WEBVTT

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This will be audio on channel one, will be a boom microphone with tone, and on channel

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two will be a lavalier microphone. Mixing is preferred tone from now.

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I would predict a starting point of 20 seconds from now.

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20 seconds, okay. This will be fun. It's just really a conversation.

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I'm going to start by asking you the first time you met Ruth.

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Okay, Orrin, tell me about the first time you met Ruth Page.

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I met Ruth Page when I was 12 years old through my brother who at that time was her musical

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director and accompanist. And I'd seen the lady for years and years before I ever decided

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to dance myself, which happened when I turned about 17. I thought, that stuff looks like

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a lot of fun and I'm going to see if I can do it. And I took class with Charlie Bachman

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here in Chicago and he came to me afterwards and he said, you know, you have a lot of talent.

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And so I studied very hard with him and a few other people. I auditioned for Ruth when

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I was 21 years old and have been with her ever since.

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Tell me about that first time you went out on the road. 1956.

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1956, that year. Now they know how old I am. Oh well. And let's see. It was my first tour.

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It was my first big professional experience and I loved it. I just loved it. I started

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in the corps de ballet and she was marvelous. Just marvelous to work with.

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Why? Tell me. Oh she was so much fun. She was so vibrant

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and she was just marvelous. She laughed and she screamed and she hollered at us. At that

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time we were doing the opera season too so while we were doing the operas we were learning

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the ballets that we were going to take on the road, which at that time was the Merry

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Widow and Revenge. And I was lucky. I got some little sort of featured choral parts

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from the very beginning which was marvelous. And that was the first tour and it was three

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months long and we did one night stands. You haven't even known how many cities we were

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in. Did you have the sense that you were bringing

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ballet to people who had not ever seen it before?

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You know at that time I think I was so stupid. I was just doing it for me. I just loved it.

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It was just so marvelous to dance every night to do these ballets. And they were marvelous.

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They were marvelous to dance. Very fun and up and dancey. Revenge of course was very

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dramatic and then it contrasted beautifully with the Merry Widow. And of course at that

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time we had these wonderful guest stars. I think it was Skabeen and Tallchief. Marjorie

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Tallchief. And they were wonderful. Who else? We had somebody else. Sonia Erova I think

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was on the first tour. Job Saunders. And then later you had Melissa Hayden and Kirsten

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Simone. Henning Kronstein. Eric Brown. We've had everybody. The greatest.

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Now I've always wondered how you were dancing the principal roles and then guest artists

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would come in and take away your role. Can you talk about how that felt? But you know

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start and make it a complete sound. Okay. When the guest stars came in I never felt

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that it was taking anything away from me. I always felt it was an addition to my knowledge

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to get to see them doing the same parts that I was doing. I never felt that. I'm kind of

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surprised even that the question would come up. It just, to have them there enhanced the

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company so much I think by their stature. And which in turn of course if the company

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was enhanced I felt enhanced. Okay so maybe, well the way she cast the ballets if they

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did one of the roles that I was doing I would have something else. Maybe not as big a ballet

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to dance but a trio. A pas de trois or a pas de deux or something equally good. So I really

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never did feel that too much. Do you think that Ruth did that on purpose? To make sure

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that her own featured dancers always had an important part of the program? Yeah. She

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would have to make sure that we were shown doing good things because otherwise we would

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scream and jump up and down and be obnoxious. Really? Yeah really. We had our fights as

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any professional group of people does. I should have said fights. I should have said disagreements.

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What were they? No they were fights. They were good down and out fights. What were they

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about mostly? Almost anything. Almost anything. We were, you know I think we were a very difficult

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group of people. Why? Because, I hate to say this but most artists are slightly temperamental

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and some of us were a little more temperamental than others and I have some memories that

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I'm not too proud of and said things that I probably shouldn't have said but I'm famous

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for my honesty and whatever happens comes right out of my face. Boy my mouth opens and

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out it comes and Ruth is the same way. Ruth is, if it passes into her brain it comes out

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of her mouth and a lot of us say things unthinkingly and there were times that Ruth and I did go

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at it about if she wanted something some certain way. I'll never forget there was one time

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we were doing, it was one of my first snow pot it is in the Nutcracker and I will not

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mention the girl who was just one of the sort of guests that came in and out and Ruth said

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to me you know you're not lifting her high enough in that overhead lift and I said but

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Ruth you know that's as high as I go and the girl was up there in this god awful position

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and she said well she doesn't look right and I said well then tell her don't tell me and

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we got into this big fight. Funny funny funny. While you were standing there. No no no this

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was afterwards she called me afterwards. You just didn't get her high enough and I said

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well but I think she was used to a taller boy and I just didn't look that tall and the

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girl didn't go that high. After you had these fights how did you make up? Kiss. And that

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was the end of it? Yeah almost always. I had never known her to hold a grudge particularly

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and I never did and we grumped around a lot too. Life on the road was hard. You it was

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hard and life on the road is hard because you're with these same group of people constantly

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you know you're on the bus together you eat together you dance together sometimes you

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sleep together so it you know you just really are tied up with that group of people for

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three months and you can't get away there's no place to go to get away. Now Ruth would

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travel with the company and then she'd leave and then come back again she wasn't with the

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company all the time. Ruth traveled with us for the most part she she only went away for

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short periods of time and personally I always thought we were better when she was there.

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Why? She gave she would come back and say the most awful things another another reason

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for some of the fights she'd come back and say oh darling you were just awful in that

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you didn't do this and you didn't do that and we'd scream you know but then we would

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try to do it the way she wanted and she most of the time was right. Talk about some of

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the roles that you danced or in and what were your favorites and the differences among them?

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I did my favorite my absolute favorite of all of them was Danilo in the Merry Widow.

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Merry Widow I did I started out doing the core I graduated to Jolidon which was lots of fun good

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part and then I got to do my finally got to do Danilo and I just loved it I just didn't know

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anything could feel that wonderful and that was that was really one of my favorite roles.

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I also did the Jester in Revenge which I had a lot of disasters on that one things would happen

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to me I'll never forget one of the first performances it was done what they call in one which means in

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front of the there's supposed to be a beautiful backdrop and some of the theaters we couldn't

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hang our scenery so it was done in front of a regular curtain and somebody opened a door

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backstage and the curtain billowed and I was doing what they call turns and second where

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your leg is out to the side and you're hopping around and that my foot hit that curtain and I

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went and I was standing back looking at all the other dancers backstage and I thought what am I

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doing back here I mean it's my solo and I just jumped out it was funny because I ended up looking

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straight into Ken Johnson's face because in that case they were already for the next scene and he

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said Ari I said Ken flew back out finished the dance Ruth came back afterwards and she said

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darling you're never gonna be able to do those turns well needless to say that was one of our

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so funny needless to say I did do those turns and then I graduated from there and did ended up

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doing Manrico which was fun that was a good part too and that was real dramatic Danilo was just

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sort of a romantic prince without too much depth of character but Ben Rico had all kinds of things

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and most of the principal roles in her values are based on operas and somehow the opera stars

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aren't quite such boobs as most of the classical ballet princes we say boobs there's not a lot of

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depth in most of those characters and Ruth gave you some good meeting part meaty parts to sink

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your teeth in another favorite that wasn't a ballet of Ruth was she brought Fleming Flint's

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the lesson to us and he chose me to do it and that was that was marvelous because that's Ionesco

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he's a murderer and he's mad that was a good good fun one most difficult role most difficult

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role Flater mouse I since China and Flater mouse is very hard the the partnering is some of her

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trickiest and she's famous for her part of those there that she worked very very much with Ken

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and they did some beautiful part of their work and that one had some really hard stuff in it

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the lifts were hard the dancing was hard and at the same time you're supposed to be you know ha ha ha

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I found that one really tough also Armand and Camille but that was that was I think that was

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the one role that never suited me that one just I was a mile away from I wasn't the gushy romantic

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type somehow that one was just a little bit too soft as a character for me to get my teeth

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into I just I couldn't find him what about a ballet called combinations combinations was the

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work of love she did that for me and she did it I think for herself there was a lot of her in that

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ballet there was a lot of personal things that she was saying in that ballet and we used to

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boy talk about fights we had a lot of fights on that one she had some some wildly zany ideas

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which some some of them worked and some of them we just couldn't get to go she had a number based

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on the telephone where I was supposed to get all tangled up into phone cords and it was her

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being constantly bugged by the telephone she was you know her phone never stopped ringing

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she just it was always interrupting her and interrupting her train of thought and interrupting

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what her work and she really was trying to take out this frustration on this number and I as we

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were rehearsing I was getting choked by these phone cords and the kids were tripping all over

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me and over the phone cords and it was like how you know this isn't gonna work Oh of course it

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eventually we got it to work I don't know how and there were some marvelous things in that ballet

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some it was it was done to that nursery rhyme theme twinkle twinkle little star and she had

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some very cute stuff in there some really hard dancing that was a good one it was a different

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very very unusual ballet it didn't have it didn't so much have a story as these episodes

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and each episode somehow tied together well you know this is so long ago I can't remember

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combination it did just sort of go from one episode to another and I was the tying theme

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it was going through it when things would happen dancers would have run off I'd be in a different

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costume it was more abstract more modern mm-hmm it was very modern and it was the

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extraction came in this this episodic structure and trying to get it tied together that was that

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was hard that was a tough one there were eight variations and then there was a ninth one that

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finally got put in at the end to remember about that there was eight and apparently it just got

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so difficult nobody wanted to do the ninth I mean what can you remember if there was a ninth I

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don't remember which one it was because it's interesting it's it's a very interesting I know

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there was something we tried to get cut out right which one was that that was the there was

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here the here are the things there are the variations or I think nine was but there's

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the phone one before we ended all why don't I remember I do not remember only that it was

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extremely difficult I know there was something that we didn't feel was working and we tried

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to get her to cut that particular section and she just didn't want to what's that I can't

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remember I'm sorry was she ever were there other times when when you would try to get her to

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orange you want to get the the cord there are other times that you can remember when what

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kinds of anecdotes can you remember about trying to get things changed or trying to suggest changes

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and what happened usually when Ruth was staging something for instance when she did Escamillo for

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me and Carmen which was another of my favorite roles she had a wonderful idea and started the

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dance and because she wasn't a man and because she didn't jump the way a man jumps she would

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sketch out the steps she would say do I just see something or something something and I would say

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but that's gonna be too fast for me I will not be able to get all that in that fast and so she

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would say well how does it feel comfortable getting the same steps and I was there well if

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you cut maybe one cease and let me do something landing on one foot then I can go into the other

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side and so we tried that and she said now that does work that's exactly what I had in mind so

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work together then she had a wonderful step in there she had this mental picture of a bullfighter

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doing a handstand on the bull going over the horns and so she gave me a handstand on the floor and I

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had to do what we call a cabriole where you beat your legs together well by by standing on my hands

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my legs were up there and every time I beat them together I went into a walkover and fell on my

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back and I kept saying I can't just started to terrify me I got a real block about it and she

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wouldn't take it out she said no that's what I want that's what it has to be I said wonderful

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that's what it has to be and I was I was up there when I and she kept coming back to you saying

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you're getting lower and lower I was standing on my hands but my legs were down here someplace

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instead of getting them up over my head so finally she said well you do it so badly I'm gonna have

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to change it thank God so she did she gave me a different step in there she didn't love me for

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that one at all was was what would you say was her relationship in general to those of you in

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the company who were her principal dancers friendship bordering on love those of us that

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her nucleus worked with her almost constantly year-round we would we would rehearse off-season

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so she could get her her ideas sketched out on bodies and those were marvelous times that

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was up at 1100 Lakeshore and we would come in and work do class in the morning and do some

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rehearsing stop and have lunch go back rehearse a little more and that was that was a wonderful

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time those were that she got some beautiful things done in those rehearsals and we all we

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were we were all pretty friendly because well particularly Ken Johnson Pettigluck of itch

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my brother and myself for a click call it a click closer than some of the others and we were around

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her a lot and had a lot of fun with her talk about the parties at 1100