280 and put it in a ballerina knot if she wished. 369 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:27.520 But her appearance on the stage was 370 00:12:27.520 --> 00:12:29.360 elegant. I remember her 371 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:31.760 most vividly 372 00:12:31.760 --> 00:12:33.360 because probably we 373 00:12:34.100 --> 00:12:35.460 oh we saw her 374 00:12:35.460 --> 00:12:37.460 that way so often. In the opening of Love 375 00:12:37.460 --> 00:12:39.360 Song, she 376 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:41.660 entered after the first number 377 00:12:41.660 --> 00:12:43.680 after we did the first 378 00:12:43.680 --> 00:12:45.100 number and she wore 379 00:12:45.100 --> 00:12:47.800 long black ballet costume 380 00:12:47.800 --> 00:12:49.480 low cut. She changed the 381 00:12:50.300 --> 00:12:51.880 neckline a few times. 382 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:53.480 Low cut it sometimes with 383 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:55.780 white flowers around the side. 384 00:12:56.540 --> 00:12:57.640 And a veil was down 385 00:12:57.640 --> 00:12:59.580 over her face when she made the entrance and 386 00:12:59.580 --> 00:13:01.460 she put it up shortly after 387 00:13:01.460 --> 00:13:03.540 her first entrance. But 388 00:13:03.540 --> 00:13:05.780 it was very dramatic and so 389 00:13:05.780 --> 00:13:07.780 black and white and so 390 00:13:07.780 --> 00:13:09.200 such an impact. 391 00:13:09.800 --> 00:13:10.560 Very stunning. 392 00:13:11.420 --> 00:13:13.840 Can you describe her as 393 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:14.940 a dancer? 394 00:13:17.280 --> 00:13:17.940 Describing 395 00:13:17.940 --> 00:13:19.480 Ruth as a dancer 396 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:21.780 is very difficult 397 00:13:22.400 --> 00:13:24.100 because she had such a variety. 398 00:13:24.660 --> 00:13:25.840 She did so many different 399 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:28.060 things. The first 400 00:13:28.060 --> 00:13:29.820 time in Tropic I saw her 401 00:13:29.820 --> 00:13:31.740 I remember being languid, 402 00:13:31.940 --> 00:13:33.840 slow. Then she would do 403 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:35.880 something like the, oh she had some 404 00:13:35.880 --> 00:13:37.960 little caricature dances which 405 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:39.920 were fast, very very fast. 406 00:13:40.400 --> 00:13:41.980 She did Zephyr and Flora 407 00:13:41.980 --> 00:13:43.880 with Bentley which was one of their famous 408 00:13:44.800 --> 00:13:45.900 patadeuses together 409 00:13:45.900 --> 00:13:47.920 which was a 410 00:13:47.920 --> 00:13:49.080 an amusing 411 00:13:49.880 --> 00:13:51.200 what you call take off 412 00:13:51.880 --> 00:13:53.820 old formal dances 413 00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:56.060 which was enchantingly funny. They both 414 00:13:56.060 --> 00:13:57.900 were very funny in it. Then she 415 00:13:57.900 --> 00:13:59.680 was very fast in Love Song 416 00:13:59.680 --> 00:14:01.880 and in Tristan and his soldiers she was very 417 00:14:03.180 --> 00:14:04.180 statuesque and 418 00:14:04.180 --> 00:14:04.640 magic. 419 00:14:06.420 --> 00:14:08.500 In Gold Standard she was the perfect 420 00:14:09.260 --> 00:14:09.780 soubrette. 421 00:14:12.300 --> 00:14:13.440 Her ballet work 422 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:15.220 her classical ballet 423 00:14:15.940 --> 00:14:16.860 point work 424 00:14:16.860 --> 00:14:18.300 she always 425 00:14:18.300 --> 00:14:20.660 mixed with modern 426 00:14:20.660 --> 00:14:22.380 movement. Her movement was 427 00:14:22.380 --> 00:14:24.560 very interesting. She was 428 00:14:24.560 --> 00:14:26.720 she blended a good deal of it in her style. 429 00:14:27.220 --> 00:14:28.540 So that you never saw her 430 00:14:28.540 --> 00:14:30.300 do an absolutely classical role. I never 431 00:14:30.300 --> 00:14:32.360 did. I saw her do classical work in class where 432 00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:34.080 everybody's working. You can't 433 00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:36.400 that's different. You're trying hard and doing 434 00:14:36.400 --> 00:14:38.400 a little bit beyond what you can do. 435 00:14:39.380 --> 00:14:40.560 She was more 436 00:14:40.560 --> 00:14:42.400 like a 437 00:14:42.400 --> 00:14:43.380 modern dancer. 438 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:46.060 But on the other hand her background was 439 00:14:46.060 --> 00:14:46.640 classical. 440 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:50.040 She was very 441 00:14:50.040 --> 00:14:52.180 individual and that 442 00:14:52.180 --> 00:14:53.900 is the best I can manage. 443 00:14:54.660 --> 00:14:55.940 And invariably colorful. 444 00:14:57.100 --> 00:14:58.060 Still. Yeah, oh still. 445 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:00.380 Yes still. Is there a dancer 446 00:15:00.380 --> 00:15:02.380 today that you can think of who 447 00:15:03.160 --> 00:15:04.420 resembles Ruth in 448 00:15:04.420 --> 00:15:06.720 any way at all? Looks like her, moves like her? 449 00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:08.420 People 450 00:15:08.420 --> 00:15:09.920 can imitate her. 451 00:15:10.940 --> 00:15:12.780 No, nobody looks like her. 452 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:14.500 I don't think. Dancers all 453 00:15:14.500 --> 00:15:15.700 look alike now. I can't 454 00:15:16.760 --> 00:15:18.320 there's some small 455 00:15:20.520 --> 00:15:21.140 Ruth's 456 00:15:21.140 --> 00:15:21.840 no 457 00:15:22.380 --> 00:15:24.480 I can't think of anybody. I was 458 00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:26.320 thinking of Cynthia Ann 459 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:28.300 Roses who did Frankie with 460 00:15:28.300 --> 00:15:30.440 the Cincinnati Ballet. And there was 461 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:32.260 one passage in that ballet which 462 00:15:32.260 --> 00:15:34.320 I saw her do where she got such 463 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:36.280 a close imitation of 464 00:15:36.280 --> 00:15:37.800 Ruth and she 465 00:15:37.800 --> 00:15:40.000 did the role precisely 466 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:42.440 in that way and also with the heart 467 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:44.220 you see. You can't just imitate her. 468 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:45.860 You have to do it the same. 469 00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:48.320 She got pretty close once but she doesn't 470 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:49.600 look at all like her. 471 00:15:50.300 --> 00:15:51.900 No, she's one of a kind. 472 00:15:53.040 --> 00:15:54.440 Ruth is truly one of a kind. 473 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:56.220 There's no one I can think of that comes anywhere 474 00:15:56.220 --> 00:15:56.380 near. 475 00:15:57.760 --> 00:15:59.840 Are you trying to say I'm going to change the set? 476 00:15:59.980 --> 00:16:02.140 No, I'm trying to plug my nose. 477 00:16:02.520 --> 00:16:03.580 Oh, you're trying to unplug your nose? 478 00:16:03.800 --> 00:16:06.040 Sorry. Good for the archives. 479 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:08.180 Good for the archives. But this is great. 480 00:16:08.260 --> 00:16:09.300 This is going absolutely great. 481 00:16:09.740 --> 00:16:11.720 Talk a little bit, if you can, 482 00:16:13.380 --> 00:16:14.680 about Ruth's personality. 483 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:16.080 The personality that you 484 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:16.480 projected. 485 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:20.300 The personality that 486 00:16:20.300 --> 00:16:22.160 Ruth projected again was 487 00:16:22.160 --> 00:16:23.620 different every time. 488 00:16:24.300 --> 00:16:26.440 Her projection was enormous. 489 00:16:26.980 --> 00:16:28.260 And that's what we called it. 490 00:16:28.280 --> 00:16:29.780 I don't know what they're calling it now. 491 00:16:30.100 --> 00:16:32.280 But projection is exactly the right word 492 00:16:32.280 --> 00:16:34.020 for the way she 493 00:16:34.020 --> 00:16:34.700 came across. 494 00:16:36.140 --> 00:16:38.100 In Frankie and Johnny, for instance, 495 00:16:38.160 --> 00:16:40.100 which is I think one of her greatest 496 00:16:40.100 --> 00:16:42.120 performances because it was such a 497 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:43.860 completely grounded character. 498 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:45.940 The ballet itself is bawdy. 499 00:16:46.140 --> 00:16:46.700 It's interesting. 500 00:16:47.380 --> 00:16:49.400 It's got a great deal to it. 501 00:16:49.760 --> 00:16:52.000 But Ruth's characterization in 502 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:53.780 that hat was 503 00:16:53.780 --> 00:16:55.980 she looked like a hot little number 504 00:16:55.980 --> 00:16:57.460 all right in the mini skirt 505 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:00.040 and the shocking pink top 506 00:17:00.040 --> 00:17:01.800 and a mad hat. 507 00:17:01.880 --> 00:17:03.940 I think lace stockings probably. 508 00:17:04.620 --> 00:17:05.900 But she had 509 00:17:05.900 --> 00:17:08.040 also in that characterization 510 00:17:08.040 --> 00:17:10.000 and in the way she projected 511 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.400 a rather vulnerable 512 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:14.200 side to that 513 00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:16.420 character which made it occasionally 514 00:17:16.420 --> 00:17:17.980 slightly pathetic in the different 515 00:17:17.980 --> 00:17:20.120 circumstances which made Frankie 516 00:17:20.120 --> 00:17:21.880 a real person. 517 00:17:22.460 --> 00:17:24.440 And that was a 518 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:26.140 perfectly magnificent performance 519 00:17:26.140 --> 00:17:28.440 when you think back on it. 520 00:17:28.840 --> 00:17:30.100 It was thrown 521 00:17:30.100 --> 00:17:32.440 in a contrast too by 522 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:34.300 the people who worked with her. 523 00:17:34.540 --> 00:17:36.260 She had a bartender who 524 00:17:36.260 --> 00:17:38.180 was a height of vulgarity 525 00:17:38.180 --> 00:17:40.040 and rather threatening which of course 526 00:17:40.040 --> 00:17:41.960 brought out the poignancy of her character 527 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:43.140 in that particular scene. 528 00:17:44.040 --> 00:17:45.940 Bentley as usual was extremely 529 00:17:45.940 --> 00:17:48.120 complimentary to her. He was 530 00:17:48.120 --> 00:17:49.940 very flashy and 531 00:17:49.940 --> 00:17:51.600 treated her exactly the way that you would 532 00:17:51.600 --> 00:17:53.200 expect that kind of a man to. 533 00:17:53.360 --> 00:17:55.580 He was excellent. Nellie Bly was 534 00:17:55.580 --> 00:17:58.080 a cool number, extremely cool 535 00:17:58.080 --> 00:17:59.940 which contrasted. If you'd ever seen 536 00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:02.160 a pragmatic prostitute 537 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:04.200 Sandy Devine was doing it in that 538 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:06.220 part. And it was a wonderful 539 00:18:06.220 --> 00:18:07.760 contrast with Ruth Roll 540 00:18:07.760 --> 00:18:10.240 which was so 541 00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:10.880 dramatic 542 00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:13.560 so passionate 543 00:18:14.120 --> 00:18:16.600 and so poignant in parts. 544 00:18:16.600 --> 00:18:19.920 In Love Song she was extremely poetic. 545 00:18:20.180 --> 00:18:20.780 I saw her do that 546 00:18:20.780 --> 00:18:22.140 many times too. 547 00:18:22.560 --> 00:18:24.400 And in Guns and Castanets 548 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:26.440 which is I think one of the best ballets 549 00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:28.620 that she did during the time I was with her. 550 00:18:28.620 --> 00:18:30.620 I loved that ballet. She did Carmen. 551 00:18:30.660 --> 00:18:32.780 That was Carmen of course. And she's a perfect 552 00:18:32.780 --> 00:18:34.440 Carmen. She's absolutely 553 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:35.800 perfect in Carmen. 554 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:38.680 Spitfire and 555 00:18:39.700 --> 00:18:40.220 demanding, 556 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:42.680 spoiled, arrogant. 557 00:18:43.580 --> 00:18:44.580 She's magnificent 558 00:18:44.580 --> 00:18:46.140 in it. She does. 559 00:18:46.520 --> 00:18:48.580 She's done Carmen several times. I think 560 00:18:48.580 --> 00:18:50.220 it's probably because it suits her. 561 00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:52.920 Four times. Four times actually, yes. 562 00:18:53.780 --> 00:18:54.760 What do you remember 563 00:18:54.760 --> 00:18:56.820 of Guns and Castanets specifically? 564 00:18:57.380 --> 00:18:58.520 I remember 565 00:18:58.520 --> 00:19:00.320 probably a good deal about it. 566 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:02.520 By that time I had 567 00:19:02.520 --> 00:19:04.660 done a couple of ballets with Ruth. 568 00:19:05.320 --> 00:19:06.560 And you learn a great 569 00:19:06.560 --> 00:19:08.860 deal from working with 570 00:19:08.860 --> 00:19:09.980 her and the people. 571 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:12.380 She had marvelous 572 00:19:13.180 --> 00:19:14.200 musical background 573 00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:16.420 for that. The Bizet Scorte was the basis 574 00:19:16.420 --> 00:19:18.600 of it. However, there was 575 00:19:18.600 --> 00:19:20.360 interpolated, now this doesn't make a 576 00:19:20.360 --> 00:19:22.400 patchwork thing at all. It was done so beautifully. 577 00:19:23.140 --> 00:19:24.380 Spanish poetry of 578 00:19:24.940 --> 00:19:26.400 Lorca, I think. 579 00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:28.000 This is a long time ago. 580 00:19:30.040 --> 00:19:31.160 And the 581 00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:32.400 scenes that came into it. 582 00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:34.380 She transposed the ballet to modern 583 00:19:34.940 --> 00:19:36.620 Spain. The 584 00:19:36.620 --> 00:19:38.180 Civil War there. 585 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:39.640 And 586 00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:41.720 that was the time 587 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:43.620 of political ballets were then 588 00:19:43.620 --> 00:19:45.200 not supposed to be charming. 589 00:19:46.060 --> 00:19:47.760 Like Nutcracker was not being done 590 00:19:47.760 --> 00:19:49.740 at that point. You had social content.