WEBVTT

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You're about...

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Yes, you are about to go into the Civil War.

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Ruth Page, when she was here for Carmen, I think it was, Mr. Petroff asked her to give a guest class for the week.

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And Ruth said, of course, darling, I'd love to do it. And she said, what do you want me to teach?

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And he said, a lab course. And she said, well, what is that? And he said, anything.

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And she said, anything? Well, I had to give a course too, and I kept saying anything.

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I said, Nicholas, what's anything? And he says, anything you want, anything you want.

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And I said, well, what's anything? You just don't walk into class and say anything.

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So I thought about it, and I thought, well, I'll teach the people how to waltz, because that's the worst thing that people do.

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So I saw different kinds of waltzes, you know, fast, slow, made dosey-dose, all these things and that.

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So I was wondering what Ruth was doing downstairs in the other studio.

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So I finished my class and I went downstairs, and here are these people holding guns in Panama and that, and they're stalking each other.

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And I watched and I thought, what is she doing? I couldn't believe it.

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Finally, I said, Ruth, what are you doing? She says, it's the Civil War, darling.

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And I said, what? And here she was. There were the soldiers stalking it, and there were the slaves going across.

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She was doing this whole thing with, well, there were medium-sized children.

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There were probably maybe 12 or something, or maybe nine.

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But she had this whole group enthralled. They loved her, you know, they applauded after class and that, but she had talked them into it and that.

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So I went to Mr. Petrov and I said, Mr. Petrov, you have to give her the advanced class.

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I said, you can't hide her downstairs like that. He wasn't hiding her, but he gave her this class to do.

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So I said, Ruth, they're going to move you upstairs with the advanced class. And she said, no way, darling.

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She said she loved them. She absolutely loved working with them and that, and they had completed the whole war by the end of the week.

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I don't know who won, but she was very good at that.

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That's why I said she was very believable in what she wanted and what she did, and she was very demanding.

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And to show you how demanding she was, if a ballet was, say, an hour and we had to do 40 minutes or 45 minutes and that, she would have to make cuts.

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And she would drive the orchestra, Mr. K.N. at that time, nuts, because she would try to cut out a measure or two measures out of a piece of music.

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And that way, if she cut enough of them out, you know, it looked like Swiss cheese, but she would have the couple of minutes or whatever it is to shorten the ballet.

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And they would say, cut a whole piece out, cut out 16 bars, Ruth. And no matter what you cut was her favorite step.

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You could say the 48th step in a pas de deux or something like that, that was her favorite step.

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So one step she adored was that. And she couldn't cut it.

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And we looked and we said, well, it doesn't mean anything to it.

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I mean, to go patty cake, you know, but that had to be in.

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My God, it was in, you know, you could cut out something else, but you couldn't cut that out.

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Was she stubborn in pursuing the things that she wanted, do you think?

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Well, I would say partly stubborn.

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And I would think in a way, Ruth, I felt was sort of spoiled in her family.

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I don't know whether it's true or not, or by her husband.

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I think they sort of babied her or worshiped her or protected her.

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And I think underneath this, she had her own way a lot.

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You know, like she might have given in, but by giving in, she was still having her own way.

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And I think this influenced her a great deal with her opinions in that and the way she approached dance, that she got what she wanted.

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I mean, even if you made a change, if I made a suggestion and she said absolutely not,

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she might come the next day and say, I just thought of a new thing.

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And there was my suggestion, but it had to be from her.

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And it was her idea for a lot of things.

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And maybe she thought it was, you know, a little birdie told her something.

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Was she a leader?

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Oh, yeah. Yeah.

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She was a leader, but I think her husband, Tom, had a strong influence on her.

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Like sometimes we would be paid for rehearsals.

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This was not before the company was when we were just putting ballets together and you would get a check for a few dollars or something.

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She said, darling, don't cash it till Monday because our interest didn't come through.

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So it was always through investments.

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And she would say, now, darling, if Tom wins this case, we have a new ballet.

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So that's how the money came in.

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So we would never know, you know, about things like that.

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We always knew we got paid.

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I mean, that was not it, but because she was very good about that, you know.

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But he had a great influence on her.

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What kind of a man was he?

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Well, he was a lawyer and he was a very what you might think of as the lawyer, you know, that his to me, he didn't have that much of a sense of humor.

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He might have with Ruth or something, but he was very staunch, very social in his way.

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He was very social in that.

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But it was like Ruth went her way and he went his and they met.

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So that if she went home and she was tired or something, there was a party to go to, she went.

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She was always willing to do what Tom wanted.

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If Tom wanted to go to Europe, we didn't rehearse that summer.

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She went to Europe. I mean, she was very good.

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But when it came back time for September for the opera and that he left her completely alone.

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You know, she did what she wanted to do.

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So it was a give and take relationship, which really worked very well for her.

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Was that an unusual kind of marriage for that time?

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I would think so.

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I think Ruth was an unusual woman for that time.

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You know, she was very up to date.

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Like she would have been in bikinis and that before anybody else was.

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I mean, she had no qualms about nudity or things like that.

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In fact, a funny story here, if you want to hear the bare facts about Ruth,

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is the fact that she had a suite on the 19th floor up here, which had a big terrace.

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And she would go out on the terrace, you know, in sunbathe.

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And she'd have these briefs on, you know, and a little bra.

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And shortly, a few minutes later, the bra would come off. Right.

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So on the 20th floor were the students, the dance students.

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And one would look out the window and go, oh my God.

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And he'd call up the rest of the dancers and they'd be hanging out the window looking at Ruth.

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I'm sure one day she just waved at them and said, hello, darling.

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But everybody got to know the bare facts about Ruth.

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It was the naked truth, I'll tell you.

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But she was wonderful about it. It was no embarrassment, nothing like that.

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Which is like today.

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There are stories about her walking around naked backstage a lot.

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Well, not backstage. I mean, you might knock at her dressing room door

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and you always assume that she took her clothes off and said, come in.

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She would always hold something against you.

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In fact, it was funny, I was up in a rehearsal room and I walked in and she said, oh,

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and she held something up, but she was standing behind this full mirror.

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So you got an eyeful, you were going like, oh.

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I said, I don't know quite what she was trying to hide, but she was wonderful that way.

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One day Orin was doing something and the top of his costume came and the bottom hadn't.

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And he was in a dance spell, a supporter, only doing this dance.

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And I'm going, Orin, what are you doing?

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And he said, Ruth made me do this.

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And he was dancing just a supporter in his shirt and a hat.

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He had a hat on, so he was well dressed.

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But it was things that I would never do.

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I've danced in briefs and things and she always, darling,

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you look better naked than in costumes.

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But.

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Talk a little more about Tom and his influence on the company.

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And on her. Did you like him?

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I get the sense a lot of people were sort of afraid of him.

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Well, I think Tom never Tom Fisher, her husband, I don't think ever really.

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Tried to make.

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Real friends. It was always sort of aloof, like management.

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I would say he was more like management, so he would come to my house for dinner

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and we'd have wonderful social times and that with Ruth and that.

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But it was still there was a distance between the two of you.

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And I think it was good for him because you couldn't slap him on the back

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and say, how about a raise or something like that.

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You just didn't do that with Tom, you know.

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But he was fun to be with socially and that.

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But Ruth was always the charmer. I mean, she really was.

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And she would do crazy things like we were in a restaurant one time

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and suddenly she turned to Patricia and she said, Darling,

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were you a virgin when you got married? And we all went.

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With our ears going, well, yes or no.

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And Orin turned to Ruth and she said, he said, Ruth,

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well, you were a virgin when you got married? She said, Heavens, no, darling.

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We said, well, was it Tom? And she said, Oh, it was another lawyer.

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Whether it was true or not, I mean, you didn't know.

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But it was funny when she would just say anything, you know.

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Do you have the sense then that she was ahead of her time?

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Oh, of course. I mean, Ruth was way ahead of her time.

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Just the way she dressed and did things.

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We would do lecture demonstrations.

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And one year she wore a George Little Art Fauntleroy outfit.

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It was really like George Washington. She used to have a white wig,

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those powdered wigs, and she'd have the knickers and the little frills

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and the black velvet and that. And she would come out

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and the kids in the schools would be shocked. I mean, not horrified,

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but they'd be shocked to see her come out like that.

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And she would start speaking and then all of a sudden one of the girls

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would raise her hand and say, Could I buy that somewhere?

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And she said, Well, I don't know whether Goldblatt has it or not.

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She said, But you could try. And naturally it was made in Europe

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or something for her. But she would do wonderful things.

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And so many other people lectured.

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And the people literally threw things on the stage.

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They didn't like it. The classical dry approach.

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And Ruth came on like gang boosters.

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She would say these things. Women's clubs we would do.

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And suddenly Ruth would have her dress up and she'd be doing all these steps

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and everybody would go, Oh!

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Because she'd show her legs or something, which were quite beautiful.

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But she would just go ahead and do it.

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And everybody adored her.

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Were you with her when she stopped dancing?

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Do you remember when she stopped dancing?

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Yes, we were playing Los Angeles and we were doing Susanna and the Barber.

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And Ruth and Bentley Stone were the talkers

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because they had a lot of...it was like a play.

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And then we were the silent lovers in that.

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And it was really at the end of Ruth's career, dance-wise.

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I mean she could still go on, but she was not that well received by it.

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They weren't that interested in that kind of thing.

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Plus we played a very large house,

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which would have been better like here in Pittsburgh.

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We have the Playhouse, which is an Int. Or Goodman theater in Chicago.

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That it would have been wonderful in those places.

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And I think it bothered Ruth and she just stopped after that.

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She just didn't dance after that.

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Really. But I mean she could still dance and that.

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But I think it just bothered her.

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Did you notice any change in her?

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Very little if there was.

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I think she always wanted to go on.

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So she lived through patricianon because

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Patty would perform with the same believability.

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The only difference was Ruth adored to hop on point.

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And Patty was a big girl and usually big girls do not like to hop on point.

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Because they have more weight than a little bitty one bouncing.

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And Ruth would hop, hop, hop, hop.

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Patty would go rrr.

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And Patty would try to cover it.

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Or I would try to say, Patty if you hop this way.

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Oh, well I changed my legs sort of, you know, it was much easier.

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So we got the same results.

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But Ruth adored to do things like that.

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And she loved to put forte turns in, which is multiple turns in that.

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Because I don't think Ruth really did them in her career.

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But she adored them.

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And she put them in everything.

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She would have certain tricks that she loved to do.

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She loved me, I was always off balance.

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I was always swinging this way or doing arabesque turns that way.

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And in her book she even says that she adored them.

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And it was a kind of, because I loved to do eventually.

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And I really came out in Ruth's company.

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I learned to express myself and become an acting dancer.

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I learned how to move an audience and to do these different roles.

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And so I got a kick out of it.

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I really lived these people night after night.

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Talk about what life was like on the road, the company traveling.

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Well one funny story was our first bus was not waterproof.

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So we had very bad weather and it rained.

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And I had the third seat on the bus and Ruth was the first seat.

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And the water came through like a waterfall.

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It came down the window. You couldn't sit there.

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It was like this. And I kept saying, Ruth, I'm getting wet back here.

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Ruth, I'm getting wet. We would scream or yell or something like that.

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And finally she said, oh, sit up here.

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So we switched seats.

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So she took her mink coat, jammed it in the window.

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And she's sitting there and she says, I don't know what he's complaining about.

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And I heard her and I said, well give me the mink and I'll sit back there.

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And she just saw all this water going.

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And then we had a bus driver that must have been 80 years old.

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And he'd want to stop every time or he was just cranky about everything.

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So the first tour was really hectic.

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And it was 17 weeks. We did four weeks and then we came back for Christmas.

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And then we did 10 weeks or 12, whatever it was.

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Anyway, it was an interesting story because my career was based on injuries.

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I was rude to Ruth.

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And Ruth was Ruth's second dancer.

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And the first dancer we had was George Skabeen and his wife Marjorie Tallchief.

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And we were going to play Cleveland, which was my hometown.

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And Ruth promised me I'd be able to do the lead in one of the ballets.

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That George was wonderful. He'd let me do it. Or a pas de deux.

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So the first few days out we didn't have a chance to rehearse or anything.

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And I believe it was Appleton, Pennsylvania.

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But it was in Pennsylvania the night before.

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So we arrived late at 6 o'clock. We could not have an orchestra rehearsal.

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We were going to do Ruth Sylvia pas de deux, which was Barbara Steele and myself and two cupids.

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So we finished the first ballet. We changed. We ran on stage.

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Well, everything went wrong. It was a disaster.

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Barbara lost her headdress the first thing. It was laying on the floor.

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The two cupids kept bumping into each other. It was a disaster.

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And Ruth came backstage and she said, you can't do it in Cleveland.

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You have to do your parts. And I said, what you said, I could dance one of the leads.

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And she said, well, darling, nobody can replace you.

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And my brother Irving, who's the famous heart surgeon, is going to be there.

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And you have to do it.

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Well, the next ballet was the Mary Widow. And I was furious.

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I thought, all right, Ruth. I said, my family's going to be there.

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I'm going to just do the second leads, which was wonderful.

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But I wanted to be the star in Cleveland.

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So out I went as Jolie Dunn.

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And I danced like I had so much energy in it.

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I was just puffing. And when I finished the first section, I was hanging on the trunk.

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And I was breathing and everything. And suddenly I see them carrying somebody.

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And they said, get the boy, get the boy.

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And I looked and it was Skabeen. He had done his variation.

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And he had sort of marked it.

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And he went for the last air turn and it was too late.

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And he fell and cut his Achilles tendon. It just rolled up.

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So out I went and I had to do the coda.

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Well, here I was as Jolie Dunn. I was supposed to be Danilo, which I'm sure.

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But I walked down on the stage and Ruth was in the front row.

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And she went, and I thought, oh my God, is she doing that because I'm on the stage or what?

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Well, she didn't budge. She wanted to see how the performance went.

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She didn't care what had happened, I guess.

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So I finished it and I said, get me the shirt. Get me the shirt.

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So they went and they went to Skabeen and they were tearing his shirt off.

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And I said, not that shirt. I want the Villier shirt for the pas de deux.

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I thought, oh my God, it looks like, OK, out to the park.

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There is clothes up and here he is laying there, you know.

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So they gave me the shirt and I ran over to Marjorie Tallchief and I said,

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what do you do here? Because Ruth would not let me learn their version.

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She said, you're the understudy for it, but you can't learn their version.

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I want you to do my version.

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And I thought, but if I have to go on, but she would never allow it.

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So I never could go to their rehearsal.

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So I went up to Marjorie and I said, what did you change?

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And I said, well, forget it. We're on. So out we went.

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And I was very good at partnering.

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So I just waited till she did something. Then I grabbed her or I lifted her.

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We had no problem.

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The next day, that night, we got onto a bus, which was another old bus.

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Pittsburgh and that is known for their hills.

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We started to go up a hill. The bus wouldn't make it.

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So out we all got. We all had to get out.

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There was Skabeen on the bus with the driver.

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The old costume women, Edie and May, are walking up the hill going,

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I think I'm dying. And the other one says, I'm having a heart attack.

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And here they are puffing going up this big hill.

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Well, fortunately at the top of the hill was a bar.

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The company just en masse went into the bar.

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Ruth screaming, we've got to get her to the hospital.

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We said, where do we finish our beer?

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So we took her to the hospital. We went into town. We checked in.

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We had a matinee the next day. I went to the orchestra rehearsal.

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And there I was in Cleveland, my hometown, starring in both ballets.

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Wonderful reviews. It was fantastic.

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So do you think Ruth would make me the star the next year?

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No. Next year she brought Oleg Bryansky.

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She said, darling, you're the understudy for Don Q, but don't learn it.

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That was basically what it was.

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First performance, Oleg Bryansky hurt himself.

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We should change tapes.

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Well, they're coming to arrest me for all this libel.

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Great. Okay, you want to start again. Next year I was understudy.