WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.180
I'm sorry.

2
00:00:04.900 --> 00:00:06.000
Where is the mistake?

3
00:00:13.340 --> 00:00:15.200
Yeah, that was a very frustrating experience.

4
00:00:15.280 --> 00:00:18.180
What was actually happening was, I think, you know, Mitchell really wanted her to do

5
00:00:18.180 --> 00:00:21.480
it, but there wasn't really the time and they were distracted all the time.

6
00:00:21.480 --> 00:00:25.680
Yeah, but they shouldn't have brought us there to do it.

7
00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:28.000
They thought that they were going to have time and they didn't.

8
00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:28.900
And it was so frustrating.

9
00:00:29.740 --> 00:00:29.740


10
00:00:30.220 --> 00:00:33.380
I mean, I think you were there a month, or she was there a month, and I think you rehearsed

11
00:00:33.380 --> 00:00:34.800
with the company in like maybe four days.

12
00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:36.900
Yeah, I think if we were lucky.

13
00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:37.400
Yeah.

14
00:00:40.680 --> 00:00:41.400
Twenty seconds.

15
00:00:41.680 --> 00:00:42.340
Oh, yeah, yeah.

16
00:00:45.020 --> 00:00:46.120
Twenty-five seconds.

17
00:00:58.120 --> 00:00:59.180
This is good.

18
00:00:59.280 --> 00:00:59.780
You're wonderful.

19
00:00:59.960 --> 00:01:00.380
Thank you, ma'am.

20
00:01:00.400 --> 00:01:01.300
You are terrific.

21
00:01:02.400 --> 00:01:02.540
Okay.

22
00:01:04.060 --> 00:01:05.080
The House in Spoleto.

23
00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:06.380
The House in Spoleto.

24
00:01:07.460 --> 00:01:14.420
As I told you, it was built in the form of a medieval tower, and I had five keys that

25
00:01:14.420 --> 00:01:16.240
were about this big, those big old keys.

26
00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:20.260
I think the thing must have been built in around the late 1500s or something, and it

27
00:01:20.260 --> 00:01:23.260
was some man of exquisite taste owned this place.

28
00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:25.700
Beautiful pieces in it.

29
00:01:25.700 --> 00:01:30.480
And each time we wanted to go from one room to another room, we had to go outside, lock

30
00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:34.860
that door, go up a flight of stairs, unlock that door, and then we'd be in that room.

31
00:01:35.440 --> 00:01:42.120
And I think on the bottom level was this fantastic kitchen that had none of the conveniences of

32
00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:43.720
anything I've ever seen in my life.

33
00:01:43.740 --> 00:01:47.680
It had a pump handle for water, and there was a burner.

34
00:01:48.080 --> 00:01:52.480
It was this great big enormous fireplace that you really could have pushed the Wicked Witch

35
00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:53.060
of the West in.

36
00:01:53.980 --> 00:01:57.600
And I used to bring Ruth her coffee every morning because she couldn't figure out how

37
00:01:57.600 --> 00:01:58.880
to work that thing to save her life.

38
00:01:59.380 --> 00:02:03.240
So I would bring her coffee in bed, and she said that that was the greatest time she ever

39
00:02:03.240 --> 00:02:04.120
had in her life.

40
00:02:05.340 --> 00:02:06.480
But it was a beautiful place.

41
00:02:06.660 --> 00:02:11.680
Andre was there at the same time, and he founded Marvelous to Paint there, did some beautiful

42
00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:15.740
sketches of the countryside umbrella there, Spoleto.

43
00:02:16.780 --> 00:02:22.380
And then she went to, what was Giancarlo Manati, because we were in connection with the Festival

44
00:02:22.380 --> 00:02:22.900
to World.

45
00:02:23.780 --> 00:02:28.840
And she went to a marvelous party, and she was so excited because he has this fantastic

46
00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:31.320
palazzo there, Il Palazzo.

47
00:02:31.700 --> 00:02:35.160
And she went to this party, and she told me, she said, I am so excited because I'm going

48
00:02:35.160 --> 00:02:36.540
to meet Ezra Pound.

49
00:02:37.460 --> 00:02:39.600
And I said, oh Ruth, I can't wait to hear about this one.

50
00:02:40.220 --> 00:02:45.380
So she came back finally, and she said, I've never had a worse time in my life.

51
00:02:45.760 --> 00:02:49.380
She said, they sat me next to Ezra Pound, and he looked like he was dead.

52
00:02:49.380 --> 00:02:54.300
She said, this old skeleton was sitting there, and every time I asked him a question or tried

53
00:02:54.300 --> 00:02:56.160
to talk to him, he grunted at me.

54
00:02:56.820 --> 00:02:59.700
She said, all I got out of meeting Ezra Pound was a lot of grunts.

55
00:03:00.040 --> 00:03:00.860
That was it.

56
00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:02.880
She couldn't get anything.

57
00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:07.380
And if you can't talk to Ruth Page, you can't talk to anybody, because she is a brilliant

58
00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:08.560
conversationalist.

59
00:03:08.980 --> 00:03:09.300
True.

60
00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:11.040
And lots of fine people were there.

61
00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:18.640
A lot of her old friends, Bucky Calder, Bucky Fuller, Westminster Fuller was there, and

62
00:03:18.640 --> 00:03:19.780
Bucky was an old friend of hers.

63
00:03:20.200 --> 00:03:22.580
Isamu Noguchi came and visited.

64
00:03:22.640 --> 00:03:24.280
She hadn't seen him in a long time.

65
00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:25.000
That was marvelous.

66
00:03:25.600 --> 00:03:28.280
She screamed when she saw him, because he surprised her.

67
00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:29.260
She didn't know he was there.

68
00:03:29.720 --> 00:03:30.680
So that was a lot of fun.

69
00:03:31.160 --> 00:03:33.680
That was another experience with these wonderful people.

70
00:03:34.420 --> 00:03:37.520
Europe is a wonderful place to go and meet different people.

71
00:03:38.640 --> 00:03:42.560
And I think Ruth is influenced a lot by Europeans and Europe itself.

72
00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:47.700
She's got a very European mentality in a lot of ways for being as American as she is.

73
00:03:47.700 --> 00:03:49.020
What do you mean?

74
00:03:50.180 --> 00:03:53.220
There's a freer outlook, I think, on a lot of things.

75
00:03:53.960 --> 00:04:00.100
Where we would be shocked at her thinking to take her clothes off, they don't bat an

76
00:04:00.100 --> 00:04:01.000
eye.

77
00:04:01.780 --> 00:04:03.980
And I think a lot of that has influenced her.

78
00:04:04.940 --> 00:04:05.840
But she is wonderful.

79
00:04:06.920 --> 00:04:07.380
We agree.

80
00:04:07.800 --> 00:04:08.140
Thanks.

81
00:04:08.340 --> 00:04:08.660
You're welcome.

82
00:04:08.980 --> 00:04:09.800
So are you wonderful.

83
00:04:10.420 --> 00:04:11.300
You're terrific, Warren.

84
00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:14.480
Ron, this will be present for office.

85
00:04:37.100 --> 00:04:38.500
sale

86
00:04:38.500 --> 00:04:38.500


87
00:04:38.500 --> 00:04:38.500


88
00:04:38.500 --> 00:04:39.160
Garden

89
00:04:46.140 --> 00:04:47.540
First

90
00:04:47.540 --> 00:04:47.600
Are

91
00:04:43.500 --> 00:04:44.960
There

92
00:04:44.960 --> 00:04:46.960
Only

93
00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:48.840
That first time you met Ruth Page?

94
00:04:50.540 --> 00:04:54.500
The first time I met Ruth Page was when I auditioned for her company,

95
00:04:55.280 --> 00:04:57.300
right after I got out of high school.

96
00:04:59.380 --> 00:05:01.200
It was just a frightening experience,

97
00:05:01.460 --> 00:05:05.200
and I was very lucky because I got into the company.

98
00:05:06.180 --> 00:05:10.120
But she was very nice, she was very sweet and very understanding,

99
00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:13.080
even though I slipped and fell down when I did my variation.

100
00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:16.620
I was really surprised that she took me,

101
00:05:16.620 --> 00:05:21.620
but I think that I had friends in the company that kind of told her

102
00:05:21.620 --> 00:05:23.180
I wouldn't always fall down.

103
00:05:24.740 --> 00:05:27.800
And then you started out in the Cordova Ballet in 1956.

104
00:05:28.540 --> 00:05:28.540


105
00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:30.040
Just one second.

106
00:05:30.220 --> 00:05:32.400
I want to move to about four inches that away.

107
00:05:36.280 --> 00:05:38.420
You get this little thing growing out of the back of your head,

108
00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:40.760
which is not actually yours, it's a plant.

109
00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:43.080
Okay.

110
00:05:47.580 --> 00:05:50.840
So you started in the Cordova Ballet in 1956.

111
00:05:51.420 --> 00:05:52.140
Yes.

112
00:05:52.660 --> 00:05:53.760
And then what?

113
00:05:56.060 --> 00:06:01.660
Well, I was also studying at Ed McRae's at the same time,

114
00:06:01.780 --> 00:06:06.340
and Ms. Page was nice enough to let the dancers in Chicago

115
00:06:06.340 --> 00:06:08.680
study with their own teachers in the morning

116
00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:11.800
and come to rehearsal after, which was really great

117
00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:15.420
because we were still kind of young and just getting out of school.

118
00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:20.020
And it was just like a new experience working with her

119
00:06:20.020 --> 00:06:26.120
because her ballets were so different from the regular classical straight stuff

120
00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:30.180
that I had learned and the straight character that I had learned.

121
00:06:30.940 --> 00:06:34.900
And it was a very different experience.

122
00:06:35.820 --> 00:06:37.120
In what ways would they do better?

123
00:06:38.300 --> 00:06:41.800
Well, I don't remember what we did first.

124
00:06:41.900 --> 00:06:45.200
I loved the operas because they were kind of fun.

125
00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:47.740
You were part of the whole thing,

126
00:06:48.100 --> 00:06:50.480
and you got to see all the wonderful opera stars

127
00:06:51.080 --> 00:06:54.460
and dance in all the different operas and be different things.

128
00:06:55.060 --> 00:06:56.940
Every opera you were a different kind of person.

129
00:06:57.660 --> 00:07:04.060
But when she did her Elmore Brujo, it was something that I had never done.

130
00:07:04.060 --> 00:07:09.380
It was kind of wild gypsy, sort of Spanishy, sort of Ruth Page.

131
00:07:11.020 --> 00:07:13.840
And I had never done anything like that before.

132
00:07:14.180 --> 00:07:17.500
And it was the first time that she almost made me cry

133
00:07:17.500 --> 00:07:20.080
because I couldn't count some of the things.

134
00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:24.060
And Ms. McRae made us count like that in class all the time.

135
00:07:24.380 --> 00:07:26.440
We were supposed to know what we were doing.

136
00:07:27.100 --> 00:07:29.940
And she made me get out in front of the whole company

137
00:07:30.660 --> 00:07:33.020
and do the step and count it.

138
00:07:33.020 --> 00:07:35.460
And I couldn't.

139
00:07:35.540 --> 00:07:37.220
And it was so foreign to me.

140
00:07:38.020 --> 00:07:39.020
I did it.

141
00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:41.260
I did it.

142
00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:43.940
I was so scared I did it.

143
00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:47.700
And I didn't cry, which made me very happy,

144
00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:48.640
because I was afraid I was.

145
00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:49.920
I was so embarrassed.

146
00:07:50.540 --> 00:07:52.700
But when you're that young and all the other people

147
00:07:52.700 --> 00:07:57.240
were kind of used to her way of moving and way of working,

148
00:07:58.100 --> 00:07:59.280
I learned fast.

149
00:07:59.640 --> 00:08:01.240
And I loved it ever since.

150
00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:03.460
It was really fun.

151
00:08:03.460 --> 00:08:04.600
Was she tough?

152
00:08:06.420 --> 00:08:06.560
Ah.

153
00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:15.520
Well, I guess some people might say she was tough.

154
00:08:15.960 --> 00:08:19.920
I didn't think of her as tough, because I had a tough teacher.

155
00:08:20.920 --> 00:08:22.940
A loving teacher, but a tough teacher.

156
00:08:23.220 --> 00:08:25.800
I mean, you'd go into class shaking

157
00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:27.920
because you were afraid you'd do something wrong.

158
00:08:28.500 --> 00:08:31.480
Miss Page was very nice and very understanding.

159
00:08:33.100 --> 00:08:35.960
Sometimes she would say things off the top of her head

160
00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:37.860
that might hurt your feelings, you know,

161
00:08:37.900 --> 00:08:39.680
like saying, oh, my God, you're fat.

162
00:08:41.580 --> 00:08:42.800
Did you eat too much today?

163
00:08:42.800 --> 00:08:44.100
You just blew up.

164
00:08:44.540 --> 00:08:46.920
And then she'd forget about it and was real nice.

165
00:08:47.340 --> 00:08:52.260
But I never thought of her as being tough, you know,

166
00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:55.200
a real somebody that just said,

167
00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:57.120
you have to do it that way all the time.

168
00:08:57.640 --> 00:09:01.480
And she, if things didn't work out quite right,

169
00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:02.520
she would change.

170
00:09:02.600 --> 00:09:04.100
She didn't...

171
00:09:04.100 --> 00:09:06.580
Now, other people might have found her differently,

172
00:09:07.520 --> 00:09:10.780
but even coming up, working with the cordoballi

173
00:09:10.780 --> 00:09:13.480
and then on into working with her as a principal,

174
00:09:14.100 --> 00:09:17.160
I enjoyed working with her because she was willing to listen

175
00:09:17.160 --> 00:09:19.300
to what you had, what you felt.

176
00:09:19.860 --> 00:09:21.660
She might not agree with you and won't let you do it,

177
00:09:21.660 --> 00:09:22.760
but at least she'd listen.

178
00:09:22.760 --> 00:09:25.760
And I liked that a lot.

179
00:09:26.760 --> 00:09:28.960
How long were you with Ruth's company

180
00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:31.080
before you became a principal dancer?

181
00:09:34.500 --> 00:09:36.440
Oh, I'd have to count back.

182
00:09:37.420 --> 00:09:38.560
I mean, approximately.

183
00:09:39.520 --> 00:09:40.200
Approximately.

184
00:09:40.360 --> 00:09:42.800
I started with her when I was 17.

185
00:09:47.500 --> 00:09:51.100
I started to do solo work about five years later,

186
00:09:52.300 --> 00:09:55.000
slowly, and then it was like a big jump,

187
00:09:55.280 --> 00:09:58.000
and there I was, and it was great.

188
00:09:58.700 --> 00:10:00.840
Everybody left the company at the same time,

189
00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:03.880
and I was the only one there, so I got it.

190
00:10:05.280 --> 00:10:07.360
One of those freak things.

191
00:10:08.400 --> 00:10:09.820
And I was...

192
00:10:09.820 --> 00:10:11.400
I got to dance with Kenneth Johnson,

193
00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:13.160
who had been the star all the time,

194
00:10:13.160 --> 00:10:16.860
and it was really great for this little girl to come out

195
00:10:16.860 --> 00:10:18.660
and be able to dance with this man

196
00:10:18.660 --> 00:10:20.840
who partnered all the ballerinas.

197
00:10:22.160 --> 00:10:24.480
And we became a partnership after that

198
00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:26.580
and danced together for the rest of Ruth's company,

199
00:10:26.660 --> 00:10:28.660
and then after that...

200
00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:31.620
You really were her prima ballerina.

201
00:10:32.040 --> 00:10:32.480
Yes.

202
00:10:33.460 --> 00:10:36.480
And she made me a prima ballerina.

203
00:10:36.520 --> 00:10:38.840
I mean, I was her kind of dancer.

204
00:10:39.740 --> 00:10:41.560
Whether people liked the way I danced

205
00:10:41.560 --> 00:10:43.300
or didn't like the way I danced,

206
00:10:43.580 --> 00:10:45.220
I was a Ruth Page dancer.

207
00:10:45.220 --> 00:10:46.820
What do you mean, Pat?

208
00:10:46.820 --> 00:10:48.340
How did you decide to be a Ruth Page dancer?

209
00:10:48.800 --> 00:10:51.820
Well, it was the kind of dancing I really wanted to do.

210
00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:54.700
It's like the difference between seeing

211
00:10:54.700 --> 00:10:58.760
theman variations and seeing fall river legend.

212
00:11:00.220 --> 00:11:03.220
I was the fall river legend type, the dramatic...

213
00:11:03.800 --> 00:11:07.720
You danced because you were doing something dramatic.

214
00:11:08.020 --> 00:11:09.400
You weren't out there going,

215
00:11:09.700 --> 00:11:12.060
this is my technique and I'm perfect,

216
00:11:12.060 --> 00:11:16.140
because I wasn't perfect and I knew I wouldn't be perfect.

217
00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:18.520
So you kind of had this thing,

218
00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:20.680
if you want to call it hide behind,

219
00:11:21.500 --> 00:11:22.620
but it really wasn't.

220
00:11:22.640 --> 00:11:26.500
It made you not worry so much about the technique

221
00:11:26.500 --> 00:11:29.740
because it was coming through the storyline.

222
00:11:30.980 --> 00:11:34.400
And that's what I liked so much about her work.

223
00:11:36.260 --> 00:11:39.820
Why do you think Ruth chose you?

224
00:11:39.860 --> 00:11:40.920
You don't really believe,

225
00:11:40.920 --> 00:11:42.920
and nobody would really believe that everybody else left

226
00:11:42.920 --> 00:11:44.680
and you just inherited them. Come on.

227
00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:46.280
It was true.

228
00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:49.200
Barbara Steele had been her ballerina

229
00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:51.500
and she had just decided to retire.

230
00:11:52.660 --> 00:11:55.420
A girl that she had been grooming went to Ballet Theatre

231
00:11:55.420 --> 00:12:00.240
and Dolores had gone off to New York for a year.

232
00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:03.460
It just all happened at the same time.

233
00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:08.220
I was there and she started to work with me.

234
00:12:08.220 --> 00:12:12.880
And it just kind of went together.

235
00:12:13.500 --> 00:12:15.500
I think she enjoyed working with me

236
00:12:15.500 --> 00:12:17.660
as much as I enjoyed working with her.

237
00:12:20.560 --> 00:12:21.820
How did you feel?

238
00:12:22.180 --> 00:12:26.380
You danced all the major Ruth Page roles.

239
00:12:27.860 --> 00:12:29.980
All except in Revenge.

240
00:12:30.140 --> 00:12:31.360
I never did Azar Chena.

241
00:12:32.740 --> 00:12:35.220
I did Leonore, but I never got to do Azar Chena.

242
00:12:35.220 --> 00:12:35.940
She always said,

243
00:12:36.220 --> 00:12:39.040
I might revive it so that you could do the part,

244
00:12:39.340 --> 00:12:41.620
but we never got a chance to do it again.

245
00:12:41.800 --> 00:12:42.700
The company folded.

246
00:12:44.400 --> 00:12:47.160
How did you feel, Pat, when occasionally

247
00:12:47.160 --> 00:12:50.500
guest artists would come in and be dancing your roles?

248
00:12:52.220 --> 00:12:54.360
Probably the way anybody else feels.

249
00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:56.600
It would really depend.

250
00:12:57.380 --> 00:12:59.720
Most of the time it was understood.

251
00:13:00.620 --> 00:13:03.520
When she did Mary Widowell, I wasn't in that position yet.

252
00:13:03.520 --> 00:13:07.160
I started helping her when she did Camille.

253
00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:10.520
Some of it was set on me and some was set on Etta Burrow.

254
00:13:12.340 --> 00:13:15.220
You knew it wasn't being done for you.

255
00:13:15.460 --> 00:13:18.720
You were having it set on you for somebody else,

256
00:13:18.820 --> 00:13:22.260
and then maybe you would get a chance to do it sometime.

257
00:13:23.080 --> 00:13:24.660
So that wasn't too bad.

258
00:13:24.980 --> 00:13:29.880
The only time that I ever really felt funny

259
00:13:29.880 --> 00:13:33.400
about something like that and really talked up for myself

260
00:13:33.400 --> 00:13:36.240
was with her Romeo and Juliet.

261
00:13:36.660 --> 00:13:41.160
She did it for Kenneth and I, and she asked us if we would do it.

262
00:13:41.380 --> 00:13:44.180
Then she wanted someone else to do it on tour,

263
00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:48.320
and then I said, you did it for me, and I want to dance it.

264
00:13:49.040 --> 00:13:50.200
So she let me dance it.

265
00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:53.400
We alternated, but I got more performances than the other people.

266
00:13:54.860 --> 00:13:56.660
But it was mine.

267
00:13:56.820 --> 00:13:58.140
She did it for me.

268
00:13:59.380 --> 00:14:02.440
It's a whole different thing than if you're dancing

269
00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:05.640
for somebody else and you know they're going to come in and do it,

270
00:14:05.700 --> 00:14:08.020
and then maybe next year you'll get to do it.

271
00:14:08.500 --> 00:14:10.140
But when something is done for you,

272
00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:12.820
that's when you want to stand up and fight.

273
00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:17.740
Talk about the process of having a ballet set on you.

274
00:14:17.920 --> 00:14:21.000
What was the process in working out the choreography?

275
00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:22.240
How would you do that?

276
00:14:22.800 --> 00:14:26.700
In those days, she would kind of show you what she wanted,

277
00:14:27.700 --> 00:14:31.100
and then you would try to simulate what she wanted.

278
00:14:31.100 --> 00:14:34.280
Now, a lot of her things we gave funny names to

279
00:14:34.280 --> 00:14:37.280
because they weren't exactly...

280
00:14:37.280 --> 00:14:40.260
They were ballet steps, but not really ballet steps.

281
00:14:40.380 --> 00:14:43.540
They were something she created because she is very creative.