WEBVTT

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Take it away.

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What did you say?

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The gypsy in you.

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Okay.

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Yes.

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We were at the Oleg Bryansky injury story.

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It was about to happen.

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Well, the following year after this Gabin incident,

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she brought in Oleg Bryansky,

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and Bryansky injured himself the first day he hurt his foot,

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and the second day because he was the one I said that was doing

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and that's what he did in the Don Q pas de deux,

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and the second day because he was injured,

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he toned the whole thing down and he danced magnificently.

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He really did, but he was out the third day he was out.

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So Ruth decided the third day that she was going to rehearse the company,

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but I had to go on in Don Q that night,

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which I didn't know whether I could even get through it.

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So she said, darling, go in the corner with Slevenska and learn it.

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And learn it.

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I mean, you just do not learn a pas de deux and go on.

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And I said, what about the music?

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And she said, well, darling, I have to have the music for the company

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because it was so bad that night.

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So she took the musician for the piano and I went in a corner,

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and Slevenska talked me through it in that, and I said, well, I don't know.

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And she said, now you do double tour.

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And I thought, I don't know whether I can jump up and do a double tour.

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So I did the first ballet and that night I went on into the pas de deux.

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And the funny thing was I tried the double tour and I made one and a half.

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So instead of being looking wrong, I finished with my back to the audience and turned.

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And I just went like this to the front.

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And everybody kept saying, that's so unusual.

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I've never seen a double tour like that before.

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And when we took a cab to go into town to a restaurant,

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the cab driver had seen the first act and he was amazed at how we did.

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He didn't know anything about it, but he said it was just wonderful.

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And so after that I started doing the pas de deux with Mia plus the other bralettes.

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Then Ruth decided the program was too long and I had to do the pas de deux without an intermission.

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And I said, well, how do I get dressed?

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And she said, well, darling, underdress.

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So I wore in those days, because you could see through the tights,

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I wore two pair of white tights and the Manrico gypsy tights.

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Well, I had so many suspenders on, the first thing I had to do was kneel.

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So I came out and I went, my knees wouldn't bend.

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So I finally got down on the floor.

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But the ballet ended and they closed the curtains and they undid the back of my jacket.

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And I went out and I bowed and I stepped through the curtain.

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They yanked this off, yanked my tights off, Orin and Ms. Lewinsky.

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And I put on my shoes, they put this jacket on, zipped it.

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It took 45 seconds.

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And I was standing there going to do the pas de deux.

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And that curtain opened, the audience gasped because I was all in black.

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And in 45 seconds I was standing there in white going, oh, oh, oh.

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And I thought, oh, boy, if I couldn't get through it before, I'm not going to get through it now.

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And every night I had to do the same thing.

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Then I had 15 minutes and I did Mary Widow.

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So if you don't think that was a full evening, then we traveled 300 miles.

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And this was my life.

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Then the next year, Skabeen came back.

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There was another accident, I went back in.

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So finally, so anyway, the next year Skabeen was back again and he was out again.

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So all my parts, you know, she would say no and I would say sort of my good fairy or whatever it was looked after me.

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I'll tell you that.

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I mean, it was really remarkable.

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But she really gave me a lot because she brought in my first partner was Patricia Wilde at the opera.

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We did Traviata together.

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And Ruth took Miss Wilde out after the performance.

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And Miss Wilde told me the next day, she said, you know what Ruth told me?

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And I said, what?

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She said, please don't take Ken with you.

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She thought I was going to take her because I was such a good partner that she'd take me back to New York with her.

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But I mean, Ruth in a way knew what she wanted.

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And, you know, it's not always maybe for your good, but she kept me there and it was wonderful.

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But that another story on that vein was Ruth was going to Europe and I said, well, you know, Ruth, what do I do for the summer?

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And she said, well, darling, if anything comes up, she said, talk to Bentley Stone, who was her ex partner in that.

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And she said, whatever Bentley says, listen to him because he'll know what to do.

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So I said, well, all right, Ruth.

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So I got a phone call about a week later from Ballet Theatre from Lucia Chase.

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And she asked me to join the company because there was an injury, another injury.

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So I thought about it and I said, well, I'll let you know.

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She said, well, you'll have to go by Monday.

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And I said, well, all right, I'll let you know by Monday.

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So I called Bentley and I said, well, Bentley, what should I do?

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He said, go, go.

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He said, don't even think about it.

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He said, it's a wonderful opportunity.

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You're going to be with American Ballet Theatre.

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He said, don't even think about it.

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Just go.

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So Lucia called and I went.

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And that day I drove 300 miles to Davenport, Iowa.

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And they kept saying, you're dancing tonight.

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And I laughed.

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I said, in what?

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I said, I know we're out on the road for three weeks.

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Then we're going to New York to the Met.

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And I said, dancing what?

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I thought, I'll have three weeks of rehearsal.

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So we went and sure enough, I got off the bus at five o'clock.

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They said, rehearsal at six in the ballroom.

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We couldn't get in the theater because they have movies until six.

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So they taught me Aurora's Wedding.

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They came in.

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And they said, now you do step A, you do step B, you do step A, you do step C.

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Is that clear?

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And I said, yeah.

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I said, what's step A?

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I said, what is this?

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So the kids had been on tour.

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And this was the end of the tour.

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And they were tired.

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So they said, the girl you're going to dance with, you can't have because she's on overtime.

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So learn it with this girl.

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So I learned it with this girl.

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Then I learned Aurora's Wedding.

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I went out there.

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All the girls came on.

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They had their hair down, a bow in their hair, and a dress.

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And when they turned their back, they all looked alike.

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And we had to do a chair dance where you follow the girls.

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And then you put them down and they sit.

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And I said, please let me have it under one of those girls.

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Somebody's going to fall and go, oh, you're the partner.

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Because I didn't even know who I was dancing with.

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Well, I didn't make any mistakes.

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I went in.

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The next day, I went into Giselle.

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I went into all of these parts.

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Well, anyway, Ruth came back from Europe.

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And I was in New York dancing with them.

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She called me up.

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She said, darling, what are you doing in American Ballet Theater?

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I said, well, you told me to call Bentley.

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And he said, go.

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And she said, well, you know you should never listen to Bentley.

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He's so jealous of you.

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I went, oh, my god.

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So she said, well, darling, she said, I'm doing a performance of Susanna and the Barber in Chicago.

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It was the premiere.

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She said, if you want to do it, I'll get you out of the company.

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Otherwise, I'll hire Oleg Bryansky.

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And I thought, you only have a few days.

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He could never learn the part because he was a little slow at learning, you know, very good at performing.

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And I said, well, if you can get me out.

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And by god, she got me out of the company.

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And I went back.

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Do you think she'd give me the leads?

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No.

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I had to wait for another one.

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I clonked out.

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And from then on, I was doing all the leads.

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So not to change the subject, but I came here with Pittsburgh Ballet.

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The last thing I did for them was Carmina Cattulli, which was Ruth Page Ballet.

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She brought in Edward Vilella.

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She never thought I could do Carmina Cattulli.

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I was never up, but I was supposed to do the Sunday matinee because Vilella couldn't do it.

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He kept rehearsing and rehearsing.

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And I said, Eddie, I said, you're going to hurt yourself.

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You're going to hurt yourself.

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And he said, no, no, let's just do it once more.

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And I said, well, we can make some cuts because we were dancing too much.

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And I said, let's cut this step.

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He says, no, I like this step.

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Let's cut that step.

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So in his version, he cut one step.

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I cut the other step.

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So he was going to a press interview with Ruth.

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He got out of bed.

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He went over to the sink and started to shave and he couldn't straighten up.

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His back was gone.

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So they called me into the office and they said, well, can you have to do the dress rehearsal and the filming?

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Because he'll be in New York with his masseur and that, and then he'll come back for the opening.

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So then I got a phone call.

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I did that.

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And this was like at midnight.

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We did the whole thing and then did the filming.

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So after that was the next day.

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And they said, you have to do the opening.

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So they put up a sign and everything and they put in for if you want to refund.

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Well, I believe two people went and I said it probably was the our bosses or something.

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Anyway, there I was.

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I went out and I did the performance and the reviews came out and said, who needs Vilela?

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That was the headline.

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And it said in it, it said I was not an understudy.

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I was an alternate because I was doing it Sunday.

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Loved the ballet.

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It was big, big, big success here.

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That was funny.

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You've been lucky for her, too.

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I get the feeling.

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I was in a sense because a lot of times Ruth would bring in a guest star and they were not adaptable because they would learn absolutely classical dancing.

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Like you would do two pirouettes.

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They would support two pirouettes.

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If you did two and one off balance or you did something like that, they weren't used to that.

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So they would cut it.

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So a lot of the magic that was in the ballet wasn't.

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That's why if I danced with somebody like Ruth would bring in Maria or something like that, I knew enough that I could partner them.

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So it was more it was extremely important for the boy rather than the girl, because if you knew what you were doing, you could do it with anybody.

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But it was very difficult for a boy.

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The girl leans out.

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The boy goes with her.

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It was that kind of thing.

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So I had an innate feeling for it.

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And that's why Ruth and I got along because she adored partnering things.

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And most of the things I worked out with Ruth, I would lift her or she'd crawl over me or something.

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We would get it on.

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I go, that's unusual, Ruth, but it always worked.

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Tell me about Bentley Stone.

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Did you know him well?

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Well, I knew Bentley.

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I studied with him for a while and we would go out for a beer and eggs after class or something once in a while.

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But he was a very, at the time I knew him, he was extremely nervous.

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He was very nervous type of person, but very creative.

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I mean, I saw things that he had choreographed and I saw a couple of performances that Ruth did with Bentley.

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But I think he was a very nervous performer.

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He didn't perform often enough that you get a certain freedom, confidence, I suppose is the word for it.

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But he was extremely nervous and then I had to dress with him in the rooms and he was like this before he would go on.

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Ruth would have to come back and pacify him.

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So she would come back and say, Bentley, you were wonderful.

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She said, oh, it couldn't have been better, darling.

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And I'd be behind the door and she turned and said, oh, you were good too.

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I had to walk out and I go, what was that?

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Why did, so far as you've heard, the Page Stone Ballet break up?

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Well, I don't know. I don't know exactly, but I would guess that there weren't enough performances.

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And Bentley and Walter Cameron had the school.

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And so he was not that free to go back and forth.

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So he would do certain performances locally.

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And Ruth wanted to do more and I don't think Bentley wanted to get involved with it.

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That he was getting to the point, because he wasn't performing, he was getting older, I suppose, that he didn't want to do that sort of thing.

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He encouraged it and encouraged his dancers to do it.

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But Ruth had the opera in that.

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So she did more than he did at that time.

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It seems like in reading about it that they had a very, very productive, creative relationship.

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Oh, they did.

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And all the years that he was her partner.

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Yes. But it was like a period in her life.

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And then it ended and she went on into these other things and became involved in other people.

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And it worked for her, you know, just like she wasn't dancing that much anymore.

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You know, she was doing Herodias and Salome and Isa Chena.

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And second roles are interesting character roles, which she was going into, basically.

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When you were working with the company, how much in evidence was Tom Fisher in terms of, you said that he seemed like management personally,

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how much of a role did he have in terms of the daily ongoing life of the company?

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Well, Tom Fisher's involvement with the company, I think, was complete lead management.

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I think he handled all the contracts and the negotiations with Columbia or the Lyric Opera and made sure that Ruth was treated well,

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although Ruth did, I'm sure, a great deal for nothing.

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I'm sure she did.

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And because she was very dedicated and if anybody got money, she wanted the dancers to have it.

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And he would come around and inquire, but he kept pretty much to himself.

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It was just primarily management because we were doing a lecture one day and Tom drove us and Ruth kept saying, don't come, Tom.

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She said, I don't want you to see it.

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She said, find a room, do your business and everything.

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And when it's over, we'll leave.

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So he said, all right, Ruth, you know, and we did the lecture and it was wonderful.

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It was absolutely wonderful.

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So when it was over, Ruth said, well, Tom, how did you like it?

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And he said, I didn't see it.

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What do you mean you didn't see it?

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And he said, we told me to go in the other room.

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She said, well, I didn't mean it.

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You could have snuck in and seen it, but that was only because it went well.

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But I mean, he just kept himself away from a lot of it.

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Creatively, do you think he influenced her at all?

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I think he helped surround Ruth with creative people like Delpho or Isaac Van Grove.

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I mean, he knew of these people and I'm sure he encouraged Ruth to use them.

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And he offered, I'm sure, many, many suggestions, you know, but it was primarily the background.

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Like Ruth did all the choreography and all of that.

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I don't think Tom, maybe he did privately, but I don't think he ever really criticized Ruth or her work.

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Like he accepted that it was Ruth's things and they were all good.

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If it was hers, it was good.

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Who ran that relationship, Ruth or Tom?

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Well, I think both because I think Ruth ran it during the day when she did the company and everything.

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But at night she was all Tom's because if there was a party that he wanted to go to and she was tired,

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she got dressed and she went to the party.

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I mean, if he wanted to go to Europe, we didn't rehearse that summer.

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She was in Europe.

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She didn't like sometimes to go.

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I mean, she really wanted to stay and rehearse, but she would go.

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I mean, he had the final say on almost everything.

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But I'm sure she got her way with a lot of things, you know.

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Like she used to say, well, if Tom wins this case, we'll have a new ballet

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because he would use the money or put it in investments so that we could use the interest on it or whatever.

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But they were both for the company.

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I mean, they both enjoyed it.

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Yes.

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They had a kind of open marriage. Were you aware of that?

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I would think so, sure.

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I'm pretty sure because he was either out of town a lot on business or she was out of town on the tour.

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You know, so I'm sure they...

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But I don't think too many people knew much about Ruth's personal life, you know,

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because she never really said that much.

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I mean, every once in a while she would joke about something, but you never really knew.

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Like I think she could have married Firestone or something.

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She did.

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I mean, she mentioned something.

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If it wasn't he, it was somebody on that category.

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But I think it was.

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She said he proposed and she said she was like too busy.

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Did you notice a difference in her after Tom died?

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Well, the basic difference was she gave up the company because he died

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and the wages for like the stage of hands and that was so outrageous.

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I mean, you know, they were paying like $600 a week and so many at that time.

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I mean, it was a lot of money.

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The musicians were getting a lot of money.

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It was only us that weren't getting that much.

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And even Ruth commented about that.

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They would go to Florida for tans and we would stay in Chicago and go white.

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It was ridiculous.

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But that was one of the big reasons.

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Plus she had Nutcracker, you know, that was her yearly thing.

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And then when Mr. Petrov came and brought her here, it was like a second home.

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It was started all over again.

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She loved it here.

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She had the company.

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She didn't have to worry about a union.

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She had whatever she wanted was here and she adored coming here.

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So we came here quite often and there was talk about the merging,

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which was ahead of its time.

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That's what the companies are doing now.

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We could have had a Chicago-Pittsburgh company, you know,

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that she could have used the dancers here plus a nucleus

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and they could have done Nutcracker and the whole thing.

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I think, I don't believe Tom was alive then, but she just got scared.

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If somebody pushed her, she would have agreed.

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But when she reverted, it was like, no, it's safer not to do this.

326
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But we did her ballets.

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We did quite a few of the ballets.

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We did like Alice in Wonderland we did.

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And that's how I said I did Carmen here.

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And then Patty and I went up to do Jacob's Pillar.

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We were doing Alice in Wonderland up there, a section of it.

332
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And Mrs. Falk, who was on the board and her secretary,

333
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drove up and saw the performance.

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And when it was over, she offered Patty and I a contract.

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And they wanted me to be the ballet master and the principal dancer.

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And then they would bring Patty in when they got more money.

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And they drove back.

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I agreed to do it.

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And they drove back.

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And the president said, well, if you're going to bring Patricia, bring her now,

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because it's silly.

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We'll get the money.

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So we both came in.

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And from then on, we were doing ballets.

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But we were doing a lot of Ruth's things.

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And then, as I said, Mr. Petrov was doing about Pergis Knight,

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which Ruth had done.

348
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But he did his version.

349
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But it was the same sort of repertoire.

350
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And then we were getting a job, a chance to go to Puerto Rico.

351
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And Nicholas had no basic repertoire.

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We had Pata Deez.

353
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And Patty and I didn't really enjoy doing Pata Deez.

354
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But we had Dagmar Kessler, who was a ballerina,

355
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and Alexander Filipov, who was a Russian defector.

356
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We had quite a few stars in that.

357
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So Patricia and I had to put together, in two weeks,

358
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we put together Ruth, Romeo, and Juliet, and Bolero.

359
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And we did the dream scene from Carmen.

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And we had a couple of our patatas that we did.

361
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And we went down to Puerto Rico.

362
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And the big hit of the evening were the Ruth Page things.

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We did the Alice in Wonderland pas de deux.

364
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We did three nights of different repertoire.

365
00:19:34.020 --> 00:19:36.960
So we got a phone call from a teacher down there that had a company.

366
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And they asked Patty and I to come down in the summertime.

367
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And we went down there.

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And we did several ballets and taught for two summers down there.

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Because they wanted the young students not to come to New York

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and those places and wander around.

371
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So they thought it was better to pay teachers to come down there.

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But we got that all through Ruth's ballets.

373
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And even now, if I go to Heinz Hall, now that we're not with the company.

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Yeah.