WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.900 --> 00:00:05.980 It's a big thing. 2 00:00:06.540 --> 00:00:09.640 This is the third major basketball scandal in 30 years. 3 00:00:09.980 --> 00:00:11.000 Are you defending? 4 00:00:12.180 --> 00:00:12.760 I don't know. 5 00:00:13.020 --> 00:00:15.800 I'm sure this person who's going to come see me is very innocent. 6 00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:18.340 He has the wildest cases. 7 00:00:18.580 --> 00:00:20.980 And they're always billion dollar cases. 8 00:00:21.100 --> 00:00:22.120 Is this one a billion dollar case? 9 00:00:22.120 --> 00:00:24.300 No, it's just a little slumpy guy fixing a basketball. 10 00:00:24.300 --> 00:00:26.920 Oh, I didn't know you took any cases like that. 11 00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:29.000 I don't think you really. 12 00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:31.580 He likes billion dollar cases. 13 00:00:32.440 --> 00:00:33.400 I know him. 14 00:00:33.820 --> 00:00:34.420 Here we go. 15 00:00:35.140 --> 00:00:35.440 Stillbars. 16 00:00:35.880 --> 00:00:36.300 Stillbars. 17 00:00:36.860 --> 00:00:37.980 I love the stillbars. 18 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:38.740 Stillbars. 19 00:00:40.180 --> 00:00:42.560 That's the best part of any film is the stillbars. 20 00:00:42.760 --> 00:00:43.740 What are the stillbars? 21 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:45.180 That's the blue and the... 22 00:00:45.180 --> 00:00:45.700 We're rolling. 23 00:00:46.680 --> 00:00:49.740 It's the color that comes on before the film action. 24 00:00:50.380 --> 00:00:52.220 It's a test pattern that you can set. 25 00:00:52.220 --> 00:00:53.800 That's the part you can yawn at. 26 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:56.380 Then you say, oh, there I am. 27 00:00:56.380 --> 00:00:57.960 I have a question. 28 00:00:58.200 --> 00:00:58.460 Yes. 29 00:00:58.940 --> 00:01:04.080 And I know that Ruth can't quite answer it because a lot of the things that have to do with Tom's legal affairs, 30 00:01:04.140 --> 00:01:08.600 in particular the King Ranch case, are complicated. 31 00:01:08.820 --> 00:01:14.380 And besides, Ruth was busy launching new ballets, taking her company on tour, 32 00:01:14.580 --> 00:01:17.140 doing things at the opera while all of this was going on. 33 00:01:17.300 --> 00:01:21.080 But at the end, when the King Ranch case was over, 34 00:01:21.140 --> 00:01:25.200 there was a second phase in which Tom was sued again 35 00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:28.600 that required that he couldn't come back to Chicago. 36 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:31.060 That was the content of court, wasn't it? 37 00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:35.200 That was because Tom... 38 00:01:35.960 --> 00:01:37.540 I told Ruth this several times. 39 00:01:37.620 --> 00:01:40.260 It's because he was a bad client. 40 00:01:40.800 --> 00:01:47.220 And he chose a lawyer who would listen to the way Tom wanted to handle this matter. 41 00:01:47.320 --> 00:01:53.300 Now, if Tom weren't stubborn, this little contra-temp would have never occurred. 42 00:01:53.300 --> 00:01:58.500 And it hurt him because he was ordered by the court to turn over his records. 43 00:01:59.500 --> 00:02:03.560 And there was nothing in the records which should have precluded him from turning over the records. 44 00:02:03.620 --> 00:02:06.560 But because they said they wanted the records, he didn't want to give them the records. 45 00:02:07.080 --> 00:02:08.460 So he was ordered to give the records. 46 00:02:08.500 --> 00:02:09.520 He didn't turn over the records. 47 00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:11.300 He was then held in contempt to court. 48 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:16.080 And therefore, for a while, he lived at the Harvard Club in New York, he would call me from there, 49 00:02:16.380 --> 00:02:19.320 the Holiday Inn in Hammond, Indiana. 50 00:02:19.600 --> 00:02:19.880 Right. 51 00:02:19.880 --> 00:02:23.100 And finally, when he got sick, he came back to Northwestern Hospital. 52 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:27.140 Everybody, the continental bank, knew where he was. 53 00:02:27.880 --> 00:02:35.900 But they didn't care because this was a ruse that they had pursued to hurt Tom's case. 54 00:02:36.440 --> 00:02:39.580 So it was just his obstinacy, his stubbornness. 55 00:02:40.020 --> 00:02:43.900 And had he had a strong lawyer advising him, he would have said, 56 00:02:43.920 --> 00:02:47.800 Hey, Tom, give them the records and quit fooling around and let's get down to the merits. 57 00:02:48.180 --> 00:02:48.980 But they were awful. 58 00:02:48.980 --> 00:02:53.120 So there was one point where they put hospital guards outside his door when he was in the hospital? 59 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:53.460 Oh, yes. 60 00:02:53.640 --> 00:02:55.940 But this was, you know, there was a lot of money at stake. 61 00:02:56.080 --> 00:03:05.580 And he gave away in the settlement because he was dying a lot more money than he should have if he weren't dying. 62 00:03:05.900 --> 00:03:11.680 But it was the money he wanted the estate cleaned up for Ruth so she would not have the aggravation. 63 00:03:12.200 --> 00:03:16.440 But all that was about was that was what I would call vintage Tom Fisher. 64 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:17.780 He enjoyed the fight. 65 00:03:17.780 --> 00:03:18.760 Yeah, he loved that. 66 00:03:18.760 --> 00:03:21.740 It was not the principle as much as the fight. 67 00:03:22.300 --> 00:03:24.880 You know, the fight was there so he would go get it. 68 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:25.960 69 00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:28.320 Oh, go ahead. 70 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:35.240 But, you know, so after Tom died, then, you know, I'm very friendly with the lawyer who represents Helen Pannell. 71 00:03:35.320 --> 00:03:36.140 And that was the woman. 72 00:03:36.580 --> 00:03:38.940 And this is all sorts of sordid story. 73 00:03:39.540 --> 00:03:44.980 This old, the heir of the King Range picked up this sort of unattractive woman and she ended up with all this money. 74 00:03:46.500 --> 00:03:52.860 But, you know, he admitted that this was all a strategy to beat Tom into the ground to get a more favorable settlement. 75 00:03:52.920 --> 00:03:57.020 So we gave back part of his 30 years of work. 76 00:03:57.680 --> 00:03:59.060 I mean, this was like a substantial part. 77 00:03:59.340 --> 00:04:00.560 I was reading about the settlement. 78 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:01.280 It was a lot. 79 00:04:01.420 --> 00:04:03.640 Yes, but it was it did bother me and Ruth. 80 00:04:03.820 --> 00:04:04.880 We didn't write Ruth. 81 00:04:05.540 --> 00:04:06.360 Our life went on. 82 00:04:06.480 --> 00:04:14.960 We had enough to keep us in the house and home, four homes or five homes or however we had expensive lawyers, dancers, clothes, husbands. 83 00:04:16.540 --> 00:04:17.020 Jewelry. 84 00:04:17.100 --> 00:04:18.780 I never had any jewelry now. 85 00:04:19.060 --> 00:04:21.420 Never had a piece of jewelry in my life. 86 00:04:22.660 --> 00:04:25.360 Not expensive jewelry, but whatever she wears, she wears with a flare. 87 00:04:25.760 --> 00:04:27.920 Ruth has a great sense of the drama. 88 00:04:28.340 --> 00:04:34.340 Now, Ruth could have been a fashion model or designer because she puts together all these outfits. 89 00:04:34.840 --> 00:04:36.960 They're always all actress. 90 00:04:37.760 --> 00:04:39.100 Well, she is a perfect actress. 91 00:04:41.020 --> 00:04:42.860 Well, I didn't know all that. 92 00:04:42.860 --> 00:04:44.100 But you know, that's true. 93 00:04:44.100 --> 00:04:53.100 I mean, to be a ballet star and to be a choreographer, you have to be an actress and you have to be a scriptwriter, a storyteller. 94 00:04:54.080 --> 00:04:55.100 You saw all of those things. 95 00:04:56.760 --> 00:04:58.080 And what else, Ruth? 96 00:04:59.420 --> 00:05:03.040 Well, you have to be stupid to want to do those things. 97 00:05:03.080 --> 00:05:04.160 That's all I can say. 98 00:05:04.540 --> 00:05:05.260 Or ambitious. 99 00:05:06.700 --> 00:05:08.580 No, it's I don't know. 100 00:05:08.580 --> 00:05:10.200 I think I'm like Tom in that respect. 101 00:05:10.200 --> 00:05:11.600 I'm stubborn, you know. 102 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:16.460 And if I set myself to trying to do something, I try to do it. 103 00:05:16.460 --> 00:05:17.480 I really want to do it. 104 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:19.680 And so you have to be very stubborn. 105 00:05:20.940 --> 00:05:23.800 And I don't think that dancing is a good profession at all. 106 00:05:23.860 --> 00:05:28.020 I would never advise anybody to be a dancer or a choreographer. 107 00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:34.900 That's even much harder because it's first of all, it's not lucrative and you're not appreciated. 108 00:05:35.540 --> 00:05:41.120 And it's a small career, you know, one of the few people like you and some like you and some don't. 109 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:42.500 I suppose that's true of everything. 110 00:05:43.320 --> 00:05:47.700 But if I had my life to live over again, I wouldn't have anything to do with dance. 111 00:05:48.400 --> 00:05:49.140 What would you do? 112 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:50.560 I'd be a lawyer. 113 00:05:52.640 --> 00:05:54.720 You wouldn't do anything socially redeeming then. 114 00:05:54.740 --> 00:05:55.560 That wouldn't be good. 115 00:05:56.540 --> 00:05:57.700 I don't know what I'd do. 116 00:05:57.820 --> 00:06:00.820 I'd sit at home and read and have a few friends. 117 00:06:00.840 --> 00:06:02.680 I don't have time for friends or reading. 118 00:06:02.700 --> 00:06:03.560 I love to read. 119 00:06:04.200 --> 00:06:05.560 But you have a world of friends. 120 00:06:05.660 --> 00:06:07.060 I mean, Ruth knows everyone. 121 00:06:07.340 --> 00:06:08.180 You're never home. 122 00:06:08.320 --> 00:06:08.920 That's the truth. 123 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:09.660 You always say you're... 124 00:06:09.660 --> 00:06:10.720 I know you have many. 125 00:06:10.960 --> 00:06:12.280 That's right. I don't like people. 126 00:06:12.500 --> 00:06:14.600 I know you don't. I love people. 127 00:06:14.780 --> 00:06:17.540 I like my friends, but I'd like to have more time for them, you know. 128 00:06:18.220 --> 00:06:20.220 Ruth goes out every night. She likes to go to movies. 129 00:06:20.940 --> 00:06:22.860 Andre thinks I haven't got any friends at all. 130 00:06:23.220 --> 00:06:29.220 But Ruth could be a good politician because she's very good in meeting people and putting them at ease. 131 00:06:29.280 --> 00:06:31.560 I'd be a lousy politician. I hate politics. 132 00:06:31.740 --> 00:06:32.880 Yeah, but you do that very well. 133 00:06:32.900 --> 00:06:36.760 If you meet somebody at a party, you would immediately ask them what they do. 134 00:06:37.880 --> 00:06:40.680 I'm just polite. My mother brought me up to be polite. 135 00:06:40.760 --> 00:06:45.720 Yeah, but you're very good at it because you make them believe they're the most important person in the world, 136 00:06:45.760 --> 00:06:47.380 and you're really interested in what they're doing. 137 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:52.860 Now, it may be that you don't do that to the next person, but I think you are interested in people. 138 00:06:53.180 --> 00:06:54.420 I am. I like people. 139 00:06:54.920 --> 00:06:56.720 Andre doesn't. I don't think he does. 140 00:06:56.720 --> 00:06:57.720 No, he doesn't like people. 141 00:06:57.720 --> 00:06:58.420 I like people. 142 00:06:59.080 --> 00:07:00.140 So I think Ruth is... 143 00:07:00.140 --> 00:07:02.340 He says I surround myself with all the wrong people. 144 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:05.940 Well, I think you do. I think Ruth is very trusting. 145 00:07:07.140 --> 00:07:12.760 And really, considering her breadth of travel, too trusting, 146 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:20.240 Ruth doesn't have enough skepticism about her fellow person. 147 00:07:20.520 --> 00:07:22.080 Tom used to say that about her. 148 00:07:22.080 --> 00:07:23.320 Well, I think that's very true. 149 00:07:23.320 --> 00:07:23.660 And to you. 150 00:07:24.220 --> 00:07:25.960 How would I know that? I read it. 151 00:07:26.020 --> 00:07:28.180 That Tom wouldn't say that to you, that you were too trusting. 152 00:07:28.820 --> 00:07:29.760 You don't think you're too trusting? 153 00:07:29.840 --> 00:07:33.360 Yes, I do. I always believe what people say, you see. 154 00:07:33.760 --> 00:07:36.020 If somebody tells me something, I believe them. 155 00:07:36.020 --> 00:07:40.940 Because I say what I think, and I think everybody else does, too. 156 00:07:40.940 --> 00:07:42.600 But that's not true. I know that. 157 00:07:43.280 --> 00:07:45.080 Do you think you're too forgiving, too? 158 00:07:45.140 --> 00:07:45.620 Yes. 159 00:07:45.760 --> 00:07:46.880 Oh, she's very forgiving. 160 00:07:46.960 --> 00:07:48.880 She should be Jesus Christ to herself. 161 00:07:49.100 --> 00:07:52.780 I mean, that's as modern because I don't understand that. 162 00:07:53.020 --> 00:07:58.820 Ruth is... somebody can do the most awful thing to her, and Ruth will just shrug her shoulders. 163 00:07:58.860 --> 00:08:02.700 So I say that's a terrific security system that allows you to do that, 164 00:08:02.860 --> 00:08:05.340 because Ruth is very forgiving. 165 00:08:05.340 --> 00:08:09.340 I mean, I could do the worst thing to Ruth, imaginable. 166 00:08:10.380 --> 00:08:14.660 I don't know, imagine the worst thing I could do, and the next day she would forget about it. 167 00:08:15.060 --> 00:08:18.420 And she would forgive. And she would even remonstrate. 168 00:08:19.020 --> 00:08:20.940 Well, Tom, of course, never forgot. 169 00:08:21.060 --> 00:08:21.620 Oh, no. 170 00:08:22.400 --> 00:08:23.200 Never forgot. 171 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:26.080 But do you think that that's a failing in your respect? 172 00:08:26.080 --> 00:08:26.560 Yes. 173 00:08:26.840 --> 00:08:27.440 Too forgiving? 174 00:08:27.580 --> 00:08:28.040 Yeah. 175 00:08:28.760 --> 00:08:32.860 Well, see, that's why maybe Tom was a smart and picky lawyer, because I'm identical. 176 00:08:32.860 --> 00:08:37.260 I mean, if you would slight me, if Thea would insult me today, I would remember that 30 years from now. 177 00:08:37.260 --> 00:08:37.540 You would? 178 00:08:37.540 --> 00:08:42.760 And I would say to her, remember, Thea, March 29th, at 3 o'clock you insulted me? 179 00:08:43.160 --> 00:08:44.180 Thea would remember that. 180 00:08:44.820 --> 00:08:45.480 That's true. 181 00:08:46.140 --> 00:08:47.020 He is like that. 182 00:08:47.100 --> 00:08:48.640 Well, lawyers do remember. 183 00:08:48.800 --> 00:08:49.820 People have done things. 184 00:08:49.920 --> 00:08:54.260 I mean, Carol Fox gave you so many problems with the Lyric Opera Ballet. 185 00:08:54.620 --> 00:08:57.500 So many problems and so many problems, and she just made it awful, 186 00:08:57.540 --> 00:09:01.060 and she would make promises and break them and refuse to pay the dancers. 187 00:09:01.060 --> 00:09:05.780 And then finally you said, I'm not going to do this anymore. 188 00:09:06.760 --> 00:09:15.200 And so the first year that the opera ballet stopped, guess who was rehearsing the dancers they brought in from Pittsburgh? 189 00:09:15.800 --> 00:09:16.400 I don't know. 190 00:09:16.680 --> 00:09:17.040 You. 191 00:09:18.340 --> 00:09:18.780 Who? 192 00:09:19.020 --> 00:09:19.560 You were. 193 00:09:19.680 --> 00:09:23.080 You went right in and helped Carol Fox even after everything she'd done to you. 194 00:09:23.340 --> 00:09:23.780 Pittsburgh? 195 00:09:23.860 --> 00:09:24.780 What were they doing for Carol Fox? 196 00:09:24.880 --> 00:09:29.700 They just brought in a few dancers from Pittsburgh to do a little bit of dancing in the ballet. 197 00:09:29.700 --> 00:09:33.380 Well, Carol Fox, I understood her perfectly because she hated dancing. 198 00:09:33.680 --> 00:09:36.920 She had absolutely no interest in it, and I can understand that. 199 00:09:37.140 --> 00:09:39.240 She didn't want to run a ballet company. 200 00:09:39.280 --> 00:09:40.820 She wanted to run an opera company. 201 00:09:41.060 --> 00:09:45.500 And that's perfectly understandable because very few opera people like ballet and vice versa. 202 00:09:45.940 --> 00:09:48.940 Most ballet dancers have no use for the opera whatsoever. 203 00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:49.880 I don't know what the difference is. 204 00:09:49.880 --> 00:09:51.260 I love the opera. 205 00:09:51.760 --> 00:09:52.040 I know. 206 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:53.200 I adore opera. 207 00:09:54.180 --> 00:09:55.820 But so I understood Carol very well. 208 00:09:55.860 --> 00:09:57.940 An artist critic is a marvelous person. 209 00:09:57.940 --> 00:09:59.380 She's always been a great friend of mine. 210 00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:00.440 I love artists. 211 00:10:00.760 --> 00:10:04.720 I remember, Ruth, after Tom died, we had dinner at your apartment. 212 00:10:04.900 --> 00:10:09.680 Carol Fox said, you go to Europe, get me the dancers, put it all together, and then come back, 213 00:10:09.680 --> 00:10:11.640 and we'll have a ballet company at the opera. 214 00:10:11.760 --> 00:10:12.620 You went off to Europe. 215 00:10:12.780 --> 00:10:13.520 You set it all up. 216 00:10:13.520 --> 00:10:14.400 And she came back. 217 00:10:14.400 --> 00:10:16.180 And she said, oh, no, I'm not going to do that. 218 00:10:16.520 --> 00:10:17.660 I didn't remember that. 219 00:10:17.720 --> 00:10:19.780 Well, I remember that like yesterday. 220 00:10:20.060 --> 00:10:20.540 Isn't that funny? 221 00:10:20.540 --> 00:10:21.540 I don't remember that at all. 222 00:10:21.560 --> 00:10:21.960 Yes. 223 00:10:22.060 --> 00:10:23.560 A lot of time, a lot of expenses. 224 00:10:23.560 --> 00:10:29.340 After that, that Ruth then, right after that happened, went and helped them rehearse the 225 00:10:29.340 --> 00:10:32.640 few dancers that they brought in to do little bits of dancing in whatever the opera needed. 226 00:10:32.640 --> 00:10:33.560 That's all the opera needs. 227 00:10:34.280 --> 00:10:34.720 They just need a bit. 228 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:36.700 And Ruth went right in and rehearsed. 229 00:10:36.740 --> 00:10:38.200 Of course, I wouldn't consider that a failing. 230 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:42.660 I think that's a great strength to be so forgiving in the fact that there's a lot of you. 231 00:10:42.660 --> 00:10:50.660 Well, you see, actually, I was never permitted by Chicago to do anything in Chicago except 232 00:10:50.660 --> 00:10:51.360 the Nutcracker. 233 00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:54.420 And the Nutcracker is so marvelous, it'll go on forever. 234 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:56.100 I'll be remembered by the Nutcracker. 235 00:10:56.480 --> 00:10:59.040 If I say so myself, it's a perfect Nutcracker. 236 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:02.580 And it's so good that that's enough. 237 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:06.080 I've done my share for Chicago, I think. 238 00:11:07.220 --> 00:11:08.340 So to hell with Chicago. 239 00:11:09.140 --> 00:11:10.580 Yeah, but you don't think that. 240 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:11.700 You don't believe that. 241 00:11:11.740 --> 00:11:14.140 And you don't even practice that because you live here. 242 00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:15.200 And you like it here. 243 00:11:15.340 --> 00:11:17.400 Well, I live here because I love this apartment. 244 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:18.440 I love you. 245 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:20.160 And I like a few other people here. 246 00:11:20.160 --> 00:11:21.340 I like Larry Long. 247 00:11:21.900 --> 00:11:22.880 And I like my school. 248 00:11:23.060 --> 00:11:24.380 I have a marvelous school. 249 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:25.980 And I love my dancers over there. 250 00:11:25.980 --> 00:11:27.720 I love all the kids in the school I love. 251 00:11:27.900 --> 00:11:29.760 There are a lot of things I like about Chicago. 252 00:11:31.620 --> 00:11:34.640 And if I didn't have this pretty apartment, I probably would leave. 253 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:35.340 But I don't know. 254 00:11:35.640 --> 00:11:37.200 I always wanted to live in New York. 255 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:41.380 But I finally gave up that idea when I found out Tom never really was going to move there. 256 00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:43.740 I always wanted to live in New York. 257 00:11:43.740 --> 00:11:44.900 I think it's a marvelous city. 258 00:11:45.060 --> 00:11:46.120 I like Paris, too. 259 00:11:46.560 --> 00:11:48.400 But I'm getting used to Chicago now. 260 00:11:48.400 --> 00:11:49.440 I like it well enough here. 261 00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:52.700 You see, her lawyers have always prevented her from fleeing. 262 00:11:52.900 --> 00:11:57.500 Because after Tom died, she and Delpho found this perfect place outside of Monte Carlo. 263 00:11:57.600 --> 00:11:58.020 Oh, yeah. 264 00:11:58.020 --> 00:12:00.800 They wanted to buy a beautiful house, and she called me. 265 00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:02.800 And I said no, because then I would lose Ruth. 266 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:04.920 So Tom and I went to... 267 00:12:04.920 --> 00:12:05.960 We should have bought it, you know. 268 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:06.760 See, I told you that. 269 00:12:06.760 --> 00:12:07.680 Yeah, we really should have. 270 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:07.900 It was a great idea. 271 00:12:07.900 --> 00:12:09.020 Then I would never see you. 272 00:12:09.060 --> 00:12:09.780 That's true. 273 00:12:10.100 --> 00:12:11.280 I would have been a European. 274 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:12.720 Why did you say no? 275 00:12:12.880 --> 00:12:15.260 Well, because Ruth would live in Monte Carlo. 276 00:12:15.420 --> 00:12:17.660 And we wouldn't do that to me or Chicago. 277 00:12:17.800 --> 00:12:18.800 I would lose Ruth. 278 00:12:18.800 --> 00:12:20.480 She already had a house in Saint Tropez. 279 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:21.400 I mean, she could have had a house... 280 00:12:21.400 --> 00:12:24.560 Oh, but Saint Tropez, she only went for two months. 281 00:12:25.140 --> 00:12:26.120 And then only a month. 282 00:12:26.220 --> 00:12:27.160 So she always came back. 283 00:12:27.220 --> 00:12:29.300 I don't mind Ruth leaving if she comes back. 284 00:12:29.320 --> 00:12:31.920 But if she goes to Monte Carlo, she would stay there forever. 285 00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:33.480 Darling, I'll always come back. 286 00:12:33.580 --> 00:12:33.980 Okay. 287 00:12:34.900 --> 00:12:36.320 That's what they all say, Ruth. 288 00:12:36.380 --> 00:12:37.180 But I know better. 289 00:12:38.020 --> 00:12:38.960 I know better. 290 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:43.100 I'm very faithful. 291 00:12:43.420 --> 00:12:44.820 True to you, darling, in my fashion. 292 00:12:44.940 --> 00:12:45.620 That's right. 293 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:46.680 So that was good. 294 00:12:46.680 --> 00:12:48.840 That's how Ruth got trapped in Chicago. 295 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:53.520 We let her go to New York and to Europe just so she returns. 296 00:12:54.500 --> 00:12:57.120 Does he really run your life or do you just let him think so? 297 00:12:57.260 --> 00:12:58.560 No, he does. 298 00:12:58.740 --> 00:13:00.660 I wouldn't do anything without asking, Jerry. 299 00:13:00.680 --> 00:13:01.500 I really wouldn't. 300 00:13:01.640 --> 00:13:02.260 No, it's true. 301 00:13:02.280 --> 00:13:04.220 She doesn't know what money she has. 302 00:13:04.260 --> 00:13:06.000 She doesn't know what she can spend. 303 00:13:06.300 --> 00:13:07.980 She does call and say, may I do this? 304 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:08.640 Can I do that? 305 00:13:08.680 --> 00:13:09.440 Can I afford this? 306 00:13:09.620 --> 00:13:10.240 Should I do this? 307 00:13:10.280 --> 00:13:10.900 Should I do that? 308 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:12.360 She's a perfect client. 309 00:13:13.300 --> 00:13:14.540 How about that? 310 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:15.960 Perfect client. 311 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:19.460 Can she buy a new Betamax if she wants to? 312 00:13:19.540 --> 00:13:19.940 Yes. 313 00:13:20.160 --> 00:13:21.520 If she would like to do that, she can. 314 00:13:21.520 --> 00:13:22.020 Buy what? 315 00:13:22.220 --> 00:13:25.160 You wanted to get another, we were talking about getting another cassette machine. 316 00:13:25.260 --> 00:13:27.480 You were saying you might like to have a video cassette machine. 317 00:13:27.700 --> 00:13:30.360 And then you said, oh, but they're terribly expensive, I think. 318 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:31.120 Oh, I'm sorry. 319 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:37.680 Yeah, but I think that's symptomatic of any of we older people don't like to spend money frivolously. 320 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:41.360 So you younger people can do that, but we older people can't. 321 00:13:42.200 --> 00:13:43.940 We remember hard times. 322 00:13:44.920 --> 00:13:45.580 Right, Ruth? 323 00:13:45.580 --> 00:13:49.760 I think Ruth has always known how to spend money frivolously. 324 00:13:49.920 --> 00:13:56.300 No, I tell you, if you read my early letters, it's fantastic how much they talk about money and how little I have. 325 00:13:56.740 --> 00:14:01.760 A little I had, I know in Indianapolis, we lived sort of outside of Indianapolis, 326 00:14:02.140 --> 00:14:04.880 and if you took an interurban to go there, it cost a quarter. 327 00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:08.860 And if you took the street car and walked half the way, it cost 10 cents. 328 00:14:08.900 --> 00:14:10.940 And I used to save that 15 cents. 329 00:14:10.940 --> 00:14:13.520 I'd walk all that way and save that 15 cents. 330 00:14:13.520 --> 00:14:15.080 I never had any money at all. 331 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:19.800 People make me so mad when they say, oh, Margaret Class had to meet the other day. 332 00:14:20.020 --> 00:14:21.160 Well, of course you were married. 333 00:14:21.180 --> 00:14:22.760 You've always had so much money. 334 00:14:23.140 --> 00:14:27.880 I said, listen, I never had any money until Tom made some money later. 335 00:14:28.140 --> 00:14:31.660 I made good money myself, but not real money. 336 00:14:32.900 --> 00:14:33.860 So I thought... 337 00:14:33.860 --> 00:14:34.380 It's true. 338 00:14:34.400 --> 00:14:36.580 For most of your marriage, you made more money than Tom. 339 00:14:36.980 --> 00:14:38.980 Yes, I did. 340 00:14:38.980 --> 00:14:39.660 Uh-huh. 341 00:14:40.280 --> 00:14:45.900 But I don't know, this thing about money, I've always been very careful with money. 342 00:14:46.400 --> 00:14:47.320 And she still is. 343 00:14:47.640 --> 00:14:48.100 Am I? 344 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:48.580 Yes. 345 00:14:48.760 --> 00:14:50.500 By and large, you're careful with money. 346 00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:51.620 That's good, isn't it? 347 00:14:51.800 --> 00:14:55.980 On the other hand, if she sees a dress, she'll buy it. 348 00:14:56.980 --> 00:14:58.180 Mommy buys from one place, then. 349 00:14:58.280 --> 00:14:59.900 I don't spend much money on clothes. 350 00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:02.520 Where did your wife get her clothes? She has those pretty clothes. 351 00:15:02.540 --> 00:15:03.200 All over. 352 00:15:03.260 --> 00:15:03.680 Does she? 353 00:15:03.740 --> 00:15:05.900 Yes, she's an equal opportunity shopper. 354 00:15:06.060 --> 00:15:07.820 Well, she has wonderful clothes, I think. 355 00:15:08.640 --> 00:15:09.360 Marvellous clothes. 356 00:15:09.660 --> 00:15:11.760 Yes, it was one time they showed up with the same coat. 357 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:12.680 That was hilarious. 358 00:15:15.800 --> 00:15:17.000 I remember that. 359 00:15:17.280 --> 00:15:18.360 Yeah, that was funny. 360 00:15:18.540 --> 00:15:19.180 Black cloak. 361 00:15:20.680 --> 00:15:26.360 They have a good deal of ambiance, I would say. 362 00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:27.840 Similarity in ambiance. 363 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:33.440 There's a picture, I think, the first time I looked at this, I think she looks a little like Dolores. 364 00:15:33.460 --> 00:15:34.600 No, no, no. 365 00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:37.120 Ruth doesn't really look like Dolores, but doesn't that look like that? 366 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:39.160 Could have been a picture of Dolores long ago in her shirt. 367 00:15:39.620 --> 00:15:40.160 No, no. 368 00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:41.340 All right, I'm wrong. 369 00:15:41.400 --> 00:15:41.960 You're wrong. 370 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:42.400 I'm wrong. 371 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:45.120 I've never looked anything like Dolores this much prettier than I am. 372 00:15:45.780 --> 00:15:46.400 Oh, Ruth. 373 00:15:46.540 --> 00:15:48.240 Oh, she is, don't you think so? 374 00:15:48.460 --> 00:15:50.060 Oh, I can't answer that question either. 375 00:15:51.780 --> 00:15:54.500 I'm crazy about Dolores. I think she's a marvellous person. 376 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:55.460 I do, too. 377 00:15:55.620 --> 00:16:01.780 But Ruth, really, you are and always have been a really great and exciting beauty. 378 00:16:03.060 --> 00:16:03.540 Beauty? 379 00:16:03.540 --> 00:16:04.460 Oh, I think so. 380 00:16:04.460 --> 00:16:11.500 I think particularly those pictures in that book when you were on the boat coming back. 381 00:16:11.520 --> 00:16:12.380 I like those pictures. 382 00:16:12.460 --> 00:16:18.960 I like that story that conjures up in my mind of everybody evening dressed, eating on the boat. 383 00:16:19.060 --> 00:16:21.680 Oh, people used to dress when you went to Europe on boats. 384 00:16:21.820 --> 00:16:22.620 They dressed every night. 385 00:16:22.620 --> 00:16:23.520 It was awfully nice. 386 00:16:23.580 --> 00:16:27.740 Now you get there so fast you don't have time to eat and put on your leotards. 387 00:16:27.860 --> 00:16:30.200 But that must have been a very fashionable existence, Ruth. 388 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:31.200 It was, yes. 389 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:34.620 I was with Kreuzberg and Wilkinson. 390 00:16:35.520 --> 00:16:36.920 And it looked romantic, too. 391 00:16:37.340 --> 00:16:39.940 But these dancers, were they all homosexual? 392 00:16:40.160 --> 00:16:46.140 Did any of these dancers ever express romantic interest to you of the opposite gender? 393 00:16:46.880 --> 00:16:49.460 I don't think so, no. I don't think so. 394 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:51.460 They're mostly homosexuals, I guess. 395 00:16:51.520 --> 00:16:54.660 I never went into their sex life very much, but I guess they were. 396 00:16:55.260 --> 00:16:59.260 Tell me, Ruth, now we're near the end of the tape so we can fiddle around a little. 397 00:16:59.260 --> 00:17:06.300 Why is it necessary that all ballet persons, women, be flat chested? 398 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:07.440 Be flat chested? 399 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:07.740 Yes. 400 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:08.380 I'm not. 401 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:10.040 I know, but other than you. 402 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:13.520 Well, it's easier to dance if you haven't got a big bosom flopping around. 403 00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:16.380 Is it? But I mean, they are all shaped the wrong way. 404 00:17:16.380 --> 00:17:18.820 Well, you have to be thin to be a dancer. 405 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:22.420 And it's much easier to dance if you're thin. 406 00:17:24.860 --> 00:17:27.320 He's right, though. They are flat chested. 407 00:17:27.540 --> 00:17:28.560 Yeah, I know. 408 00:17:28.560 --> 00:17:29.560 And something about the body. 409 00:17:29.800 --> 00:17:33.060 And I think other than Ruth, up close they're very unattractive. 410 00:17:33.260 --> 00:17:34.780 The women are very unattractive. 411 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:35.380 You do? 412 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:36.440 Yes. 413 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:37.420 I don't know. 414 00:17:37.460 --> 00:17:41.600 Other than Ruth, I would never fall in love with ballerina. Never. 415 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:44.360 Maybe Margot Fontaine. She's pretty. 416 00:17:44.360 --> 00:17:46.360 Oh, Margot Fontaine is gorgeous. 417 00:17:46.380 --> 00:17:47.440 Not compared to you. 418 00:17:47.760 --> 00:17:50.720 Oh, she's beautiful. I got a letter from her yesterday. 419 00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:54.700 She wants me to come down to Panama to visit her, but I don't think I'll go. Shall I go? 420 00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:55.880 Panama's very interesting. 421 00:17:55.880 --> 00:18:00.200 I think you'd really like it. It's a nice place. You ought to go. 422 00:18:00.360 --> 00:18:01.460 I've been there, of course. 423 00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:03.020 Andrie would like it. I like it. 424 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:04.900 She's living down there now. 425 00:18:05.560 --> 00:18:06.920 Okay, are we done, Miss Thea? 426 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:07.640 Yes, we are. 427 00:18:07.800 --> 00:18:08.020 Okay. 428 00:18:08.140 --> 00:18:09.680 She's been waiting and watching. Okay. 429 00:18:09.780 --> 00:18:10.440 All right. 430 00:18:10.540 --> 00:18:11.120 This is good. 431 00:18:11.120 --> 00:18:12.760 We can turn off all these bright lights. It's so hot in here right now. 432 00:18:12.760 --> 00:18:13.320 I know. 433 00:18:13.420 --> 00:18:14.900 I didn't think it was so terrible. 434 00:18:19.040 --> 00:18:22.960 Okay, presence track. In the, what room is this? 435 00:18:23.340 --> 00:18:23.780 Ballerina. 436 00:18:24.020 --> 00:18:25.020 Okay, quiet. 437 00:18:25.020 --> 00:18:25.160 Okay. 438 00:19:01.580 --> 00:19:02.980 Okay. 439 00:19:02.980 --> 00:19:02.980 440 00:19:02.980 --> 00:19:02.980 441 00:19:02.980 --> 00:19:02.980 442 00:19:02.980 --> 00:19:02.980 443 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:04.560 Okay. 444 00:19:04.560 --> 00:19:05.080 Okay. 445 00:19:05.080 --> 00:19:05.080 446 00:19:05.080 --> 00:19:05.080 447 00:19:06.020 --> 00:19:07.420 Okay. 448 00:19:19.220 --> 00:19:20.620 Okay. 449 00:19:20.620 --> 00:19:20.620 450 00:19:20.620 --> 00:19:20.640 Okay. 451 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.640 452 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.640 453 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.640 454 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.640 455 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.640 456 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.640 457 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.640 458 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.640 459 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.640 460 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.640 461 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.640 462 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.640 463 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.640 464 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.640 465 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.640 466 00:19:21.220 --> 00:19:22.620 Okay. 467 00:19:22.620 --> 00:19:25.560 And presence.