WEBVTT 1 00:00:23.660 --> 00:00:29.960 Number six, it says that we brought 8,100 people 신 2 00:00:29.960 --> 00:00:29.960 3 00:00:29.960 --> 00:00:37.360 This will be, uh, 20, 25, 21, 18, 25. 4 00:00:39.180 --> 00:00:39.760 How we doing? 5 00:00:40.140 --> 00:00:40.860 We're good. 6 00:00:41.160 --> 00:00:41.540 Are we on? 7 00:00:41.580 --> 00:00:42.420 Are we on? 8 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:42.920 Yes. 9 00:00:43.820 --> 00:00:44.860 All right. 10 00:00:46.660 --> 00:00:47.200 I see all the audio. 11 00:00:47.220 --> 00:00:48.660 This is mysterious. 12 00:00:49.120 --> 00:00:50.360 I don't know why you're all here. 13 00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:51.900 After a while, I don't even answer. 14 00:00:54.100 --> 00:00:55.780 I see a mumbling. 15 00:00:55.780 --> 00:00:57.380 He's getting the audio. 16 00:00:57.380 --> 00:00:58.760 I'm trying to make a picture. 17 00:00:59.020 --> 00:00:59.420 We have everything. 18 00:00:59.760 --> 00:00:59.920 Okay. 19 00:00:59.920 --> 00:01:00.380 We do? 20 00:01:00.660 --> 00:01:00.980 We're ready. 21 00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:01.640 Very good. 22 00:01:01.800 --> 00:01:02.260 All right. 23 00:01:02.420 --> 00:01:02.900 Here we are. 24 00:01:03.820 --> 00:01:03.820 25 00:01:04.800 --> 00:01:07.940 Um, Freddie, tell me about the first time you met Ruth Page. 26 00:01:08.020 --> 00:01:08.660 Where was it? 27 00:01:08.660 --> 00:01:09.220 When was it? 28 00:01:09.340 --> 00:01:13.700 Well, um, it really is quite a strange story in a way. 29 00:01:14.420 --> 00:01:20.560 We were, or we had performed the Ballet of Mr. Monte Carlo at the Hollywood Bowl, and 30 00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:26.820 Mr. Denham, our director, had said that we were going to have a ballet by the famous 31 00:01:26.820 --> 00:01:28.060 Miss Ruth Page. 32 00:01:28.800 --> 00:01:33.980 But there was very little time to rehearse this ballet, so we were traveling by train 33 00:01:33.980 --> 00:01:42.000 at the moment, and on the way back, there was a layover at Kansas City, and we were 34 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:47.380 told that Miss Page would be there, and we would rehearse there. 35 00:01:48.100 --> 00:01:49.800 Well, I asked how long it would be. 36 00:01:49.820 --> 00:01:50.680 Three hours. 37 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:55.240 Well, we got there, and then Mr. Denham said, now you go to this hotel. 38 00:01:56.060 --> 00:01:59.780 So, I was with Ruth Anna Boris, who was doing, um, with me. 39 00:02:00.740 --> 00:02:01.960 Um, I said, well, very well, we went. 40 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:07.700 Well, this room so-and-so, so whatever it was, we went up to the room, and there's 41 00:02:07.700 --> 00:02:13.380 Miss Page in her bra and panties, and there's a sheet on the wall, and she's showing Frankie 42 00:02:13.380 --> 00:02:13.720 and Johnny. 43 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:20.680 So, I always say I met Ruth in a hotel room in Kansas City for the first time, and that 44 00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:21.080 was it. 45 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:22.800 And we rehearsed for two hours. 46 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:24.780 We learned the pas de deux in the ballet. 47 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:26.040 We got dressed. 48 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:27.060 I was in my shorts. 49 00:02:27.160 --> 00:02:29.280 We got back on the train and came to New York. 50 00:02:29.600 --> 00:02:34.520 She came with us, and a week later, we were doing it on the stage, and that was my first 51 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:35.500 encounter with Ruth. 52 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:37.040 And that was 1944. 53 00:02:37.640 --> 00:02:38.040 1944. 54 00:02:40.700 --> 00:02:43.720 It's, uh, right, and the funny thing was, right away, we got along. 55 00:02:44.540 --> 00:02:46.320 I sort of liked her. 56 00:02:46.320 --> 00:02:47.260 I liked her style. 57 00:02:47.540 --> 00:02:50.000 It was a bit shocking, mind you, but I liked it. 58 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:56.900 It was, the way she got at things, a very theatrical, no-nonsense lady, and you do this 59 00:02:56.900 --> 00:03:01.160 and you do that, and of course, it was like the old silent movies, the thing flickered, 60 00:03:01.420 --> 00:03:04.100 you know, and it was peering and looking and singing. 61 00:03:04.780 --> 00:03:09.240 However, that was the very first time I'd ever, of course, I knew of her in England. 62 00:03:09.340 --> 00:03:10.020 We'd known of Ruth. 63 00:03:10.060 --> 00:03:11.280 She was a very famous lady. 64 00:03:11.900 --> 00:03:14.420 But to meet her and be in one of her ballets was something else. 65 00:03:14.700 --> 00:03:18.940 Tell me about what you knew about her reputation in England, because at that point, she just 66 00:03:18.940 --> 00:03:21.620 sort of was beginning to build an international reputation. 67 00:03:21.640 --> 00:03:21.640 68 00:03:21.760 --> 00:03:26.560 Well, you know, she had, by that time, she was dancing, she danced with Kreutzberg. 69 00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:32.220 She danced with a lot of European, not European people so much, but she'd been in Europe, 70 00:03:32.260 --> 00:03:33.360 and we knew of her. 71 00:03:33.380 --> 00:03:40.000 There was a very good publication, Dancing Times, and they always reviewed all the dances 72 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:43.120 that were coming from America to dance in England or dance in Europe. 73 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:46.900 And, oh, we knew, I knew of Ruth, really. 74 00:03:46.940 --> 00:03:51.940 As soon as I got into the ballet world, I knew of her and what she was doing, and she'd 75 00:03:51.940 --> 00:03:54.860 done this with Adolf Bollmann, she'd done this with somebody else. 76 00:03:55.100 --> 00:03:58.780 Oh, we were all, I was very much aware of her, very much. 77 00:03:58.880 --> 00:04:01.140 Was she considered something of a curiosity, Freddie? 78 00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:02.120 Was she unusual? 79 00:04:02.340 --> 00:04:07.460 I mean, if you had to put her in a category of other people at that time, was she sort 80 00:04:07.460 --> 00:04:09.000 of considered far out or? 81 00:04:09.260 --> 00:04:11.600 Well, you know, it was a funny thing. 82 00:04:12.200 --> 00:04:17.540 You couldn't really place her simply because she did so many different things. 83 00:04:17.960 --> 00:04:24.160 I mean, she was interested in all cultures, and out of those cultures, she would make 84 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:25.000 ballets. 85 00:04:25.300 --> 00:04:31.860 And then she, I mean, a dancer of her caliber, sort of having been classically trained, working 86 00:04:31.860 --> 00:04:36.040 with a man like Harold Kreutzberg, who was a modern German dancer. 87 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:42.840 And it was, she was so bold about these things and very sort of innovative in those days. 88 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:49.460 And that we knew of her because of these wonderful things and the reasons that she did them and 89 00:04:49.460 --> 00:04:50.340 why she did them. 90 00:04:50.740 --> 00:04:52.460 And she wasn't sort of narrow. 91 00:04:53.140 --> 00:04:54.940 She wasn't hidebound in any way. 92 00:04:55.520 --> 00:04:56.600 It pleased her. 93 00:04:57.040 --> 00:05:03.680 She had the intuitive thing about the, what she wanted to do. 94 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:04.680 And she did it. 95 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:06.100 And it was marvelous. 96 00:05:07.420 --> 00:05:11.300 Now, Bentley Stone was your partner in that film with Frankie and Johnny that you were watching. 97 00:05:11.420 --> 00:05:12.180 That's right. 98 00:05:12.860 --> 00:05:19.820 And you and Ruth Anaboris were set to dance it on tour or, you know, the thing was, it was going to be done. 99 00:05:21.900 --> 00:05:23.860 We were going to, we took it on the road. 100 00:05:24.540 --> 00:05:27.220 We opened out of town, which was something in those days. 101 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:28.000 Yes. 102 00:05:28.060 --> 00:05:29.380 And they were in it. 103 00:05:29.460 --> 00:05:30.380 They were doing it. 104 00:05:30.380 --> 00:05:31.900 And then it was coming into New York. 105 00:05:31.900 --> 00:05:35.040 And Ruth and Bentley were going to do the opening night. 106 00:05:35.840 --> 00:05:38.280 And then Ruth Anna and I were going to do it after. 107 00:05:38.700 --> 00:05:45.820 But the second night, and this is unfortunate because in her book, and I pointed this out to Ruth, 108 00:05:46.340 --> 00:05:48.840 it's not mentioned that I danced with Ruth Page. 109 00:05:48.960 --> 00:05:50.880 I did the second performance. 110 00:05:51.620 --> 00:05:54.360 And it was when she was having the book done by John Martin. 111 00:05:54.880 --> 00:05:56.240 I said, Ruth, but that's wrong. 112 00:05:56.880 --> 00:05:58.060 Bentley only did one show. 113 00:05:58.340 --> 00:05:59.380 And oh, she's Freddie Downey. 114 00:05:59.380 --> 00:06:00.340 You mean we danced together? 115 00:06:00.340 --> 00:06:01.560 I said, of course we did. 116 00:06:01.940 --> 00:06:02.820 And we did. 117 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:05.340 You know, so I did dance with her. 118 00:06:06.780 --> 00:06:09.920 And from then on, of course, after that, it was with Ruth Anna. 119 00:06:10.460 --> 00:06:18.940 Now, what kind of, now you are the first person that I've been able to speak with who has actually danced partner, Ruth. 120 00:06:19.080 --> 00:06:19.940 Oh, she was wonderful. 121 00:06:20.220 --> 00:06:27.900 You know, the thing was, and it was very good because it's very difficult going on for the first time 122 00:06:27.900 --> 00:06:29.620 when two of the dancers are new. 123 00:06:30.380 --> 00:06:34.860 But when you go on with someone, that's why a debut is always made. 124 00:06:34.980 --> 00:06:38.220 If it's going to be the boy, you go on with a ballerina that knows it and vice versa. 125 00:06:38.580 --> 00:06:45.000 Well, with me, it was wonderful because Ruth, if I had any lapses, she'd get me through it and she'd steer me through it. 126 00:06:45.080 --> 00:06:46.020 But she was wonderful. 127 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:50.140 And she was very much like Madame Daniella, whom I also danced with in those days a lot. 128 00:06:51.100 --> 00:06:54.540 Ruth, I used to say, Ruth, you hook wonderfully well. 129 00:06:54.540 --> 00:07:00.420 Now, all the lifts that are the lifts up and round, but she just grabbed onto me and hook onto me and there was no problem. 130 00:07:00.780 --> 00:07:02.920 And she hooked very well, I must say. 131 00:07:03.420 --> 00:07:06.040 But it was, oh, it was, I enjoyed it. 132 00:07:06.140 --> 00:07:06.660 It was wonderful. 133 00:07:07.440 --> 00:07:11.140 Now, at the time, that was really rather a shocking ballet. 134 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:17.800 And the reception it got in New York was even for sophisticated New York, kind of a surprise. 135 00:07:17.960 --> 00:07:18.460 Talk about that. 136 00:07:18.460 --> 00:07:22.940 Well, at the time, there was a little trouble in New York. 137 00:07:22.940 --> 00:07:24.600 I can't remember. 138 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:35.540 The mayor or the commissioner had just closed a play that was, I think it was sort of a lesbian nature, down the street. 139 00:07:36.220 --> 00:07:43.200 And along we come with Frankie and Johnny with a lovely house of ill reputed with the curtains, the blinds going up and down. 140 00:07:43.640 --> 00:07:47.940 So it really, we didn't know we were sticking our necks out at the time. 141 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:49.040 We didn't know what was happening. 142 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:51.560 But we did it. 143 00:07:51.960 --> 00:07:56.360 And the press was a little bit strange and a bit sort of, well, we don't know after all what's going on. 144 00:07:56.380 --> 00:07:57.240 They've closed one thing. 145 00:07:57.260 --> 00:08:00.620 Now they've got the famous Ballet of the Rostamante Carlo with this going on. 146 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:01.920 But it was allowed. 147 00:08:02.140 --> 00:08:03.320 We did do it. 148 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:04.340 But with some changes. 149 00:08:04.760 --> 00:08:13.280 There was some, actually, no, the changes came about in Boston where we were really banned. 150 00:08:13.840 --> 00:08:15.500 That's when the big change came. 151 00:08:15.500 --> 00:08:21.140 When the watch committee came in and said they almost stopped the show, they didn't, but they almost brought the curtain down. 152 00:08:21.460 --> 00:08:24.300 And then they said, oh, the elimination of the blinds going up and down. 153 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:26.820 The men couldn't go into the house if they went, they could have. 154 00:08:26.960 --> 00:08:30.340 It was completely changed for them, but not for New York. 155 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:32.980 We gave it as Ruth wanted to in New York. 156 00:08:33.740 --> 00:08:43.620 But the and the surrounding publicity, I remember there was click, peek, look, name the magazines as there were in those days. 157 00:08:43.620 --> 00:08:46.080 And they were all there to take these all after the performance. 158 00:08:47.100 --> 00:08:48.880 And we did all the pictures. 159 00:08:49.160 --> 00:08:51.680 And then Mr. Dan came in and said, stop this. 160 00:08:51.980 --> 00:08:53.280 I've heard this, that and the other. 161 00:08:53.380 --> 00:08:54.140 It's too bawdy. 162 00:08:54.280 --> 00:08:55.140 It's too this, that and the other. 163 00:08:55.220 --> 00:08:55.880 And away it went. 164 00:08:56.800 --> 00:09:00.140 Now it was like millions of dollars worth of publicity that none of us got. 165 00:09:00.620 --> 00:09:02.000 And he stopped it. 166 00:09:02.220 --> 00:09:02.620 Why? 167 00:09:03.140 --> 00:09:11.920 He was a bit of a prude, a bit of a, I don't know, but his Ballet of the Rostamante Carlo after we'd never presented anything quite this daring. 168 00:09:11.920 --> 00:09:15.860 And I think he was afraid simply because we did tour a lot. 169 00:09:16.300 --> 00:09:20.960 We did go into the funny little towns and Frank, he certainly would have been given. 170 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:31.740 And I think he was a bit afraid of the publicity it would get that it would be difficult for us to tour it, not in the bigger towns, but the many, many one night stands that we did. 171 00:09:31.780 --> 00:09:33.260 And I think that was possibly the reason. 172 00:09:33.900 --> 00:09:35.540 And so he just took it right out of the repertoire. 173 00:09:35.640 --> 00:09:36.160 Right out. 174 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:37.500 No, it stayed in the repertoire. 175 00:09:37.540 --> 00:09:38.400 We did it. 176 00:09:38.400 --> 00:09:39.960 But the publicity end of it went. 177 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:40.900 We didn't get it. 178 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:42.020 We didn't get it at all. 179 00:09:42.740 --> 00:09:43.520 But it was a shame. 180 00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:45.880 But it was a fun piece to do. 181 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:49.340 Now how did it contrast with the kinds of roles that you were accustomed to doing? 182 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:55.780 Well, in those days I was doing Elton Johnnie and then I was a prince here. 183 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:56.960 I was a count there. 184 00:09:57.080 --> 00:09:59.480 I was a nondescript being somewhere else. 185 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:00.960 It fitted right in with me. 186 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:01.860 I loved it. 187 00:10:01.880 --> 00:10:04.660 I didn't have any problem at all with doing it. 188 00:10:06.160 --> 00:10:14.400 And knowing Ruth and getting along so very well and I think I was her kind of dancer. 189 00:10:14.580 --> 00:10:16.280 That was really where we met. 190 00:10:16.680 --> 00:10:17.940 And I think that's what it was. 191 00:10:18.580 --> 00:10:22.140 And years later when I'd done some more things, she used to call me the choreographer's delight. 192 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:25.320 She said you could come and push all the stuff over the footlights. 193 00:10:26.160 --> 00:10:27.300 Now what do you mean? 194 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:29.180 What do you mean a choreographer's delight? 195 00:10:29.220 --> 00:10:30.180 Her kind of dancer? 196 00:10:30.180 --> 00:10:34.000 Well, for instance, I pick things up very quickly. 197 00:10:35.020 --> 00:10:44.540 I'm musical and I can make whatever they give me theatrical and make it look, as we would say today, something to sell over the footlights. 198 00:10:45.160 --> 00:10:48.940 And that was it with the kind of personality that I had on the stage. 199 00:10:50.620 --> 00:10:53.600 And I understood what she wanted. 200 00:10:53.600 --> 00:11:02.040 Mind you, all of this is simply because I had been subjected to this long before I was in the ballet. 201 00:11:02.280 --> 00:11:04.360 So I had all of that to draw on. 202 00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:05.460 Tell me about that. 203 00:11:05.560 --> 00:11:08.300 Tell me about the years leading up to meeting Ruth. 204 00:11:08.880 --> 00:11:22.400 Well, when I was ready to be launched, so to speak, first of all in England I'd had what they used to call an all-around training, tap, musical comedy, ballet, but very, very strong on the ballet. 205 00:11:22.400 --> 00:11:25.900 And when I was 17, there was nothing in England. 206 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:28.820 There was no one to ballet company, no Sadler's Wells, nothing. 207 00:11:29.540 --> 00:11:31.220 I was 17 and ready. 208 00:11:32.380 --> 00:11:41.240 I got a job, my audition got a job, to go to the Casino de Paris in Paris. 209 00:11:42.020 --> 00:11:43.240 I lied about my age. 210 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:46.140 I said I was 18, I wasn't, in order to get a passport. 211 00:11:46.140 --> 00:11:54.620 Well, they thought I was good enough to put me under a bond, as children had to be put under in those days if you left the country. 212 00:11:55.060 --> 00:11:58.260 In other words, there was a 500 pound bond. 213 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:03.520 And then away I went to Paris and I was put with a French family. 214 00:12:04.280 --> 00:12:06.780 And I was escorted home every night. 215 00:12:07.020 --> 00:12:11.060 And I could only go out if I was with company people, you know, I couldn't do anything much. 216 00:12:11.060 --> 00:12:15.540 And there I found myself with Josephine Baker. 217 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:20.580 And I was on the end of a troupe of boys known as the Jackson Boys. 218 00:12:21.260 --> 00:12:23.360 And there was a troupe of girls, the Jackson Girls. 219 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:31.240 And I was there on the end of the line and I was, they did, we did sort of everything, juggling, tap dancing. 220 00:12:31.400 --> 00:12:32.580 We danced on tops of buckets. 221 00:12:32.780 --> 00:12:37.260 We did anything in these peculiar shows they had in Paris. 222 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:48.920 And then after Josephine's show closed, along came the very famous Miss Tanguette, who was the big music, who used to work very closely with Maurice Chevalier. 223 00:12:49.640 --> 00:12:58.020 She came into the show and there was a number called, you're driving me crazy, where you see she would only have the boys back of her. 224 00:12:58.020 --> 00:12:59.120 She was then about 60. 225 00:12:59.560 --> 00:13:02.740 So the girls were in the dressing rooms and the boys, we did all the numbers on the stage. 226 00:13:02.740 --> 00:13:08.700 And there was this number and the boys, half the boys in one box on the side of the stage and on the other side. 227 00:13:08.700 --> 00:13:10.100 And then she'd sing to us. 228 00:13:10.500 --> 00:13:16.520 Well, it was Billy Milton and a very famous chanteur, is this the in England. 229 00:13:16.900 --> 00:13:22.080 He was doing the, this song with her, coming out of the pit and singing and dancing with her. 230 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:27.280 Well, he was sick and I played the piano and she'd heard me. 231 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:28.440 So she read the boy play the piano. 232 00:13:28.500 --> 00:13:29.740 She climbed the stairs, incidentally. 233 00:13:30.300 --> 00:13:34.240 A big star climbed up to where we were and they pointed, that's the boy. 234 00:13:34.260 --> 00:13:36.120 Well, I'd only been there within three months. 235 00:13:37.160 --> 00:13:39.800 And all these boys were veterans, seasoned kids. 236 00:13:40.060 --> 00:13:41.080 No, no, she wanted me. 237 00:13:41.400 --> 00:13:43.560 They dressed me up in the best tails in the dressing room. 238 00:13:43.800 --> 00:13:44.500 I went in the pit. 239 00:13:44.540 --> 00:13:45.240 I sat at the piano. 240 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:46.040 I came up. 241 00:13:46.260 --> 00:13:51.660 She sat, displayed the gorgeous legs and sang, I sang, you're driving me crazy with her and played the piano. 242 00:13:52.900 --> 00:13:56.300 And that was, this is, this is the, my claim to fame with all of this. 243 00:13:56.300 --> 00:14:04.220 And then after that, I, I stayed there another year, got back into England, was in two West End shows, flops, 244 00:14:04.620 --> 00:14:08.920 auditioned for a very nice young lady who was then 15 at the time called Wendy Toy. 245 00:14:09.700 --> 00:14:10.600 And she's, where have you been? 246 00:14:10.740 --> 00:14:11.740 And I said, I've been in Paris. 247 00:14:11.800 --> 00:14:13.820 I had no money, no practice clothes, nothing. 248 00:14:14.540 --> 00:14:15.480 I auditioned. 249 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:23.500 She was doing the choreography for a show at Grosvenor House at Cabaret that Anton Dolin was overseeing. 250 00:14:23.780 --> 00:14:24.880 She called Mr. Dolin. 251 00:14:24.880 --> 00:14:29.280 Mr. Dolin came to see me and Mr. Dolin said, you must go to class. 252 00:14:29.480 --> 00:14:30.120 You'll this, you'll this. 253 00:14:30.200 --> 00:14:31.540 And I started at the ballet. 254 00:14:31.820 --> 00:14:32.920 That was when I was 18. 255 00:14:33.520 --> 00:14:39.640 And then from then on, it was with Wendy during the night, the shows again with her, the Mark of a Dolin ballet. 256 00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:44.900 They met in Saumy, gave me a lovely premier dancer contract and America. 257 00:14:45.300 --> 00:14:53.660 So it's all been, but you see, when I was with them in the Cabaret, oh, I forgot to tell you, we had, Mr. Dolin had done a play. 258 00:14:54.820 --> 00:14:55.220 Precipice. 259 00:14:55.260 --> 00:14:56.360 And it was terrible. 260 00:14:56.400 --> 00:14:56.880 He fell off. 261 00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:57.820 It was just awful. 262 00:14:58.560 --> 00:15:01.380 Lost all of his money and got a job, a vaudeville job. 263 00:15:01.420 --> 00:15:02.800 Well, we were known as the children. 264 00:15:03.400 --> 00:15:05.300 So we called Mrs. Toy and said, I need the children. 265 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:06.040 Well, what for? 266 00:15:06.040 --> 00:15:06.780 We're going on tour. 267 00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:10.960 We went on tour with what they used to call a second rate show. 268 00:15:11.680 --> 00:15:13.220 We were getting a lot of money. 269 00:15:13.980 --> 00:15:23.120 And in the show, they, the man used to take great scenes from either the Folies Bergère or the Casino de Paris and put them in the show 270 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:25.420 with semi nude ladies. 271 00:15:25.900 --> 00:15:31.320 And there was a big machine ballet, which I danced and Dolin and Wendy did other things. 272 00:15:33.060 --> 00:15:35.480 Well, we used to, do you know what the bird is? 273 00:15:35.680 --> 00:15:42.120 The bird is when you get the booze and they, oh, now we used to do twice nightly and we opened in Leeds. 274 00:15:43.040 --> 00:15:49.260 Now, the second house on a Monday night is when they've all been to the pubs and they're all a bit coming out. 275 00:15:49.260 --> 00:15:54.980 Well, I fly on the stage doing these great things today and I get the cat calls and the booing. 276 00:15:55.120 --> 00:15:57.360 They'd never seen a man in tights. 277 00:15:57.500 --> 00:15:59.180 This is the ballet, never. 278 00:16:00.100 --> 00:16:04.600 And it was, I used to be in tears in the wings and Wendy's keep going, keep going. 279 00:16:04.740 --> 00:16:11.080 And then of course, you know, in the ballet, she'd run out in a beautiful dress and she'd be looking, you know, looking here and looking. 280 00:16:11.180 --> 00:16:13.380 Then you'd hear the audience say, hey, missy's over there. 281 00:16:13.580 --> 00:16:15.500 You know, one of those things would go on. 282 00:16:15.500 --> 00:16:18.700 And then Pat would stalk on in white tights and they'd draw their heads off. 283 00:16:19.520 --> 00:16:21.160 I mean, we, this was old Vauderville. 284 00:16:21.220 --> 00:16:30.700 This was long before and I learned and I learned what to do and all of the funny audiences and difficult audiences that we had to perform. 285 00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:32.360 So I had that. 286 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:34.440 I had all the Jackson knowledge back of me. 287 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:42.020 By the way, Charlie Chaplin was one of the original Jackson boys when he was when he was a youth. 288 00:16:42.020 --> 00:16:45.960 So that it was the father, Jackson's father of that. 289 00:16:46.060 --> 00:16:47.320 That's what Chaplin was with. 290 00:16:47.680 --> 00:16:50.600 Then his son had the next Jackson troop. 291 00:16:50.860 --> 00:16:54.160 So it was from a tradition, you know, and I learned tap dancing. 292 00:16:55.540 --> 00:16:56.500 We did. 293 00:16:56.880 --> 00:17:00.100 We were ducks with great little titch boots on our feet. 294 00:17:00.560 --> 00:17:05.240 The wood we get up and do anything juggling, hats, everything. 295 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:07.380 So how did you feel when you got into the ballet? 296 00:17:07.540 --> 00:17:08.360 Did you feel as though you'd been? 297 00:17:08.360 --> 00:17:11.120 Well, I, the funny thing was, I should be very frank. 298 00:17:11.780 --> 00:17:13.220 I was dancing with Wendy. 299 00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:15.660 We were, we had our name in lights in London West. 300 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:16.700 We did lovely shows. 301 00:17:16.800 --> 00:17:17.700 I was very happy. 302 00:17:17.760 --> 00:17:21.820 I was taking class every day with Leggart and the deacastro, all these lovely people. 303 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.080 I didn't want to be in a ballet company. 304 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:32.060 I was having a very good time until one day Mr. Dolan came to me and he said, Freddie, it's about time you became serious. 305 00:17:32.600 --> 00:17:34.800 And I said, but I'm very serious, Mr. Dolan. 306 00:17:35.020 --> 00:17:36.460 He said, no, about the ballet. 307 00:17:36.460 --> 00:17:41.420 He said, I'm forming a ballet company with Alicia Markova and you're going to be in it. 308 00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:42.800 No ifs, ands or buts. 309 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:46.800 And that was how I just came to be in a ballet company. 310 00:17:46.840 --> 00:17:49.420 But I didn't really want it. 311 00:17:49.940 --> 00:17:52.980 Oh, but he has such a powerful personality and such a... 312 00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:57.980 Well, and he was my idol, you know, and you know, I really, and then with the, I'd known Alicia. 313 00:17:58.040 --> 00:17:59.040 I'd been with them. 314 00:17:59.340 --> 00:18:05.300 You see, another thing, with or not being ballet companies, Mr. Dolan used to have a summer company. 315 00:18:05.940 --> 00:18:13.240 And he would ask when, you know, because we had our little, our solos that we did, and with Alicia Markova, and then three or four dancers. 316 00:18:13.280 --> 00:18:16.060 And we'd go dancing on the end of the piers. 317 00:18:16.300 --> 00:18:21.080 Now, that may sound very strange, but on the end of every pier, there's a theater in England. 318 00:18:21.220 --> 00:18:23.200 And it used to be the place to go at night. 319 00:18:23.800 --> 00:18:26.660 And that was, oh, the end of the piers, you know, we're all doing it. 320 00:18:26.700 --> 00:18:28.240 And we did all of that. 321 00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:31.320 And it was, I knew him. 322 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:32.820 I, of course, adored Markova. 323 00:18:33.220 --> 00:18:37.260 And when he said they were having a company, I thought, well, maybe it is time. 324 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:42.880 Maybe it is time to really sort of do what I was really, I suppose, put down to do. 325 00:18:43.600 --> 00:18:44.600 And so you joined the company. 326 00:18:44.740 --> 00:18:49.180 I joined the company and did a lot of nice things. 327 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:53.880 I then, I became, he used to say, Freddie is my understudy. 328 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.100 Well, it was in a way, it was too. 329 00:18:56.100 --> 00:18:57.140 I was a soloist only. 330 00:18:57.220 --> 00:19:00.280 And then he'd come to the dressing room and say, you're on tonight and no rehearsals. 331 00:19:00.300 --> 00:19:01.160 And he'd throw me on. 332 00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:02.060 And I'd say, oh, usual. 333 00:19:02.300 --> 00:19:03.060 This was him. 334 00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:05.220 Whatever, it didn't really matter. 335 00:19:05.300 --> 00:19:07.720 I remember walking down one time, he came to the dressing room. 336 00:19:07.740 --> 00:19:08.540 My shoulder was hurting. 337 00:19:08.620 --> 00:19:10.100 He said, you're going to do Bluebird tonight. 338 00:19:10.120 --> 00:19:13.060 This is a very big part to do with Markova. 339 00:19:13.080 --> 00:19:14.220 And I'd never touched her. 340 00:19:14.340 --> 00:19:15.700 I'd never partnered her. 341 00:19:16.460 --> 00:19:18.460 We went onto the stage and she was like this. 342 00:19:18.600 --> 00:19:20.100 She looked marvelous in her blue suit, too. 343 00:19:20.100 --> 00:19:21.060 I was all dressed up. 344 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:24.420 And she said, Freddie, we'll do a supported pirouette where she goes around. 345 00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:25.800 And we did this. 346 00:19:27.060 --> 00:19:27.760 We went on. 347 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:28.480 And that was it. 348 00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:29.520 But I was thrown on. 349 00:19:29.520 --> 00:19:31.600 I've been thrown on all of my life, it seems to me. 350 00:19:31.780 --> 00:19:32.300 My goodness.