WEBVTT 1 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:33.600 Give off a sense of a joy in performing. 2 00:00:34.620 --> 00:00:35.860 And after really acting for a minute, 3 00:00:35.880 --> 00:00:38.920 it doesn't make you feel worse than you thought you'd do that. 4 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:39.480 Yes, yes. 5 00:00:39.800 --> 00:00:41.500 This is set number four. 6 00:00:41.720 --> 00:00:43.800 It's Freddie Franklin where it is a part of. 7 00:00:43.800 --> 00:00:45.760 It's 25 November, 85. 8 00:00:46.120 --> 00:00:48.480 This is for the Lone Productions. 9 00:00:48.760 --> 00:00:49.980 Lone Productions. 10 00:00:50.720 --> 00:00:51.880 And John Farnedy Video. 11 00:00:52.100 --> 00:00:52.860 This is channel one. 12 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:53.760 It's a recording microphone. 13 00:00:53.880 --> 00:00:55.820 Channel two is the tone of Zero VU. 14 00:00:55.820 --> 00:00:56.840 And it is what? 15 00:00:57.760 --> 00:00:58.400 Yes, we're ready. 16 00:00:58.400 --> 00:00:58.680 Okay. 17 00:00:59.380 --> 00:00:59.780 All right. 18 00:00:59.980 --> 00:01:00.060 Okay. 19 00:01:00.360 --> 00:01:00.680 Happy. 20 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:01.120 Good. 21 00:01:01.120 --> 00:01:01.380 Happy. 22 00:01:01.500 --> 00:01:02.460 I'm happy if you're happy. 23 00:01:03.460 --> 00:01:03.460 24 00:01:03.580 --> 00:01:05.480 Tell me about the partnership with Danilova. 25 00:01:05.640 --> 00:01:08.200 It strikes me that you were her in a way of... 26 00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:11.700 Well, it's strange since you put it that way. 27 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:14.900 Yes, it was rather like that. 28 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:23.020 I think coming, my coming into a life at the time was sort of, well, it's meant to be, 29 00:01:23.140 --> 00:01:23.440 I suppose. 30 00:01:23.520 --> 00:01:24.100 I don't know. 31 00:01:24.100 --> 00:01:34.860 But being 22, 23 when I first started with her, she was then dancing with Myasin. 32 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:36.940 And they were, Myasin and Danilova. 33 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:45.140 And he was getting a little tired of her because he wanted somebody younger. 34 00:01:45.880 --> 00:01:50.280 And she was feeling a little bit the same way as far as Myasin was concerned. 35 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:53.680 And this particular ballet, Gai de Parisienne, came along. 36 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:55.660 And that's really what started it. 37 00:01:56.380 --> 00:02:01.620 But, you know, as we grew older, it changed. 38 00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:03.740 At the very beginning, it wasn't easy for me. 39 00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:07.900 She said one of her first famous lines, she said to me, she said, 40 00:02:08.020 --> 00:02:10.920 Now, young man, now we are going to dance together. 41 00:02:10.940 --> 00:02:13.220 You must know where you fit in my curves. 42 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:17.060 Well, I thought, well, now, that's going to be, that's very nice indeed. 43 00:02:17.300 --> 00:02:19.300 And she said, I go in and come out and go in and come out. 44 00:02:19.300 --> 00:02:20.180 And she said, we must fit. 45 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:23.320 I thought, well, and I'm, my good little English upbringing, 46 00:02:23.420 --> 00:02:24.280 I thought, well, these are the Russians. 47 00:02:24.300 --> 00:02:25.140 This is what it is. 48 00:02:25.460 --> 00:02:27.880 And, you know, again, I love her madly and this and that and the other. 49 00:02:28.580 --> 00:02:31.800 And partnering her, you know, all the ballerinas are different. 50 00:02:31.860 --> 00:02:32.600 They're all different. 51 00:02:33.080 --> 00:02:34.280 There are no two bodies alike. 52 00:02:34.420 --> 00:02:35.600 You don't hold them this way, that way. 53 00:02:35.620 --> 00:02:38.260 You hold them whichever way they want or whichever way you can 54 00:02:38.260 --> 00:02:40.160 in order to make them look right. 55 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:42.140 So this is what it was. 56 00:02:42.160 --> 00:02:43.580 And I had to go through a long period. 57 00:02:43.600 --> 00:02:47.400 And there were many moments when she'd say, no, push, pull. 58 00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:50.200 And when she was in most difficulties, she'd screech in Russian. 59 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:54.020 So I had to learn Russian in order to get through on the stage with her. 60 00:02:54.260 --> 00:02:56.400 We were doing one ballet, Saratoga of Myasins. 61 00:02:57.960 --> 00:02:59.880 And we'd learned it very quickly. 62 00:03:00.780 --> 00:03:02.100 And we were doing a polka together. 63 00:03:02.180 --> 00:03:03.660 And she was on the other side of the stage. 64 00:03:04.060 --> 00:03:08.120 And I looked at her and I knew the ballet had evaporated. 65 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:10.000 It had gone from her mind. 66 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:11.560 The smile was radiant. 67 00:03:11.620 --> 00:03:13.400 She didn't know where she was. 68 00:03:13.820 --> 00:03:14.860 I came over. 69 00:03:14.900 --> 00:03:16.760 I did this and this and pushed and pulled. 70 00:03:16.760 --> 00:03:17.480 We went through. 71 00:03:17.920 --> 00:03:18.580 We got into wings. 72 00:03:18.760 --> 00:03:19.940 And I spoke to her. 73 00:03:20.360 --> 00:03:21.940 She gave me the business. 74 00:03:22.200 --> 00:03:23.480 Don't you speak to me on the stage. 75 00:03:23.660 --> 00:03:25.360 No, this and after all this, that and the other. 76 00:03:25.480 --> 00:03:26.060 And bang, bang, bang. 77 00:03:26.100 --> 00:03:26.780 I'm in tears. 78 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:27.860 But I've saved her. 79 00:03:27.860 --> 00:03:28.280 But never mind. 80 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:28.900 This is the Russians. 81 00:03:29.540 --> 00:03:34.100 So I go to the dressing room and I find out I'm asked to go to Madame Danilova's dressing room. 82 00:03:34.180 --> 00:03:34.640 So I went. 83 00:03:35.340 --> 00:03:37.420 And she said, Frednicka, I'm very sorry. 84 00:03:37.460 --> 00:03:37.980 I blow up. 85 00:03:38.060 --> 00:03:39.120 She's this, that and the other. 86 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:39.820 So and so forth. 87 00:03:39.860 --> 00:03:42.140 She said, now you can call me Chora. 88 00:03:42.680 --> 00:03:44.600 I was always Madame Danilova in those days. 89 00:03:45.060 --> 00:03:46.160 And I said, well, there we are. 90 00:03:46.160 --> 00:03:47.460 But that was it. 91 00:03:47.580 --> 00:03:53.020 And then I think it was that, that she relied on me on the stage a little more. 92 00:03:53.980 --> 00:03:56.380 And she grew to dancing with me. 93 00:03:56.540 --> 00:04:02.360 And then I would, she'd allow me to do certain things, certain nuances, certain things partnering with her, 94 00:04:02.480 --> 00:04:06.880 with this waltz in Gat of Parisienne that we did together for so long. 95 00:04:07.900 --> 00:04:09.420 And it grew out of that. 96 00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:12.760 And then I naturally became older. 97 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:15.400 And wiser, like we spoke before. 98 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:18.860 I knew more about what I was doing on the stage, dancing with her. 99 00:04:19.340 --> 00:04:20.660 More ballets were coming in. 100 00:04:20.660 --> 00:04:23.580 I was dancing with her with the, with the, with the, the meissing things. 101 00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:24.560 He was no longer on. 102 00:04:26.420 --> 00:04:30.540 And the, I suppose the management sort of thought, well, we're on to a good thing here. 103 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:33.280 These two go on the stage and they like them, bring the house down. 104 00:04:33.320 --> 00:04:39.140 And they were asking for Danilova Franklin, which was for me, here am I dancing with her. 105 00:04:39.180 --> 00:04:42.360 And this one lady that, when I was 14, whatever I was. 106 00:04:43.020 --> 00:04:43.820 And it grew. 107 00:04:43.820 --> 00:04:45.600 And we became friends. 108 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:50.420 It was a partnership that went beyond just the theatre. 109 00:04:51.460 --> 00:04:52.540 And it's like it is today. 110 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:54.340 We are just the same as we were. 111 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:56.040 I call her, we go and see each other. 112 00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:06.600 But what, what it was on the stage, I stood in the wings with Mark Everend and Anton Dolin and Leonid Meissing and her. 113 00:05:07.080 --> 00:05:12.060 And I learned what to do when I saw things going wrong for them. 114 00:05:12.520 --> 00:05:14.560 And what they did to cover up things. 115 00:05:14.960 --> 00:05:16.580 And that's, I stored all of this up. 116 00:05:16.900 --> 00:05:21.360 And I, I learned from her and learned with her on the stage. 117 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:28.740 And it was, she said, you know, Frendica, we, they like us because we have the same mentality about the ballet. 118 00:05:29.540 --> 00:05:31.680 Now, to me, that was an enormous compliment. 119 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:35.100 She'd been brought up in the Diaghilev era with all these marvelous people. 120 00:05:35.540 --> 00:05:40.700 And I thought, well, yes, I did have a little education in the ballet, but not, of course, what she had. 121 00:05:40.700 --> 00:05:50.680 And it was, it was, we met sort of not only emotionally and technically, but we met in a sort of an intellectual way on the stage, 122 00:05:51.940 --> 00:05:56.400 which doesn't generally happen with, with dancers, with partners like this. 123 00:05:56.560 --> 00:05:59.320 So we could discuss other things. 124 00:05:59.500 --> 00:06:03.260 It was, I always remember she said to me, you were brought up in theatre. 125 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:04.540 I said, well, sure, yes. 126 00:06:04.900 --> 00:06:07.160 I mean, as a little boy, we were taken to the pantomimes. 127 00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:11.720 Or my mother and father were very theatre minded people. 128 00:06:11.820 --> 00:06:13.820 My sister and brother were taken and so was I. 129 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:15.280 I grew up in the theatre. 130 00:06:15.340 --> 00:06:18.540 The very first thing I ever saw was Peter Pan. 131 00:06:18.740 --> 00:06:21.500 Well, I came home, jumped off the beds hoping I could fly. 132 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:23.340 And all that sort of business went on. 133 00:06:23.760 --> 00:06:24.620 But it was the theatre. 134 00:06:24.640 --> 00:06:27.140 And I knew as a little boy that said, well, what are you going to be? 135 00:06:27.180 --> 00:06:28.540 I said, I'm going to be in the theatre. 136 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:31.300 It was there right from the beginning with me. 137 00:06:31.300 --> 00:06:36.180 So it was that theatrical thing that I had in me that she had. 138 00:06:36.500 --> 00:06:39.380 And it was the personality that absolutely fused on the stage. 139 00:06:39.880 --> 00:06:45.080 She was a wonderful, she did many things, of course. 140 00:06:45.380 --> 00:06:47.780 Her personality, like that, was very bubbly. 141 00:06:48.220 --> 00:06:50.040 It was, it could be very dramatic if necessary. 142 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:58.420 But the basis of that partnership was the sameness of us being together on the stage, 143 00:06:58.420 --> 00:07:03.280 thinking the same way, having the outgoing thing, 144 00:07:03.300 --> 00:07:09.140 which you mentioned about the stage actors that have this walk on the stage, 145 00:07:09.620 --> 00:07:10.620 and there's somebody there. 146 00:07:11.420 --> 00:07:12.800 And I learned all of this. 147 00:07:13.080 --> 00:07:15.160 And I suppose I must have had it naturally also, 148 00:07:15.180 --> 00:07:16.540 or it wouldn't have come out. 149 00:07:16.940 --> 00:07:18.680 But this was this partnership. 150 00:07:18.840 --> 00:07:21.800 And now that we see each other, very often we go back. 151 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:24.720 And she said to me one day, she said, you know, 152 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:28.580 I pity the people that have to do the Getty Paraisie and this waltz. 153 00:07:28.620 --> 00:07:31.080 She said it took us years to perfect it. 154 00:07:31.740 --> 00:07:32.880 And we did it. 155 00:07:33.220 --> 00:07:36.560 And you see the other dancers doing it, it's hard, it's difficult. 156 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:41.580 But it's that constant working, talking, everything, 157 00:07:41.760 --> 00:07:44.060 that made it the lovely partnership that it was. 158 00:07:45.140 --> 00:07:45.720 Bless our heart. 159 00:07:46.500 --> 00:07:49.360 It must have been very difficult for her when she had to stop dancing. 160 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:55.800 Well, she was one of the few people that didn't cross over the bridge nicely. 161 00:07:56.300 --> 00:07:59.060 Funny thing to say, but it was hard. 162 00:07:59.340 --> 00:08:00.420 It was very difficult. 163 00:08:02.900 --> 00:08:06.740 There wasn't anything happening in her life other than dancing. 164 00:08:08.520 --> 00:08:13.280 She's now found it, because when Mr. Banasin asked her to go to the school here, 165 00:08:13.520 --> 00:08:16.160 she was not in so much as a teacher but as a wonderful coach. 166 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:18.960 And this is what she does marvelously for the girls. 167 00:08:18.960 --> 00:08:20.360 She teaches very well, of course. 168 00:08:20.660 --> 00:08:25.020 But the prime, her prime asset to that school is what she can give them, 169 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:27.500 as a ballerina, prima, you know, 170 00:08:27.500 --> 00:08:31.580 so that they're getting the good stuff right from the word go. 171 00:08:32.260 --> 00:08:33.660 But it was difficult for her. 172 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:36.540 I crossed over better. 173 00:08:37.560 --> 00:08:45.220 There are roles, which I'm still doing, that for a dancer, for a man, 174 00:08:45.740 --> 00:08:50.300 like a Dr. Copelius, and I enjoyed doing it. 175 00:08:50.400 --> 00:08:54.340 Now I'm doing, there's a wonderful part in La Sylphide, Madge, the Witch. 176 00:08:54.400 --> 00:08:55.420 Well, I'm on doing that. 177 00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:58.760 And I've got those roles, and I still do them. 178 00:08:58.760 --> 00:08:59.500 I like performing. 179 00:08:59.880 --> 00:09:02.220 I still, whenever they ask me, I'll go on and do it, you know. 180 00:09:04.060 --> 00:09:08.480 And then I've had ballet companies, but Jula hasn't had that. 181 00:09:11.560 --> 00:09:12.980 It just wasn't there for her. 182 00:09:12.980 --> 00:09:16.340 You know, ladies didn't take over ballet companies. 183 00:09:16.460 --> 00:09:17.660 Only men did, you see. 184 00:09:18.420 --> 00:09:21.880 And I think she'd have been wonderful, supposing an opportunity had come along. 185 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:25.740 You see, when I was the maître de ballet, she was the prima ballerina, 186 00:09:25.780 --> 00:09:29.340 and I was the premier dancer, but she was there. 187 00:09:30.160 --> 00:09:32.660 She was the top of the company as one of the ladies. 188 00:09:33.140 --> 00:09:36.620 So it would not have been interesting for her to come with me to go to the rehearsals, 189 00:09:36.660 --> 00:09:38.300 to push this, to mount the ballets. 190 00:09:38.580 --> 00:09:39.840 Consequently, she didn't know them. 191 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:42.480 She did what she knew. She did, of course. 192 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:46.620 So she hadn't got that background, like many of the dancers I haven't had. 193 00:09:46.800 --> 00:09:51.500 I was, you know, to be one thing, to be a great dancer is one thing, 194 00:09:51.500 --> 00:09:54.840 but to get in front of a lot of kids and start rehearsing them 195 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:57.860 and manipulating them around and staging ballets, that's something else. 196 00:09:58.140 --> 00:10:02.000 It's a whole new ball game, as they say, and it's another kind of talent. 197 00:10:02.700 --> 00:10:04.420 If you don't have it, then you're no good at it. 198 00:10:04.420 --> 00:10:05.380 You know, you can't do it. 199 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:08.820 So I was very, again, touched the word, very fortunate that I had this. 200 00:10:08.820 --> 00:10:12.620 Or people saw in me that I could do it, which is what I'm doing today. 201 00:10:13.500 --> 00:10:16.460 But she's fine. She's down there. We see each other. 202 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:21.840 She may be a little slow, a little hunched over, but the tongue is still the same. 203 00:10:21.980 --> 00:10:24.740 She still says lots of wonderful things about all the dancers. 204 00:10:26.100 --> 00:10:27.500 But she's fine. 205 00:10:28.220 --> 00:10:36.540 For yourself, was there a time when you knew, a specific time when you said to yourself... 206 00:10:36.540 --> 00:10:37.620 Oh, yes. Oh, yes. 207 00:10:37.620 --> 00:10:41.460 Now, I was fortunate. I was dancing all the biggies up until I was 44, 208 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:43.140 really the big hard rolls. 209 00:10:43.640 --> 00:10:46.860 But I found there were nights when it was more difficult. 210 00:10:47.380 --> 00:10:49.500 There were nights when things didn't go well. 211 00:10:50.160 --> 00:10:52.580 There were nights when I thought I wish I'd never done that performance. 212 00:10:52.700 --> 00:10:54.520 And then there were other nights when I thought, 213 00:10:54.860 --> 00:10:56.580 my goodness me, it's just like I was when I was younger. 214 00:10:57.540 --> 00:10:59.880 But you know, this tells you. 215 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:01.760 It tells you when it's time. 216 00:11:02.460 --> 00:11:06.200 And it's an awful moment because you think, 217 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:08.680 oh, goodness me, and it's so short. 218 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:11.600 I mean, I was one of the lucky ones, 44. 219 00:11:12.080 --> 00:11:14.620 I mean, there's Rudolph flying around. 220 00:11:14.740 --> 00:11:16.900 I don't know what he's doing at the minute, but he's still doing it. 221 00:11:17.040 --> 00:11:19.640 But it doesn't, you know, it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. 222 00:11:20.040 --> 00:11:23.900 And it's just having the sense to know, know more. 223 00:11:24.580 --> 00:11:27.080 And I fortunately did have, although it was hard. 224 00:11:27.520 --> 00:11:30.520 Yet I had other things on my mind, ballets, companies. 225 00:11:32.040 --> 00:11:32.580 You know what? 226 00:11:32.580 --> 00:11:36.820 I just wanted to be connected and be in the theatre. 227 00:11:37.380 --> 00:11:40.380 I didn't want to be a teacher, don't we? 228 00:11:41.100 --> 00:11:42.740 But you loved performing. 229 00:11:44.180 --> 00:11:45.220 Yes, indeed. 230 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:50.160 And that was difficult. It was hard. 231 00:11:50.340 --> 00:11:54.260 But then when I had the National Ballet and I staged Gopalia, 232 00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:59.080 then I found myself on the stage again, doing something so different 233 00:11:59.080 --> 00:12:03.340 and finding marvellous, as the old man, marvellous things to do, 234 00:12:03.780 --> 00:12:08.100 like I found in the ballets, like in the Gaito Parisiens 235 00:12:08.100 --> 00:12:11.120 or in this whenever I was dancing, to find new ways of doing things. 236 00:12:11.280 --> 00:12:14.620 When you dance a ballet like we did for every night for, 237 00:12:14.760 --> 00:12:17.680 God knows how many years, you can't go and do the same thing every night. 238 00:12:17.700 --> 00:12:19.800 You've got to find ways. It's like an actor or an actress. 239 00:12:20.680 --> 00:12:22.040 So I was finding ways with Gopalia. 240 00:12:22.040 --> 00:12:25.920 And my Gopalia now is very different from what it was 12 years ago, 241 00:12:26.300 --> 00:12:28.340 14, 15 years ago when I was first doing it. 242 00:12:28.340 --> 00:12:33.400 So one can grow, you know, and I've never stopped growing in these roles. 243 00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:38.080 And it's like with anybody, it's like reviving, 244 00:12:38.260 --> 00:12:40.080 when we've done Frankie and Johnny with Ruth. 245 00:12:41.140 --> 00:12:43.320 I've shown him this and Ruth's forgotten all that. 246 00:12:43.460 --> 00:12:44.800 She'll be, you remember you did this and I did this. 247 00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:50.200 And she knew it's a different approach now, even the staging of the things. 248 00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:53.420 And that was the marvellous thing with Ruth. 249 00:12:54.420 --> 00:12:57.920 The day I called her for this ballet, dear, dear. 250 00:12:58.480 --> 00:12:59.480 Oh, she was very upset. 251 00:13:00.640 --> 00:13:02.880 Frankie and Johnny, 1976, right? 252 00:13:03.820 --> 00:13:06.640 Hasn't been in anybody's repertoire for a long time. 253 00:13:07.060 --> 00:13:11.400 Lottie Falk, the great president of the Pittsburgh Ballet. 254 00:13:11.780 --> 00:13:14.660 Desperate, 1976, we don't have an American ballet. 255 00:13:15.040 --> 00:13:17.040 I went home, I said, oh, but we do. 256 00:13:17.540 --> 00:13:21.160 She said, which one? I said, Frankie and Johnny. 257 00:13:21.680 --> 00:13:23.860 Oh, fresh, it's a wonderful idea. 258 00:13:24.500 --> 00:13:26.820 Get on to Ruth. I got on to Ruth. 259 00:13:27.140 --> 00:13:29.400 Dear me, did I get it on the other end of the phone. 260 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:32.100 Oh, she said, why do you want to revive that old thing? 261 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:36.940 I've got other ballet. I said, Ruth, dear, if you'll say yes, we're doing it. 262 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:39.080 Well, do you remember it? I said, little. 263 00:13:39.320 --> 00:13:40.740 What about you? Little, little. 264 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:43.280 I said, well, come to Pittsburgh. 265 00:13:44.620 --> 00:13:49.360 She arrived with the big music where everything is written over 266 00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:54.700 in her own marvelous handwriting, describing steps like the French twist 267 00:13:54.700 --> 00:13:57.620 and cook two kicks to the head, not the actual names. 268 00:13:58.160 --> 00:14:02.120 Then we had to fathom all of this out with the music. 269 00:14:02.780 --> 00:14:05.240 It was teeth time, pulling time. 270 00:14:05.760 --> 00:14:10.380 It was, and the more she kept looking at me, the more she looked, the worse it got. 271 00:14:10.540 --> 00:14:13.580 She said, what are we doing, Frankie? We'll never get, I said, we'll get this right. 272 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:16.120 Well, we did. We got it right. 273 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:19.000 It was a big smash hit. 274 00:14:20.040 --> 00:14:23.840 I said, Ruth, she's, well, how can I thank you? You don't have to thank me. 275 00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:26.040 I said, Ruth, this was always a marvelous ballet. 276 00:14:26.880 --> 00:14:28.820 Well, it's still in existence. 277 00:14:29.580 --> 00:14:31.800 It's still being done and it will be done. 278 00:14:32.140 --> 00:14:34.860 And this was getting it back with her and getting it back. 279 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:38.680 She went right back and she got up and did a lot of the stuff. 280 00:14:38.780 --> 00:14:43.840 This is what, it's what, 15 years ago, a friend of 10 years ago, 76, yes. 281 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:46.000 And she was different then. 282 00:14:46.100 --> 00:14:49.320 She was able to move around and she'd get up and show the steps 283 00:14:49.320 --> 00:14:52.280 and shout at the ladies who were doing her part. 284 00:14:53.160 --> 00:14:55.800 But she was marvelous. 285 00:14:56.560 --> 00:14:58.220 She has that old fire. 286 00:14:59.100 --> 00:15:01.860 She had all of that and she knew I had it. 287 00:15:02.280 --> 00:15:06.140 And as much she cursed me at the beginning, she was, at the end it was fine. 288 00:15:06.300 --> 00:15:07.800 She was having a good time. 289 00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:10.800 And so was I. And then, of course, the next thing. 290 00:15:11.280 --> 00:15:12.940 What do you think about Billy Sunney? 291 00:15:12.940 --> 00:15:14.560 I said, Ruth, dear. 292 00:15:15.220 --> 00:15:16.500 No, she will do it. She will do the part. 293 00:15:16.560 --> 00:15:17.640 I said, no. 294 00:15:18.420 --> 00:15:19.300 I said, I'm too old. 295 00:15:19.420 --> 00:15:22.980 I can't skip up and down off that rostrum and preach songs 296 00:15:22.980 --> 00:15:24.420 and dance all those babbies. 297 00:15:25.100 --> 00:15:27.380 So what about putting it on? 298 00:15:27.380 --> 00:15:28.800 We had a funny old movie. 299 00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:31.060 Well, we had a funny old movie of Frankie and Johnny. 300 00:15:32.520 --> 00:15:36.480 A very funny old movie that was done in Paris, but no sound. 301 00:15:37.680 --> 00:15:41.360 So, I mean, then we had to make those steps fit with the music. 302 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:42.920 And sometimes it didn't work. 303 00:15:43.560 --> 00:15:48.880 And we had a pianist, fortunately, and it was, you know, very difficult to make. 304 00:15:49.280 --> 00:15:52.100 Teach the kids and then say, no, go look at it. 305 00:15:52.220 --> 00:15:55.860 Now come back. And then I'd say, no, it's got to fit to this piece of music. 306 00:15:57.180 --> 00:16:00.500 Well, half the time, you know, then there's lots of stuff went on 307 00:16:00.500 --> 00:16:02.940 and lots of choreographic changes went on, not too much. 308 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:04.080 But it did eventually. 309 00:16:04.220 --> 00:16:08.980 But with Billy, this was really something else because we had to have a new score. 310 00:16:08.980 --> 00:16:10.400 Wait, start again with Billy. 311 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:13.780 How much time do we have left on this? 312 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:15.580 We have four minutes. 313 00:16:16.140 --> 00:16:17.380 Four minutes. Okay. 314 00:16:17.700 --> 00:16:18.340 Beginning of Billy. 315 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:23.200 Start with the first Billy and then we'll go back and we'll do the bow. 316 00:16:24.220 --> 00:16:25.200 The first Billy. 317 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:25.360 318 00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:25.480 319 00:16:25.540 --> 00:16:26.300 She came with the Ballet Russe. 320 00:16:26.300 --> 00:16:27.540 With the Ballet Russe to Monte Carlo. 321 00:16:28.100 --> 00:16:28.580 Again, yes. 322 00:16:29.340 --> 00:16:31.200 Now, which was in 1948. 323 00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:35.140 This time, Miss Page, well, whenever Miss Page arrived, 324 00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:37.080 we always knew we were in for something, which was lovely. 325 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:41.960 Well, just by the way, the girls in the company adored Ruth Page, 326 00:16:42.740 --> 00:16:45.680 apart from what she did as a choreographer, because she dressed so well. 327 00:16:46.380 --> 00:16:49.860 So the next thing I would hear, they'd always invite her to dress. 328 00:16:50.060 --> 00:16:53.420 The next thing I would hear would be, she's got Dior. 329 00:16:53.520 --> 00:16:55.040 I've never seen dresses by Dior. 330 00:16:55.060 --> 00:16:57.180 They'd go look at the labels and all of her clothes. 331 00:16:57.560 --> 00:16:58.460 And this was the beginning. 332 00:16:58.560 --> 00:17:00.440 Then she started reading her, this is the first dress. 333 00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:01.940 Look, here is your script. 334 00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:03.840 I said, Ruth, what are these? 335 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.780 She said, this is what you say in my ballet. 336 00:17:08.800 --> 00:17:09.860 I said, I'm going to talk. 337 00:17:10.700 --> 00:17:11.560 Well, she said, of course. 338 00:17:11.760 --> 00:17:12.520 Did you know who Billy is? 339 00:17:12.540 --> 00:17:14.100 I said, I've never heard of this gentleman. 340 00:17:14.600 --> 00:17:18.500 Well, from then on, she told me, she gave me the script. 341 00:17:18.600 --> 00:17:20.200 Now, we're on the road, mind you. 342 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:22.100 We're on the one night stands. 343 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:25.480 So I learned my script, I learned all my business. 344 00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:30.200 And she described the ballet risque, again. 345 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:31.520 I said, well, Ruth, here we go. 346 00:17:31.520 --> 00:17:33.900 Well, you know, when I'm here, this is the way it's going to be. 347 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:38.480 Well, now she said, you've got to have a Midwest accent. 348 00:17:38.600 --> 00:17:39.440 I said, well, all right. 349 00:17:39.540 --> 00:17:42.280 So she absolutely coached me. 350 00:17:42.820 --> 00:17:44.760 And Temptation is the Devil and all that came out. 351 00:17:44.860 --> 00:17:49.520 My big first speech, it was a marvelous ballet with Ruthanna. 352 00:17:49.540 --> 00:17:52.380 Ruthanna, again, she was Bathsheba. 353 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:56.260 There was Miss Daniella as Mrs. Pot was something else. 354 00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:00.560 And me as Joseph with the coat of many colors. 355 00:18:00.560 --> 00:18:02.880 And there was a wonderful line she had. 356 00:18:03.040 --> 00:18:03.980 You know, Shura had to speak. 357 00:18:04.080 --> 00:18:04.720 Shura died. 358 00:18:04.780 --> 00:18:05.840 She had to speak also. 359 00:18:06.320 --> 00:18:07.820 So we'd been rehearsing and this would come. 360 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:11.720 So Shura said to me one day, you know, there's one line I'm not like. 361 00:18:11.860 --> 00:18:12.960 I said, well, Shura, what is it? 362 00:18:12.980 --> 00:18:17.220 She said, you know, I have to say, I bake biscuits with my very old hands. 363 00:18:17.780 --> 00:18:19.680 I said, Shura, no, not old. 364 00:18:20.500 --> 00:18:20.720 Own. 365 00:18:21.060 --> 00:18:22.280 She, what it mean own? 366 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:23.300 I said, yours. 367 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:25.540 She said, I didn't like old hands. 368 00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:27.120 I said, it's not so. 369 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:28.780 And this was going on. 370 00:18:28.780 --> 00:18:30.780 But we went through the rehearsals. 371 00:18:32.120 --> 00:18:33.080 We came to New York. 372 00:18:33.660 --> 00:18:34.100 We opened. 373 00:18:34.260 --> 00:18:35.100 The press was good. 374 00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:38.220 But it was very controversial again, as always with her ballets. 375 00:18:39.160 --> 00:18:45.040 Well, one night the curtain goes up and there's our line of white collars. 376 00:18:45.800 --> 00:18:47.380 All Vickers priests, all this. 377 00:18:47.580 --> 00:18:48.740 Look, I thought, what? 378 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:48.880 379 00:18:48.980 --> 00:18:50.080 Now what am I going to do? 380 00:18:50.220 --> 00:18:52.020 They're the real thing down there. 381 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:54.180 And I gave a performance like that. 382 00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:55.080 I really went mad. 383 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:58.040 I really was more of a preacher than I've ever been in my life. 384 00:18:58.040 --> 00:19:01.180 I was terrified of all those white collars in front of me. 385 00:19:01.460 --> 00:19:02.540 But we did it. 386 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:05.640 And I had a wonderful distinction one night. 387 00:19:06.120 --> 00:19:07.420 I did Billy Sunday. 388 00:19:08.180 --> 00:19:11.900 And then I did Albrecht and Gisele on one program. 389 00:19:12.420 --> 00:19:13.000 Oh, my. 390 00:19:13.020 --> 00:19:16.620 So as they said, the gamut went from A to B or whatever it was. 391 00:19:17.840 --> 00:19:18.620 So that was it. 392 00:19:18.940 --> 00:19:21.140 And we had Louis Bramfield was in the audience. 393 00:19:21.980 --> 00:19:26.080 And there were, I had, we had wonderful press from the drama critics. 394 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:30.220 We had the drama critics in as well as the dance critics for this ballet. 395 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:39.140 So it was another great notch up for me, you see, to go to be an actor as I had trained and had elucution in it all that. 396 00:19:39.340 --> 00:19:43.580 So it was another facet of that personality of mine, which was again, which was Ruth. 397 00:19:44.420 --> 00:19:48.200 So it was another, she brought out these things in all of us. 398 00:19:48.520 --> 00:19:50.020 But then we came to the bells. 399 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:51.620 Maybe that'll be on the next one.