WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.100 --> 00:00:07.700 I'm sorry, I'm not good at this. 2 00:00:07.700 --> 00:00:07.700 3 00:00:07.960 --> 00:00:08.220 I'm sorry, I'm not good at this. 4 00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:09.820 I'm sorry, I'm not good at this. 5 00:00:12.300 --> 00:00:12.900 I'm sorry, I'm not good at this. 6 00:00:12.900 --> 00:00:17.100 I'm sorry, I'm not good at this. 7 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:17.100 8 00:00:22.900 --> 00:00:23.660 I'm sorry, I'm not good at this. 9 00:00:26.240 --> 00:00:27.640 I'm sorry, I'm not good at this. 10 00:00:27.640 --> 00:00:28.620 I'm sorry, I'm not good at this. 11 00:00:28.620 --> 00:00:32.100 I'm sorry, I'm not good at this. 12 00:00:32.100 --> 00:00:32.100 13 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:40.700 I'm sorry, I'm not good at this. 14 00:00:41.800 --> 00:00:43.200 I'm sorry, I'm not good at this. 15 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:46.400 I'm sorry, I'm not good at this. 16 00:01:11.780 --> 00:01:13.940 I'm sorry, I'm not good at this. 17 00:01:14.300 --> 00:01:15.520 I'm sorry, I'm not good at this. 18 00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:19.360 It was somewhere in the 60s. 19 00:01:19.460 --> 00:01:23.820 She was in Italy. 20 00:01:24.540 --> 00:01:30.560 I was performing with the Miassin Ballet, the ballerope De Nervi. 21 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:34.520 And she and Al Barzel came to see the performance. 22 00:01:35.060 --> 00:01:41.540 Actually I only maybe shook hands and very little knew her then. 23 00:01:41.540 --> 00:01:53.820 And really I remet her or got friendly with her in 1969. 24 00:01:55.980 --> 00:02:01.040 I read an announcement in the dance magazine that she is selling costumes. 25 00:02:01.700 --> 00:02:08.020 And as I just founded the Pittsburgh Ballet Theater, I was looking to get costumes 26 00:02:08.020 --> 00:02:12.820 and thought it would be good to invite her to make a choreography. 27 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:18.440 So I called her up and very pleasant voice, 28 00:02:18.480 --> 00:02:24.280 yes, yes, come over and see, I will show you ballets and the costumes and pictures and all this. 29 00:02:24.900 --> 00:02:28.860 So I decided, first I talked to Mrs. Falks, 30 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:32.400 who was then the president of the board, 31 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:38.460 and I said I would like to go to Chicago and to visit Ms. Page 32 00:02:38.460 --> 00:02:44.120 and see what she has to sell and what could we buy and all that. 33 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:50.360 So I flew in, it was snowy, cold weather. 34 00:02:51.260 --> 00:02:56.560 The lake was frozen and she had her apartment looking on the lake. 35 00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:02.320 Actually I arrived and she greeted me like she knew me forever. 36 00:03:02.320 --> 00:03:08.780 And I really planned to stay there for an evening or maybe next day. 37 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:10.880 And finally I stayed there three days. 38 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:20.640 Well, height proceeded. I came in and we talked and then spoke about common acquaintances and all that. 39 00:03:21.060 --> 00:03:26.700 And finally she said, well, do you want to see the ballets, what I could offer you and the costumes and all that? 40 00:03:26.980 --> 00:03:29.780 I said, sure, I'm interested in that. 41 00:03:29.780 --> 00:03:33.880 And she started to show the ballets. 42 00:03:34.380 --> 00:03:40.760 Well, for probably non-interrupted time, 43 00:03:41.140 --> 00:03:45.680 just so much to change the wheels on the film and all that. 44 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:49.820 And we were watching for at least three hours. 45 00:03:50.220 --> 00:03:54.780 That was the first acquaintance. We saw the Flatermouse, 46 00:03:55.060 --> 00:03:57.180 we saw the Carman, 47 00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:07.100 Merivido, many, many, I probably don't remember in what order it was, 48 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:11.140 but many films one after other. 49 00:04:11.760 --> 00:04:14.480 And finally she said, well, what one you like? 50 00:04:15.040 --> 00:04:21.840 Well, I liked lots of them, but I guess my first impression was 51 00:04:21.840 --> 00:04:26.040 I was most impressed with Carman. 52 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:29.660 Probably because I knew the subject and all that. 53 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:37.120 So I said, well, this would be a perfect ballet for us. It's a new company, young dancers and all that. 54 00:04:37.440 --> 00:04:41.940 But I said I don't have good soloists. 55 00:04:43.820 --> 00:04:48.940 So Ruth says, well, I have my soloists who was working with me, 56 00:04:48.940 --> 00:04:52.440 but they are now all over, but possibly I could get them. 57 00:04:53.400 --> 00:04:57.220 And I guess Petych Lekowicz, who I didn't know yet the name, 58 00:04:58.840 --> 00:05:03.320 probably this girl with high extension, I sort of like her, 59 00:05:03.460 --> 00:05:06.560 I said, do you think we could have her? 60 00:05:07.380 --> 00:05:13.460 So no problem, if you call her over, she's in town or something like that, 61 00:05:13.460 --> 00:05:15.320 I will call her immediately. 62 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:21.120 So basically we looked at many, many films, 63 00:05:21.740 --> 00:05:26.540 but this first choice stayed the choice. 64 00:05:26.620 --> 00:05:32.400 I took a copy of the film and I took like three or four films with me to Pittsburgh 65 00:05:32.400 --> 00:05:36.460 to show to Mrs. Falk and to the board 66 00:05:36.460 --> 00:05:43.180 that these are the films, these are the ballets that I would like to produce here in Pittsburgh. 67 00:05:43.660 --> 00:05:49.160 In that time it was in this office, this was the first Pisa Ballet Theater office. 68 00:05:50.460 --> 00:05:55.120 I think the tables were differently set, but this was the first office. 69 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:03.520 And basically I came back and proposed the ballet. 70 00:06:04.180 --> 00:06:06.440 It was fantastic, I guess, with the ballet. 71 00:06:06.440 --> 00:06:11.160 And I really enjoyed the route, her approach of being very friendly, 72 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:15.920 darling here, darling there, and I was sort of really feeling at home. 73 00:06:16.780 --> 00:06:20.640 I had the honor to sleep in the bed of her husband, 74 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:26.640 who I didn't know, but she said that this is the guest room now and all that. 75 00:06:27.760 --> 00:06:33.720 And she had a Spanish cook, I think, or maid or what's ever, 76 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:39.040 and they served us sort of candlelight dinner. 77 00:06:40.660 --> 00:06:43.380 And the same menu was the breakfast and all that. 78 00:06:43.400 --> 00:06:44.860 And I was really very impressed. 79 00:06:45.280 --> 00:06:52.980 And beside all the ballet talk, we also talked about the designers 80 00:06:53.860 --> 00:07:00.160 and lots of paintings of known dance designers. 81 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:05.940 And all that made that fantastic feeling 82 00:07:05.940 --> 00:07:09.980 of the nest of dance, 83 00:07:10.520 --> 00:07:12.900 which I naturally didn't have here yet in Pittsburgh. 84 00:07:14.400 --> 00:07:22.240 I just arrived and I was looking how to arrive to create here 85 00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:29.120 some dance, conditional dance, professional dance, 86 00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:32.100 that's what I would say, because at that time I was just brought here 87 00:07:32.760 --> 00:07:35.980 for the Playhouse to head the Playhouse school, 88 00:07:36.340 --> 00:07:40.840 but actually very soon closed and I was almost out on the door. 89 00:07:41.760 --> 00:07:49.460 And then somehow it was arranged that Mark Lewis, who brought me in, 90 00:07:49.660 --> 00:07:54.260 got in touch with the Point Park College and proposed the program 91 00:07:54.260 --> 00:07:58.220 who was in the Playhouse to move to the college, 92 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:04.860 which was already existing, the drama department had the cooperation with the Playhouse. 93 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:07.880 So Mark Lewis said, well, why not also the dance? 94 00:08:08.660 --> 00:08:13.260 There is lots of following and so we brought it here. 95 00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:21.580 And at that time was the president, Arthur Blum, who actually was very interested in dance. 96 00:08:21.580 --> 00:08:26.440 I only later got to know that. 97 00:08:26.840 --> 00:08:31.520 And he said yes. And one other word, yes, 98 00:08:31.760 --> 00:08:36.600 it brought us to create a dance department. 99 00:08:36.740 --> 00:08:40.640 And after the dance department I was involved with the Pittsburgh Opera. 100 00:08:41.740 --> 00:08:47.460 And the Pittsburgh Opera was my first professional work here in Pittsburgh. 101 00:08:47.460 --> 00:08:56.040 And then Arthur Blum said, well, how about if you do a ballet company? 102 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:57.600 Well, I said that's my idea. 103 00:08:58.060 --> 00:09:03.140 And he adjunct me to the American Wind Symphony, 104 00:09:03.500 --> 00:09:05.480 who was headed by Robert Boudreau. 105 00:09:06.580 --> 00:09:12.340 But as he had problems to raise money and all that, he says, well, you find your, 106 00:09:12.340 --> 00:09:14.420 you create your board. 107 00:09:15.820 --> 00:09:21.840 And when you have your board, then you will be able to make easier 108 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:27.340 and more wide spread of ballets and all that. 109 00:09:28.900 --> 00:09:34.160 And that's what I did. I went out to look for board members. 110 00:09:34.760 --> 00:09:38.980 And Lottie Folk was the person who I knew from the Playhouse, who was on the Playhouse board. 111 00:09:38.980 --> 00:09:45.540 And I invited her and after investigating the proposal, 112 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:50.560 she decided to accept to come on the board. 113 00:09:51.860 --> 00:09:56.100 What made you decide to go to Ruth Page 114 00:09:56.100 --> 00:10:02.000 to be a choreographer for, it was really your first season, right? 115 00:10:02.700 --> 00:10:04.640 That was my first season, yes. 116 00:10:05.680 --> 00:10:08.640 Well, actually, there was not yet season. 117 00:10:08.740 --> 00:10:15.080 It was our first entry. And what I did, I said to raise money in Pittsburgh, 118 00:10:15.740 --> 00:10:24.080 certainly with the care of the school or with the non-professional approach, 119 00:10:24.920 --> 00:10:27.340 would be no different than what was done before. 120 00:10:27.820 --> 00:10:29.640 So I said I have to do something different, 121 00:10:29.800 --> 00:10:34.760 even if it is only an example for one performance. 122 00:10:35.940 --> 00:10:41.880 And that one performance or one series of performances will be the example 123 00:10:41.880 --> 00:10:48.240 or the way to say, 124 00:10:48.400 --> 00:10:52.960 well, people, this is what we could do and we could do better with your help. 125 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:55.900 What happened when, so the, 126 00:10:55.900 --> 00:10:58.820 Laurie, do you want to get some water, please? 127 00:11:00.660 --> 00:11:02.620 Yes, please. 128 00:11:03.980 --> 00:11:08.920 Oh, you look great. 129 00:11:10.180 --> 00:11:10.480 Okay. 130 00:11:15.460 --> 00:11:20.120 So you presented Carmen for the first appearance of the Pittsburgh Ballet? 131 00:11:20.820 --> 00:11:24.080 Yes, Carmen was the first ballet 132 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:30.380 that we presented for the first performance 133 00:11:30.380 --> 00:11:31.440 of the Pittsburgh Ballet Theater. 134 00:11:32.280 --> 00:11:35.560 Actually, the Pittsburgh Ballet Theater was in the process of forming. 135 00:11:35.860 --> 00:11:45.540 It was the process to try to impress certain people who really never would come to dance, 136 00:11:45.540 --> 00:11:49.820 but through the help of Mrs. Falk and her friends and all that, 137 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:52.880 we really filled up the audience. 138 00:11:53.040 --> 00:11:55.040 The playhouse was our first home. 139 00:11:55.680 --> 00:11:59.000 And I also brought in lots of dancers, 140 00:11:59.920 --> 00:12:03.380 like that was actually to presenting the leading dancers, 141 00:12:03.380 --> 00:12:06.520 Patricia Klekovic and Kenneth Johnson. 142 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:13.040 I brought also on the same performance, Edward Villela and Violette Verde. 143 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:16.160 And then was 144 00:12:18.060 --> 00:12:23.740 Joyce Cuoco, who was sort of represented like a wunderkind 145 00:12:23.740 --> 00:12:26.340 with Bill Martin Weikand. 146 00:12:26.340 --> 00:12:33.680 And then Stefan Grebel with Melanie Grebel was invited. 147 00:12:37.220 --> 00:12:39.340 And I think that was 148 00:12:41.300 --> 00:12:43.040 six or seven couples. 149 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:45.260 What did the critics say about Carmen? 150 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:54.700 They liked it. They liked everything because it was surprising for Pittsburgh that we could produce something like that. 151 00:12:54.700 --> 00:12:57.940 And also we had, first time, 152 00:12:58.880 --> 00:13:00.040 gathered orchestra. 153 00:13:01.740 --> 00:13:07.100 I think maybe 10 or 15 musicians we had with Michael Semenitsky, 154 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:12.000 who conducted the Pittsburgh Youth Symphony. 155 00:13:12.860 --> 00:13:18.320 And he was invited to conduct the symphony. So it was sort of strange for the playhouse, 156 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:21.500 because it is what is really a drama theater and don't have a very big pit. 157 00:13:22.180 --> 00:13:29.440 If they were doing comedy music, it might be with six musicians to eight, 158 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:33.100 might be maximum. If you had like 15, 16 musicians, 159 00:13:33.500 --> 00:13:36.720 it was almost a large chamber orchestra. 160 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:40.160 So that was also something new and something different. 161 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:46.480 Then after that you did other ballets of Ruth Pages. 162 00:13:47.040 --> 00:13:49.560 Yes, we did. That was the first. 163 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:54.740 And then we really started to open the first season. 164 00:13:55.700 --> 00:13:59.320 I think the first season was the 1969-70. 165 00:14:01.580 --> 00:14:03.300 And Carmen was on the first season. 166 00:14:03.300 --> 00:14:08.180 Then later we did, actually what happens, 167 00:14:09.520 --> 00:14:13.000 after this first season we created a budget. 168 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:18.760 It is something that we need to create before we engage somebody. 169 00:14:20.220 --> 00:14:24.680 And I proposed to Kenneth Johnson, Patricia Klekovich, 170 00:14:25.380 --> 00:14:28.400 and I think Oran Cain, who was the first. 171 00:14:28.400 --> 00:14:32.280 Oran was also with us for that performance. 172 00:14:36.160 --> 00:14:39.840 And I proposed them to join the company. 173 00:14:40.300 --> 00:14:46.520 I said, well, you will dance and also some will teach in the school. 174 00:14:46.640 --> 00:14:52.160 So they were really guest teachers and guest dancers. 175 00:14:53.140 --> 00:14:57.200 And from there we were planning what to do next. 176 00:14:58.540 --> 00:15:03.920 Next year, I think, or I would be not so sure now what year it was, 177 00:15:04.540 --> 00:15:12.760 we did Ruth Romeo and Juliet of Tchaikovsky's music, the short one, 178 00:15:13.280 --> 00:15:18.800 and Bolero, where Oran was the leading role. 179 00:15:18.820 --> 00:15:23.200 Actually, what I need you to do is just go through very quickly 180 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:26.900 the list of ballets, page ballets that you did. 181 00:15:27.880 --> 00:15:37.280 We did Concertina, we did Carmina Cattulli, Alice in Wonderland. 182 00:15:39.940 --> 00:15:46.260 I don't remember, I think it was for Joyce Cuoco meant to do, 183 00:15:46.260 --> 00:15:48.260 I think, the first performance. 184 00:15:48.260 --> 00:15:50.300 Actually, we filmed it also. 185 00:15:51.020 --> 00:15:58.000 And then we did, we repeated also Carmen, then we did 186 00:16:00.580 --> 00:16:01.940 Mary Widow. 187 00:16:03.040 --> 00:16:08.960 Mary Widow, then, did I say all? 188 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:12.980 So all in all you did about how many Ruth Page ballets? 189 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:13.820 At least ten. 190 00:16:14.180 --> 00:16:16.120 Could you say, we did at least ten? 191 00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:16.860 At least ten. 192 00:16:16.860 --> 00:16:22.200 We did at least ten ballets of Ruth Page, if not more, 193 00:16:22.580 --> 00:16:29.680 because we did also parts of different ballets and pas de deuxs, 194 00:16:30.180 --> 00:16:36.620 and Carmina Burana, we did first pas de deuxs and parts, 195 00:16:36.640 --> 00:16:40.100 and then after we did the whole production. 196 00:16:41.260 --> 00:16:41.620 Why? 197 00:16:41.620 --> 00:16:48.480 Well, number one, Pittsburgh, I liked her way of choreography 198 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:52.780 because I was influenced, I'm a student of choreography 199 00:16:52.780 --> 00:16:53.620 of Lenny Dmyasin. 200 00:16:55.980 --> 00:17:02.580 And I somehow saw some similarity in Ruth's approach, 201 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:04.620 some modern influence. 202 00:17:06.080 --> 00:17:10.420 In that time, I guess, after Dmyasin, Ruth was the most 203 00:17:10.420 --> 00:17:14.020 similar with the classical technique, with the modern 204 00:17:15.420 --> 00:17:16.520 approach of movements. 205 00:17:18.840 --> 00:17:24.620 And I felt sort of at home with her movements and her 206 00:17:24.620 --> 00:17:29.960 approach and her view on the dance. 207 00:17:30.860 --> 00:17:37.240 And also her personality was very dear to me, and we got 208 00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:45.120 very friendly, and that I guess also has bearing on all 209 00:17:45.120 --> 00:17:50.540 the cooperation, because I also invited her for teaching, 210 00:17:50.820 --> 00:17:55.640 guest teaching, guest lecturer, and many activities. 211 00:17:55.980 --> 00:18:01.500 So we did that cooperation as Ruth, really after closing 212 00:18:01.500 --> 00:18:06.020 her company, she didn't immediately want to be, I think I 213 00:18:06.020 --> 00:18:11.040 proposed her to come to Pittsburgh more permanent, but 214 00:18:11.040 --> 00:18:14.000 she didn't want to leave Chicago. 215 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:20.840 She's really so tied to Chicago that she really didn't want 216 00:18:20.840 --> 00:18:21.260 to leave. 217 00:18:21.760 --> 00:18:30.340 But we did as much possible works as a guest choreographer 218 00:18:30.340 --> 00:18:31.880 and guest collaborator. 219 00:18:31.880 --> 00:18:36.880 Can you describe a little bit some experiences that you had 220 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:40.860 with Ruth here in Pittsburgh, working as a guest 221 00:18:40.860 --> 00:18:43.120 choreographer and collaborator? 222 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:50.080 Well, she came in and brought her films, and some she staged 223 00:18:50.080 --> 00:18:59.900 and some she was held by Kenneth Johnson, who knew and 224 00:18:59.900 --> 00:19:03.000 he was sort of helping her. 225 00:19:03.300 --> 00:19:09.800 And I think all the dancers and Patricia and Oren also helped 226 00:19:09.800 --> 00:19:11.740 towards it somewhat. 227 00:19:13.280 --> 00:19:18.840 And so she was also here and correcting it and adding to it. 228 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:25.320 Carmen, I think she was here to choreograph the whole thing.