WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.540 --> 00:00:09.640 He liked impossible cases. 2 00:00:09.860 --> 00:00:11.180 Yeah, it's clear. 3 00:00:11.580 --> 00:00:14.540 He liked a challenge, you know. 4 00:00:14.920 --> 00:00:16.580 Yeah, it's clear he liked the challenge. 5 00:00:16.660 --> 00:00:17.760 Yeah, he liked the challenge. 6 00:00:18.460 --> 00:00:18.960 Are we ready? 7 00:00:19.160 --> 00:00:19.420 We're ready. 8 00:00:19.540 --> 00:00:19.920 Good. 9 00:00:20.400 --> 00:00:20.800 Okay. 10 00:00:22.100 --> 00:00:22.460 Okay. 11 00:00:24.060 --> 00:00:24.720 Very good. 12 00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:25.800 13 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:32.180 Let me know when. 14 00:00:32.940 --> 00:00:34.740 Am I positioned all right? 15 00:00:34.740 --> 00:00:35.260 That's fine. 16 00:00:35.500 --> 00:00:37.780 And is Ruth looking at you into the camera? 17 00:00:37.900 --> 00:00:38.900 We're not getting too much profile. 18 00:00:39.740 --> 00:00:41.380 In other words, in order for her to look at me. 19 00:00:43.620 --> 00:00:44.520 As much full face as there. 20 00:00:44.680 --> 00:00:46.260 I don't want to be in profile. 21 00:00:46.500 --> 00:00:46.720 No. 22 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:48.040 Look at the video, please. 23 00:00:48.360 --> 00:00:50.020 Look at me, Ruth, as though you were talking to me. 24 00:00:50.020 --> 00:00:50.520 Very good. 25 00:00:50.620 --> 00:00:50.780 Okay. 26 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:50.780 27 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:50.780 28 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:50.780 29 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:50.780 30 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:50.780 31 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:50.780 32 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:50.780 33 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:50.780 34 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:50.780 35 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:50.780 36 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:50.780 37 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:50.780 38 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:50.780 39 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:51.240 Okay. 40 00:00:53.560 --> 00:00:55.040 Is that a good full face? 41 00:00:55.220 --> 00:00:55.560 All right. 42 00:00:55.560 --> 00:00:56.100 Are we ready? 43 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:00.200 That's fine. 44 00:01:00.440 --> 00:01:00.980 Yes, that's right. 45 00:01:01.060 --> 00:01:01.600 It's full face. 46 00:01:01.660 --> 00:01:02.140 Right head on. 47 00:01:02.460 --> 00:01:02.780 Good. 48 00:01:03.580 --> 00:01:04.060 Okay. 49 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:06.100 Thank you. 50 00:01:06.380 --> 00:01:06.840 All right. 51 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:07.300 We're rolling? 52 00:01:14.800 --> 00:01:15.280 Okay. 53 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:17.240 We are rolling and recording. 54 00:01:17.480 --> 00:01:18.280 Here we go. 55 00:01:19.140 --> 00:01:20.760 I thought today, since we're going to be doing a little bit of a 56 00:01:20.760 --> 00:01:25.720 Since you're all dressed up and I'm all dressed up in this beautiful, elegant room, 57 00:01:26.260 --> 00:01:28.760 we would start off talking about something frivolous. 58 00:01:29.960 --> 00:01:30.520 Clothes. 59 00:01:30.660 --> 00:01:32.200 Let's talk about clothes. 60 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:32.940 Oh, yes. 61 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:34.660 You like them. 62 00:01:36.280 --> 00:01:39.180 I tell you, I like to go shopping twice a year. 63 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:41.040 And I don't like to shop. 64 00:01:41.180 --> 00:01:44.080 And I don't like to, I get everything all at once. 65 00:01:44.080 --> 00:01:49.340 And I never go any place except Saint Laurent, the boutique. 66 00:01:50.380 --> 00:01:51.980 And so it's fairly easy. 67 00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:53.460 And they never go out of style. 68 00:01:53.960 --> 00:01:55.340 That's the trouble with them. 69 00:01:56.120 --> 00:01:58.640 I like things that you throw away or give away. 70 00:01:58.800 --> 00:02:02.000 You can't give away anything in Saint Laurent because they're always, 71 00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:03.680 they're so simple, you see. 72 00:02:04.100 --> 00:02:05.180 And I never wear anything else. 73 00:02:05.240 --> 00:02:07.140 So clothes don't bother me at all. 74 00:02:07.940 --> 00:02:09.920 I mean, I don't think about them at all. 75 00:02:10.340 --> 00:02:12.440 You used to go shopping with Margot Fontaine. 76 00:02:12.440 --> 00:02:15.520 Oh, I had a letter from her yesterday. 77 00:02:15.980 --> 00:02:17.100 Bless her. 78 00:02:17.640 --> 00:02:18.940 She's a lovely person. 79 00:02:19.260 --> 00:02:20.280 Did you ever know her? 80 00:02:20.300 --> 00:02:21.240 No, I've never met her. 81 00:02:21.300 --> 00:02:22.660 But I know she's a good friend of yours. 82 00:02:22.740 --> 00:02:23.180 Yes. 83 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:26.420 She wants me to come down to Panama to visit her. 84 00:02:26.440 --> 00:02:29.340 It's so strange to have her down in Panama there. 85 00:02:29.440 --> 00:02:30.720 She lives on a farm. 86 00:02:32.940 --> 00:02:34.780 And she married this man. 87 00:02:34.900 --> 00:02:39.460 I remember she had invited all our friends on the south coast of France 88 00:02:39.460 --> 00:02:42.020 to meet the only man she ever loved, she said. 89 00:02:42.020 --> 00:02:43.360 And he was very attractive. 90 00:02:43.900 --> 00:02:46.100 And as soon as she married him, he was shocked, you know. 91 00:02:46.140 --> 00:02:46.600 I remember that. 92 00:02:46.640 --> 00:02:48.100 And it's terribly sad. 93 00:02:48.620 --> 00:02:51.000 But she stays with him all the time and takes him around with her. 94 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:51.900 He can't talk. 95 00:02:51.900 --> 00:02:52.780 He can't eat. 96 00:02:52.860 --> 00:02:54.820 He has to have a man with him all the time. 97 00:02:55.300 --> 00:02:58.060 But she's very faithful and stays with him. 98 00:02:58.160 --> 00:03:02.460 I'd like to go down and see her, but it's so far away, Panama, you know. 99 00:03:04.180 --> 00:03:09.400 And I told you the story about Dureyev, I think, inviting her to come to Washington. 100 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:09.940 No. 101 00:03:09.940 --> 00:03:13.360 She invited her to come to Washington for something he was doing, and she wore it back. 102 00:03:13.460 --> 00:03:15.560 She said, I'm sorry, I just can't come. 103 00:03:15.580 --> 00:03:17.340 My favorite cow was sick. 104 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:21.160 Marco with a cow. 105 00:03:24.220 --> 00:03:24.940 It's strange. 106 00:03:25.140 --> 00:03:26.860 Do you remember the first time you met her? 107 00:03:26.860 --> 00:03:28.940 It was in Italy, and you and Tom were... 108 00:03:29.620 --> 00:03:31.480 It was in Elba, the island of Elba. 109 00:03:31.480 --> 00:03:32.420 We were sitting in a swing. 110 00:03:32.580 --> 00:03:36.360 I remember very well this beautiful girl kept walking up and down in front of us. 111 00:03:36.880 --> 00:03:40.520 And finally she came up and she said, you're Ruth Page, aren't you? 112 00:03:40.540 --> 00:03:41.420 And that's the way we met. 113 00:03:41.940 --> 00:03:43.000 I said, I guess I am. 114 00:03:43.460 --> 00:03:45.680 And then we've been friends ever since. 115 00:03:46.660 --> 00:03:48.280 She's a wonderful person. 116 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:55.660 You took a trip together, sailing in the Greek islands when nobody went. 117 00:03:56.020 --> 00:03:57.720 Yes, we got all over the Greek islands together. 118 00:03:58.100 --> 00:04:00.580 Tom took just a funny old boat. 119 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:01.380 I don't know. 120 00:04:01.980 --> 00:04:03.400 It was a terrible boat. 121 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:07.140 And we went all around the Greek islands. 122 00:04:07.160 --> 00:04:08.660 We had a wonderful trip, though. 123 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:12.960 It was you and Margo Fontaine and Tom and Freddie Ashton. 124 00:04:13.900 --> 00:04:14.940 Yes, John Crenkel. 125 00:04:16.960 --> 00:04:18.780 We had a marvelous trip. 126 00:04:20.140 --> 00:04:21.400 It was not a very lavish... 127 00:04:22.080 --> 00:04:24.000 I mean, nothing was set up, right? 128 00:04:24.080 --> 00:04:26.520 No, it was a very simple ship. 129 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:28.220 It was nothing at all. 130 00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:30.420 It was just an old cargo ship. 131 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:31.720 I guess I don't know what it was. 132 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:33.180 So that's something we found there. 133 00:04:33.700 --> 00:04:36.540 They said that we could rent it, so we did. 134 00:04:37.660 --> 00:04:41.700 And then you had Greek names for each other, you and Margo Fontaine. 135 00:04:41.760 --> 00:04:46.000 Yes, I always called her Mara Gula, and she calls me Ruth Ackie. 136 00:04:49.740 --> 00:04:52.200 And you used to go shopping together in Paris. 137 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:54.620 That I don't remember, did we? 138 00:04:54.840 --> 00:04:57.480 Well, according to the things I've read, 139 00:04:57.480 --> 00:05:01.260 there were times, one time, when you were just in the middle 140 00:05:01.260 --> 00:05:04.160 of having a terrible time choreographing something, 141 00:05:04.580 --> 00:05:08.540 and she came into town and was there to just do a little shopping, 142 00:05:08.760 --> 00:05:13.100 and the two of you just took off and did some shopping, and other times. 143 00:05:13.140 --> 00:05:15.280 She likes clothes very much. 144 00:05:15.320 --> 00:05:16.160 Yes, she does. 145 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:18.280 Oh, she wears wonderful clothes. 146 00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:20.320 She really pays attention to what she wears, 147 00:05:20.340 --> 00:05:21.660 and she always looks marvelous. 148 00:05:22.060 --> 00:05:24.940 She's a beautiful girl, and she has a beautiful figure, 149 00:05:24.960 --> 00:05:26.240 and everything looks nice on her, 150 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:27.640 so it doesn't matter much what she wears, 151 00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:29.460 but she's very fuzzy about what she wears. 152 00:05:29.820 --> 00:05:31.340 She's just the opposite from me. 153 00:05:32.120 --> 00:05:34.660 You once wrote about her that you thought that she was, 154 00:05:34.660 --> 00:05:39.960 at the time that you met her, the best ballerina in the world. 155 00:05:40.320 --> 00:05:41.760 She was, I think, yeah. 156 00:05:41.960 --> 00:05:45.540 She was a perfectionist, and everything she did was very perfect. 157 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:48.960 And then she thought her career was over, I think. 158 00:05:49.760 --> 00:05:52.640 I thought she was getting too old to dance, when Nureyev came along, 159 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:55.280 and he was such a big smash hit, 160 00:05:55.280 --> 00:05:58.260 and so he sort of brought her back into prominence again, 161 00:05:58.260 --> 00:05:59.520 and they were wonderful together. 162 00:05:59.660 --> 00:06:01.140 I think they were marvelous together. 163 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:04.540 I've seen them. They were wonderful together. 164 00:06:04.620 --> 00:06:05.780 There was a wonderful partnership. 165 00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:10.180 He was very intelligent, and I think he was a great artist, too. 166 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:11.000 Nureyev. 167 00:06:11.220 --> 00:06:11.740 Yeah. 168 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:15.500 You said once before that it was time, you thought, 169 00:06:15.700 --> 00:06:17.680 perhaps for him to stop dancing. 170 00:06:17.940 --> 00:06:21.100 Yes, it was, but he went on anyway and did all right. 171 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:23.480 He started doing more modern dance. 172 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:27.460 He was too old to do ballet dancing, but he switched around a bit, 173 00:06:28.280 --> 00:06:30.240 and so he kept on quite a long while. 174 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:32.200 I don't know how old he was when he stopped. 175 00:06:32.620 --> 00:06:35.680 The time to stop is supposed to be 40, but lots of people go on to 50. 176 00:06:36.380 --> 00:06:38.360 Pavlova went on until she died. 177 00:06:38.500 --> 00:06:40.000 She was 52, I believe. 178 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:44.140 I don't know how long Margo danced, but I said, 179 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:46.020 why are you ever going to stop, Margo? 180 00:06:46.580 --> 00:06:48.820 And she said, I said, I think it's time for you to stop. 181 00:06:48.820 --> 00:06:52.380 She said, well, I'll stop when nobody wants to see me anymore. 182 00:06:52.380 --> 00:06:56.400 So of course she went on much too long. 183 00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:00.800 Now, in your own case, you danced into your 50s. 184 00:07:01.100 --> 00:07:03.360 Yes, I went on too long, I'm sure. 185 00:07:04.180 --> 00:07:05.200 Why do you say that, Ruth? 186 00:07:05.280 --> 00:07:07.480 Well, because 50s, too old to dance. 187 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:12.020 You were a sensation in Frankie and Johnny when you were 50. 188 00:07:12.340 --> 00:07:14.100 Was I 50 that old then? 189 00:07:14.640 --> 00:07:16.500 Well, that, yeah, maybe, I don't know. 190 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:19.320 That was a part that was sort of different. 191 00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:23.320 It depends on the kind of dancing that you do. 192 00:07:23.460 --> 00:07:26.600 Yes, I never did much straight classical dancing. 193 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:29.960 I never did Swan Lake or Sleeping Beauty or any of those big classical ballets. 194 00:07:30.340 --> 00:07:33.600 I wasn't interested in them at all, dancing them. 195 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:35.740 I mean, I like to look at them, somebody else did them, 196 00:07:36.100 --> 00:07:38.500 but in that I didn't like to look at very much. 197 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:44.540 There was a time when you stepped into a performance of one of your ballets 198 00:07:44.540 --> 00:07:50.220 when the ballerina got sick at the very last moment. 199 00:07:50.940 --> 00:07:52.200 What ballet was that? 200 00:07:52.700 --> 00:07:54.200 I will now tell you. 201 00:07:58.300 --> 00:07:59.320 Maybe Frankie. 202 00:08:00.180 --> 00:08:01.440 No, it wasn't Frankie. 203 00:08:01.760 --> 00:08:04.800 It was another one and it was an especially difficult one 204 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:08.740 and one that was having a terrible time getting started. 205 00:08:09.900 --> 00:08:10.360 Hmm. 206 00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:13.240 Was it part of Billy Sunday? 207 00:08:13.420 --> 00:08:15.200 Now, see, I've asked a question, I don't remember. 208 00:08:15.820 --> 00:08:20.320 And apparently you danced it wonderfully because the reviews were terrific, 209 00:08:20.380 --> 00:08:24.560 but you were reluctant to do it because you felt that it was late 210 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:25.940 for you to be still dancing. 211 00:08:26.020 --> 00:08:28.580 I think you were well into your 50s at the time that it happened. 212 00:08:29.540 --> 00:08:30.540 Well, that is too late. 213 00:08:30.540 --> 00:08:32.860 You just stepped in. It was somewhere abroad. 214 00:08:34.420 --> 00:08:35.080 In Paris. 215 00:08:35.640 --> 00:08:36.880 I think so. 216 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.640 It was either then Billy Sunday or Frankie. 217 00:08:42.140 --> 00:08:43.200 Yes, I think it was. 218 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:44.420 Those two ballets we did there. 219 00:08:45.020 --> 00:08:46.160 I think it was Billy Sunday. 220 00:08:46.160 --> 00:08:48.520 Oh, we did another ballet in Paris, too. 221 00:08:48.640 --> 00:08:50.900 We did a ballet that I did called Revenge. 222 00:08:51.220 --> 00:08:53.260 Ah, yes. I wanted to ask you about that today. 223 00:08:53.660 --> 00:08:56.440 Yes. Well, I think that's the best ballet I ever did, 224 00:08:56.660 --> 00:09:00.640 but I don't know why I never did it after. 225 00:09:00.820 --> 00:09:03.320 It had a great big success in Paris. 226 00:09:03.640 --> 00:09:04.740 In 1951. 227 00:09:04.740 --> 00:09:05.260 Yes. 228 00:09:08.300 --> 00:09:11.580 I don't know why I never did it after that, but I never did. 229 00:09:11.640 --> 00:09:14.700 After Paris, I thought I'd better let Well Enough Alone. 230 00:09:15.280 --> 00:09:16.900 It went so well there. 231 00:09:17.020 --> 00:09:20.440 We did it every night with the Champs-Elysees company. 232 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:24.460 And it was called Revenge because I'd had that difficulty 233 00:09:24.460 --> 00:09:26.900 with Frankie and Johnny and Billy Sunday the year before. 234 00:09:27.500 --> 00:09:30.240 I come back and do a ballet called Revenge, 235 00:09:30.580 --> 00:09:33.020 but it was just purely an accident. 236 00:09:33.020 --> 00:09:35.460 But I think it was an awfully good ballet. 237 00:09:35.880 --> 00:09:37.700 Clave designed it. 238 00:09:37.820 --> 00:09:38.720 Antony Clave. 239 00:09:38.900 --> 00:09:41.840 Yes, and his sets and his costumes were really... 240 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:42.800 They were marvelous. 241 00:09:42.880 --> 00:09:43.600 Quite something. 242 00:09:43.800 --> 00:09:45.060 They were wonderful. 243 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:49.460 I always say that the success of the ballet was due to Clave, not me. 244 00:09:51.140 --> 00:09:52.020 I don't know. 245 00:09:52.060 --> 00:09:55.500 You found him and you brought him along. 246 00:09:56.380 --> 00:09:57.580 You are the one... 247 00:09:57.580 --> 00:09:59.560 Do you remember your first meeting with Clave? 248 00:10:00.400 --> 00:10:00.920 No. 249 00:10:00.920 --> 00:10:03.100 It was in Paris. 250 00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:04.960 And you went to lunch. 251 00:10:05.180 --> 00:10:05.900 Oh, yes. 252 00:10:06.100 --> 00:10:07.300 It was his old mother, wasn't it? 253 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:09.080 Yes, she was an extraordinary person. 254 00:10:09.460 --> 00:10:10.640 She came out of Spain. 255 00:10:10.660 --> 00:10:11.980 She was very old. 256 00:10:13.380 --> 00:10:15.520 I'd never seen anybody anything like her. 257 00:10:15.620 --> 00:10:16.700 She was fascinating. 258 00:10:17.020 --> 00:10:18.560 Yes, I remember that very well now. 259 00:10:18.760 --> 00:10:19.680 And she was a painter. 260 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:20.720 Yes. 261 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:24.620 She had had a stroke, I believe, and was painting with her left hand. 262 00:10:24.620 --> 00:10:25.480 Yes, that's right. 263 00:10:26.280 --> 00:10:27.700 I'd forgotten all about her. 264 00:10:28.020 --> 00:10:30.060 And you hit it off right away, you and Clave. 265 00:10:30.220 --> 00:10:30.920 Oh, yes. 266 00:10:31.780 --> 00:10:33.080 We worked awfully well together. 267 00:10:33.420 --> 00:10:35.020 I loved working with him. 268 00:10:38.400 --> 00:10:41.580 The ballet was a huge success. 269 00:10:43.040 --> 00:10:50.480 And it was not one of those that seems to have had a lot of difficulty in your giving birth to it, 270 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:54.280 unlike Billy Sunday, which just seemed to take forever and drag on, 271 00:10:54.380 --> 00:10:55.880 and there were all kinds of problems with it. 272 00:10:56.020 --> 00:10:58.340 Trovatore seems to have come together fairly easily. 273 00:10:58.360 --> 00:11:00.860 Well, the music is wonderful, and the story is wonderful, 274 00:11:00.860 --> 00:11:03.400 and it has a marvelous part, the part of Azuchena. 275 00:11:03.420 --> 00:11:06.560 That's probably where I stepped in and did it for her, maybe. 276 00:11:07.220 --> 00:11:10.380 Sonia Rova did the part, and she was terrific in it. 277 00:11:11.340 --> 00:11:15.000 And this pas de deux she does with her son, with Manrico, is awfully interesting, 278 00:11:15.020 --> 00:11:16.160 and the gypsy scene. 279 00:11:16.880 --> 00:11:19.140 I liked that scene very, very much. 280 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:24.440 And I think Alicia Markova did the Leonora. 281 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:31.660 Yes, it was well cast, and well, it was sort of foolproof, I think. 282 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:33.100 The parts were so wonderful. 283 00:11:33.620 --> 00:11:39.160 Yeah, and Van Grove, Isaac Van Grove did the music and arranged the orchestration. 284 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:42.080 I worked with him a lot, all my correspondents. 285 00:11:43.220 --> 00:11:44.000 We were never together. 286 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:50.120 He knew my work very well, and I knew how clever he was at arranging. 287 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:53.500 He knew opera very well. He'd been in opera all his life. 288 00:11:53.880 --> 00:11:55.960 And he knew all the stories and the music, 289 00:11:56.220 --> 00:11:59.360 and he knew how to shorten them and put them together for a ballet. 290 00:12:00.160 --> 00:12:01.500 That's what he did for me. 291 00:12:02.340 --> 00:12:07.600 He seems to have had, compared to some of your other working relationships with composers, 292 00:12:08.180 --> 00:12:15.680 it seems as though Van Grove had a sense of what you needed in order for a ballet to work. 293 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:16.300 That's right. 294 00:12:16.300 --> 00:12:27.200 I think by contrast of the problems with Remy Gassman. 295 00:12:27.940 --> 00:12:33.660 Yes, he was a very good musician, but he wasn't good for me at all. 296 00:12:34.460 --> 00:12:36.520 I didn't like what he did for me at all. 297 00:12:37.280 --> 00:12:38.420 And it took so long. 298 00:12:39.020 --> 00:12:43.760 He composed the music for Billy Sunday, and it dragged on for years. 299 00:12:43.760 --> 00:12:45.020 Yes, and I still didn't like it. 300 00:12:45.020 --> 00:12:48.760 And then at the end I had somebody else redo the whole thing. 301 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:49.840 Finally. 302 00:12:50.140 --> 00:12:50.920 Yes, finally. 303 00:12:53.500 --> 00:12:57.700 Now, in talking about Revenge, Revenge was a great success, 304 00:12:58.380 --> 00:13:01.460 and you talked about it sort of getting Revenge. 305 00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:11.940 Let's go back to 1950, the year before, when you were the first American to come to... 306 00:13:11.940 --> 00:13:12.600 Is there a problem? 307 00:13:13.140 --> 00:13:13.960 He has changed the battery. 308 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:14.940 He has changed the battery? 309 00:13:15.260 --> 00:13:16.880 Okay, let's do it, because this is important. 310 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:21.000 This is a very important moment in the history of the dance. 311 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:23.420 Let me tell you, we're about to get into it here. 312 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:24.740 Oh. 313 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:26.300 The 1950s. 314 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:27.800 No, you're way above. 315 00:13:34.900 --> 00:13:38.880 You brought a program to Paris. 316 00:13:38.880 --> 00:13:46.520 You were the first American ballet company really to appear in Paris since the war. 317 00:13:47.980 --> 00:13:48.860 I don't remember that. 318 00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:51.680 I know we went, but I don't know we were the first one. 319 00:13:52.860 --> 00:13:56.480 And with you, you brought José Limón. 320 00:13:57.240 --> 00:13:58.800 Yes, yes. 321 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:00.520 He was a wonderful artist. 322 00:14:01.140 --> 00:14:03.280 We did his ballet, the Moors-Bavin. 323 00:14:04.220 --> 00:14:07.460 Now, why did you decide to bring him along with you? 324 00:14:07.460 --> 00:14:13.860 Well, first of all, he's very handsome, and I knew he'd be good in my ballets, and I liked his ballet. 325 00:14:13.900 --> 00:14:16.880 There were only four people in it, and it was a very good ballet. 326 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:20.220 And I thought, well, it would be good to have somebody besides me. 327 00:14:20.760 --> 00:14:22.080 That's why I brought him. 328 00:14:23.880 --> 00:14:34.340 You were aware of what had happened the year before, when the Paris Opera Ballet had come to New York. 329 00:14:38.040 --> 00:14:40.820 Do you remember what kind of reception they had had? 330 00:14:41.380 --> 00:14:44.080 I don't think they were very successful somehow. 331 00:14:44.920 --> 00:14:48.600 I don't remember what they did or anything, to tell you the truth. 332 00:14:50.560 --> 00:14:52.060 Now it's a marvelous company. 333 00:14:52.520 --> 00:14:56.480 I went to some of their classes, and they've got great dancers. 334 00:14:56.640 --> 00:14:57.840 But what they do, I don't know. 335 00:14:57.840 --> 00:14:59.040 They've got too many dancers. 336 00:14:59.040 --> 00:15:03.820 They've got about 90, and they're all beautiful, and they're all have technique. 337 00:15:04.400 --> 00:15:08.920 They've got everything, but they don't seem to do very much. 338 00:15:09.040 --> 00:15:09.620 I don't know. 339 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:18.540 I think even then you wrote some things that you were not impressed in 1949 when they came to New York. 340 00:15:19.620 --> 00:15:22.940 But apparently there was a political demonstration. 341 00:15:23.760 --> 00:15:34.220 And at their opening performance, they were booed because the head of the ballet was considered to have been, 342 00:15:34.220 --> 00:15:37.100 was once rumored to have been a collaborator with the Nazis. 343 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:38.660 Oh, maybe that was Sir Sifar? 344 00:15:38.920 --> 00:15:40.340 Yes, it was Sir Sifar. 345 00:15:40.700 --> 00:15:40.700 346 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:41.240 Yes. 347 00:15:41.540 --> 00:15:43.240 I don't know whether he was or not. 348 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:44.540 I don't know at all. 349 00:15:45.100 --> 00:15:48.980 He was very attractive, and he was a good dancer. 350 00:15:50.780 --> 00:15:55.120 And I remember there was some deliberate, what it was, I don't really know. 351 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:57.400 Well, they were booed opening night. 352 00:15:58.100 --> 00:16:04.880 And then the New York dance community, some of the dancers, had a picket line, 353 00:16:05.020 --> 00:16:09.700 a nightly picket line outside the theater in New York where the Paris Opera Ballet was performing. 354 00:16:10.580 --> 00:16:12.980 And it was a very... 355 00:16:13.540 --> 00:16:14.780 Sounds interesting. 356 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:21.220 Anybody who can get a picket line, that must be a very interesting situation. 357 00:16:21.920 --> 00:16:29.740 I think that picket line is what caused the problem for you the next year when you went to Paris, 358 00:16:29.880 --> 00:16:35.740 because the Parisian ballet community was just waiting to get back at the Americans. 359 00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:40.420 Yes, that's right. Maybe that was true. I think that was true. 360 00:16:40.420 --> 00:16:43.420 And so, opening night... 361 00:16:44.860 --> 00:16:48.000 We were hissed. I loved it. 362 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:50.680 You loved it? Why? 363 00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:57.020 Oh, if you're just sort of a mediocre success or a mediocre fetish, kind of dull, 364 00:16:57.180 --> 00:17:02.500 but if people hiss you and boo you, then you know that you're something interesting at any rate. 365 00:17:04.520 --> 00:17:12.200 In fact, the Paris Opera Ballet had bought 250 seats in the balcony of the Champs-Elysees Theater, 366 00:17:12.220 --> 00:17:14.560 which was where you were performing, for opening night. 367 00:17:15.260 --> 00:17:19.900 And they were there to retaliate, and they hissed and booed their way. 368 00:17:20.700 --> 00:17:28.880 At the end of every ballet, of every dance, they would begin to hiss and boo before the applause could even begin. 369 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:31.580 Well, I think that's fascinating. I've forgotten about that. 370 00:17:32.320 --> 00:17:44.420 But then the reviews that came out later were very positive for both Frankie and Johnny and Billy Sunday, 371 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:49.180 which you performed there. It really was a triumph. 372 00:17:49.620 --> 00:17:55.260 Yeah, well, who came to our rescue there was Larionov and Goncharova. 373 00:17:55.260 --> 00:17:59.340 They were two very well-known artists and sort of critics of the dance. 374 00:17:59.660 --> 00:18:03.060 They came out 100% for us, and that helped us a very great deal. 375 00:18:03.320 --> 00:18:08.060 They'd never seen anything like a real, realistic ballet like Frankie and Johnny, 376 00:18:08.760 --> 00:18:11.820 one that was down to earth in everyday life. 377 00:18:11.980 --> 00:18:18.500 They'd mostly seen classical ballet, so this was kind of a shock for them. I can understand that. 378 00:18:18.500 --> 00:18:31.200 It was a shock, and for the proper French, the content of that particular ballet was also a shock for some of them. 379 00:18:31.300 --> 00:18:32.360 Yeah, I think so. 380 00:18:33.500 --> 00:18:37.500 They objected to the prostitutes. They objected to the theme. 381 00:18:38.420 --> 00:18:44.920 There were a couple of lesbians in it. There had been something closed, I think, just before we got there, 382 00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:50.020 because it was about lesbians. There were two lesbians in my Frankie and Johnny. 383 00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:53.660 You can hardly notice them. They're two girls that come in sort of dancing together. 384 00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:59.300 They were only on for a couple of minutes, but they objected to the lesbians. 385 00:19:01.300 --> 00:19:03.620 Well, that's sort of silly, but anyway, that's the way it was. 386 00:19:04.060 --> 00:19:07.420 It was silly. We need to change the cassette, and then we'll go on. 387 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:16.200 Shall we switch that?