WEBVTT 1 00:00:17.080 --> 00:00:22.380 Okay, we now have bars in tone and now we have a line at zero db. 2 00:00:22.380 --> 00:00:28.920 It was low on the first cassette and we have set it now. It's April 1st, 2022. 3 00:00:30.460 --> 00:00:31.400 And it's a good bar. 4 00:00:33.360 --> 00:00:36.540 This will be a better audio for you. It's going to sound more like the one. 5 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:01.560 Who came up to Chicago to be married. Yes, I remember that. 6 00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:04.100 The top gave her away. It was a totally named cathedral. 7 00:01:04.800 --> 00:01:07.160 It had people there. It was a very interesting wedding. 8 00:01:08.260 --> 00:01:11.600 And then Felisa left and went back to Mexico years later. 9 00:01:12.740 --> 00:01:18.560 And one day a few years ago she called Ruth to say goodbye to her because she knew she was dying. 10 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:23.060 And to let her know that the happiest years of her life was when she worked for Ruth. 11 00:01:23.740 --> 00:01:26.880 I thought that was something to call up from next. 12 00:01:27.100 --> 00:01:31.560 Because it doesn't stay done. You make dinner and it's gone. 13 00:01:31.660 --> 00:01:33.240 And then the next day you have to make it again. 14 00:01:33.860 --> 00:01:36.080 I don't like it because it's so time consuming. 15 00:01:37.440 --> 00:01:40.420 You get dinner, it takes a long time if you really cook. 16 00:01:40.780 --> 00:01:41.780 And if you really do it right. 17 00:01:43.180 --> 00:01:44.640 And the 20 minutes is gone. 18 00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:47.700 I know. And it's not an accomplishment that's still not done. 19 00:01:49.300 --> 00:01:58.440 The other funny thing was at San Tropez when this woman who was part-time maid would bring in things. 20 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:03.120 But the ratatouille we had. That big pot of ratatouille. 21 00:02:03.180 --> 00:02:05.920 Oh ratatouille. Yes, I remember that. 22 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:07.520 We ate it for a week. 23 00:02:07.520 --> 00:02:10.720 We loved it so much. 24 00:02:11.800 --> 00:02:14.800 The meals in San Tropez were good. You know Ruth didn't do the cooking. 25 00:02:15.380 --> 00:02:18.560 Oh we'd go out to eat. And poor Ruth was paying these bills. 26 00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:20.920 The price of things. 27 00:02:22.100 --> 00:02:24.580 Remember when John Neumeyer and his friend turned up? 28 00:02:24.580 --> 00:02:25.360 Oh yes. 29 00:02:25.380 --> 00:02:28.420 I never saw the bill but I saw loads of money going out. 30 00:02:28.940 --> 00:02:31.180 Yes, it's expensive to eat out there. 31 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:35.500 But it's more expensive to eat at home I think. 32 00:02:38.020 --> 00:02:42.080 I was asking you before about seeing Ruth dance. 33 00:02:42.140 --> 00:02:43.960 Describing Ruth as a dancer. 34 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:48.080 The first time you saw her. 35 00:02:48.640 --> 00:02:51.860 What did you think of her as a dancer other than the fact of her feet? 36 00:02:51.900 --> 00:02:53.640 She is vain about her feet. It's true. 37 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:56.700 She says her feet are the only perfectly beautiful part of her. 38 00:02:56.820 --> 00:02:58.400 Well she did two numbers. 39 00:02:58.860 --> 00:03:02.800 She did Adolf Bohn who was the director of the Allied Arts. 40 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:09.160 And Ruth's teacher in New York who brought her here to Chicago as the ballerina of the Allied Arts. 41 00:03:09.700 --> 00:03:12.580 Did a ballet based on Dega, the Art Institute. 42 00:03:13.440 --> 00:03:16.880 All these little 19th century ballerinas with their pink tutus. 43 00:03:17.380 --> 00:03:22.620 It was a classroom situation and Ruth was the ballerina. 44 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:26.620 She looked very lovely and she did the things one doesn't. 45 00:03:27.400 --> 00:03:30.260 That's so satisfying to be so things I know. 46 00:03:30.260 --> 00:03:33.240 Her toe work is very lovely. 47 00:03:35.780 --> 00:03:39.180 And then that same program later in the day. 48 00:03:39.180 --> 00:03:41.720 Dega I think was one of the first things. 49 00:03:42.020 --> 00:03:46.180 Then came the Debertesmont that is solos and pas de deux. 50 00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:50.120 And that's where Blackburn Quarterback were part of it. 51 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:54.500 The Eighth Street Theater which is now a parking lot for the Hilton Hotel. 52 00:03:54.500 --> 00:03:55.800 Very important. 53 00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:00.340 Not this particular program but later on. 54 00:04:00.580 --> 00:04:01.920 I'm talking too much. 55 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:12.220 When Marie, Queen of Romania came to Chicago the important things that were going to be shown her included the Allied Arts. 56 00:04:12.300 --> 00:04:13.560 She came to a performance. 57 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:16.560 I remember when she came in it was very exciting. 58 00:04:17.580 --> 00:04:19.980 But you know my home in Indianapolis is a parking lot. 59 00:04:20.300 --> 00:04:22.340 I took somebody out there very long. 60 00:04:22.340 --> 00:04:25.920 I wanted to show him we were there just for a few hours. 61 00:04:26.280 --> 00:04:28.360 I said I'm going to show you where I used to live. 62 00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:33.400 It used to have great big beach trees with low branches and ravines. 63 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:35.500 It's a very rolly place. 64 00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:38.360 We went out there and all the ravines had been taken out. 65 00:04:38.740 --> 00:04:41.360 The beach trees had been cut down and it was a parking lot. 66 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:42.020 Oh no. 67 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:45.280 So everything changes. Nothing stays. 68 00:04:46.500 --> 00:04:47.560 Thank goodness they. 69 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:48.340 You know when you mention. 70 00:04:48.340 --> 00:04:49.120 That things change. 71 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:51.100 You mentioned Indianapolis. 72 00:04:51.100 --> 00:04:55.200 What was that James Witt Cumreilly thing you were connected with there? 73 00:04:55.580 --> 00:04:58.240 Oh the Memorial Hospital? Children's Hospital? 74 00:04:58.700 --> 00:05:00.380 No a performance of some kind. 75 00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:01.840 Oh I don't know. 76 00:05:02.220 --> 00:05:03.240 I don't know either. 77 00:05:03.500 --> 00:05:04.380 A performance of James Witt. 78 00:05:04.380 --> 00:05:08.140 You know he was a good friend of Ruth's father's James Witt Cumreilly was. 79 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:12.940 Was that the one that Okranski came out for and you were in it? 80 00:05:13.320 --> 00:05:14.500 I know I've seen some of them. 81 00:05:14.500 --> 00:05:16.620 I don't know how they did do with James Witt Cumreilly. 82 00:05:16.620 --> 00:05:20.940 Not with him personally but there was some sort of memorial and you danced. 83 00:05:21.140 --> 00:05:22.540 Oh could be. I don't remember. 84 00:05:22.540 --> 00:05:23.620 I remember dancing with my mother. 85 00:05:23.620 --> 00:05:25.100 I just saw it in one of your books. 86 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:25.480 Yeah. 87 00:05:25.480 --> 00:05:26.620 I remember that. 88 00:05:27.100 --> 00:05:29.700 Also talking about Indianapolis. 89 00:05:29.880 --> 00:05:33.640 Your mother was very instrumental in the cultural scene there. 90 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:34.700 Yes. 91 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:44.080 Mother started the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra and the Indianapolis Matinee Music Club because she was bored with Indianapolis and she didn't like music. 92 00:05:44.080 --> 00:05:46.680 So she gave them plenty of music. 93 00:05:48.760 --> 00:05:50.880 Also gave them you I think. 94 00:05:51.320 --> 00:05:54.180 Did you know Ruth's mother? Did you ever meet Ruth's mother? 95 00:05:54.420 --> 00:05:54.600 No I never did. 96 00:05:54.820 --> 00:05:55.820 I knew your mother. 97 00:05:56.520 --> 00:05:57.360 Oh sure everybody. 98 00:05:58.880 --> 00:05:59.620 She's right. 99 00:06:00.220 --> 00:06:07.500 But going back into your book I was always impressed with all the Dr. Lafayette pages in your background. 100 00:06:08.500 --> 00:06:12.720 Do you know why they're named Dr. Lafayette Page? 101 00:06:13.080 --> 00:06:15.400 Because I'll let Ruth tell you. 102 00:06:15.840 --> 00:06:19.940 What do you mean because when he came over Lafayette came over? 103 00:06:19.960 --> 00:06:21.440 Yes the Marquis Lafayette. 104 00:06:22.420 --> 00:06:26.980 They started in the Page family. They started in Virginia. 105 00:06:27.860 --> 00:06:27.860 106 00:06:28.660 --> 00:06:30.700 He came to visit somebody I don't know. 107 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:32.860 Is there a Lafayette now? Does your brother have? 108 00:06:32.860 --> 00:06:33.500 My brother. 109 00:06:34.840 --> 00:06:35.740 His son. 110 00:06:35.740 --> 00:06:43.040 He has a son but he wouldn't take the name Lafayette because he said there were too many of them and he didn't want to be called Lafayette. 111 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:45.440 My father was always called Fayette. 112 00:06:46.740 --> 00:06:50.740 And then it got to be Lafayette and so I don't think there are any Lafayette pages around now. 113 00:06:52.340 --> 00:06:52.340 114 00:06:52.380 --> 00:06:53.760 Yes it is too bad. 115 00:06:54.260 --> 00:06:57.740 Because there are a lot of pages and fichers. 116 00:06:58.540 --> 00:07:03.160 That very handsome Greek god that came to Saint Tropez one night to look for Aunt Ruth. 117 00:07:03.620 --> 00:07:04.740 Oh yes Bill Brookfield. 118 00:07:04.960 --> 00:07:04.960 119 00:07:05.420 --> 00:07:07.820 He is divine. Don't you know Bill? 120 00:07:07.860 --> 00:07:08.080 No. 121 00:07:08.260 --> 00:07:13.040 He lived over at the school for a long time. 122 00:07:14.540 --> 00:07:15.660 I did meet him once Ruth. 123 00:07:15.660 --> 00:07:19.200 He didn't know anything about dance so of course I took him every place with me. 124 00:07:19.820 --> 00:07:22.720 And so now he's very okuroin. He knows what's going on in dance. 125 00:07:22.760 --> 00:07:26.620 Now he's already graduated from law school. He's not a young boy anymore. 126 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:29.260 I see him a lot though. He's very handsome. 127 00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:30.780 Now whose child is he? 128 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:33.280 Bill Brookfield. 129 00:07:36.440 --> 00:07:38.440 He's Tom's nephew's child. 130 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:41.800 Tom's nephew's child. I did meet him. I met him over at the school. 131 00:07:41.900 --> 00:07:44.080 He was a law student then and now he's graduated. 132 00:07:44.400 --> 00:07:47.620 Yes. So he said I don't know what he's going to do now. He hasn't made up his mind. 133 00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:52.700 He wants to go out and see the world. He doesn't want to just be ordinary and just practice law. 134 00:07:52.740 --> 00:07:56.580 He wants to do something special. So I don't know what it's going to be. We'll see. 135 00:07:57.280 --> 00:08:00.140 He'll probably end up the way of all flesh but I don't know. 136 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:01.880 What advice are you giving him? 137 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:02.160 What? 138 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:03.380 What advice are you giving him? 139 00:08:03.380 --> 00:08:08.080 I said he should take a year off and go around and see the world and see where he'd like to be 140 00:08:08.080 --> 00:08:10.980 and what law firm he wants to be in any. 141 00:08:12.100 --> 00:08:17.940 And that's a difficult decision. My husband was a lawyer and he was in his father's firm. 142 00:08:18.320 --> 00:08:21.800 And he didn't want to be in anybody's firm. He wanted to practice law by himself. 143 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:26.600 So he left and started his own business. But I don't know of any other lawyers who've done that. 144 00:08:26.840 --> 00:08:27.560 It's hard to do. 145 00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:32.480 Yes it is. So I don't know what he'll do. He'll get along though I'm sure. 146 00:08:32.940 --> 00:08:35.120 He won't need Aunt Ruth's help I don't think. 147 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:38.640 Well encouragement though. Don't you think of him? 148 00:08:39.220 --> 00:08:44.980 Would you think that he's a person, that he looks up to you because you're the member of the family who, 149 00:08:44.980 --> 00:08:47.400 like Tom, has had courage to go her own way? 150 00:08:47.760 --> 00:08:49.680 I don't know. I don't know. I feel threatened. 151 00:08:49.680 --> 00:08:56.660 He was with a group of students who were doing walking tours. 152 00:08:56.700 --> 00:08:59.560 They weren't hitchhiking but they're walking or taking trains. 153 00:09:00.280 --> 00:09:03.260 And he got very bored with them. He left them. 154 00:09:03.780 --> 00:09:10.300 And he goes far San Tropez and he asks his way to the crazy grass village. 155 00:09:10.780 --> 00:09:11.220 Careful. 156 00:09:11.220 --> 00:09:21.780 Ruth was at the beach and this poor bedraggled boy with blistered heels turned up looking for his Aunt Ruth. 157 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:23.520 I remember that. 158 00:09:23.900 --> 00:09:24.600 That was fun. 159 00:09:25.160 --> 00:09:28.480 It was interesting at San Tropez. People were never boring there I'm sure. 160 00:09:28.520 --> 00:09:30.680 Oh yes. He stayed there for a while. 161 00:09:32.540 --> 00:09:38.260 Actually San Tropez, you never kept a guest book there. You would have some very wonderful names wouldn't you? 162 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:39.940 Yes. I wish I had. 163 00:09:39.940 --> 00:09:46.260 Some of the people that love to have a week on the Mediterranean would turn up. 164 00:09:46.260 --> 00:09:50.080 Well the Ellis's made me a book. They stayed there for a while and I wasn't there. 165 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:54.080 And they made me a book with pictures of the house and everything for which I'm very grateful. 166 00:09:54.620 --> 00:09:57.480 Otherwise I wouldn't have anything from San Tropez. 167 00:09:58.920 --> 00:10:01.680 Who got the studio after you left? Your maid? 168 00:10:02.180 --> 00:10:04.140 I don't know. I have no idea. 169 00:10:04.700 --> 00:10:08.520 Actually the studio was being rented. I don't think they ever permitted you to buy it. 170 00:10:08.520 --> 00:10:10.180 No we didn't buy it. We didn't own it. 171 00:10:10.340 --> 00:10:18.980 That's so funny. She bought a wonderful old house with thick walls and you realize why they were thick when you had the first mistral. 172 00:10:19.660 --> 00:10:28.860 But her maid owned a wine house across the patio. She wouldn't sell it but she rented it to Ruth. 173 00:10:29.220 --> 00:10:30.660 I'll finish telling you the rest. 174 00:10:30.760 --> 00:10:35.580 Well there's nothing much to tell about it. It was a lovely great big studio and it had two bedrooms upstairs. 175 00:10:35.580 --> 00:10:38.180 Nice apartment. It had a whole apartment upstairs. 176 00:10:38.800 --> 00:10:41.320 Yeah. So that's where we put all our kitchen and dining room. 177 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:42.140 Yes and everything. 178 00:10:42.800 --> 00:10:50.220 But she would not rent to Ruth so that when Ruth finally left she had this wonderfully improved old wine house. 179 00:10:51.300 --> 00:10:55.180 It was not very large though. There's a story I read about one time. 180 00:10:55.940 --> 00:11:03.480 Andre was there and you and Tom were there and you had invited guests because Andre was supposed to leave and then he didn't leave. 181 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:11.380 And you and Tom ended up sleeping at claves because you gave up your own bedroom to your guests. Do you remember that? 182 00:11:11.380 --> 00:11:13.140 Yeah I remember that. Why not? 183 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:14.820 Well the claves were a wonderful name. 184 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:15.720 They certainly were. 185 00:11:15.760 --> 00:11:22.320 I've been there when there were 17 people for lunch. I loved it. The maid would serve everybody and she'd sit down with me. 186 00:11:22.580 --> 00:11:23.520 Oh and eat with you? 187 00:11:23.620 --> 00:11:24.480 Part of the family. 188 00:11:25.620 --> 00:11:26.880 They're wonderful people. 189 00:11:27.380 --> 00:11:29.160 He still lives there. He still has a house there. 190 00:11:29.160 --> 00:11:34.400 Yes. In fact he bought my house in Paris. 191 00:11:36.280 --> 00:11:38.900 And you said he was using it to store his paintings. 192 00:11:39.400 --> 00:11:40.780 It seems a shame. 193 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:44.580 Well he doesn't want to live in Paris. He needed some place to put his paintings. 194 00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:47.040 We used it one week remember? 195 00:11:47.280 --> 00:11:47.800 Yes. 196 00:11:48.500 --> 00:11:54.540 It's a lovely little very narrow house and a strange little street that you have to go through a gate to get into. 197 00:11:54.540 --> 00:11:58.300 And once you're there it's big. Beautifully done. 198 00:12:00.640 --> 00:12:10.540 And I read, and I think I have this right, that in 1947 you were the new critic for the Chicago Times and you reviewed Ruth's The Bells. 199 00:12:11.780 --> 00:12:12.700 Do you remember The Bells? 200 00:12:12.700 --> 00:12:21.340 I certainly do. I remember the golden bells, the silver bells, the iron bells and the whole thing collapses at the end. 201 00:12:21.820 --> 00:12:22.640 Gorgeous set. 202 00:12:22.640 --> 00:12:28.640 And they were going to do it at Mandel Hall the first time. Jerome Andrews did the ghoul at first. 203 00:12:29.860 --> 00:12:30.640 King of the ghouls. 204 00:12:32.540 --> 00:12:36.180 And little Edith Allard did the thing with the ribbons. That's the silver bells. 205 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:41.700 Bernice Holmes was supposed to do the golden bells and hurt her ankle and you went on the last minute. 206 00:12:42.540 --> 00:12:46.040 And then Ballet Rousse bought the ballet. They did it with Frederick Franklin. 207 00:12:46.800 --> 00:12:47.460 And Danilo. 208 00:12:48.220 --> 00:12:59.280 Ruth always had a penchant for poetry. In fact you did some wonderful dances with words in which you spoke the poetry. 209 00:12:59.580 --> 00:13:07.260 I still remember the Lorca one. Five in the afternoon. It was exactly five at this time. 210 00:13:08.220 --> 00:13:13.800 The child carried a white sheet at five in the afternoon. The rest was death alone at five. 211 00:13:13.800 --> 00:13:17.100 That went with the Carmen somehow. I don't know how it got into Carmen. 212 00:13:18.260 --> 00:13:22.200 I did four different versions of Carmen and that got into world. 213 00:13:23.340 --> 00:13:28.400 Well, wait. That was the period also when you did the Long Voyage Home. 214 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:33.260 Do you know she did a wonderful job in Eugene O'Neill's Long Voyage Home. 215 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:40.720 It has only one woman character. Was that WPA or not? Whatever it was. It was a very fine production. 216 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:46.860 Ruth was the only female character in it. You were wonderful in it. 217 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:51.440 I don't remember. And that's the first I've heard of it. I've done a good deal of research. 218 00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:54.020 Ruth knows and that's not something that I know about. 219 00:13:54.340 --> 00:13:55.120 The Long Voyage Home. 220 00:13:55.340 --> 00:13:58.340 It was a play that she was in. 221 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:00.040 That's a Eugene O'Neill play. 222 00:14:00.100 --> 00:14:00.760 I know that. 223 00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:06.240 And there was only one female character in it. It's about these sailors who wanted violence. 224 00:14:06.640 --> 00:14:09.060 So Ruth was just acting. It wasn't a dance or anything. 225 00:14:09.060 --> 00:14:09.920 No, no dancing. 226 00:14:10.500 --> 00:14:12.500 What did we do with that? I don't remember how we did it. 227 00:14:12.640 --> 00:14:18.840 See, the Great Northern or McVicker is one of those. I was impressed. I remembered. 228 00:14:20.020 --> 00:14:21.360 She has a marvelous memory. 229 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:30.200 She does. And that's amazing. That's the only time I think I know of that Ruth, who is an excellent actress, I think. 230 00:14:30.340 --> 00:14:31.840 I've never seen her to be a great actress. 231 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:39.320 Actually, she was a real actress in her ballads. She never did these abstract things. She always had to be something. 232 00:14:39.880 --> 00:14:46.160 In her ballads. But I think that's the only time I know of her appearing in a straight play where she didn't dance. 233 00:14:46.180 --> 00:14:48.680 That's right. It's the only one I know of too. But she did. 234 00:14:49.020 --> 00:14:49.680 And she was good. 235 00:14:49.820 --> 00:14:57.300 She always spoke so well, you see. Like when she did that series of poems, Hilarabelloc and those. 236 00:14:57.600 --> 00:14:58.440 The Words of Music. 237 00:14:58.700 --> 00:14:58.900 Yeah. 238 00:15:01.060 --> 00:15:05.180 Now how did that strike you? You've always liked innovative things. 239 00:15:06.580 --> 00:15:15.900 I like mixed media. I like everything. I like to sit and watch a class. I don't think any ballet has really been made abstractly as good as a good class. 240 00:15:15.900 --> 00:15:16.920 I agree with you. 241 00:15:16.920 --> 00:15:23.080 But I like dances with words. I like dances with... It's stupid to have everything in like. 242 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:31.480 It's like recently I went to a performance in New York. Three separate ballets. But at the end I realized there was not one human emotion. 243 00:15:31.640 --> 00:15:38.160 There was nothing funny, nothing tragic, nothing romantic. Just a lot of steps beautifully done to symphonic music. 244 00:15:38.340 --> 00:15:41.060 That's the style now. Just a few steps. 245 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:45.060 Moderns do it too. Not only ballet. Patterns, repetition. 246 00:15:46.780 --> 00:15:56.080 It's always seemed to me that in Ruth's ballets and indeed in what she's written about choreography that the dramatic component, the feeling, was always very important to you. 247 00:15:56.580 --> 00:15:56.840 Yeah. 248 00:15:57.620 --> 00:16:05.940 Well, every good choreographer is versatile. Has many different kinds. You could do Love Song which was romantic and academic. 249 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:11.960 You could do Frankie and Johnny which had all sorts of music hall tap and whatnot. 250 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:22.360 What do you mean when you said you nodded in agreement and said that's right? That you can get as much enjoyment or more enjoyment out of watching a good class. 251 00:16:22.900 --> 00:16:24.860 I love to watch class. I adore to watch class. 252 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:28.780 I just came from four days of watching three classes a day and it comes. 253 00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:30.700 What do you see when you watch a class? 254 00:16:30.700 --> 00:16:35.600 Because art, two things. One is the dancers are dancing all the time. 255 00:16:35.620 --> 00:16:40.800 It's not like a class of say music where they just finger things or something. 256 00:16:41.800 --> 00:16:48.740 The teacher has to invent or else he's done it in the past, combinations which are really pieces of choreography. 257 00:16:49.300 --> 00:16:53.780 And different dancers do each one. And then the next thing, and then you find somebody to watch. 258 00:16:54.760 --> 00:16:59.660 Like there was a young kid, I don't think he shaves yet. He's about 16 or 17. I adopt this kid. 259 00:16:59.660 --> 00:17:03.260 It was wonderful to watch. Great. 260 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:13.480 People should never be embarrassed in a class that there are people watching because your eye catch is the good one and the others can try what they want. 261 00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:18.940 Different teachers teach so differently. 262 00:17:18.940 --> 00:17:22.700 And you get it did give the same combinations all the time. 263 00:17:22.940 --> 00:17:26.340 Every Monday, it was the same every Tuesday, every Wednesday. 264 00:17:26.560 --> 00:17:31.700 And then at the end of the class, he'd get what he called time, a pleasure where he'd make up steps for you. 265 00:17:32.500 --> 00:17:35.100 But that's the only teacher I've ever had that did it like that. 266 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:41.040 Mostly just are creating all the way through, beginning a bar till the end of the class. 267 00:17:41.780 --> 00:17:46.400 Mr. Bowman was most imaginative. He had more steps, bored with teaching. 268 00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:50.020 And so he would try to make a very, very intricate things. 269 00:17:50.060 --> 00:17:52.680 He would go crazy. Oh, yes. He was trying to follow. 270 00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:57.500 And to intricate rhythms, he'd tell the pianist, give me seven, nine, seven, nine, five. 271 00:17:57.540 --> 00:17:58.740 That was the number of counts. 272 00:18:00.620 --> 00:18:02.820 His class was very hard to follow. Yes. 273 00:18:03.220 --> 00:18:05.320 In Kretsberg, Kretsberg was the most unusual teacher. 274 00:18:05.340 --> 00:18:07.700 Well, his was even different. His was more free. 275 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:11.600 Follow me, girls. I can't even analyze what I'm doing. 276 00:18:13.980 --> 00:18:21.960 Now you saw, you were here and working as a reviewer and seeing everything that happened here in Chicago 277 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:25.320 and I think everywhere in the country, maybe the world in terms of ballet. 278 00:18:26.360 --> 00:18:28.500 Yeah, I used to take the Greyhound bus everywhere. 279 00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:30.420 280 00:18:31.360 --> 00:18:36.760 But she saw everything. You're right. I've never known anybody who, she never missed anything. 281 00:18:37.620 --> 00:18:41.980 Now, what is so special about Chicago Ballet for you? 282 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:44.120 Because I've read some of the things you've written about it. 283 00:18:44.180 --> 00:18:46.440 Well, Chicago, as in all the arts. 284 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:52.980 Now, if you go back to the 20s, which some things are before my time, but you still read the literature. 285 00:18:53.040 --> 00:18:59.640 You are aware of Ben Heck, Maxwell Anderson, Adolf Bohn, the start of the Allied Arts. 286 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:07.040 Frederick Stock was playing new music. John Alden Carpenter was composing. 287 00:19:07.380 --> 00:19:11.820 The Art Institute was the first big museum that bought impressionists. 288 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:16.340 There was always something very adventuresome in the air. 289 00:19:16.760 --> 00:19:22.180 There was that great period in the 20s, the Poetry Magazine, Margaret Anderson's little review. 290 00:19:22.180 --> 00:19:30.380 When WPA came, unlike New York, which was having almost duels between ballet and modern, 291 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:37.260 everything together, the Groffs who represented modern dance, Ruth Page Ballet and everything else. 292 00:19:38.660 --> 00:19:41.960 Everybody worked together and created something out of that.