WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.680 --> 00:00:06.460 We don't ever edit our lives. 2 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:15.780 Well, you had to have sex in your life, otherwise you would have fidelity. 3 00:00:16.040 --> 00:00:19.100 So there is a contradiction or something. 4 00:00:19.440 --> 00:00:21.380 How does this look, the red and the shot? 5 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:25.100 John? I mean the table? Oh, you're on burst. 6 00:00:25.100 --> 00:00:25.320 Okay. 7 00:00:27.540 --> 00:00:28.700 Shouldn't see it. 8 00:00:29.080 --> 00:00:30.080 You probably don't see it. 9 00:00:30.700 --> 00:00:32.440 Well, you have color on your TV set now. 10 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:34.320 Oh, the TV man came and fixed it. 11 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:36.680 Oh, he fixed it? Oh, sorry. 12 00:00:36.680 --> 00:00:37.920 I told you we were going to do that. 13 00:00:39.220 --> 00:00:41.060 Oh, no. A whole new board? 14 00:00:41.180 --> 00:00:43.500 Yeah, it's only about $80 to replace it. 15 00:00:43.500 --> 00:00:45.060 Oh. But not as it was, it was just loose. 16 00:00:45.500 --> 00:00:47.740 Oh, it was loose? That was what was wrong with it? 17 00:00:47.760 --> 00:00:50.340 Well, he had it serviced in 75, I guess. 18 00:00:51.100 --> 00:00:52.940 I got it in 75? Yeah. 19 00:00:52.940 --> 00:00:55.480 When you moved in here? When did you move in here? 75? 20 00:00:56.080 --> 00:00:57.300 14 years ago. 21 00:00:57.760 --> 00:00:58.940 No, I don't know if it was earlier. 22 00:00:59.060 --> 00:00:59.540 70. 23 00:01:01.360 --> 00:01:03.760 I don't think I had the same television, though. 24 00:01:03.760 --> 00:01:05.560 I think that's fairly new-ish. 25 00:01:05.940 --> 00:01:08.420 Looks fairly new. Yeah, it's not old. 26 00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:10.700 Well, he said it was a 75. 27 00:01:11.220 --> 00:01:11.700 What's wrong? 28 00:01:12.160 --> 00:01:13.620 He said it was a 75 model. 29 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:17.840 Because I guess the solid state came out then in 75? 30 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:20.500 The what? Solid state? I don't know. 31 00:01:20.500 --> 00:01:23.320 No bulbs. There aren't any bulbs in there. 32 00:01:23.420 --> 00:01:25.560 Oh, that's what a solid state is? No tubes. 33 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:26.740 No tubes. I see. 34 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:30.300 Eddie, I thought it had something to do with the thing on the roof. 35 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:31.240 The what do you call it? 36 00:01:31.320 --> 00:01:32.380 Aerial. Aerial. 37 00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:35.120 No, not for this long. Your neighbors would have complained. 38 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:36.540 I mean, nobody would have said that. 39 00:01:36.540 --> 00:01:38.020 Well, I don't think they have a probe. 40 00:01:38.620 --> 00:01:40.500 I do indeed. I still need it. Thank you. 41 00:01:40.940 --> 00:01:42.120 You'll get it back sometime, right? 42 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:43.160 You will get it back sometime. 43 00:01:43.160 --> 00:01:44.800 All right. That's my book. 44 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:48.820 I know. I know. 45 00:01:48.820 --> 00:01:49.360 I'm going to read it. 46 00:01:49.540 --> 00:01:50.160 For me? 47 00:01:50.500 --> 00:01:52.220 No, for myself. I need a press shot. 48 00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:55.140 So I said, now put me next to Mrs. Page's portrait. 49 00:01:56.020 --> 00:01:56.420 Goodie. 50 00:01:56.440 --> 00:01:58.260 I always like those. We'll see if they come up. 51 00:01:58.760 --> 00:01:59.460 Will you give me one? 52 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:01.280 I'm photogenic. 53 00:02:02.180 --> 00:02:02.580 Oh. 54 00:02:02.580 --> 00:02:04.260 See, Ruth is photogenic. They are photogenic. 55 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:07.200 Well, you are too. Oh, you are too. 56 00:02:07.220 --> 00:02:10.080 I saw you on television once and I was so impressed. 57 00:02:10.320 --> 00:02:10.740 I'll tell you that. 58 00:02:10.740 --> 00:02:11.140 That was a jigsaw. 59 00:02:11.140 --> 00:02:14.640 He sounded intelligent. I don't know if he is, but he sounded intelligent. 60 00:02:15.500 --> 00:02:16.860 He talked very easily. 61 00:02:16.860 --> 00:02:19.180 It's because our husband and I went to the same law school. 62 00:02:19.720 --> 00:02:20.160 Harvard. 63 00:02:20.420 --> 00:02:22.500 She likes Harvard Law School, right? 64 00:02:22.640 --> 00:02:24.700 Yeah, I do. I like lawyers. 65 00:02:25.440 --> 00:02:27.520 They are so much more intelligent than any of us. 66 00:02:27.880 --> 00:02:29.080 We don't think logically. 67 00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:33.400 Dancers have to think too, you know, but they don't have to think so logically. 68 00:02:34.320 --> 00:02:37.020 We have to, with our brains, direct our body what they do, 69 00:02:37.160 --> 00:02:40.500 but lawyers can talk on any subject and be logical about it. 70 00:02:40.520 --> 00:02:41.580 Don't you think that's true? 71 00:02:41.780 --> 00:02:43.180 Well, I think you are very logical. 72 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:45.900 I think you write very well and I think you think very clearly. 73 00:02:45.900 --> 00:02:46.640 You do? 74 00:02:47.660 --> 00:02:47.660 75 00:02:47.720 --> 00:02:48.120 Well. 76 00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:50.160 You have to think clearly to think of ballets. 77 00:02:50.200 --> 00:02:51.060 You have to put them down. 78 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:51.940 You are very literate. 79 00:02:52.020 --> 00:02:53.300 You are a very literate person. 80 00:02:53.880 --> 00:02:54.560 Extremely literate. 81 00:02:54.680 --> 00:02:56.540 More literate than many of my partners. 82 00:02:57.180 --> 00:02:58.180 I'm sure that's true. 83 00:02:58.980 --> 00:02:59.900 Who are your partners? 84 00:03:00.620 --> 00:03:03.000 Well, they are not all graduates of the Harvard Law School. 85 00:03:03.180 --> 00:03:04.260 That's part of the problem. 86 00:03:06.040 --> 00:03:07.040 Someone went to Yale. 87 00:03:07.460 --> 00:03:09.780 Oh, the Yale Law School is nothing, is it? 88 00:03:09.820 --> 00:03:10.260 Right. 89 00:03:11.140 --> 00:03:11.620 I know. 90 00:03:11.860 --> 00:03:14.140 I have to have Harvard lawyers. That's true. 91 00:03:14.140 --> 00:03:16.700 Well, Tom was kind of emotional, wasn't he, really? 92 00:03:17.660 --> 00:03:20.080 He was a yes and no. 93 00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:25.220 I would say Tom was, he had a temper, so in that sense, 94 00:03:25.300 --> 00:03:28.900 but he was highly intellectual, so I think he was, 95 00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:32.480 I didn't see his temper too often. 96 00:03:33.160 --> 00:03:33.660 Did you, Ruth? 97 00:03:33.760 --> 00:03:35.320 Would you say he was a person of? 98 00:03:35.340 --> 00:03:35.780 No. 99 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:37.260 He never got mad at me. 100 00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:38.480 He was always nice to me. 101 00:03:38.880 --> 00:03:41.800 He was an absolute tiger at looking after Ruth's interests. 102 00:03:41.980 --> 00:03:42.420 Yes. 103 00:03:42.420 --> 00:03:43.300 Very. 104 00:03:43.480 --> 00:03:45.400 I mean, if you look at the New York Public Library 105 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:48.420 dance collection of Ruth's papers, you see these 106 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:51.420 thousands and thousands of letters Tom would write, 107 00:03:51.500 --> 00:03:53.680 because if he got on a subject, he would never give up 108 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:55.360 until he achieved satisfaction. 109 00:03:55.460 --> 00:03:56.720 That's true. That's very true. 110 00:03:56.820 --> 00:03:57.660 He was very tenacious. 111 00:03:58.120 --> 00:03:58.880 Extremely tenacious. 112 00:03:59.340 --> 00:03:59.920 Yeah, that's true. 113 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:01.160 So are you? 114 00:04:01.620 --> 00:04:02.040 Am I? 115 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:02.780 Don't you think so? 116 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:05.780 I never thought about it. No. 117 00:04:06.580 --> 00:04:09.080 I let everything go by. 118 00:04:09.880 --> 00:04:11.740 I never insist on anything. 119 00:04:12.700 --> 00:04:14.520 You tried a case against Tom? Is that how you met him? 120 00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:18.080 We and I were on the other side, and this matter started in... 121 00:04:18.760 --> 00:04:20.000 Ten years? There were ten years? 122 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:23.240 More than that. January 19th, March 1956. 123 00:04:23.340 --> 00:04:27.080 I'd been a lawyer eight months, and it went on until 124 00:04:27.700 --> 00:04:31.540 the time of Tom's death in 1969. It still wasn't over. 125 00:04:31.640 --> 00:04:35.400 It was a lady who sold her expectancy. 126 00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:37.800 Right. That was the heir, the king heir that... 127 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:39.740 No, no, this had nothing to do with the king ranks. 128 00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:41.480 This was a woman... 129 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:42.280 Who was it? 130 00:04:42.540 --> 00:04:43.900 Mary Isabel Llewellyn. 131 00:04:44.640 --> 00:04:45.180 Llewellyn? 132 00:04:45.400 --> 00:04:45.940 Llewellyn. 133 00:04:46.200 --> 00:04:46.740 Okay. 134 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:50.740 She sold her expectancy to all these moneylenders on the 135 00:04:50.740 --> 00:04:56.000 East Coast who then subdivided this expectancy into 136 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:59.520 little further interest so that when her father died, 137 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:01.900 that's when the will kicked in, she would have received 138 00:05:01.900 --> 00:05:07.420 her money, then the bank, which is now the Continental 139 00:05:07.420 --> 00:05:10.480 Bank, sued to construe the will and to see if these 140 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:12.640 assignments were valid. So there was about a hundred 141 00:05:12.640 --> 00:05:18.720 parties, and Tom represented many of these moneylenders 142 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:22.220 who had bought the expectancy. In this case, it went on 143 00:05:22.220 --> 00:05:27.180 forever. It was very hard fought. So, and he... 144 00:05:27.180 --> 00:05:29.900 People would settle along the line. His clients settled 145 00:05:30.110 --> 00:05:36.030 the last. So we always had acrimony. And Ruth will tell 146 00:05:36.030 --> 00:05:38.350 you, Tom could talk on the telephone forever because he 147 00:05:38.350 --> 00:05:41.050 could call you and he would start by two-per-ending. 148 00:05:41.110 --> 00:05:44.070 Well, you could put the phone down and write several 149 00:05:44.070 --> 00:05:46.070 briefs and do other things because he would talk for 150 00:05:46.070 --> 00:05:46.710 several hours. 151 00:05:46.910 --> 00:05:48.390 I know somebody else like that. 152 00:05:48.630 --> 00:05:51.490 And, you know, and he didn't mind that she wasn't being 153 00:05:51.490 --> 00:05:54.550 interrupted because he liked to talk. So if he called you, 154 00:05:54.590 --> 00:05:57.150 this was a long session, and you might as well start 155 00:05:57.150 --> 00:05:57.990 doing something else. 156 00:05:58.610 --> 00:06:01.190 Because you could not interrupt him, nor could you 157 00:06:01.190 --> 00:06:03.310 terminate the conversation. Right, Ruth? 158 00:06:03.490 --> 00:06:04.690 I guess so. I don't know. 159 00:06:06.170 --> 00:06:09.190 So that's how I met Tom. And I very much, even though we 160 00:06:09.190 --> 00:06:12.410 were on the other side, I very much admired him as a 161 00:06:12.410 --> 00:06:15.430 lawyer and as a person because I saw him both in court 162 00:06:17.530 --> 00:06:20.630 and out of court. He was very ego-involved because he 163 00:06:20.630 --> 00:06:24.190 was a young woman lawyer. I remember one motion she 164 00:06:24.190 --> 00:06:27.910 argued against him. She said, Now, Mr. Fisher said in 165 00:06:27.910 --> 00:06:31.610 this brief as follows, and by that he meant, and Tom was 166 00:06:31.610 --> 00:06:34.570 very interested, very irritated by that. He said, 167 00:06:34.910 --> 00:06:38.030 Don't tell me what I meant. He said, I'm a master of 168 00:06:38.030 --> 00:06:38.930 the English language. 169 00:06:39.910 --> 00:06:40.970 That was true, I think. 170 00:06:41.010 --> 00:06:43.790 He said, I know what I meant. So you can't tell me what 171 00:06:43.790 --> 00:06:46.990 I meant. But so he was very tenacious in court. He wrote 172 00:06:46.990 --> 00:06:51.510 very good briefs. And out of court, what would appeal to 173 00:06:51.510 --> 00:06:53.970 Ruth is that he did not talk about the law. He would talk 174 00:06:53.970 --> 00:06:56.790 about buying chateaus and traveling in France and 175 00:06:56.790 --> 00:07:01.950 history and all manner of interesting things. So I 176 00:07:01.950 --> 00:07:03.630 enjoyed him very much as a person. 177 00:07:03.650 --> 00:07:06.370 He adored you. He was a great admirer of yours. 178 00:07:06.570 --> 00:07:11.770 Even though we were enemies, legal enemies. So that's how 179 00:07:11.770 --> 00:07:13.250 I met Mr. Fisher. 180 00:07:13.530 --> 00:07:14.530 And he picked you. 181 00:07:14.970 --> 00:07:19.830 He picked me to protect. He called me. He was at the 182 00:07:19.830 --> 00:07:26.050 hospital. And he called me and he said, I want you to 183 00:07:26.050 --> 00:07:30.130 represent a rich widow. And of course he always liked 184 00:07:30.130 --> 00:07:32.710 the sense of the drama. And he didn't tell me who that 185 00:07:32.710 --> 00:07:36.770 person was to be. So I talked to my partners and they 186 00:07:36.770 --> 00:07:40.030 were a little skeptical. And I said, well, I don't see 187 00:07:40.030 --> 00:07:42.730 where I should go because I've always liked Tom. So I'm 188 00:07:42.730 --> 00:07:43.030 going to go. 189 00:07:43.610 --> 00:07:46.030 And I came to the hospital room and Ruth was there and 190 00:07:46.030 --> 00:07:50.190 he said, I want you to meet my wife, Ruth Page. And she 191 00:07:50.190 --> 00:07:53.670 is your client and I'm going to die in a matter of months. 192 00:07:53.670 --> 00:07:56.690 And I want you to take care of her. And I want you to 193 00:07:56.690 --> 00:08:00.390 take care of my affairs. And that's how Ruth and I first 194 00:08:00.390 --> 00:08:04.750 met. And we've been together ever since. That's 16 years. 195 00:08:04.770 --> 00:08:05.350 Right, Ruth? 196 00:08:05.470 --> 00:08:05.870 Yes. 197 00:08:06.350 --> 00:08:07.150 16 years. 198 00:08:07.410 --> 00:08:11.150 Did he really tell Ruth to do everything you said? 199 00:08:11.150 --> 00:08:14.050 Yes. He told that to me too. He said, now you do 200 00:08:14.050 --> 00:08:16.410 everything Jerry Salovey tells you to do. Whatever it is, 201 00:08:16.430 --> 00:08:18.190 you do it. So I said, all right. 202 00:08:18.190 --> 00:08:21.170 And I like to think that he picked a good protector and a 203 00:08:21.170 --> 00:08:25.530 good champion of that page because I do, I think, I look 204 00:08:25.530 --> 00:08:28.090 after her interest and champion her cause. 205 00:08:28.750 --> 00:08:30.830 Just as he did. He was a terrific champion. 206 00:08:30.830 --> 00:08:33.550 Yes, but I couldn't do what he did because he was much 207 00:08:33.550 --> 00:08:39.210 better, he had more time than I. So he could really go 208 00:08:39.210 --> 00:08:42.010 after the details of the ballet, if there were music 209 00:08:42.010 --> 00:08:44.470 rights to be obtained. I mean, they don't make people 210 00:08:44.470 --> 00:08:48.750 like his energy. I mean, he had this fantastic energy 211 00:08:48.750 --> 00:08:51.650 level, very intense person. So if he wanted something 212 00:08:51.650 --> 00:08:56.710 done, he would stay on that forever. He wouldn't give 213 00:08:56.710 --> 00:08:57.970 up. No, they don't make people like him. 214 00:08:57.970 --> 00:08:59.310 Did you know his, Tom's father? 215 00:08:59.790 --> 00:09:01.330 No, no. His father's very interesting. 216 00:09:01.330 --> 00:09:04.570 Oh, he was a marvelous man. We lived with his father. 217 00:09:04.770 --> 00:09:07.050 The first few years we were married, we lived in his 218 00:09:07.050 --> 00:09:09.110 house and everything. And I thought he was the most 219 00:09:09.110 --> 00:09:13.930 extraordinary man I'd ever met. And so Tom comes from a 220 00:09:13.930 --> 00:09:16.830 family that's sort of, they're all interesting people, 221 00:09:16.830 --> 00:09:20.470 I think. I adore Tom's family. I still see them all now. 222 00:09:20.930 --> 00:09:21.750 Your sister Margaret. 223 00:09:22.850 --> 00:09:24.250 Yeah, Margaret's his sister. 224 00:09:24.930 --> 00:09:24.930 225 00:09:24.990 --> 00:09:28.170 But her father-in-law was Secretary of the Interior, 226 00:09:28.470 --> 00:09:31.450 Andrew Wilson. So he was the very, and the law firm, 227 00:09:31.710 --> 00:09:33.630 which is now Bell Boyd Marshall Lloyd. 228 00:09:33.770 --> 00:09:35.190 It used to be Fisher Bell Boyd. 229 00:09:35.290 --> 00:09:39.830 That was Tom's father, and that was the prominent law 230 00:09:40.350 --> 00:09:45.150 firm in Chicago. Now Tom didn't stay with that firm. 231 00:09:45.150 --> 00:09:46.930 He was with them only for a very few years. 232 00:09:47.290 --> 00:09:49.250 Well, he didn't want to stay with that firm because he 233 00:09:49.250 --> 00:09:51.550 wanted to take what cases he wanted to take. And if 234 00:09:51.550 --> 00:09:54.530 you're in a big firm, you specialize in something. 235 00:09:54.770 --> 00:09:56.990 He had Cravath in New York, always wanted to come to 236 00:09:56.990 --> 00:09:59.750 New York. Everybody wanted him. But he wanted to 237 00:09:59.750 --> 00:10:01.430 practice a long story. He could do what he wanted. 238 00:10:01.550 --> 00:10:04.050 See, nobody would have let him take that King Ranch 239 00:10:04.050 --> 00:10:09.170 case. That was impossible to win. And so that's why he 240 00:10:09.170 --> 00:10:13.650 left. And I think he was right. And that's why he 241 00:10:13.650 --> 00:10:16.170 stayed in Chicago, was because he couldn't do what 242 00:10:16.170 --> 00:10:17.930 he wanted. In New York, he'd have had to go into a 243 00:10:17.930 --> 00:10:20.530 big firm. But here he could practice all by himself. 244 00:10:20.650 --> 00:10:22.130 Not many lawyers do that, do they? 245 00:10:22.150 --> 00:10:26.030 No, very seldom. His, that is an intelligent family. 246 00:10:26.070 --> 00:10:29.430 His brother, who stayed at Bell Boyd, now his son, 247 00:10:29.610 --> 00:10:32.250 his nephew, Roger Fisher, who was a very famous 248 00:10:32.250 --> 00:10:37.050 professor at Harvard and Harvard Law School. His big 249 00:10:37.050 --> 00:10:40.890 area of law is dispute negotiation. He's got this 250 00:10:40.890 --> 00:10:41.570 book, Getting to Yes. 251 00:10:41.570 --> 00:10:42.630 Getting to Yes. 252 00:10:42.630 --> 00:10:44.870 And he's a very persuasive man. As a matter of fact, 253 00:10:44.930 --> 00:10:47.550 he settled a big case in which I was involved. It 254 00:10:47.550 --> 00:10:48.770 could not be settled in Roger. 255 00:10:48.770 --> 00:10:49.530 The auto-like case. 256 00:10:49.690 --> 00:10:52.170 No, no, no. This is a different case. And Roger 257 00:10:52.170 --> 00:10:53.870 settled it. I thought it would never be settled. 258 00:10:54.070 --> 00:10:57.930 He's, in many ways like Tom, he would never stop 259 00:10:57.930 --> 00:11:00.810 talking. You know, you could say, Roger, forget about 260 00:11:00.810 --> 00:11:03.430 it. I'm not doing this. And he would never, isn't 261 00:11:03.430 --> 00:11:03.830 that right? 262 00:11:04.170 --> 00:11:06.530 Yes, I guess. I like Roger very much. 263 00:11:06.590 --> 00:11:08.030 He had a, Ruth had him for dinner here one night. 264 00:11:08.030 --> 00:11:12.710 He's a very intelligent person. He served with, I 265 00:11:12.710 --> 00:11:15.210 think it was General Marshall after the Second World 266 00:11:15.210 --> 00:11:20.010 War. He went over to, on the Marshall Plan. So the 267 00:11:20.010 --> 00:11:22.510 Fisher family is a very intelligent family. But I 268 00:11:22.510 --> 00:11:24.230 think Ruth's family is equally interesting. 269 00:11:24.750 --> 00:11:26.850 Now, did you tell, I bet you know, you probably 270 00:11:26.850 --> 00:11:29.170 forgot, you see, we bought Thea, Thea, we bought 271 00:11:29.170 --> 00:11:32.770 Ruth a special cemetery lot in Indianapolis. 272 00:11:32.950 --> 00:11:34.410 That's one thing I don't know. 273 00:11:35.010 --> 00:11:38.010 See, Ruth didn't know about that. But I figured, you 274 00:11:38.710 --> 00:11:41.270 could upon her death, return to her forebearers 275 00:11:41.270 --> 00:11:42.370 because she's a very famous daughter. 276 00:11:42.370 --> 00:11:43.210 Oh, you scattered my ashes. 277 00:11:43.770 --> 00:11:45.750 Yeah, she would like to do that. But she's a very 278 00:11:45.750 --> 00:11:48.850 famous daughter of Indianapolis. So we have a 279 00:11:48.850 --> 00:11:51.810 booth. Now, I don't remember, it's near a famous 280 00:11:51.810 --> 00:11:52.250 grave. 281 00:11:52.610 --> 00:11:53.610 James Whitcombe Riley. 282 00:11:54.310 --> 00:11:56.730 I don't know if it's near, who else, Ruth, would 283 00:11:56.730 --> 00:11:58.230 it be near? Well, we'll have to look it up. 284 00:11:58.410 --> 00:11:59.930 Benjamin Harrison. He was from Indianapolis. 285 00:11:59.950 --> 00:12:01.650 No, it wasn't Benjamin Harrison. It's somebody 286 00:12:01.650 --> 00:12:04.070 else, I think. But anyway, we have her a nice little 287 00:12:04.070 --> 00:12:10.090 hill. Now, I know Ruth would like to be her ashes 288 00:12:10.090 --> 00:12:13.170 scattered. But for example, did you tell Thea about 289 00:12:13.170 --> 00:12:16.550 the party you had for Tom when he died? Because this 290 00:12:16.550 --> 00:12:17.130 was an interesting... 291 00:12:17.130 --> 00:12:18.410 I was going to ask about that. 292 00:12:18.490 --> 00:12:19.030 The party? 293 00:12:19.370 --> 00:12:21.050 Don't you remember you had a cocktail party? 294 00:12:21.190 --> 00:12:22.210 After Tom died. 295 00:12:22.250 --> 00:12:25.830 Oh, yes. I thought that he liked that better than 296 00:12:25.830 --> 00:12:29.290 just everybody sitting around being sad. I'm sure 297 00:12:29.290 --> 00:12:32.290 he would have preferred that party like that. I 298 00:12:32.290 --> 00:12:33.510 think that was a good idea, don't you? 299 00:12:33.510 --> 00:12:35.290 Yeah, so your brother was there. 300 00:12:35.630 --> 00:12:37.970 It was Carol Fox, actually. I think it says in a 301 00:12:37.970 --> 00:12:39.650 book someplace, Carol Fox called you and said, 302 00:12:39.710 --> 00:12:40.890 Ruth, you have to do something. 303 00:12:42.190 --> 00:12:43.890 Yes, it was Carol, yeah. 304 00:12:43.890 --> 00:12:45.530 And you said, all right, I'll give a party. 305 00:12:47.210 --> 00:12:48.810 And I thought it was probably Carol Fox. 306 00:12:49.210 --> 00:12:52.570 And a lot of people came. And it was not sad. It 307 00:12:52.570 --> 00:12:53.830 was festive occasion. 308 00:12:54.010 --> 00:12:57.130 Yes. We talked about Tom and everything. 309 00:12:57.890 --> 00:12:59.550 You wrote that it made you feel better, too. 310 00:13:01.610 --> 00:13:04.010 Well, I thought that was an interesting approach 311 00:13:04.010 --> 00:13:07.470 to death, as against the Jewish religion where 312 00:13:07.470 --> 00:13:09.990 you're required to be morose, not only morose, 313 00:13:09.990 --> 00:13:13.310 but for seven days. And then for 11 months. 314 00:13:13.730 --> 00:13:14.750 I didn't know that. 315 00:13:14.750 --> 00:13:15.190 Oh, yeah. 316 00:13:15.830 --> 00:13:16.710 I didn't know that. 317 00:13:16.950 --> 00:13:20.450 Yes, yes. And Orthodox Jew, really, it's 11 318 00:13:20.450 --> 00:13:22.870 months. It's a long time. And then there's a 319 00:13:22.870 --> 00:13:25.210 seven-day official period of mourning. And then 320 00:13:25.210 --> 00:13:27.390 there's a 30-day period where you're not supposed 321 00:13:27.390 --> 00:13:29.530 to do anything that's remotely enjoyable, like 322 00:13:29.530 --> 00:13:31.850 watch television or go to the movies. It's really 323 00:13:31.850 --> 00:13:32.570 very, you know. 324 00:13:32.570 --> 00:13:35.230 Well, I was a widow for 14 years, wasn't I? I 325 00:13:35.230 --> 00:13:38.110 think it was 14 years. So I know what it is to be 326 00:13:38.110 --> 00:13:42.130 a widow or I'm not a very merry one, either. 327 00:13:42.250 --> 00:13:44.550 No, but you kept yourself busy. I think that's 328 00:13:45.770 --> 00:13:48.750 Ruth's secret to you is the fact that she's never 329 00:13:49.330 --> 00:13:51.490 unoccupied. The fact that, is that right, Ruth? 330 00:13:51.490 --> 00:13:52.830 You're always doing something. 331 00:13:53.050 --> 00:13:54.770 Well, I always have something under the project 332 00:13:54.770 --> 00:13:58.110 up my sleeve, yes. I like to be busy. And I like 333 00:13:58.110 --> 00:14:00.730 to have projects and I like to be interested in 334 00:14:00.730 --> 00:14:03.930 things. I don't like to, I do like to sit home and 335 00:14:03.930 --> 00:14:05.710 read once in a while. I don't get much chance to 336 00:14:05.710 --> 00:14:09.570 do that. I love to do that. But I like to have 337 00:14:09.570 --> 00:14:13.530 things going. I love my school. I'm very interested 338 00:14:13.530 --> 00:14:16.390 in that. And I'm interested in all the scholarships 339 00:14:16.390 --> 00:14:19.130 we give over there and all the children that go 340 00:14:19.130 --> 00:14:21.130 there. I find them absolutely fascinating. 341 00:14:22.410 --> 00:14:24.690 You've got about five projects going right now. 342 00:14:24.870 --> 00:14:25.450 What are they? 343 00:14:25.450 --> 00:14:27.430 Well, you've got the ballets that are happening. 344 00:14:27.710 --> 00:14:29.510 If you count all the ballets. There's the Merry 345 00:14:29.510 --> 00:14:30.510 Widows. Oh, yes. 346 00:14:31.330 --> 00:14:36.990 And the Alice film. And the school. And what were 347 00:14:36.990 --> 00:14:38.930 you talking about reviving the other day? 348 00:14:39.030 --> 00:14:41.290 Oh, Flater Mouser. We're going to do that. We're 349 00:14:41.290 --> 00:14:44.530 reviving that for Tulsa. And maybe, I hope we'll 350 00:14:44.530 --> 00:14:45.630 get to do it on television. 351 00:14:45.710 --> 00:14:47.450 Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. Lynn was 352 00:14:47.450 --> 00:14:48.270 asking me about that. 353 00:14:48.450 --> 00:14:52.490 Well, it's going on in the fall in Tulsa. 354 00:14:52.490 --> 00:14:55.050 Where can we televise it? Why can we televise it 355 00:14:55.050 --> 00:14:55.250 there? 356 00:14:55.890 --> 00:14:57.310 I wish we could. I think it would be a very good 357 00:14:57.310 --> 00:14:59.470 idea. It's a ballet sort of like the Merry Widow. 358 00:14:59.530 --> 00:15:01.630 I think it's just as good, only it isn't as famous 359 00:15:01.630 --> 00:15:04.470 as the Merry Widow. But the music is lovely and the 360 00:15:04.470 --> 00:15:06.990 costumes, Delpho's costumes are marvelous. That's 361 00:15:06.990 --> 00:15:08.490 the first ballet we ever did together. 362 00:15:09.390 --> 00:15:11.910 Do they have a television station in Tulsa? 363 00:15:12.190 --> 00:15:13.730 Sure they do. A public television station? 364 00:15:14.030 --> 00:15:14.270 Yeah. 365 00:15:14.330 --> 00:15:16.610 Yeah, sure they do. Maybe they'd be interested 366 00:15:16.610 --> 00:15:17.010 in it. 367 00:15:17.510 --> 00:15:21.490 I think why it is important for Ruth to have a 368 00:15:22.950 --> 00:15:25.850 strong husband or lawyer is that she's a very 369 00:15:25.850 --> 00:15:30.190 self-effacing person. Ruth is not good at pushing 370 00:15:30.190 --> 00:15:30.790 herself. 371 00:15:31.710 --> 00:15:35.070 Neither is Delpho, my husband. He's impossible. 372 00:15:35.130 --> 00:15:36.210 He's worse than I am. 373 00:15:36.330 --> 00:15:39.350 Ruth is very self-effacing and long-suffering, so 374 00:15:39.350 --> 00:15:42.450 she needs a protector. I don't approve of that. I 375 00:15:42.450 --> 00:15:46.930 don't approve of somebody who needs a protector. 376 00:15:47.210 --> 00:15:47.690 Why? 377 00:15:47.990 --> 00:15:49.710 Well, because I think... 378 00:15:49.710 --> 00:15:50.750 You should stand up for yourself. 379 00:15:50.750 --> 00:15:51.590 No. 380 00:15:51.810 --> 00:15:54.330 I'll try to reform. I'm going to stand up for 381 00:15:54.330 --> 00:15:55.530 myself about that picture. 382 00:15:56.190 --> 00:15:56.630 Okay. 383 00:15:56.630 --> 00:15:58.490 If you don't do something about that, I'll get 384 00:15:58.490 --> 00:15:59.170 another lawyer. 385 00:15:59.230 --> 00:16:02.710 We'll do that soon. But Ruth is a very modest 386 00:16:02.710 --> 00:16:03.310 person. 387 00:16:04.610 --> 00:16:06.050 Yes, that's true. You are. 388 00:16:06.250 --> 00:16:07.390 Don't you think so? 389 00:16:08.230 --> 00:16:10.170 I never thought about it. Maybe. I don't know. 390 00:16:10.210 --> 00:16:13.070 I think Ruth... Well, we went through this whole 391 00:16:13.070 --> 00:16:15.730 thing with the Chicago Ballet. 392 00:16:16.130 --> 00:16:17.750 Yes. Can we talk about that? I thought that was 393 00:16:17.750 --> 00:16:19.510 one of the things we could talk about is the whole 394 00:16:19.510 --> 00:16:21.590 Chicago Ballet, because you must have been involved in that. 395 00:16:21.630 --> 00:16:25.170 Oh, I was very much involved in that. And I thought 396 00:16:25.170 --> 00:16:31.690 Ruth was long-suffering and very patient. Stanley 397 00:16:31.690 --> 00:16:35.250 Freeland came to us, and he really promoted this 398 00:16:35.250 --> 00:16:39.530 idea of a Chicago Ballet. And Stanley is a very 399 00:16:39.530 --> 00:16:46.170 philanthropic person. But what was surprising to 400 00:16:46.170 --> 00:16:50.610 me was the social part of Chicago in putting together 401 00:16:50.610 --> 00:16:53.890 a charity that although they were very social, 402 00:16:53.890 --> 00:16:57.410 they really weren't very sincere in doing anything 403 00:16:57.410 --> 00:16:58.530 or raising money. 404 00:16:59.110 --> 00:17:00.970 So Ruth took the leadership role and really 405 00:17:00.970 --> 00:17:01.990 challenged the city. 406 00:17:02.330 --> 00:17:05.970 Yes, but what happened was that we put up all the 407 00:17:05.970 --> 00:17:08.830 money and nobody else ever did. And then Geraldine 408 00:17:08.830 --> 00:17:13.870 came along and she was very insistent upon having 409 00:17:13.870 --> 00:17:16.690 the limelight, pushing Ruth to the back. 410 00:17:17.650 --> 00:17:20.070 We really gave it up on it because we wanted to get 411 00:17:20.070 --> 00:17:20.890 rid of Geraldine. 412 00:17:22.430 --> 00:17:26.750 It was all Ruth's idea, really. It was all Ruth's 413 00:17:26.750 --> 00:17:29.550 money. It was Ruth's school and Ruth's building. 414 00:17:30.530 --> 00:17:32.930 And what she was really trying to do was... 415 00:17:32.930 --> 00:17:35.370 Take over the whole thing. I fortunately didn't let 416 00:17:35.370 --> 00:17:37.870 her take any part of the school. She had nothing to 417 00:17:37.870 --> 00:17:40.910 do with the school. I just said no. But everybody 418 00:17:40.910 --> 00:17:43.210 said about Geraldine that if you let her do it all 419 00:17:43.210 --> 00:17:46.530 by herself, she'd be marvelous. But it's not true. 420 00:17:46.910 --> 00:17:49.470 I like Geraldine. She's got a lot of good qualities. 421 00:17:50.290 --> 00:17:52.350 But she wasn't good for me at all. 422 00:17:52.710 --> 00:17:54.090 Well, what would have been the purpose of letting 423 00:17:54.090 --> 00:17:56.470 her take over and do it, Ruth? I mean, it was your 424 00:17:57.790 --> 00:17:58.950 school and your... 425 00:17:58.950 --> 00:18:02.010 Oh, my school was entirely separate from the ballet. 426 00:18:03.810 --> 00:18:08.550 And she had strange ideas about what ballets you 427 00:18:08.550 --> 00:18:10.850 should do and this and that. For instance, she 428 00:18:10.850 --> 00:18:12.990 didn't even want me to do the Mary Widow, which is 429 00:18:12.990 --> 00:18:16.250 my most popular ballet. Well, that's a funny idea. 430 00:18:16.430 --> 00:18:18.990 She didn't want us to film Frank and Johnny with 431 00:18:19.970 --> 00:18:22.490 Shannon Levin than Mr. Carter did. She didn't let 432 00:18:22.490 --> 00:18:25.510 us use the fact that this was a Chicago ballet 433 00:18:25.510 --> 00:18:29.010 company. She thought it was a risque ballet. 434 00:18:29.130 --> 00:18:30.550 Yeah, she thought it was naughty. 435 00:18:30.570 --> 00:18:32.910 And therefore it would be bad for the company. 436 00:18:33.550 --> 00:18:34.070 Incredible. 437 00:18:36.270 --> 00:18:41.430 It was an eye-opening event to me, A, as to how 438 00:18:41.430 --> 00:18:43.690 difficult it really is to run a public charity, 439 00:18:44.030 --> 00:18:48.030 and B, how much Ruth was willing to sacrifice of 440 00:18:48.030 --> 00:18:49.950 herself to do something good for the city. 441 00:18:50.770 --> 00:18:53.270 Yeah, I was reading last night, as a matter of 442 00:18:53.270 --> 00:18:55.970 fact, the little speech that you gave when you 443 00:18:55.970 --> 00:18:58.430 founded the thing and somebody said something 444 00:18:58.430 --> 00:19:00.750 about it. Somebody called on you and you got up 445 00:19:00.750 --> 00:19:05.510 and stood up on a chair and made a speech at a 446 00:19:05.510 --> 00:19:07.110 party that had been put together with fundraising 447 00:19:07.110 --> 00:19:08.990 that had been put together by Stan Freeland to 448 00:19:08.990 --> 00:19:10.110 bring together all the people. 449 00:19:10.110 --> 00:19:12.510 And what it was is you said, I want to bring 450 00:19:12.510 --> 00:19:15.790 good ballet to Chicago. This is a challenge. 451 00:19:15.850 --> 00:19:19.470 I'm willing to give you $250,000 a year for three 452 00:19:19.470 --> 00:19:21.810 years. I'm going to get it started. Now come on, 453 00:19:21.910 --> 00:19:24.310 Chicago. You can do it. Here's the start. 454 00:19:25.050 --> 00:19:26.550 Imagine. They didn't even come close. 455 00:19:26.910 --> 00:19:27.830 They didn't even drop. 456 00:19:28.410 --> 00:19:29.190 Oh, goody.