WEBVTT

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The intensity and drive that Ruth has, where do you think it comes from?

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Vitamins. Vitamins.

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Ruth's brother was a heart specialist, so he I'm sure gave her diets and things possibly or suggested things and that.

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But Ruth ate well and she had this energy. I mean she certainly had the love for it and her mind was constantly going.

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She would read, she would get books and she would come in and she'd say now this is how death should be and she would have these Spanish books and that with figures and you would get the feeling always from it.

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She always had backup material for whatever she did. I mean it was never just completely out of the top of her head.

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She would go away and you'd go, oh I hate this choreography or something, a section or something and she would come back the next day and do the most unusual things and you'd go, Ruth where did that come from?

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I'd say you made that up. That's what I'd say, but by God, she would come out and there it was, just fantastic.

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It's okay, I didn't bring anything?

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No, no, no, no.

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How bad is it? It's there.

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What if I dance in the back there?

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Okay.

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If you could recognize it.

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Yeah, we recognize it in the silence.

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How would you evaluate Ruth as a choreographer?

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Well Ruth's choreography to me was difficult maybe to describe because I enjoyed it.

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So to me it was a way of putting it, it was my life. It was the way I saw Romeo and Juliet, the way I saw Carmen or Jose or you could get involved in it.

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So to me it was life where I could not say if I went to see a balancing piece you would get involved.

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The earlier works were more like what Ruth did like Lassenambular or something, but the later works were completely a physical thing.

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And Ruth, you could be almost a bad dancer and come off well because the way she used you and the costumes and everything.

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So some people I would imagine maybe didn't like Ruth as a choreographer in that, but I would rate her as one of the really top.

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I mean she and Agnes de Mille and Tudor and well now they're doing Ruth's ballets, I mean all over the place, and they're redoing like they just brought out a new Mary Widow.

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Well when they did it with the Australian Ballet before it was a big flop and they had Margot Fontaine in it.

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I mean they had big stars in that and an elaborate production, but they didn't have the heart that Ruth had. They didn't have the story detail in it.

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It was more frivolous. So you were looking at like a review rather than the actual meat of what this was.

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And I think that's why Ruth's things will hold up. I did Ruth's ballet in Tulsa, I staged it down there, and they were fantastic in it.

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You do each little detail and more. They picked it up right away. In fact it was funny because the boy was a very good partner and they had all of these unusual lifts where he lifted them on the hips and things like that.

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And I would take the girl and do it and he couldn't. And here I am throwing the girl around and doing these different things and he said, if you can do it, I'm going to do it.

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And by God he killed himself and he was like crippled coming in and he did it because he liked it. He liked the way it looked in that and he was going to do it.

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As I said, a lot of your big stars that came in and went, well forget that, I'll do this in place of it. It was not the same. It did not have the same look that Ruth had. Suddenly it became more classical.

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That's why for Ruth I think she enjoyed the family feeling because we became the nucleus. It was a good group.

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But I would rate her quite high as a choreographer. She's going to last. It would be like the Mastines Gaethe and the different choreographers that have the masterpieces.

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If there is a single quality that's identifiable in Paige's work, what would it be? Heart or?

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Ruth Ballet's do have heart and soul because she always had figures in it. Whether it was comedy, you actually laughed at it because so many times you watch comedy and ballet and you don't laugh.

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It's not like television or something where you go ha ha ha. But in her works you actually do laugh. The situations are funny and how she evolves them.

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She would give it to you and you would come out and do it. When I left Ballet Theatre and I went to Chicago and I danced Barbara Seville, I used to hate to rehearse it because I had a comedy place where I had to deliver a letter and I was supposed to be drunk.

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Every time Bentley was there I knew Bentley hated it, hated me. He said Ruth cut this. It's so boring and so dull. I would do it that way. I would do it dull and then I would just mark it.

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Ruth was like, well maybe we'll cut it or maybe we'll do this and that. Anyway we went out for the performance at Mandel Hall. I hit that scene and I was so drunk and so outlandish in it because I didn't care.

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The audience screamed, applauded and everything. I finished with this pirouette and fell flat on the floor. Ruth ran over and said, you were just wonderful. Bentley probably hates you. I just looked up and said keep dancing Ruth. It was just wonderful to do.

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Bentley was jealous of you? I don't know. He could have been. He could have been because not necessarily of me but of the fact that I was still dancing. I was new. I'm sure I would be in a sense today if I were involved in the same thing and I wanted to dance and saw somebody doing my plays. It's possible.

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You keep on talking about it as a family. That you live together as a family. The company was a family. What kind of mother was she? Was she the mother? The big sister? What?

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Ruth was everything. I think she was the mother. Ruth was the sister. She was the lover. She was everything in the company. You could put the blame on her for what was wrong. You yell at your mother and you do this and that. She was a sister and she oversaw everything. She had her own particular faults as far as we were concerned.

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She was there. When anything went wrong or something you could call Ruth and complain. She always says dancers were complaining but at least we were, like I said, her children. We wanted to be petted and said we danced nice. Things like that. Plus the fact that my god we all stayed with Ruth.

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The core of some of them left but the majority stayed with Ruth and all of her soloists are still with Ruth. Everyone, Dolores, Larry, Orin. We're all still there.

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Do you love her?

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She was my favorite teacher from earlier days but she always said I was her favorite teacher and I'd always say Ruth you're my favorite pupil because if somebody didn't want to do one of my steps or something and they either didn't do it or they said well I don't want to do this or occasionally.

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Ruth always did it. Whatever I said going across the floor she would do it and I'd always say you're the best Ruth and she'd go perk up. But when she did her book on classes and she had each teacher come in and do it she never asked me to do it.

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And she sent me a book and inside the book the inscription is from your favorite pupil to my favorite teacher.

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How do you explain that?

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I can't. I'm just saying it's strange because I'm not there. When I moved to New York I'm sure it was like out of sight out of mind. I was still there and she could call me back but it was like I wasn't there daily.

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But there was nothing for me to do. The little bit there that was the nutcracker and that. And then when I came here I always pushed for Ruth's ballads because I wanted them to do them here so we did Carmina Burana and we did concertina, portuoi, we did these things here and they were big successes.

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Why do you think audiences like her so much?

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They're entertaining. Good production, they're entertaining and you don't see it anymore. You don't see it. You see I keep going back to Balanchine or people like that, a spin off from it.

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You know and you can just see so many of those and especially Midwest. I think that's one reason that Balanchine never really toured that much. It would have been expensive but the people I don't think liked it except in the big cities or in Europe.

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You know that's where the audiences go to see that. Plus now in New York they go to see these things to see the theaters. You go to the Met to see the Met then you find out what's playing.

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Because you wouldn't see some of those people if they were in a small dinky place in the village or something but you go to the tourist attractions.

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What do you think has been Ruth's major influence on American Ballet?

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I think Ruth's greatest influence was at the beginning because she took subjects that were of the day. She took like Billy Sunday and Frank and Johnny and Hear You Hear You. They were all up to date pieces.

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I think she was the pioneer just like Agnes DeMille was searching and these different people were searching for things in their period. She brought it a little further and a little further. Then it sort of stopped.

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That's when all the physical and the tricks and this and that. Ruth put in tricks and that but they were done in a subtle way. That's the difference between our Russian dancers and the American dancers.

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We have to do something even Maria Tallchief said. We have to come out very simply, walk correctly, lift the girl like it was nothing. When the Russians come in they go flat, flat, flat, hoist and bring the house down.

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We have to be just so subtle and do something maybe one arm or something but it's not done the same way. If we did it they'd say we were corny or showing off or exhibitionist.

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You had a brilliant career with Ruth. Have you ever been sorry that you didn't pick up and leave earlier?

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Well I started ballet when I was late so when I met Ruth I was never really sorry. I had the opportunity to go with different companies. I might have done more but I was never really that interested in going into completely classical roles where you just stood there and partnered in that.

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I wasn't really interested in that. I was more into the romance and the feeling, the comedy eventually which I went into. That's the sort of feeling I went. I wanted to be in another Hollywood star. I wanted to be this or I wanted to be that or I'm Broadway and that.

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Ruth in a way was the closest to it. She was the closest to it because she gave me the glamour and that's exactly what Ruth was. She was glamorous in America because the companies outside of Ballet Russe or a European company did not have this. It was sterile.

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I mean it was strange because the parties were glamorous. The conversation was glamorous. It was exciting. When I went to Europe with Ruth for a summer and that's where we did Carmen. I went to Saint Tropez and there was Brigitte Bardot and you went to England. There was Vivien Leigh. You saw all of these people. You saw how Ruth fit in.

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When Ruth came back she was not what I would call a native Chicagoan. I mean she was glamour. She was a society lady and I think a lot of people resented that because there they were of Chicago. They did their hair. They did this. I'm not knocking Chicago but Ruth brought glamour to it.

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When you went to a party or something she would stimulate you. She would just bubble when she'd talk and it rubbed off.

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Do you think she works at being glamorous?

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Well I think Ruth works a little bit at being glamorous only in the fact that she dresses well. She gets designer clothes but she'll say herself that she doesn't spend much money on designer clothes because she'll go to Paris and she gets them off the rack at designers because she was that size.

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So Margot Fontaine did that and different people. Not that she hasn't had other but she always had a name like Chanel or something like that. She always had the season dress like she had a sari dress which was like a hanky practically but it was something new and inventive.

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And Dolores Lipinski adored Ruth's clothes and half the time when Ruth was through she'd give them to Dolores which was still updated but Dolores loved them and Patricia.

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Did you ever see Ruth sad?

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Oh yes I saw Ruth sad. When Ruth fell in the orchestra pit she was pretty sad.

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And then I saw her in the hospital when she was mugged and that but once in a while like my mother watched rehearsal one day and when the rehearsal was over and she left Ruth said you know she reminds me so much of my mother.

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And I was surprised. I mean she felt very nostalgic in that that her mother was dead and that my mother had a mother quality in that. I thought gee that's a sight I've never seen of Ruth.

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Because she didn't talk that much about it. They were more like professional people. Like she'll say so and so played the piano or my mother did this or they were involved in that and her mother started the symphony in Indiana.

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She would just talk almost abstractly about these people so you didn't know her true feelings.

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I think Ruth was just had her mind to where she wanted to go and she got there.

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You know she might have wanted more maybe to be established in New York or somewhere but she did what she wanted to do.

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She created the ballets that were successful. I mean she had surrounded by artists.

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They would go to Europe and buy paintings of famous artists before they were famous artists. So you can imagine I mean they had beliefs and they had the talent to see talent.

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And Tom was very good about that so he would make very good deals for things.

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But I think she had a very good life.

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Did you ever see her angry.

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Oh many times. I mean Ruth would get angry many times about different things.

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You know if something didn't go right or it was always for the moment a superficial anger.

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We might make her angry. She would sort of walk out or something but it was only momentarily.

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I've never seen her angry for a great deal of period of time.

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Did you ever see her cry.

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Probably but I don't know that it was over anything.

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You know she might have had tears of joy or she might have had sadness but I never even remember even when Ruth was sick I don't think she ever was really.

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She took care of herself you know.

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But I don't remember her ever being upset that much that she cried.

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What do you miss most about her after you left the company and were not with Ruth almost every day.

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What did you miss most.

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When the company folded I think well I wanted her to come here which she did do for quite a while.

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But I think the only thing I could say was I would have been more involved with the school or something because I would have rather have stayed in Chicago.

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I really would but there was no offer.

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There was no offer from Ruth at all in that sense.

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She probably felt that I was content here and that I didn't want it or something.

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But I think that would be the only thing is that I would have been involved because I love Chicago and that I would have been involved with her.

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Is there anything I haven't asked you about that you'd like to tell me about.

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Well I think I've mentioned about everything with Ruth Page.

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I think everything else would be like a repetition.

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It would be other fun things about Ruth and things that have happened.

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Things in Europe that have happened.

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I mean it would get to know a little bit more about Ruth but I think it would all be repetition.

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Because like her ballet she would do certain things over again.

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Things were identifiable.

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You went this is a Ruth Page ballet because you knew there would be good pas de deux.

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You knew there would be dramatic or funny or whatever.

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But it was you said this is a Ruth Page ballet.

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It had to be the glamour and that of the sets and that.

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But I think everything else would be repetition.

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Most people who are going to be watching this television program may possibly have heard Ruth's name only dimly.

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If there was one thing you could say to them, to the people who will be watching it, what would it be?

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One quality you wanted to pick out about Ruth.

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One message you wanted you, Ken Jensen, wanted them to know about Ruth.

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I would think that if I wanted anybody to know something about Ruth or to get to know this woman outside of all the qualities I've mentioned,

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I'd go back to that she's Auntie Ruth.

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She's your Auntie Ruth.

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The fun lady when you were a child that came with the candy and the gifts and the fun and the love.

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That's Ruth Page.

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Thank you.

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This will be the presence track in studio.

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One more track.

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