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This is the Root Page interview.

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This will be the name of the barz and taran on channel one.

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Channel two will be the V-micro.

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Channel two will be a mix of Lavalier and the shotgun for Thea, Flanima and Riket.

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This is called...

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Channel one.

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And it's the month of 03, number one.

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Her name is Katherine Healy.

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She's quite well known because she's won all kinds of prizes.

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She's a very...

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Roll, everybody.

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Okay?

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And when you need to change tapes, let me know.

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Okay.

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Not that it's necessarily the place to begin and it's sort of boring to begin at the beginning.

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But just for this one interview, I thought we might start out today talking a little

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bit about your childhood and your family and Indianapolis, Indiana, and your mother and

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your father, who seem to be fascinating, fascinating and interesting people.

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Tell me a little bit about your father.

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Well, I remember I was very, very close to my father.

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He was sort of...

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I don't know.

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We can have a tea, Carmen.

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He was very handsome and he...

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We were with our mother all the time.

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My father didn't like to be bothered with children.

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And I remember he was always writing articles for the Gentleman's Literary Club.

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I remember from a child always hearing about, you know, be quiet, your father's writing

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a paper for the Gentleman's Literary Club.

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I never saw any of those papers.

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But anyway, that's what he did.

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And he didn't like stupid conversation.

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He said if we wanted to say something in the morning, we could talk.

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But if we didn't talk, didn't say something interesting, don't talk at all.

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So we started learning poems and reciting poems for him every morning.

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At breakfast.

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At breakfast.

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So every morning we'd come down with a different poem to recite for father.

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And that pleased him very much.

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He liked that for breakfast.

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Poems for breakfast.

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So to this day, I like reciting poems for breakfast.

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It was an odd idea, but that's what he did.

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And then when we used to go down to Hyannisport in the summer, we had a cottage down there.

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And he never went to the beach with us.

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Mother always took us to the beach and he was glad to get rid of us, I can imagine.

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He liked to stay home and read.

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And he was a very literary person.

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James Whitcomb Riley was a friend of yours or a friend of your father's?

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He was a friend of my father's, yes.

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And I remember he lived in Indianapolis and I would go down with my father to see him.

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He lived on a place called Lockerbie Street.

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They didn't pave it.

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I don't think it's paved to this day, is where James Whitcomb Riley lived.

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And I don't remember very much about him, but he was a great, great friend of my father's.

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And they met each other at the drug store of all places.

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And my father would have a piece of pie every day.

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And apparently James Whitcomb Riley would too.

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And finally James Whitcomb Riley said to him,

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Well, I see my friends, you like pie.

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That was the beginning of their conversation, the beginning of their friendship.

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They were friends for a long, long time.

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And I remember my father, thank you, darling, took me all over the state with him,

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trying to raise money for the James Whitcomb Riley Children's Hospital.

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He started this, it was the first modern children's hospital in the world, in the United States, I think.

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And I remember he would always, his argument was,

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Well, if you'll give me money for this children's hospital,

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then you won't have to spend any money on the old people.

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They'll all be, if they're taking care of property with their children,

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then they won't have any problems with the old people, which I think sounds very intelligent.

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So that's how he got the money for the James Whitcomb Riley Children's Hospital.

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What else do I remember about my father?

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Well, nothing special.

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He was the youngest of 12 children.

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That's right. Imagine.

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Were you close to the other children in your father's family?

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I mean, did your family see very much of them?

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No, we never saw any of them. I don't know where they all were.

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But he was named Lafayette.

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And his father was named Lafayette, and my brother was named Lafayette.

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But he had a son, and he said, I won't be called Lafayette.

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That's too fancy a name. The boys will make fun of me at this school.

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So that was the last of all the Lafayettes.

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They called them Laith and didn't like that.

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So that was the last of the Lafayettes.

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Lafayette. And they called my father Fayette, I remember.

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Fayette, that's a strange name.

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And he was born in Virginia, but he moved up to Kentucky.

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And then from Kentucky, he moved up to Indianapolis.

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I don't know how he happened to come there.

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But we used to go down and visit in Kentucky, where he used to go.

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And that was kind of fun for us children because it was a farm,

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a sort of a farm, and we each got a pony to take care of.

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So I used to remember going to Kentucky a lot to this farm where we had ponies.

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Mine was named Lee. And I had a lovely time with Lee.

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We used to have to clean them and ride on them and feed them and everything.

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It was sort of fun. I loved it.

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Now you have two brothers. You're a middle child.

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Yes.

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How much older than you is your brother Lafayette?

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About two years older than mine.

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And Irvine is?

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About two years younger. A little over a year younger.

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Did you play a lot together, the three of you?

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Yes, I should say we did. We used to love to dance.

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The three of you used to dance?

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Yes, no, especially with Lafayette. Irvine didn't dance much.

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He was more serious. But Lafayette and I used to dance all the time.

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We did all the latest dances. We always knew the, whatever they were,

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we always learned all the latest dances.

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We would tango and Charleston. We adored that.

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My younger brother was more serious.

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I remember one time when he was having his portrait painted.

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Mother and I thought we were trying to keep him amused.

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So he'd sit still. We kept talking and trying our best to entertain my little brother.

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And finally he said, oh, can't we just sit still and think?

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I thought that was cute.

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He's a very original person from the beginning.

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We were always scared to death that his room would blow up

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because he had microscopes in there with all kinds of strange specimens and stuff

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that he was always looking at. And we were not allowed to go into his room ever.

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And he's not a doctor?

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Yes, he's a very famous one. He's much more famous than I am.

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He's a heart specialist. He's had his picture twice on Time magazine cover.

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And he's written a lot of books too. He's just finished one.

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I asked him if he'd send it to me. He said, no, I won't send it to you

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because you wouldn't understand a word of it. So I said, oh, all right.

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There's one around here, one of his books is around here someplace.

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One of his early ones. It's perfectly comprehensible. He writes a lot.

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He's still, he's now high on sports. He started the Cleveland Clinic.

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Oh, the famous Cleveland Clinic. I didn't realize that.

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It was started by your brother.

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Yeah. And it's apparently still a marvelous clinic. He says it's still marvelous.

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Oh, yes.

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Have you ever been there?

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No, but I've certainly read about it.

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Yeah, it's supposed to be marvelous.

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And then your father was a doctor. And he practiced, were his offices in your home?

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No.

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He had separate offices.

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He was a no-slot near specialist, yes. And he invented a sort of a special cure for sinus.

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Oh.

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Uh-huh. And he went to the war, whatever war that was. I guess it was 19, wasn't there a war in 1940 or something?

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Yes.

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He went off to that war. And they used this, this trachea, was some kind of a tracheal, tracheal.

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When they put in your throat to cure your sinus, I'm very vague about it because I really don't know much about it.

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I never had sinus trouble.

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And then about your mother, your mother and father met in Germany, in Leipzig.

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Yeah.

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Sorry. You want to, your signal will meet that you want to move the camera.

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I'm just moving.

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Yes. Go ahead.

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Yes. They met in Leipzig.

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Laurie, while we're doing that, why don't you come sit over here because then Ruth can look at you over this way, which is sort of at the right camera angle.

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Well, it just makes the camera angle better. So why don't you come so Ruth can see you like over here. Okay?

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Then she'll be looking at everybody. Everybody will be in the right direction. The entire audience.

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How am I supposed to talk to her?

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No, no, no, no, no.

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No, you're not. But when you, you're, it's a natural thing that you do is that you include everybody.

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And all of the rest of us are toward the camera side and she isn't. And so when your eyes look over there, it's just the way you do.

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It's fine. You talk to me. You talk to the camera.

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Okay.

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I asked you about your parents met in Leipzig in Germany, right?

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My mother was studying music there. She came from a little town in either Indiana or Teroholt. Where is that?

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Indiana.

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She came from there and her father was German and her mother was French.

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And her mother died and she married somebody else and they didn't get along. So my father sent her to Germany to study music.

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And so she was there for five years. Didn't come home at all. And that's where she met my father. And they got married in Switzerland.

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She was very young then when she left home.

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I guess so.

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Perhaps something like 17. I think I read. Very young.

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And then she met your father who was studying medicine there.

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I don't know what he was doing. He was just wandering around Leipzig I guess. I don't know what he was doing.

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It's wonderful. One of the books I read said that he'd gone there to study medicine because he'd run out of good places to study medicine in the United States.

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Maybe he was just running around. I mean you may be right.

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I don't know. I have no idea.

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But then and so it's strange to people from Indiana to meet each other.

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Meet in Leipzig. Yes it is. Yeah. So it's sort of strange.

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And then they came back.

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Well he brought her back to Indianapolis and she didn't want to come to Indianapolis at all.

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So she started. She was the one who started the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra and the Indianapolis Matinee Musica, both musical organizations you see.

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So that gave her something interesting to do there.

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She was always playing the piano.

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She started them about the time that you were born. I read somewhere that you were called the Symphony Baby.

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That's right. I was called the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra Baby because she had to stay home on account.

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She was pregnant with me and I was always kicking around and making her miserable.

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Now she used to play the piano all the time, every day, for long periods of time.

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Now did anybody in your family ever learn to play a musical instrument? Any of the children? You? Either of your brothers?

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No. Everyone used to play the ukulele I believe.

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I learned a little bit of the piano but it didn't go very far because my mother said my hands were too small.

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I was into dancing and she said I'd better just stick to my dancing.

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Now tell us about the beginning of your dancing.

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I can't remember. I think I came out of my mother's womb dancing.

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I don't think I ever learned. I just started to dance. I always wanted to dance.

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There are some stories about your mother playing the piano for you for guests and you're liking to dance for guests. Do you remember that?

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Yes. I was improvised while she played the piano. I think I must have been a horrible child because I liked to dance for people.

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So I'd say to mother, now who's coming to dinner tonight and can I dance for them?

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After dinner I would always dance and I never knew when to stop. I'm sure it must have been horrible.

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What kind of dances did you do? Did you get dressed up in costumes?

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No. I don't remember what I wore. I don't remember what I danced. I just made them up as I went along.

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Can you remember the first time you ever saw a ballet performed?

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Yes. Ana Pavlova was the first one I ever saw. Of course that changed my whole life. It changed everybody's life.

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Whoever saw her dance, like old Freddie Ashton, all my generation of dancers were inspired by Pavlova.

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She was so great and so really inspiring. I can remember her even now. I can see her.

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Tell us what you see remembering back. The very first time you saw her dance.

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When she did the dying swan, it was so poetic. It made everybody cry. You'd sit there and just weep.

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Then she did a dance called the dragonfly. I can't show it to you very well with my teacup on my...

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They were simple dances but they were lovely. Then she did one called the Pavlova gavotte.

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She was so elegant. She was all dressed in yellow with a high directoire costume and a train.

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She did it with a partner. She was just the last word in elegance. She had a very elegant quality.

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Then she did a bacchanal that was very extraordinary. She came in with her partner, Mother Sarah with Mordegon,

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but he was already gone by the time I came in. They came in holding this scarf.

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She was very exciting. Everything she did was exciting. There's never been a dancer like her before or since.

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How old the first time you saw her? I think I was about 15.

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You were by that time seriously considering dancing as a career for yourself?

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I never considered anything. I just did what I every did. I don't know when I started considering it as a career.

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I never thought of it as a career. I just did what I had to do.

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You're 15 years old. I think so. You go to high school in Indianapolis. I went to Tudor Hall in Indianapolis.

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You went to Tudor Hall, which was an independent private school. You had a little friend named Eleanor Shaler,

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with whom you used to dance. Tell us about Eleanor.

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She was just a little friend of mine. We used to like to dance. We made up all our dances.

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I remember we did a barefoot dance. It was the Vice President Fairbanks at that time who lived in Indianapolis.

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He gave a party. She and I danced on the lawn. Our pictures were in the paper.

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It was considered so shocking for these two little girls to be dancing barefoot. Wasn't that shocking?

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Our families were furious with us. You didn't like to have your picture in the paper in those days.

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It was considered very mauve-goo to have your picture in the paper.

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I remember that with Eleanor. She didn't dance much longer. I don't know what happened to Eleanor. I have no idea.

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Back again to the first time you saw Pavlova dance. Do you, as you remember it,

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really think that there was this sense of electricity that everyone in the audience sitting there felt?

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Yes. Everyone. Not just you? No, not just me. Everybody.

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Everybody was, she was intoxicating. I remember Mother saw her before I did.

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She said, oh, this was the most thrilling thing she'd ever seen in her life.

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If she came the next year, she'd take me to see her. So she did. But she wasn't with Morgann anymore.

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I may have the years wrong, but I always get dates wrong, but it was a long time ago.

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Okay, so you went to see her, and you're this little girl in the audience. Did you say to yourself,

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I'm going to do that someday? I don't know what I said to myself. I just decided I was going to dance.

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You just decided you were going to dance? Yes. And the manager,

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Ona B. Talbot, who was her manager, took me backstage to meet her.

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And I was thrilled to meet her. When she opened the door, she was stark naked picking her teeth,

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which was a little surprise for a little girl. But anyway, she asked me to come to Chicago

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and study with her that summer, so I did. And I came up here, I think it was to a place called

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the Midway Gardens, which I don't know what's happened to it. But there was a place, I think,

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here called the Midway Gardens where she danced. Now, I may be wrong, but I did come up that summer,

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and took lessons in Chicago. And then she asked me to join the company. And so I did join the company,

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and mother went with me, and then she made me go back to school after I'd finished that year with Paola.

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Now, wait a minute, Ruth. Here you are. You're a 15-year-old girl from Indianapolis, Indiana,

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raised in a very fine conservative family from what we would call a privileged background.

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The year is 1918.

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I think so.

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Okay. Our thereabouts. And you meet Pavlova, and your mother says, and she says,

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come to Chicago and dance with me. And everybody in this very conservative family of yours says, okay.

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Yeah, I guess so. I went there, right?

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No problem.

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We didn't dance with her. I studied with her.

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Well, but to just go off.

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Studied with the company class.

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Your mother came up with you?

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Sure.

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And lived here?

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Yes. I stayed all summer. Mother stayed with me.

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And your mother was glad to do this, didn't mind leaving her symphony activities and things in Indianapolis?

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No. She seemed to be glad enough. Mother was crazy about it. Mother used to come see her dance every night.

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Is it from your mother? You know, most little girls who were growing up, your friend Eleanor, Eleanor Shaler included,

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their mothers were probably teaching them, you know, how to be good, how to be good wives and mothers and housekeepers and so and things.

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We should change the tape.

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We should change the tape. Okay.