WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.760 --> 00:00:20.120 This is Andre Del Faux for Theofilm Production and we're going to be producing a zero view 2 00:00:20.120 --> 00:00:25.540 on channel one and two and on three is eight, hour eight, zero eight for the time code. 3 00:00:26.520 --> 00:00:32.700 It's going to be zero on both of the channels. One is, channel one is the boom microphone isolating only Andre Del Faux 4 00:00:33.260 --> 00:00:39.860 and two is a mix of the lav and the swan microphone. So, we'll be tuned until it comes to the first minute. 5 00:01:04.520 --> 00:01:19.380 Let's start with what we were talking about before. Do you think that Ruth's contributions as a choreographer are not fully appreciated? 6 00:01:19.380 --> 00:01:27.740 Yes, because she worked in Chicago and not in New York. That's very simple, very clear. 7 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:37.240 Most of the ballet of Ruth were never danced in New York. Never. 8 00:01:37.520 --> 00:01:38.140 Never, I know. 9 00:01:38.160 --> 00:01:39.160 Which is incredible. 10 00:01:43.020 --> 00:01:48.900 And you were also saying that there was another factor, that she didn't have a Lincoln Kirsten. 11 00:01:48.900 --> 00:01:50.380 Yes, that's another thing. 12 00:01:50.580 --> 00:01:52.360 Would you explain what you meant by that? 13 00:01:55.360 --> 00:02:08.900 Well, Lincoln Kirsten has a mission in his life. He found very early this mission was to promote the work of a genius of choreography who was George Balanchine. 14 00:02:08.900 --> 00:02:18.640 And he does that with all his intelligence and all his possibilities of public relations. 15 00:02:20.320 --> 00:02:27.560 And so, it was an enormous help for Balanchine's career in America. 16 00:02:28.580 --> 00:02:36.080 In fact, I can't imagine the Balanchine career in America without Lincoln Kirsten. Nobody could. 17 00:02:37.760 --> 00:02:44.940 So, the beginnings were difficult and he was there and he was there all the time. 18 00:02:45.600 --> 00:02:48.160 And Tom Fischer really couldn't play that role. 19 00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:57.560 Of course not. It was not his position. He was a lawyer. He has to make a living. 20 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:10.060 And he gave Ruth all he could give, but he can't give that kind of promotion. 21 00:03:12.500 --> 00:03:16.440 You called Ruth before a happy creative person, a happy creator. 22 00:03:16.700 --> 00:03:20.180 Yes, a natural one, if you prefer. 23 00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:27.480 Start a sentence so I can just edit it in that begins with, I think Ruth is a natural creator. 24 00:03:28.300 --> 00:03:28.580 Yes, yes. 25 00:03:28.580 --> 00:03:31.660 Just start by saying, I think Ruth is a natural creator. 26 00:03:31.940 --> 00:03:43.000 I think Ruth is a natural creator. Things come to her and she puts them in movement. 27 00:03:46.040 --> 00:03:53.260 It's not a terribly intellectual or terribly mystical. 28 00:03:54.400 --> 00:04:07.400 There is no hard, very hard feelings. She just puts her life in what she does. 29 00:04:08.340 --> 00:04:17.400 So, the creation is not an agony like it is for some people, you see. 30 00:04:19.220 --> 00:04:27.740 I could imagine a creation with Twyla Sarp. I think that could be something very painful. 31 00:04:29.140 --> 00:04:31.760 And some creators are like that. 32 00:04:33.620 --> 00:04:36.380 How about you? Is creation an agony for you? 33 00:04:36.380 --> 00:04:38.660 Oh no, I won't create. 34 00:04:41.260 --> 00:04:43.040 You do it because it's fun. 35 00:04:43.280 --> 00:04:43.760 Yes. 36 00:04:46.020 --> 00:04:51.360 I want to get back again to the friendship between you and Ruth that's gone on so long. 37 00:04:52.140 --> 00:05:00.400 I said to you before that in reading her diaries, your name appears over and over and over. 38 00:05:00.400 --> 00:05:06.380 And not merely by virtue of the fact that she's spending time with you, 39 00:05:06.580 --> 00:05:14.740 but that there is a sense of camaraderie, of renewal, a feeling that she needs you. 40 00:05:15.760 --> 00:05:17.200 Do you think she needs you? 41 00:05:18.020 --> 00:05:23.640 How could I say that? I don't know, really. How could I say? 42 00:05:24.440 --> 00:05:27.280 Do you feel that she needs you? 43 00:05:30.540 --> 00:05:40.500 I hope not. I mean I hope. I think it's a terrible thing to need somebody completely. 44 00:05:40.900 --> 00:05:48.060 I think she's strong. I don't think she needs really anybody. 45 00:05:48.060 --> 00:05:56.580 I think she's very strong and she could. But maybe I'm wrong. 46 00:05:57.560 --> 00:05:59.140 Do you need her? 47 00:06:00.700 --> 00:06:02.020 Certainly, yes. 48 00:06:03.100 --> 00:06:03.440 Why? 49 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:06.620 Why? 50 00:06:06.860 --> 00:06:09.060 Your own feelings. I'm worried about Ruth. 51 00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:09.140 What about Ruth? 52 00:06:13.460 --> 00:06:19.420 Ruth is more in real life than I am, you see. 53 00:06:20.820 --> 00:06:21.700 What do you mean? 54 00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:27.140 I have this feeling very often that I'm not in real life. 55 00:06:28.820 --> 00:06:30.320 That you're not in real life? 56 00:06:30.440 --> 00:06:31.040 Yes. 57 00:06:33.520 --> 00:06:38.460 That you're just moving through it? That your mind is somewhere else? 58 00:06:38.940 --> 00:06:46.580 Yes, that I'm...even my body, I mean this kind of feeling. I have it very often. 59 00:06:48.300 --> 00:06:49.980 Do you have it especially when you're painting? 60 00:06:51.320 --> 00:06:51.840 No. 61 00:06:53.100 --> 00:06:56.160 Not especially? Is that when you're most real, when you're painting? 62 00:06:56.580 --> 00:06:57.580 Yes, I think. 63 00:07:01.900 --> 00:07:04.320 It's very almost existential. 64 00:07:05.180 --> 00:07:05.900 Well, maybe. 65 00:07:06.520 --> 00:07:07.940 Your feelings, very French. 66 00:07:09.640 --> 00:07:14.760 What do you mean when you say that Ruth is real, involved in reality? 67 00:07:15.540 --> 00:07:19.720 She's a strong person, you see. She could deal with things. 68 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:24.620 And you can't? 69 00:07:24.620 --> 00:07:32.940 Well, I suppose if I have to do it, I will. But I don't like to. 70 00:07:35.880 --> 00:07:40.440 Do you hear Ruth tell it? You are bored by most of the everyday things of life. 71 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:49.380 Bored with having to bother to eat, having to bother with just the everydayness of things. 72 00:07:49.740 --> 00:07:52.480 Yes. Yes, it's true. 73 00:07:53.600 --> 00:08:04.760 But bored, it's a strong word. I mean, it's too strong. I'm not exactly bored, but kind of, sort of. 74 00:08:04.940 --> 00:08:08.800 It's not important. It's a sense that those things aren't important. 75 00:08:12.380 --> 00:08:13.900 Because...yes, this kind of feeling. 76 00:08:15.520 --> 00:08:19.400 So what is important? What would you say are the most important things to you? 77 00:08:19.400 --> 00:08:22.780 Well, the quality of the light or something like that. 78 00:08:24.440 --> 00:08:26.620 And the most important things to Ruth? 79 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:41.100 Oh, I think her world, her real world is very important to her. 80 00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:51.640 I'm in the school, I'm in her class. Those things are very important to her. 81 00:08:53.640 --> 00:09:01.740 She talks about the fact that you are an intellectual and a cultured person and have a great deal more education than she. 82 00:09:01.960 --> 00:09:05.780 Oh, she has a great deal of education. 83 00:09:06.760 --> 00:09:13.780 She speaks very nice French. No, she doesn't need education at all. 84 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:24.680 I'm more of an intellectual than she is. I think, yes. 85 00:09:26.380 --> 00:09:28.460 Do you find her a good company? 86 00:09:28.460 --> 00:09:33.680 Oh, yes. Otherwise, I won't be there. 87 00:09:35.700 --> 00:09:43.960 She's a marvelous company because she doesn't impose, she doesn't wait. 88 00:09:46.040 --> 00:09:55.340 She has her own life, so she doesn't need to be on your life. 89 00:09:56.780 --> 00:09:59.000 Has she been to this studio yet? 90 00:09:59.700 --> 00:10:08.440 No, well, once, yes, when I take it. But not here, not still. No, she's waiting to see the paintings. 91 00:10:11.820 --> 00:10:14.260 Talk a little bit about these paintings. 92 00:10:15.620 --> 00:10:21.260 Well, this is a new series and it's more or less about theater. 93 00:10:23.560 --> 00:10:27.340 Do you have any idea how long it will go on that you'll keep doing this particular series? 94 00:10:29.660 --> 00:10:36.720 No, I don't know, but I have a lot of ideas. I could do this for a long time, I hope. 95 00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:40.360 Ruth says you paint a painting every day. 96 00:10:40.500 --> 00:10:41.540 No, it's not true. 97 00:10:41.760 --> 00:10:42.900 I didn't think so. 98 00:10:44.260 --> 00:10:53.260 I could do it sometimes, but not as a rule. It's not like that. 99 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:58.400 When you come in to paint, you get here at about what time in the morning? 100 00:10:58.700 --> 00:10:59.920 Nine, around nine. 101 00:11:00.680 --> 00:11:02.040 And you paint all day? 102 00:11:02.220 --> 00:11:06.180 Yes, I walk usually. I walk from two to nine. 103 00:11:06.180 --> 00:11:18.360 And I never look at the view and begin to work. I stay until four or five in the afternoon. 104 00:11:19.800 --> 00:11:20.440 Every day? 105 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:21.800 Every day, yes. 106 00:11:24.140 --> 00:11:29.100 It's like Ruth and her dancing and her classes every day. 107 00:11:29.100 --> 00:11:29.180 Yes. 108 00:11:30.060 --> 00:11:30.880 It's what you do. 109 00:11:31.020 --> 00:11:32.240 Yes, yes. 110 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:44.440 Has it been difficult for you to be spending as much time in this country and in Chicago as you have since you and Ruth have been married these last few years? 111 00:11:48.180 --> 00:11:56.360 Well, I have not many friends in Paris, but in Chicago I have none. 112 00:11:57.340 --> 00:11:58.920 Except Ruth, of course. 113 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:00.020 Except Ruth, yes. 114 00:12:00.020 --> 00:12:12.920 And so it was kind of difficult sometimes. Sometimes I feel like chatting your conversation. 115 00:12:19.900 --> 00:12:25.600 Do you want to go out in the hallway and kind of step in so he doesn't walk in at the middle of it? 116 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:26.200 What do you mean? 117 00:12:29.560 --> 00:12:33.280 About your marriage to Ruth, she said she asked you to marry her. 118 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:33.980 Yes. 119 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:35.980 And she said... 120 00:12:35.980 --> 00:12:40.280 She was in New York. We were in the Mayflower Hotel. 121 00:12:41.740 --> 00:12:42.760 What did she say? 122 00:12:45.100 --> 00:13:00.840 She said, will you marry me? And she said that won't change anything in your life and I would be very happy. 123 00:13:02.400 --> 00:13:03.140 And you said? 124 00:13:03.500 --> 00:13:04.040 Yes. 125 00:13:06.160 --> 00:13:07.060 Were you surprised? 126 00:13:07.860 --> 00:13:11.720 Yes. Oh yes, I was. 127 00:13:13.380 --> 00:13:16.480 But it didn't take you any time at all to make up your mind? 128 00:13:16.820 --> 00:13:17.960 No, I said yes. 129 00:13:22.620 --> 00:13:26.280 You are two such independent people, you and Ruth. 130 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:29.640 Does that make it easier because you are both so independent? 131 00:13:29.640 --> 00:13:36.780 I imagine. I imagine, yes, because she could respect that in another person. 132 00:13:39.180 --> 00:13:49.980 I've said before that I think you are her best friend, the best friend she's ever had in her life. Is she your best friend? 133 00:13:51.580 --> 00:13:52.480 I think yes. 134 00:13:56.520 --> 00:14:02.660 What is there in the friendship that makes it so good and has made it last so long? 135 00:14:02.660 --> 00:14:16.420 Well, common interest, I suppose. And difference of character and community of interest. 136 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:27.160 It strikes me, Andre, that there are very few people in this world who aren't to some degree afraid of Ruth. 137 00:14:27.860 --> 00:14:28.600 Afraid? 138 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:32.500 She's so strong and so... 139 00:14:32.500 --> 00:14:33.900 She's strong, certainly. 140 00:14:35.040 --> 00:14:38.220 ...firm in her ideas. But I don't think you're afraid of her. 141 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:46.960 No. I'm afraid of another kind of person, not Ruth. 142 00:14:49.660 --> 00:14:51.580 What do you mean? What kind of... 143 00:14:51.580 --> 00:15:06.040 I'm afraid of people who try to impose on others, who want to force. 144 00:15:08.400 --> 00:15:12.900 It strikes me that there's a great deal of respect in your relationship. 145 00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:13.440 Yes. 146 00:15:13.940 --> 00:15:15.020 Was it always there? 147 00:15:15.380 --> 00:15:16.420 Oh yes, certainly. 148 00:15:18.800 --> 00:15:28.420 Has there ever been another choreographer or partner, creative relationship that you've had that's been as long as the one you've had with Ruth? 149 00:15:29.040 --> 00:15:37.800 No, but my relation with Kibin was interpreted by his death, because he died, as you know, very young. 150 00:15:38.560 --> 00:15:42.820 Otherwise, I'm sure that we'll still be working with Kibin too. 151 00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:50.160 Was there ever a time in all the years when you thought, I don't want to work with Ruth Page anymore? 152 00:15:50.620 --> 00:15:52.600 Oh no, I never thought it was that. 153 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:55.880 So it was good from the start? 154 00:15:56.860 --> 00:15:57.360 Yes. 155 00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:03.320 Do you think that she treats you differently from the way she treats other people? 156 00:16:06.800 --> 00:16:10.200 Yes, I think. Yes. 157 00:16:12.260 --> 00:16:15.680 I think she's very nice with everybody, as you know. 158 00:16:16.940 --> 00:16:19.200 But I think she takes me... 159 00:16:23.520 --> 00:16:25.620 a little... better. 160 00:16:27.860 --> 00:16:28.340 Why? 161 00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:31.520 Because she likes me, I suppose. 162 00:16:34.520 --> 00:16:35.220 And you like her. 163 00:16:35.500 --> 00:16:36.020 Yes. 164 00:16:37.560 --> 00:16:39.440 Okay, that's it. 165 00:16:39.580 --> 00:16:45.280 Any more? Is there anything I haven't asked you that you can think of that you'd like to have on this tape? 166 00:16:46.380 --> 00:16:46.860 No. 167 00:16:47.140 --> 00:16:47.460 No? 168 00:16:49.100 --> 00:16:51.560 All right, in that case, we're finished.