WEBVTT

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What is that?

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Oh, it doesn't.

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All it does is it makes the tape go into the slack mode so you can rewind it.

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You can rewind it when the tape's wrapped around the...

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Ah, I see.

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Did you do that?

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This is our 14th learning long interview.

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We're at the school of dance.

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This is 10, 20, 30.

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You mean it makes no sense to me?

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That's what Sony says.

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No, no, but there's...

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Oh, I see.

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It shivers.

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Yeah, this tape moves past the heads.

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That video cassette has the same amount of tape on it as a...

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as like a four and a half, five hour tape.

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We use it up in 20 minutes.

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Oh my God.

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Because it's spinning so fast and that's why you get such a high quality picture.

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Oh, I see, yeah.

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And so it's very important that it...

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What does the patty do?

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Dance for two.

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Ready?

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We were talking about Ruth and her feelings

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and I asked you if there were any instances you could recall when...

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I know of one that comes to mind.

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I think of it often.

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We were doing class at Bentley Stone Studio one time.

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And this was not very long before the end of the company,

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so it's not that long ago.

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And the class pianist was playing,

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I think it was a Schumann piece for the exercise.

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And in the middle of the exercise,

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Ruth burst into tears and dashed down the stairs to the second floor

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where the dressing rooms were.

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Mr. Stone was conducting class, couldn't go after her,

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so he motioned that I should go and see if Ruth was all right.

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So I did, and I went downstairs

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and she was sitting on a bench in the reception area,

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just crying her eyes out.

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Well, this was so unlike Ruth

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to be so...to show such a kind of vulnerability.

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So I went and sat beside her and I put my arms around her

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and I was, you know, just for a moment, just holding her.

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And then finally I said,

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Miss Page, what's the matter?

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Did you hurt yourself or what?

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And she said, oh, no.

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She said, my mother used to play that.

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My mother used to play that.

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And it was such a poignant moment.

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And the very next moment, the moment she'd said that,

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my mother used to play that,

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it was as though she had turned it off like that.

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And she went, I'll be perfectly all right.

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How silly of me. How silly of me.

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I'll be perfectly all right.

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You go right back up and finish the class.

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It was though, in that one moment,

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her defenses were down for whatever reason.

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And her insides just came out.

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And yet the moment that she had realized

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that she'd exposed something quite personal to her,

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she had to regain control and regain her control of the situation.

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Have you ever seen her like that again?

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Not quite like that. Not quite like that.

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I have seen her very, very, very pensive.

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Again, she will reveal a little bit and then pull it back

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and then take it back and make some kind of easy,

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flip little remark to kind of ease over the situation.

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When she was mugged and had to have the hip surgery,

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tell about that.

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Oh, that was absolutely, that was just awful.

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It happened twice, you know.

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And the first time was bad.

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The second time was absolutely really, really awful.

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She was in the hospital the second time.

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She'd had, I think there was something in her collarbone

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or shoulder or something that was either broken or fractured

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or something, that was very bad.

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And you know that almost the most devastating thing,

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I think, to Ruth about that was not actually the physical violence,

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but it was the realization to Ruth that there were people out there

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that could do something like this.

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You know, Ruth had been a very, very free spirit.

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Ruth would go anywhere. She knew no fear.

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Ruth was never afraid to encounter any kind of person in the world.

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Not at all. She has no conception of violence, I don't think.

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And I think it came as a total surprise to her that something like this,

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so senseless and so hurtful, could happen, that it happened to her

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or it could happen to anybody.

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I think it was totally out of her realm of experience

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to know that this kind of thing went on.

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She had no conception of how dangerous the real world is

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or how real the real world is, you know, from that point of view.

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Tell about the time when she was having the hip surgery

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and what she said to you about not being able to live.

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Oh, that was the most endearing thing in the world.

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When she went in for her hip surgery,

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we knew the day that she was having the surgery.

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And so the very next day, actually the day she had her surgery,

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I called the hospital because we had a student,

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an adult student at the school who was a nurse at the Wesley Pavilion

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or Passavant Pavilion.

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So I called and I said, how is Miss Page doing?

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And they said, well, she just came out of surgery.

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She's back in her room, but she's asleep.

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And I said, do you suppose I could just come over and see her?

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And the lady said, well, she's asleep.

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She won't know.

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And I said, it doesn't matter.

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I'd just like to see her.

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I want to see if she's all right or if she's...

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I just would like to see her.

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So I did.

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I went over and the nurse took me into the room,

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and all I had to do was look through the door

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and see that she was there and she was resting

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and she was pale, she looked so small.

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But I was satisfied to know that she was there.

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The next day, Dolores and I went regularly in visiting hours to see her,

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and she was actually sitting up in a chair the very next day.

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They were changing the linens on her bed,

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and her room was filled with flowers and with books

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and with her calendar marking down social things

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and what she had to do and where she was going to go,

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and she was very, very busy.

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And she was sitting in this chair,

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and we went in and kissed her and said,

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well, how are you doing?

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You look absolutely wonderful.

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We were surprised to see her sitting up.

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And she says, I just want you to know,

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I think this surgery was a disaster.

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And I said, what do you mean, a disaster?

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She says, well, it's just...

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It's pointless that I've had this at all.

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It's just a disaster.

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And I said, well, why?

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Why would you say that?

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I said, you had trouble walking.

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Your hip was really bothering you.

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Why would you say it was a disaster?

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She said, well, I'll never get my leg up here again.

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I'll be lucky if I get my leg at 90 degrees.

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I'm not going to be able to dance.

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What was the point in doing this if I can't dance again?

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And I thought to myself, now, there you are.

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That says...

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That's Ruth Page, you know?

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Here, she...

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Not an incredibly young lady.

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In age.

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Incredibly young in every other way.

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I was having a terrible time walking

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because of the deterioration in the hip and everything.

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And she just thinks it's a disaster

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because she won't be able to really dance again

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like she did before.

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And she won't get her leg up by her ear,

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only 90 degrees.

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And so it was a total failure.

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And I knew from that moment, she was going to be all right.

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She was going to be all right.

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Somebody else would spend a year getting out of bed.

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And as a matter of fact,

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she was, I think, 10 days in the hospital after the operation.

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She was two weeks at home, walking around.

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But at the end of that two weeks, like clockwork,

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she was into the school, walked up the stairs,

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walked into the ballet school and took a bar.

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This is 1982.

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This is 1982.

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She's 83 years old.

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83 years old.

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And this was two weeks, 14 days, plus 10,

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24 days after she had that operation,

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she was doing bar in the studio.

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At age 83.

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At age 83.

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Amazing.

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Now that tells us that's Ruth Page.

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Right there is the essence of Ruth Page.

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You know, she's written about you.

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That she wishes you were her son.

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She wrote a little piece about you and it ended with the line,

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I wish he were my son.

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What do you think she means?

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Well, I hope she means just that.

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Because that's exactly how I feel about Ruth.

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I feel about Ruth as though I were her son.

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I feel about Ruth.

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I feel about Ruth.

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I could fill a barrel with the things I feel about Ruth.

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But the most important thing I feel about Ruth is a kind of,

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in a funny way, a kinship.

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Ruth has done more, not in a material way,

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but in every other way, to make me,

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the man, the teacher, the dancer, whatever I am now,

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really relates more to Ruth than almost any other single,

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than any other single person.

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Not more than almost, but more than any other single person.

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Certainly more than my parents.

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I love my parents and my parents instill all kinds of things.

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But as a human being, you know, you take,

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you assume from people that you admire their attitudes,

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their outlook, their standards.

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And of all those things, all of those things that I have assumed,

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I trace back in one fashion or another to Ruth.

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Her insistence on excellence, her insistence on being original,

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not being derivative, but be your person, be yourself.

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That means a great deal to me.

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I hope it's reflected in my teaching,

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because all of those things go back to Ruth.

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And in a way I feel about her like I'm her son.

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And that's to me, it's an accolade that she would say that about me,

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that I hope one day I'll deserve.

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You once said to me, I wish she knew,

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I wish I thought she knew how much I love her.

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What did you mean?

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I think I mean all the things I just said.

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I wish she really knew what influence she's had.

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She's had influence on all of us, on all of us,

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on development of our taste, of our standards.

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I wish she knew that.

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You know, when you love your parents because of all the things

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they have sometimes unwittingly given you in growing up,

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well, I feel like I've had several stages of growing up.

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I had my growing up with my parents, I had my growing up with my teachers,

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the kind of growing up I hope I'm giving to somebody now who's a student.

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And then I had the rest of my growing up.

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And the rest of my growing up,

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which has taken longer than the first two altogether,

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has all been in the hands, as it were, of Ruth Page.

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And I wish she knew that,

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because that's the kind of love that you can't give back.

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You can't express that except in your life.

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That's how you, I think, that's how you show that love,

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is the way you live the rest of your life

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as a result of somebody's interface with you.

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And that's what I wish she knew.

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Why do you think she doesn't?

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Maybe she does. Maybe she does. I hope she does.

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It's not anything that I would say to her,

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and it's not anything she would ever say to me.

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But maybe she does. Maybe she does.

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It would be nice to think that she would know at this stage in her life

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how much she's done for you and how much she's shaped you,

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because it strikes me that if she has a real heir, you're it.

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Well, that's a big burden to be heir to, I must say.

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If she has an artistic heir, I would love to be it.

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And if I am it, I hope, because of what I've gotten from my years with Ruth,

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that that legacy is what will make me bear,

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will make me worthy of being the heir.

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So she will have created, really, the work,

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and she will have created the carry-on.

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Again, she's done it all.

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What do you think, Larry, do you ever think about what it will be like when Ruth is gone?

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The school will continue, I assume.

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It's endowed, and we know that the school will continue.

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It's hard to imagine this place with her not coming in every day for class.

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Do you think she thinks about it?

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Well, probably.

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I don't think she thinks about it in a morbid way, because I don't think she's a morbid thinker.

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I don't think that's not her way.

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I think that she does think about it, yes.

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I hope, I know, that as long as the school goes on, Ruth will be here,

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whether she's here or not, because she's the reason for everything.

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Ruth is the reason.

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Ruth is the catalyst that has made all of this happen.

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Not only all of this, but all of us.

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So as long as the school is here, and as long as we are here,

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Ruth is really going to be here.

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I don't think Ruth will ever leave the building.

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Ruth will, of course, whatever.

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But Ruth is here.

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The whole place is Ruth.

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Even the way we teach is Ruth.

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The things that we teach in the class are Ruth.

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Her legacy is all-encompassing here.

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I hope she knows it, because the feeling that Andre, her husband,

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that I was telling you, said to me, what she's afraid of is that when she dies,

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it will all end.

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You don't think that's right?

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No, I don't.

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No, I don't at all.

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As a matter of fact, I think like a lot of things,

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I just read a book about Pizarro, the painter.

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And of course, it's kind of a cliché story that Pizarro

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has hardly ever made enough to earn a living while he was painting.

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The moment he died, up went the value of the paintings.

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Well, in a way, I think when Ruth is no longer here,

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I think people then will divorce themselves from Ruth the personality

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and look at Ruth the work.

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Ruth is a very colorful woman, and sometimes, of course,

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that colors your perceptions of things.

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Well, when she's no longer there, and I hope it won't be for years yet,

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because she's got lots of things to do, when she is no longer there,

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I think that people will look not at Ruth the personality, but at Ruth the work,

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and then people will see, well, where was this wonderful woman all those years?

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Of course, she was here, vibrantly here, but it'll be seen.

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It will not disappear.

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Things like that don't disappear.