WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.180 --> 00:00:13.580 You 2 00:00:42.860 --> 00:00:44.260 You 3 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:01.960 You 4 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:02.220 You 5 00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:30.800 Oh, who was it who day Chavner 6 00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:33.440 Ravi Shankar. 7 00:01:33.700 --> 00:01:33.920 Yes. 8 00:01:34.160 --> 00:01:34.800 All right. 9 00:01:34.960 --> 00:01:40.000 Ravi Shankar, I saw him someplace, I don't know, not too long ago, and his music was 10 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:40.880 absolutely beautiful. 11 00:01:41.660 --> 00:01:42.440 And he had a big ring? 12 00:01:42.620 --> 00:01:48.000 And he had a thing that he was playing, and he had on this finger a great big ring, and 13 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:49.320 you could see it all the time. 14 00:01:49.380 --> 00:01:51.560 And it looked so beautiful, and then he used it. 15 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:52.900 And I said, Oh, I've got to have a ring. 16 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:53.940 I've never worn rings. 17 00:01:54.040 --> 00:01:56.880 I've never had an engagement ring or a wedding ring or anything. 18 00:01:57.560 --> 00:01:59.120 Well, rings are fun. 19 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:03.480 But when you go to Paris, you should have gone there. 20 00:02:04.020 --> 00:02:04.640 To get a ring? 21 00:02:04.900 --> 00:02:05.300 Certainly. 22 00:02:05.440 --> 00:02:09.180 You've gone to all those fancy places across from the Ritz. 23 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:10.960 Tray expensive. 24 00:02:12.440 --> 00:02:13.240 I don't necessarily. 25 00:02:13.260 --> 00:02:14.360 It can all be artificial. 26 00:02:14.440 --> 00:02:15.680 I haven't got anything real. 27 00:02:16.180 --> 00:02:18.820 Chanel has a nice costume. 28 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:19.360 29 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:19.360 30 00:02:20.100 --> 00:02:21.980 I don't have any real jewelry. 31 00:02:22.020 --> 00:02:23.180 It's got junk like this. 32 00:02:23.300 --> 00:02:24.600 Yeah, but you wear the junk well. 33 00:02:24.640 --> 00:02:27.740 But if you want a ring, you'll have to look. 34 00:02:27.820 --> 00:02:28.620 Rings are hard. 35 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:30.760 I don't know if I really do want a ring. 36 00:02:30.860 --> 00:02:35.200 I probably never wear it because I'm not used to wearing a ring, but I certainly was impressed 37 00:02:35.200 --> 00:02:36.740 with Ravi Shankar's ring. 38 00:02:36.940 --> 00:02:41.740 Well, if you start playing the guitar or whatever it was, I don't know what it was. 39 00:02:42.180 --> 00:02:43.280 Yeah, I doubt if I will stop. 40 00:02:43.300 --> 00:02:44.440 Indian something or other. 41 00:02:44.580 --> 00:02:45.800 Yeah, it is a C-tar. 42 00:02:45.900 --> 00:02:46.760 Is that what it's called? 43 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:47.240 A C-tar? 44 00:02:47.320 --> 00:02:47.680 Yes. 45 00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:48.420 Is that what it is? 46 00:02:48.620 --> 00:02:48.760 Yeah. 47 00:02:49.020 --> 00:02:50.020 Yes, it is indeed what it is. 48 00:02:50.040 --> 00:02:54.280 We are rolling and recording, and this is just an ordinary nice conversation every now 49 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:54.460 and then. 50 00:02:54.520 --> 00:02:56.840 I will interject something by way of a subject. 51 00:02:57.420 --> 00:02:59.440 But you talk mostly to Jerry. 52 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:02.460 And if it's comfortable when I say something, turn to me. 53 00:03:02.580 --> 00:03:04.600 But just the way we usually do it. 54 00:03:05.480 --> 00:03:11.140 And this is for the documentary, not for the archives necessarily. 55 00:03:11.700 --> 00:03:14.000 I don't know the difference between the archives and the documentary. 56 00:03:14.020 --> 00:03:19.840 The archives are when I say to you, in 1932 you went on the road and you did three ballets 57 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:21.280 and we go through all that stuff. 58 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:22.580 She knows a lot about me now. 59 00:03:22.700 --> 00:03:23.160 Right. 60 00:03:23.620 --> 00:03:24.380 Too much maybe. 61 00:03:24.880 --> 00:03:25.360 Maybe. 62 00:03:25.980 --> 00:03:27.360 Where do you want us to start? 63 00:03:27.640 --> 00:03:29.020 I forget everything. 64 00:03:29.320 --> 00:03:34.440 Why don't we start with you making a comment on the pictures in the room, Jerry, and you 65 00:03:34.440 --> 00:03:35.660 were saying this is the Guatemalan room. 66 00:03:35.720 --> 00:03:37.700 Remember you were explaining that before to Jerry. 67 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:39.680 You were saying Andres pictures. 68 00:03:39.880 --> 00:03:40.300 Just go ahead. 69 00:03:42.040 --> 00:03:43.980 Jerry, you start and say Andres pictures. 70 00:03:44.820 --> 00:03:45.100 Whatever. 71 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:48.200 Ruth, Andres pictures fit perfectly into your room. 72 00:03:49.140 --> 00:03:54.700 Well, the room was made for the pictures because he was in Guatemala and I had this poncho 73 00:03:54.700 --> 00:03:55.980 that you put over your head. 74 00:03:56.520 --> 00:03:56.820 This thing. 75 00:03:57.060 --> 00:03:58.640 And the colors were so beautiful. 76 00:03:59.180 --> 00:04:01.060 And then I added the butterflies. 77 00:04:01.200 --> 00:04:02.520 But he painted all these pictures. 78 00:04:02.720 --> 00:04:04.140 Harley was in Guatemala, I think. 79 00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:06.160 Or anyway, remembering Guatemala. 80 00:04:06.540 --> 00:04:08.800 So this is my Guatemala butterfly room. 81 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:10.020 And I love this little room. 82 00:04:10.140 --> 00:04:10.820 Don't you think it's nice? 83 00:04:10.920 --> 00:04:11.680 I love it too. 84 00:04:11.800 --> 00:04:12.700 Where is Andres? 85 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:14.500 I don't know. 86 00:04:15.880 --> 00:04:16.680 The wandering husband. 87 00:04:16.960 --> 00:04:17.900 He was in Marrakech. 88 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:20.360 He can't take the Chicago winters as you know. 89 00:04:20.840 --> 00:04:21.720 But I think he's in Paris. 90 00:04:21.780 --> 00:04:23.160 Now he'll be back in April. 91 00:04:23.660 --> 00:04:24.100 Right. 92 00:04:24.100 --> 00:04:25.380 I hope we'll have good weather. 93 00:04:25.640 --> 00:04:25.900 It is. 94 00:04:26.100 --> 00:04:29.240 He was here most of that bad weather and he just never went out. 95 00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:30.740 He just stayed home all day. 96 00:04:30.760 --> 00:04:32.840 So I said, why don't you go on to Marrakech? 97 00:04:32.900 --> 00:04:34.480 That's what place he likes so much. 98 00:04:34.860 --> 00:04:36.220 I don't like it, but he does. 99 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:38.300 And he's in Paris now? 100 00:04:38.460 --> 00:04:40.000 I think so, as far as I know. 101 00:04:40.300 --> 00:04:41.500 What did you do in Paris? 102 00:04:41.520 --> 00:04:43.600 You were there for 10 days in February. 103 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:45.080 What does one do in Paris? 104 00:04:45.080 --> 00:04:46.040 Well, what did you do? 105 00:04:46.060 --> 00:04:46.720 That's the question. 106 00:04:46.760 --> 00:04:48.380 I went to the opera once. 107 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:48.960 Yes. 108 00:04:49.840 --> 00:04:51.500 And it was perfectly terrible. 109 00:04:51.500 --> 00:04:55.140 It was called Dr. Faustus, a new opera. 110 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:57.520 I don't know who wrote it and I don't want to know. 111 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:00.620 And it must have cost them at least a million dollars to put it on. 112 00:05:00.620 --> 00:05:02.240 It was so elaborately staged. 113 00:05:02.320 --> 00:05:03.000 It was awful. 114 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:06.520 But what about the ambience of the house itself, the opera house? 115 00:05:06.520 --> 00:05:06.720 It's so beautiful. 116 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:08.740 Oh, it's a perfect theater. 117 00:05:08.820 --> 00:05:10.920 I love that opera house there. 118 00:05:11.280 --> 00:05:11.880 It's gorgeous. 119 00:05:11.980 --> 00:05:14.220 And I went up and watched one of their classes. 120 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:19.960 And Josette D'Amel, who'd been with us, she gained the class. 121 00:05:19.960 --> 00:05:24.180 And there were these perfectly beautiful girls, all exactly alike. 122 00:05:24.660 --> 00:05:26.020 They were all the same height. 123 00:05:26.300 --> 00:05:27.440 They were all beautiful. 124 00:05:27.880 --> 00:05:29.400 They all had the same technique. 125 00:05:29.400 --> 00:05:30.560 And it was very boring. 126 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:32.340 But he had any personality. 127 00:05:32.640 --> 00:05:34.360 But it was interesting to see. 128 00:05:36.220 --> 00:05:37.820 And, well, I don't know what else. 129 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:39.080 They weren't doing it. 130 00:05:39.080 --> 00:05:40.640 They never seemed to do anything much. 131 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:44.360 They've got 90 dancers or 100 perfect dancers. 132 00:05:44.820 --> 00:05:46.160 They don't know what to do with them. 133 00:05:47.340 --> 00:05:48.340 Now, what else did you do? 134 00:05:48.340 --> 00:05:50.480 Did Andre take you to Archistrat to eat? 135 00:05:51.220 --> 00:05:51.620 No. 136 00:05:52.100 --> 00:05:53.200 We always eat in the Rélai. 137 00:05:53.580 --> 00:05:55.220 I don't care much about food. 138 00:05:55.380 --> 00:05:55.920 I'm like you. 139 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:57.540 I don't like to go to fancy restaurants. 140 00:05:58.140 --> 00:05:59.560 Everybody told me about that restaurant. 141 00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:02.640 And I wanted to go, but Andre didn't care about food either. 142 00:06:02.660 --> 00:06:03.440 So we didn't bother. 143 00:06:03.640 --> 00:06:05.120 He likes it, but only with Dolores. 144 00:06:05.320 --> 00:06:06.960 He doesn't like it with you and me. 145 00:06:07.640 --> 00:06:09.560 Well, Dolores, does she appreciate good food? 146 00:06:09.620 --> 00:06:10.020 Yes. 147 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:10.920 Oh, she does. 148 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:12.800 Well, he adores Dolores. 149 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:13.720 And so do I. 150 00:06:13.960 --> 00:06:17.020 And so tell Dolores, next time I see her in Paris, 151 00:06:17.020 --> 00:06:18.340 she'll have to take me to that restaurant. 152 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:19.280 And you'll leave me at home. 153 00:06:19.400 --> 00:06:22.220 We'll leave you at home with your own hamburger and Coca-Cola. 154 00:06:22.640 --> 00:06:23.800 You're a big bore. 155 00:06:23.860 --> 00:06:26.560 I like the Rélai too, because you can have the hamburger there. 156 00:06:26.740 --> 00:06:28.100 Yeah, I like eating in the Rélai. 157 00:06:28.180 --> 00:06:29.860 It's so much easier than eating anyplace else. 158 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:32.760 I stayed in that hotel, so I just always eat there. 159 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:34.140 What else did you do? 160 00:06:35.620 --> 00:06:36.400 Well, let's see. 161 00:06:36.400 --> 00:06:38.120 I bought a few clothes, not many. 162 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:39.160 Very few. 163 00:06:40.400 --> 00:06:42.800 And I can't think of anything else we did. 164 00:06:43.760 --> 00:06:45.840 I can't remember really what we did. 165 00:06:45.840 --> 00:06:47.760 We were busy all the time. 166 00:06:47.940 --> 00:06:53.160 We always go to museums, you know, and there was nothing to see. 167 00:06:53.240 --> 00:06:59.940 We did see the Paris Opera dancers gave an all-Tudor evening, 168 00:06:59.960 --> 00:07:00.920 which was very interesting. 169 00:07:00.940 --> 00:07:02.660 It was their idea to do it. 170 00:07:03.080 --> 00:07:05.080 And I didn't know they even knew anything about Tudor, 171 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:06.420 but they put it on themselves. 172 00:07:06.540 --> 00:07:07.600 Tudor never came near it. 173 00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:09.520 And I thought they did them awfully well. 174 00:07:09.520 --> 00:07:10.600 I was very surprised. 175 00:07:10.640 --> 00:07:13.660 It shows they can do something if they have an idea and want to. 176 00:07:13.940 --> 00:07:15.820 Did you ever tell Thea about your house in Paris? 177 00:07:15.820 --> 00:07:17.300 Did she ever discuss that with you? 178 00:07:17.400 --> 00:07:18.460 A little bit. 179 00:07:19.540 --> 00:07:20.240 Have you seen the house? 180 00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:21.840 Just on the outside. 181 00:07:22.020 --> 00:07:22.580 I was never inside. 182 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:23.480 You never went inside? 183 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:26.340 It was DeSette Recompagnie Premiere. 184 00:07:26.700 --> 00:07:28.460 I don't know how we happened to get that house. 185 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:29.360 It was way out. 186 00:07:31.140 --> 00:07:35.000 And the reason I finally saw it is I had so much trouble with the roof. 187 00:07:35.060 --> 00:07:37.580 I always had roof trouble no matter what building I'm in. 188 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:39.840 The roof was always leaking or something. 189 00:07:39.940 --> 00:07:44.680 And this was a sort of a slanting glass roof, and it always leaked. 190 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:47.520 So that was too much trouble. 191 00:07:48.620 --> 00:07:53.580 So Clavet bought it, my friend Clavet, who lives next door to me in Saint-Ropé. 192 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:57.000 And he needed it just to store his pictures in, so he bought it for that. 193 00:07:57.140 --> 00:08:00.840 It was a nice great big room, and I used it as a studio, put a mirror in it. 194 00:08:01.400 --> 00:08:03.920 We lived there quite often, but not too often. 195 00:08:04.820 --> 00:08:08.540 And I had some friends who lived there all the time, and they got out whenever we came. 196 00:08:09.380 --> 00:08:10.660 So that worked out all right. 197 00:08:11.940 --> 00:08:13.820 But I only want one place now. 198 00:08:13.820 --> 00:08:15.140 I don't want a million different places. 199 00:08:15.380 --> 00:08:16.660 There's just too much trouble. 200 00:08:17.480 --> 00:08:19.780 I like to have one place, and this is it. 201 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:23.660 How did you keep all those places you used to have? 202 00:08:23.800 --> 00:08:29.360 You had your apartment in Chicago, big apartment, Hubbard Woods, Paris, and Saint-Ropé. 203 00:08:29.480 --> 00:08:30.600 Well, I had Tom Fisher. 204 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:34.540 Tom liked to move around, and he likes to buy houses next to our house. 205 00:08:34.540 --> 00:08:36.360 He did like to buy houses. It was true. 206 00:08:36.580 --> 00:08:39.160 He loved to buy houses, and he liked to... 207 00:08:39.160 --> 00:08:40.180 I don't know, he liked that. 208 00:08:40.180 --> 00:08:45.180 I liked it too when I had him, but I can't go out to Hubbard Woods all by myself. 209 00:08:45.980 --> 00:08:48.720 And Andre never cared about Hubbard Woods. 210 00:08:48.740 --> 00:08:50.460 He never cared about Saint-Ropé either. 211 00:08:51.020 --> 00:08:53.780 He doesn't like Chicago. He likes Chicago fairly well now. 212 00:08:54.060 --> 00:08:55.780 He doesn't like the climate, neither do I. 213 00:08:56.300 --> 00:08:59.320 Now Ruth and I like Saint-Ropé because we like the sin there. 214 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:03.460 Oh, the beach there's wonderful... 215 00:09:03.460 --> 00:09:05.280 Did she tell you about the beach at Saint-Ropé? 216 00:09:05.700 --> 00:09:06.860 We talked about it a little. 217 00:09:06.860 --> 00:09:09.140 But did she tell you what beach she went to? 218 00:09:09.640 --> 00:09:11.140 What was the name of it? 219 00:09:11.160 --> 00:09:13.900 Well, I don't remember, but it was the nude homosexual beach. 220 00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:16.780 Which was next door... come on, that's the truth. 221 00:09:17.700 --> 00:09:20.180 And it was next door to the nude family beach. 222 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:22.160 The nude beach, yes. That's right. 223 00:09:22.180 --> 00:09:23.640 But it was the nude homosexual beach. 224 00:09:23.680 --> 00:09:24.960 I didn't know there were homosexuals. 225 00:09:25.060 --> 00:09:27.380 Come on, Ruth. They were all these good-looking guys. 226 00:09:27.520 --> 00:09:28.340 That's all there were. 227 00:09:28.540 --> 00:09:32.800 Well, I walked along there in my little bikini all by myself 228 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:36.720 and looking at all these naked people, and I thought they looked perfectly awful. 229 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:38.980 And I looked a little beyond. 230 00:09:38.980 --> 00:09:41.600 There were these gorgeous-looking boys on the group. 231 00:09:42.100 --> 00:09:43.680 I said, I'll go up and see who they are. 232 00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:45.820 And they suddenly started waving at me. 233 00:09:46.520 --> 00:09:51.500 And it was all of the pretty shroyo ballies, stark naked, and they looked divine. 234 00:09:53.020 --> 00:09:53.980 I didn't know there were homosexuals. 235 00:09:54.020 --> 00:09:54.960 Maybe there were, maybe they weren't. 236 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:55.560 Well... 237 00:09:55.560 --> 00:09:56.220 I didn't ask. 238 00:09:57.460 --> 00:10:02.360 Now, see Ruth, the first time we were there, I was a little aghast. 239 00:10:02.420 --> 00:10:03.620 And then we were there with Dolores. 240 00:10:03.740 --> 00:10:05.040 And then Johnny came along. 241 00:10:05.040 --> 00:10:08.460 Dolores said to me, well, Johnny was about 18, 242 00:10:08.780 --> 00:10:11.760 can't possibly take Johnny to this beach. 243 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:14.880 So I said to Ruth, as we had arrived at the parking lot, 244 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:17.440 maybe this is not such a good idea. 245 00:10:18.020 --> 00:10:19.680 And Ruth said, don't be ridiculous. 246 00:10:19.760 --> 00:10:20.660 Come with me, Johnny. 247 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:22.200 I'll show you what life is about. 248 00:10:23.760 --> 00:10:25.080 I put the child into the beach. 249 00:10:25.420 --> 00:10:26.640 I don't remember that. 250 00:10:26.680 --> 00:10:28.260 Oh, I remember that, like yesterday. 251 00:10:28.380 --> 00:10:32.260 And then it was also the time of the beach when Ruth went swimming. 252 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:36.160 And we were with Mr. Ludo. 253 00:10:36.580 --> 00:10:37.440 This is... 254 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:38.200 Seriously, Ludo. 255 00:10:38.420 --> 00:10:41.480 Russian photographer who transplanted to Paris. 256 00:10:42.580 --> 00:10:43.960 And Ruth said, well, it's very uncomfortable. 257 00:10:44.700 --> 00:10:46.540 I said, well, Ruth, then take off your suit. 258 00:10:46.680 --> 00:10:48.300 Ruth said, I always do what my lawyer said, 259 00:10:48.340 --> 00:10:49.980 and she took off her bathing suit. 260 00:10:51.100 --> 00:10:51.380 Oh! 261 00:10:51.380 --> 00:10:52.580 Well, that's nice. 262 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:53.740 That was shocking. 263 00:10:54.980 --> 00:10:55.980 I'm sure you're shocked. 264 00:10:55.980 --> 00:10:56.560 When was it? 265 00:10:57.300 --> 00:10:58.780 That's why, when was that? 266 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:00.660 Five years ago, six years? 267 00:11:00.880 --> 00:11:02.240 Last time we were in Saint Tropez. 268 00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:03.260 Not too long ago. 269 00:11:03.260 --> 00:11:04.920 I saw it about three years ago. 270 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:06.560 About five or six years ago. 271 00:11:06.920 --> 00:11:08.380 I think that's great. 272 00:11:10.100 --> 00:11:12.460 Well, nobody thinks about nudity there, you know. 273 00:11:12.800 --> 00:11:14.500 There's nudist beach and everything. 274 00:11:16.300 --> 00:11:18.300 But you see, it's interesting about our spouses 275 00:11:18.300 --> 00:11:20.540 because Andre doesn't like to sit on the beach 276 00:11:20.540 --> 00:11:22.760 and Dolores doesn't like to sit on the beach, 277 00:11:22.820 --> 00:11:24.460 but Ruth and I like to sit on the beach. 278 00:11:24.660 --> 00:11:26.200 We could rot on the beach 279 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:31.480 where our spouses think it is not intellectually rewarding. 280 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:32.460 That's right. 281 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:35.520 Our spouses are too intellectual for us, aren't they? 282 00:11:35.680 --> 00:11:36.500 I think so. 283 00:11:36.780 --> 00:11:38.020 They're too smart for us. 284 00:11:39.900 --> 00:11:40.800 I love the beach. 285 00:11:41.020 --> 00:11:42.660 It's good for your soul, don't you think? 286 00:11:43.100 --> 00:11:43.840 I think it's very good. 287 00:11:44.060 --> 00:11:45.180 It's bad for your body. 288 00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:46.040 Did you know that? 289 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:47.420 Sitting in the sun is very bad for your body. 290 00:11:47.520 --> 00:11:49.640 I only found that out very late in life. 291 00:11:50.640 --> 00:11:52.500 But it's good for your soul. 292 00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:55.560 You see, Ruth will read on the beach. 293 00:11:55.800 --> 00:11:57.940 She'll use her time somewhat constructively. 294 00:11:57.940 --> 00:11:59.360 I won't. I just like to... 295 00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:00.780 Oh, he's a lazy good-for-nothing. 296 00:12:00.780 --> 00:12:02.500 Right. I like that. 297 00:12:03.640 --> 00:12:05.720 I don't believe it. You're a workaholic. 298 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.000 You and your wife both are workaholics. 299 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:09.460 They don't do anything but work. 300 00:12:09.620 --> 00:12:11.000 That's true now, Jerry. 301 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:11.700 That's true. 302 00:12:11.940 --> 00:12:13.880 Yeah. It's all you like to do is work. 303 00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:16.220 But I like the beach, too. 304 00:12:17.400 --> 00:12:17.900 All right. 305 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:19.760 Particularly when you took off your bathing suit. 306 00:12:19.780 --> 00:12:20.640 That was exciting. 307 00:12:23.680 --> 00:12:24.120 Well... 308 00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:25.400 All right. I'm getting hot. 309 00:12:26.220 --> 00:12:27.480 I'll take off my clothes now. 310 00:12:28.020 --> 00:12:29.340 No, we can't do that on a field. 311 00:12:29.340 --> 00:12:30.140 That would be great. 312 00:12:33.300 --> 00:12:35.340 I don't ever go to Oak Street Beach here. 313 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:36.200 It's too dangerous. 314 00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:38.020 I'm scared to go. 315 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:39.920 Well, you have to go with somebody. 316 00:12:41.460 --> 00:12:42.540 Yeah. Who let go with that? 317 00:12:42.540 --> 00:12:43.440 I don't know anybody who likes to go. 318 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:44.540 Andre won't go. 319 00:12:44.800 --> 00:12:46.400 Well, maybe... 320 00:12:46.400 --> 00:12:48.780 I'd rather have a man to go with. 321 00:12:48.940 --> 00:12:50.780 It's not safe down there. It really isn't. 322 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:51.740 I'm not kidding. 323 00:12:52.420 --> 00:12:53.600 It's very unsafe down there. 324 00:12:53.660 --> 00:12:55.920 Maybe we can get the cameraman to come with us. 325 00:12:56.860 --> 00:12:58.560 We'll get the cameraman to go. 326 00:12:58.580 --> 00:13:00.160 You get a lot of attention that way. 327 00:13:00.640 --> 00:13:01.520 With the camera person. 328 00:13:02.020 --> 00:13:03.020 Uh-huh. 329 00:13:03.940 --> 00:13:06.300 I thought maybe we could talk a little about this picture, Ruth. 330 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:07.120 What picture? 331 00:13:07.540 --> 00:13:08.680 The Chiquetti picture. 332 00:13:10.380 --> 00:13:13.000 Why don't you explain to Jerry about how important this is? 333 00:13:13.020 --> 00:13:15.460 Because I don't think you really understand the importance of this picture. 334 00:13:16.660 --> 00:13:17.680 Do you know that picture? 335 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:22.240 That's what Mr. Chiquetti said is the most perfect arabesque. 336 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:25.180 That's right. Now, that's a hard pose to get into. 337 00:13:25.180 --> 00:13:26.660 Tell me why. 338 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:31.500 Well, you see, everything has to be just at the right angles. 339 00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:34.000 That foot's just at the right angle. 340 00:13:34.660 --> 00:13:36.280 Everything's right about this picture. 341 00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:41.360 And so I don't want it to go down to posterity as somebody else. 342 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:42.800 Which it was in that book. 343 00:13:42.940 --> 00:13:43.900 I think it was specific. 344 00:13:44.700 --> 00:13:46.480 Yes, it was a Russian gallery. 345 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:51.620 Yeah, and it used this picture with my picture with her name on it. 346 00:13:51.880 --> 00:13:53.680 And I don't know what to do about it. 347 00:13:53.740 --> 00:13:54.460 You're a lawyer. 348 00:13:54.460 --> 00:13:56.240 That's right. That's what we're researching. 349 00:13:56.340 --> 00:13:59.060 I believe it's an invasion of your right to privacy. 350 00:13:59.100 --> 00:14:00.740 I think it's a defamation. 351 00:14:02.840 --> 00:14:05.460 And whatever it is, it's something awfully wrong. 352 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:06.580 Now, the problem is... 353 00:14:06.580 --> 00:14:07.440 How to correct it. 354 00:14:07.560 --> 00:14:10.980 It's how to correct it. Because they have this big expensive 45-dollar book 355 00:14:10.980 --> 00:14:14.020 in which they probably sold several thousands. 356 00:14:15.060 --> 00:14:20.040 So, it'll probably be good for the lawyers, bad for the publisher, and bad for you, Ruth. 357 00:14:20.300 --> 00:14:20.860 But I'll have a lot of fun. 358 00:14:20.860 --> 00:14:21.940 Why would it be bad for me? 359 00:14:21.940 --> 00:14:25.620 Because it'll cost you money paying me to go litigate against the... 360 00:14:25.620 --> 00:14:27.680 Well, maybe you'll give me a little percentage off. 361 00:14:27.900 --> 00:14:28.540 That's true. 362 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:31.060 It'll be a volume discount. 363 00:14:34.020 --> 00:14:35.940 Lawyers are on expensive. I know that. 364 00:14:36.040 --> 00:14:36.680 Yes, very expensive. 365 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:39.500 Because you were married to one 40 years, so you know how expensive they are. 366 00:14:39.500 --> 00:14:40.640 I know all about lawyers. 367 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:42.440 You can't tell me nothing about lawyers. 368 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.380 But it is an interesting intellectual property issue. 369 00:14:46.860 --> 00:14:50.040 And I'm sure that they're in a lot of trouble. 370 00:14:50.140 --> 00:14:51.860 And I don't really know what the answer is. 371 00:14:51.860 --> 00:14:54.140 Because I think it's a very unusual problem. 372 00:14:55.220 --> 00:14:57.140 They usually don't make an error like that. 373 00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:57.760 No, they don't. 374 00:14:57.980 --> 00:15:01.280 But I tell you, in Dance Magazine, which is published once a month, 375 00:15:01.340 --> 00:15:02.600 they make errors all the time. 376 00:15:02.660 --> 00:15:04.320 And they always have a little column that says, 377 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:08.800 this is wrong. We apologize for whatever it was they were apologizing for. 378 00:15:09.300 --> 00:15:12.520 And each month it comes out, but that book is set and published. 379 00:15:12.560 --> 00:15:16.480 And now it'll go down to posterity as specificity. 380 00:15:16.660 --> 00:15:19.960 No, no. They'll have to do something. 381 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:21.880 Well, I don't want them to give me any money. 382 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:24.060 Money doesn't matter on this side of the thing. 383 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:28.900 No, they have to somehow publicize the world. 384 00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:32.800 I don't know, we see now if it was a car, they could make them recall the cars. 385 00:15:33.700 --> 00:15:34.400 I think that if, 386 00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:38.760 probably a lot of them are sitting in a warehouse. 387 00:15:38.900 --> 00:15:40.720 I mean, it's often the case with books. 388 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:45.560 You could make them take and get a paste-on thing 389 00:15:45.560 --> 00:15:48.840 where they corrected all of the copies that they had not yet sold. 390 00:15:48.860 --> 00:15:48.860 391 00:15:48.860 --> 00:15:50.180 Could they do that? 392 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:53.280 No, right on the page, Ruth, where they would paste over something 393 00:15:53.280 --> 00:15:54.640 so it would be correct. 394 00:15:55.160 --> 00:15:58.020 In other words, they would take her name off and they would paste her name on it. 395 00:15:58.300 --> 00:15:58.900 This is the picture. 396 00:15:58.940 --> 00:16:00.900 It's a whole chapter about her. 397 00:16:01.780 --> 00:16:03.420 Right, so even the, 398 00:16:03.420 --> 00:16:07.440 even the Elange that you're talking about 399 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:09.060 isn't necessarily going to... 400 00:16:09.060 --> 00:16:11.560 But you're right, it's sitting there in the warehouse, you see. 401 00:16:11.620 --> 00:16:13.300 But I'm talking about those books 402 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:15.460 which have already been distributed. 403 00:16:15.660 --> 00:16:17.080 I don't know what you could do about those. 404 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:17.120 You know? 405 00:16:19.260 --> 00:16:20.520 So, it's going to be... 406 00:16:20.520 --> 00:16:21.380 We better do something. 407 00:16:21.400 --> 00:16:23.400 We're going to do something fast. I have it. 408 00:16:23.680 --> 00:16:25.060 Somebody's looking at this very moment. 409 00:16:25.140 --> 00:16:27.260 You're supposed to be a very good lawyer, I thought. 410 00:16:27.420 --> 00:16:30.280 Well, I'm supposed to be. We'll try. 411 00:16:31.540 --> 00:16:32.580 What would Tom have done? 412 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:34.740 Oh, he would have sued everybody. 413 00:16:34.880 --> 00:16:37.380 He may have to do that. He'd love to sue people. 414 00:16:38.140 --> 00:16:39.520 He would sue people. 415 00:16:39.700 --> 00:16:41.940 As a matter of fact, I told Ruth I was getting ready to argue a case 416 00:16:41.940 --> 00:16:43.400 in the United States Supreme Court. 417 00:16:43.520 --> 00:16:45.580 And I came across a Tom Fisher decision 418 00:16:45.580 --> 00:16:48.020 where he sued the car rental company 419 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:50.920 over some charge 420 00:16:50.920 --> 00:16:52.480 that he thought was incorrect 421 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:54.960 and went all the way up to the United States Court of Appeals 422 00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:56.080 where your husband sits 423 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:58.460 over this day's car rental. 424 00:16:59.300 --> 00:16:59.960 So he loved... 425 00:16:59.960 --> 00:17:02.240 Tom was the person if 426 00:17:03.400 --> 00:17:05.260 he lent you $10,000. 427 00:17:05.600 --> 00:17:06.120 And you said, 428 00:17:06.280 --> 00:17:09.940 here, Tom, here's $9,999.99. 429 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:12.280 I am not going to pay you that penny. 430 00:17:13.020 --> 00:17:14.020 He would. 431 00:17:14.660 --> 00:17:15.560 Not take it. 432 00:17:15.560 --> 00:17:18.620 And just love to sue you 433 00:17:18.620 --> 00:17:19.640 for that $10,000. 434 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:20.840 I didn't know he liked to make the decision. 435 00:17:21.120 --> 00:17:23.580 He really liked to be litigious. 436 00:17:23.700 --> 00:17:24.860 He was a litigious person. 437 00:17:27.120 --> 00:17:28.620 He was apparently... 438 00:17:28.620 --> 00:17:31.240 I mean, that King Ranch lawsuit was... 439 00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:32.380 You were involved with that. 440 00:17:32.560 --> 00:17:34.180 No, I was never involved in that. 441 00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:37.900 He... I was involved in... 442 00:17:37.900 --> 00:17:39.460 As a result of that lawsuit, 443 00:17:39.820 --> 00:17:41.620 Ruth had certain property. 444 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:44.500 Part of the old King Ranch, 445 00:17:44.860 --> 00:17:45.540 part of the Padres' property. 446 00:17:45.540 --> 00:17:46.380 He had a very high interest in the country. 447 00:17:46.380 --> 00:17:47.280 Island, mineral interest. 448 00:17:48.100 --> 00:17:50.260 But he, before his death, 449 00:17:50.320 --> 00:17:52.200 litigated against the King Ranch 450 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:54.300 trustees on behalf of 451 00:17:54.300 --> 00:17:57.700 two heirs for 30 years. 452 00:17:58.240 --> 00:17:59.640 I know. We talked about that. 453 00:17:59.660 --> 00:18:01.920 So that they just 454 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:02.740 detested him. 455 00:18:02.800 --> 00:18:05.960 And there was a lawyer, Sherman Sterling, in New York, 456 00:18:06.060 --> 00:18:07.780 a firm with whom I do a lot of business. 457 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:10.060 And this lawyer would not talk to me 458 00:18:10.060 --> 00:18:11.760 because I was Tom's, 459 00:18:11.760 --> 00:18:13.280 you know, lawyer for his estate 460 00:18:13.280 --> 00:18:16.160 until his partner certified that I was alright. 461 00:18:16.540 --> 00:18:18.100 And they could talk to me. 462 00:18:18.540 --> 00:18:19.500 Oh, I didn't know that. 463 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:21.640 He had a big argument over this. 464 00:18:21.760 --> 00:18:22.360 Mr. Curlin. 465 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:25.540 And as a matter of fact, Mr. Curlin, show you how Tom was. 466 00:18:25.560 --> 00:18:26.640 Never heard of him. 467 00:18:26.860 --> 00:18:29.180 They had a dispute with Mr. Curlin 468 00:18:29.180 --> 00:18:30.440 over some mineral interest. 469 00:18:30.600 --> 00:18:33.040 And Mr. Curlin paid into the clerk of the court 470 00:18:33.040 --> 00:18:35.080 to Tom $17,000, 471 00:18:35.180 --> 00:18:37.140 which Tom never took from the clerk. 472 00:18:37.780 --> 00:18:39.680 So after his death, I got that money 473 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:42.220 and had been sitting there maybe 10 years. 474 00:18:42.220 --> 00:18:44.000 What did you do? Without earning interest. 475 00:18:44.020 --> 00:18:44.960 Spend it foolishly? 476 00:18:45.120 --> 00:18:46.900 No, we put it in the estate where it belongs. 477 00:18:49.040 --> 00:18:50.500 So he was a very... 478 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:52.400 Cantankerous. 479 00:18:52.900 --> 00:18:53.340 No, litigious. 480 00:18:54.760 --> 00:18:56.500 Let's stop and we'll change the cassette now. 481 00:18:57.960 --> 00:18:59.300 Litigious, that's a new word. 482 00:18:59.840 --> 00:18:59.980 Okay. 483 00:19:00.780 --> 00:19:02.120 Where should we go from here?