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Mr. Dolin. And right from the beginning it was Alicia with her. It was very strange.

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It was, all that beginning was so interesting. The Mark of Dolin Ballet Company. That was

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1935 until 1937. Sorry. Well, the thing was before then, you see, in 1931, 1932,

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what was known as the Freer. Are we rolling? Yes. It is nice. Okay. You're with the Mark

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of Dolin Ballet Company. Right. It's 1935, 1936. That's the beginning, 1935, 1936. Now,

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the reason that ballet company was formed, Alicia had danced with the Vic Wells. It then became the

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Sadler's Wells. And in the meantime, there was a young dancer coming along by the name of Peggy

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Hookham. Now, I know there's a strange look on your face, but she eventually became Margot

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Fontaine. And she was coming along and coming up. And Alicia had said, Alicia wanted to broaden

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her horizons and she felt she should get out into the world and get into, and so she formed her own

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ballet company with Mr. Dolin. And a lot of very good English dancers went into it. I was one of

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them, Wendy. We all went in with them. I was a soloist. And there was really a very nice thing

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happened. Just before we opened, there's a ballet called Carnival. And the young man that was

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dancing this, something went wrong. I don't know with the contract. Anyway, he left the company.

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And Mr. Dolin gave me the part. Now, this is an opening night. We were again in Leeds, the famous

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Leeds. And it was with Alicia. And it went very well, apparently. And then the management came

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to me after and said, Mr. Franklin, your salary is going to be augmented. You're now, and that's

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when Mr. Dolin said, you're going to be my understudy. I said, well, thank you very much. So I

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really made my debut into the ballet, dancing this big role that Nijinsky had danced and many

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other people had danced with Alicia Markova. So that was my debut into the world of the ballet.

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Lovely. And then I danced other things. And I had the experience of working with Madame Nijinsky.

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Oh, my. Tell us about that.

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Well, oh, there was a lady that came. She, we were terrified. We'd heard frightening stories about

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her. She was a very imperious Russian lady. And she arrived and she wore, it was not very sort of

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proper in those days for ladies to wear trousers in the rehearsal rooms. She came with her trousers,

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navy blue, a navy blue smock and white kink gloves and a long cigarette holder. And she looked around

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and she spoke no English. She spoke French a little and Russian. So the French and the Russian

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were all mixed up. And in essence, she said, well, I don't really like English dances. But she said,

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I'm here because of Mr. Dolin and Miss Markova, who she'd worked with in the Junkies Ballet. Well,

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and then she said, now, all the boys will go on one side of the room. And all the girls will go on

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the other side of the room. No newspapers, no knitting, no books. Now, she said, if I'm not

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interesting enough to watch, get out. Now this is how it was. So it started that way. There she was

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also she was doing two or three ballets and one of them was the second act of Nutcracker. And I was

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then doing the trepac as a solo. So she said, where's the boy that does the trepac? So I went

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out. By this time, I'm all of just 20. And I went through it and she said, now we'll begin.

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So I was one hour, two pairs of boots out, finished, worn out. The kids were all, I was getting

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whiter and thinner by the moment. And we did this over and over. And I thought, well, that's it.

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One more time, we went through it. And we had a lady, a Russian pianist. And she turned to,

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a panther, she said, now I have made real Russian out of him. And Mrs. Fox told me this. And I said,

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oh my goodness me. And from then on, we had a wonderful, and I danced many of her things

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after that. What would she like to work with? Wonderful, very demanding. But oh, a great

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stylist of a lady, she showed you what she wanted. And she was going deaf. And with the rhythm, she'd

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come and pounce on your shoulder and give you the rhythm on top that she wanted you to do.

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And just to be in her presence, of course, all we could think of was her brother, Nijinsky.

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Just looking at her thinking, my goodness me, this is the sister of the famous gentleman.

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But we got there. She liked us at the end. She said we were a very good ballet company. We had

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lovely dancers. We all ended really rather nicely. But out of all of that, my famous tray pack,

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I think, on the closing night of the summer season, the Ballets Russes de Monte Carlo were in town.

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That was the one with Danilova and Mersin and all the Baronovas and all those people.

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And they came to the performance. Mark Koval was out and then Chinova, another ballerina, was in.

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And we did two ballets and a set of duvetsis, a set of soros. And Mr. Dolin very nicely gave me

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my tray pack to do. Well, by that time, I got my gallery girls shouting for me, which was lovely.

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And I had an enormous success. And Mersin was in the audience. And he sent Zoric around with a note.

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And it said, please call me nine o'clock tomorrow morning, Sunday morning.

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And I was the great Leonid Mersin. I got the note. I called him the next morning. I sat in a chair

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here and he sat there. And I looked at him. I looked into his eyes and I signed for five

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years with the new ballet company as a premier dancer. And that was the end of the Marko

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Adolin ballet. I had another season to do. And it finished because Alicia had signed also with this

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new ballet company. But Mr. Dolin, no. And of course, he never forgave us. He said, we closed

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his company, which we never did, of course, but he said, but we remained friends, of course,

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all the way through. I think he was a little upset that they hadn't invited him, but they wanted

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me. Yassin wanted me. So that was a very important part of my life. And also knowing that I'd come

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here to America. Because you knew they would come. Oh, I knew it. And this is where I'd...

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To backtrack, when I was at the casino, there were a lot of Americans, a lot of American performers

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in the shows. And 29, 31, the talkies were with us. And we really didn't believe American people

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spoke the way they did in the movies. We really didn't believe it. So I used to go stand outside

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the dressing room door and listen to them. And they caught me. And then I said, but you really

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speak like the movies. They said, well, of course we do. And I became very friendly with them. And

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that's when it all started with me. I thought, I want to get to that country. I must get there

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somehow. Little dreaming that as a ballet dancer, I'd be coming here. And that's how it all came

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together in a really rather wonderful way. Did you have the sense, I mean, then when you think about

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Nijinska as a choreographer, I mean, nowadays, I think we almost might think of her as the greater

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of the two in the family. I mean, I don't know. What do you think about that?

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Well, you know, the thing is, yes, because it's funny if I was talking with Madam Danilo the

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other day about this and she said, you know, Frednicka, after all, what Nijinska left behind

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was so much more than what her brother did. The brother had fame as a dancer. Now she was a very

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good dancer, a very good, but always was in the shadow as a dancer, but as a choreographer,

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leaving what she has left. Oh, no, she finally, fate was very good for her, very kind. She came out.

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She was there, you know, she has left and she's been the most,

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his name will be known to some. But these days, you know, you can mention some of the dancers,

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the dancers don't read these days. They just don't know their art. They don't bother. You can mention

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Nijinska or Pavlov and they go, who? You know, they're not very sure, but she, with her bad,

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is now being performed. You know of her, you see. So that's, um. Did you ever see Nijinska dance?

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I wasn't old enough. No, I was too young. He stopped dancing. He stopped dancing in 1919.

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It was the end of it all. You know, he came on. It began, it began then and he came and it was later,

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but I met him. Oh, tell about that. Well, we were at the Met, the old Met and we were doing a

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performance of Petrushka and Myasin was the, was the moor. No, I was the moor and Myasin was

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Petrushka, Danilov was the ballerina and we were told that Romula Nijinska and her husband were

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going to be put in a box and they were trying to revive his mind again and he sat, they brought him

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on the stage and it was, oh, it was sad. We stood there and it was a man that didn't know anything

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and he just, he just walked, we just walked by and his eyes were glassy and it, it was very,

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it really wasn't right. It really wasn't right and he's smiling in a rather inane sort of way

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and he looked to his wife, you know, but it was oldie, you know. It wasn't, it wasn't a happy

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thing. Of course he got a lot of publicity and the next thing you know he's in the sanatorium in

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Switzerland and that's where he died. So it was all eventful but not very sort of forthcoming

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with anything. So you joined the Ballet. Then I joined the Ballet, Mr Monte Carlo

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and came here, did a horrendous tour. Horrendous because? Six, well we were six months with 110

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cities and God knows how many one night stands but I loved it. I was in America, we danced at the

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old, the marvelous thing was we danced at the Met. We had a wonderful season and the next thing we

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know we're going to a place called White Plains. So we get in the bus to go there. Now remember

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there are like 22 nationalities. Alicia and I speak English. I'm the only English speaking

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member in the company. They're all like this wealth. We drive up to a school. So Markova

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very British, perhaps the driver, says young man this isn't the place where the Ballet of Mr Monte

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Carlo. We're going to dance in a theatre. He said madam this is it and for the first time after the

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Met we sat behind desks and made up. Oh dear. And we're coming to this great country. Where are the

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theatres? Well we found out there were not that many and we traveled the length and breadth of

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states all over and I was telling Tom we get into Phoenix Arizona. Well they've never heard of the

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Ballet. They don't know what it's all about. So Mr Hurrah puts Markova, Danilov, Uschkevich and me

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in a cart drawn by horses with guns and we're driving around this little town shooting off

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guns and come to see the ballet tonight and the guns are gone. I never handed pistol. Can you

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imagine the ballerinas firing these things off of me? I mean we did things like this to get the

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public in. I mean we were as I said we were in the covered wagons of the ballet. Really the covered

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wagons. And there it was. We did this horrendous tour. We went back to the Met, had 10 days, got on

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the boat, went back to Monte Carlo and I think the first three days there wasn't a soul on deck. We

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were all so tired and then got home there into Monte Carlo and we rehearsed. We had a season there

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we went to Paris, had another season. I went back to England. I went down to the south of France.

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The war broke out and I never got back for eight years. I was caught in Paris, couldn't get over

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the channel. Everything had stopped. They got me to then to Rotterdam at the dead of night

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with my trunk, no money, just a passport and I got there and I did I think a very wise thing.

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I went to the best hotel and I called London. I called Mrs. Toys. I said I have I'm here. They

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were worried to death where I was. I said I'm in Rotterdam. I have no money. Send some. They sent

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20 pounds and I moved right out of the hotel and got into a Passe-Tion and dribbles and drabs kept

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coming to some of the kids. You see they had difficulty with the passports. They couldn't get

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out of Europe because there were nonsense passports. There were all kinds of... But dribble

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we got through and the marvelous thing was there were three of the Russian girls and me

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and another Russian boy and we found this funny nightclub. So we went in there and we had a very

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soft drink, whatever it was, and the band was playing. Well we got on the floor and we did what

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we thought was American jetty bag dancing. Well the pace began to fill up and they applauded us.

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So the management said you know who are you? We said where? That was de Monte Carlo. He said

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you come here. I'll give you dinner every night and you do what you did. For two weeks we earned

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our dinner that way doing it. And finally Hurrock called the hotel and he said there's a boat.

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Get on it. We got on a boat called the Rotterdam. By this time you know it was it had all started

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and it took us three days to get from Rotterdam to Southampton because the boat was all it was all

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everything was mine and I got all my stuff ready to get off to get off you know in England

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and they said Mr Franklin you have to go right on through everything's fine Mr Hurrock and the

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ballet and listen that you should go right on through and I was that's the only reason I didn't

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get in London in the in the war. They allowed me to come right on through here. So you came right back

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here. We went back to America. We were two days out and they said get ready and get some of the

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new ones some of the ballets. So in the lights at night you know because the ship was lit

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going over the Atlantic and we'd all be rehearsing at night. We arrived at eight o'clock down there

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at the docks. They took us by by our bus taxes. We went straight into the Met. I saw Danilova

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and Elise, all of them for the first time in three months. We did a new ballet by Freddie Ashton. We

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opened that night right off the boat and there we were. Well I was I was doing two ballets.

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I was doing this new ballet with with Danilova and I was doing Gator Parisien with Mia Slawenska

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and Mia was overweight. We'd oh we were all out of training and I had to have Randy in the wings

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before I could go on for the second ballet. Oh this was something else and during that season

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we would we never went home at night. We went upstairs because we had half the ballet company

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been left behind. So there were all new dancers, American dancers and they had to be taught the

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ballets. So it would be like a Sunday or a Saturday. We'd be up there rehearsing Swan Lake for the girls.

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No makeup just the head. They'd be sent down and I'm teaching them Prince Igor because that's the

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last ballet. Do it after the matinee upstairs and they used to feed us hot dogs and ice cream. Can

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weeks of horror because everything had to be rehearsed and the new ballets still had to go on.

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And how were they refused? Brilliant. They were brilliant. How we'd escaped. Of course we were all

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escapees you see. It was wonderful. It was very romantic. It was. And then you know we were on

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the road and the traveling and then of course it all really started. Then America got into it and

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then it really was horrendous. The traveling and the and then the what the so-called rationing.

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It wasn't really but I was sending care packages home. I was doing all all the things but we were

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really going through it. We went down to South America in 1941 which we never should have done

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but we did. The Ballet Stamont de Coupe down there we went. We could have all been blown up with things

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but it was it was the kind of um we know I don't think any of us really thought about anything in

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those days. I don't know what it was because a big company went down there and it was very dangerous

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to go. You know it was 41 40 it was very very I don't know but we survived. We all came back.

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We did the performances. We had a big success. Came back and went on the tours again. Did you

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have this sense when you were on the tours when you were traveling and really as you say you were

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in the covered wagons of ballet. How did the audiences respond to you? Well you see there

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would be moments. Now if there was one performance I will really remember. We were doing three good

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ballets. Now the first ballet closed. Nothing. No the curtain came down. Didn't go up because it was

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there to go up for. The second ballet the same thing. By this time there's doom and gloom in all

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dressing rooms thinking well my god we must be so awful. The third ballet came down and they sort

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of applauded very nicely and that was it. And there was a reception as always after and we said well

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what happened? They said well we didn't think we had to disturb anybody. It was all so beautiful.

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And they didn't. They didn't applaud and they said it was all breathtaking and you were all

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like people from another planet with all the mad makeup and the hair and the stuff

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and that was what it was. But we found many audiences. Oh and then one dear lady. One of those

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lovely ladies. You know the club ladies. We walked into this theater and we looked at the floor. It

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had been polished within an inch of its life. It was so slippery and she saw us putting down the

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glass and she said no you will ruin the floor. I said especially I've had my maid cleaning the

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floor. I said we can't stand up. And this was another strange thing but they didn't know.

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They just didn't know. And it was experience and wonderful things that happened to all of us.

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It was really um and of course being so young we all thought it was wonderful and then of course

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we had our own train. You had your own train? Our own train. There was um