(9) I L.J. Pollard , II D. Smith Ontario
Date Of Production
circa 1976
Abstract
This is an audio interview between William F. Grisham’s and the founder of Ebony Film company, Luther J. Pollard. Pollard discusses his childhood, family history, and early career in film and advertising. He also discusses the operations of Ebony Film Corporation, its partnership with Four Wheel Drive Company in Wisconsin, and the film studio’s major stars. The interview was conducted in relation to Grisham's film The Very Last Laugh (1976).
Log
Side 1:
William Grisham: (00:04)
Anybody else [inaudible] bother you because they may just have been, you know, the wrong kind of people. They said that, let's see—I was talking to one of the reporters and they said that they may have bothered you, you know than helped they wanted to talk about your history and they didn't do it very well apparently.
Luther J. Pollard: (00:34)
No, they did it. They never did. They never talked to me about my history because I didn't give it to them.
William Grisham: (00:41)
Ah, that's it.
Luther J. Pollard: (00:41)
I'm preserving that for myself.
William Grisham: (00:43)
Good.
Luther J. Pollard: (00:44)
I've gotten a lot of it written up. My folks, they—Last man that came out here—
William Grisham (00:57)
Let me talk to you now so you just tell me—
Luther Pollard: (1:00)
Pull your chair right over here.
William Grisham: (1:03)
I am. That’s what I want to do. But the thing is I would like to—
Luther J. Pollard (01:07)
Well, you've got so much, I don't know.
William Grisham (01:12)
Your niece. You said that you have lived in Rogers Park, pretty much all of your life. Am I correct? Is this—
Luther J. Pollard (01:21)
Yeah. And I'm from the north side, Edgewater Rogers Park.
William Grisham: (1:25)
Edgewater, Rogers Park.
Luther J. Pollard: (1:26)
She don't know anything about me.
William Grisham (01:28)
She said she didn't. She said that I should have to talk to you directly.
Luther J. Pollard: (1:28)
Very little. Very little.
William Grisham: (1:32)
Right.
Luther J. Pollard (01:34)
You know, it so happens that my brother’s her father, Fritz Pollard.
William Grisham (01:40)
The f—the famous athlete. And do I have my facts straight?
Luther J. Pollard: (1:46)
Go ahead.
William Grisham: (1:47)
Did he go to Brown University?
Luther J. Pollard: (1:50)
He did.
William Grisham: (1:52)
And then he was with Robeson.
Luther J. Pollard: (1:55)
No. He wasn’t—
Speaker 3: (1:56)
Robeson?
William Grisham: (1:57)
Paul Robeson.
Luther J. Pollard: (1:59)
Listen. No, he wasn’t with Robeson. Robeson, he, Robeson came on there while he was at Brown. I think Robeson was not Colgate. Ra. R. R. R. R. I can’t think of that college.
Speaker 3: (2:22)
[inaudible]
Luther J. Pollard: (2:23)
What, will, I—Rutgers. Was it Rutgers?
Luther J. Pollard: (2:25)
What’s that?
William Grisham: (2:27)
Rutgers.
Speaker 3: (2:27)
No.
Luther J. Pollard: (2:28)
Rutgers. Yeah.
William Grisham: (2:29)
It was Rutgers.
Luther J. Pollard: (2:30)
Yeah.
William Grisham (02:31)
All right, but they were in the same football league together. Am I correct?
Luther J. Pollard (02:36)
Oh yeah, they played. You know, Rutgers played Brown and Brown played Rutgers.
William Grisham: (2:41)
Right.
Luther J. Pollard: (2:42)
But, eh, Fritz, I think it was, he was in Brown before Robeson got to Rutgers. But Robeson was in a Rutgers about a year afterwards.
William Grisham (02:51)
‘Bout a year afterwards. Right.
Luther J. Pollard (02:53)
And Robeson was chosen All-American after Fritz. Now, I want to tell you something. My brother was not camp's choice. The first man of color. He was not.
William Grisham: (3:16)
That's what they say though.
Luther J. Pollard: (3:17)
Now he was not.
William Grisham: (3:19)
Yeah.
Luther J Pollard: (3:23)
J.W. Lewis from Boston was.
William Grisham: (3:27)
J.W.
Luther J. Pollard: (3:28)
J.W. Lewis from Boston was. But the selection of those players didn't take in all the colleges. They were, it was, confined to the Ivy League.
William Grisham: (3:43)
Ivy League.
Luther J. Pollard: (3:44)
Yeah. The Ivy League consisted of Princeton, Harvard, and Yale. So after all, nothing was said about it. You see, it didn't have to become popular.
William Grisham: (4:00)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (4:01)
See, but then of course that wouldn't be news because they didn't, it wasn't generally. But then he was. This man Lewis was in school with Theodore Roosevelt and he was chosen. He was afterwards coach for Harvard. He played center on Harvard. He was afterwards coach.
William Grisham: (4:26)
His name was Lewis, right?
Luther J. Pollard (4:27)
And he was a great fellow. And this all was [inaudible], let's say the late eighties.
William Grisham: (4:36)
The late eighties. It’s remarkable.
Luther J. Pollard: (4:38)
[Laughs] But you know, they never said anything about white or colored [inaudible]. I've lived all through that.
William Grisham: (4:46)
Right?
Luther J. Pollard: (4:47)
I know. I never, never in all of my career, my business career, I was never mentioned about being a colored man.
William Grisham: (4:58)
Right.
Luther J. Pollard: (4:59)
You see, because my career was always white. I was executives in white organizations all the way through. And I came up here, all of my friends, my friends, all the way through, until I was 20, 21 years old were white kids. And I did the same thing that they did.
William Grisham: (5:27)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (5:28)
You see.
William Grisham (05:29)
Let me ask you this. Now you were—you lived in this area all your life. Pretty much.
Luther J. Pollard (05:37):
Yeah, sure. Ninety years. But I don't want you to—
William Grisham: (5:41)
No, no.
Luther J. Pollard: (5:42)
You and I are going to be out if you tell all that.
William Grisham (5:44):
No, no, no. I told—I said that you're going to see the article before it's published so that you can read it over. The other thing that I wanted to ask you then is—did you go—did Fritz and you go to the same schools and so on that type of thing, or what?
Luther J. Pollard: (6:00)
Did I go where?
William Grisham: (6:01)
To the—did Fritz and you go to the same schools then, and, or not?
Luther J. Pollard: (6:05)
Did who?
William Grisham: (6:06)
Your brother.
Luther J. Pollard: (6:07)
Oh yes.
William Grisham: (6:08)
You went to the same school.
Luther J. Pollard: (6:09)
Yeah.
William Grisham: (6:09)
And then did you, did you go east to school or did you stay here?
Luther J. Pollard (06:12)
I stayed here.
William Grisham: (6:13)
I see. And then you—
Luther J. Pollard: (6:16)
I went to Lakeview High School.
William Grisham: (6:17)
Lakeview High School.
Luther J. Pollard: (6:18)
Yeah.
William Grisham (6:19)
And then you became a reporter, did you not? Did you become a reporter or were you in advertising originally?
Luther J. Pollard (06:27)
I was in advertising when few people knew anything about it.
William Grisham: (6:31)
Tell me when, will you?
Luther J. Pollard: (6:32)
How about that? A fellow lived right over here. His name was Snyder. [inaudible] literary man. And he liked me pretty well as a kid. When he, when he was eight, when he was in the eighth grade, in Rogers Park schools, he had a little newspaper. That was the first paper in Rogers Park. I forget what they call it. I think they call it the Rogers Park Herald. Well, Al never went any farther than grammar school. And he went from there to the Metropolitan Business College and he studied shorthand.
William Grisham: (7:34)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (7:34)
And he got to be good at his work, he got in the old Chicago [inaudible] Post. He was a columnist. He saw possibilities in advertising for you. He used to talk to me. [inaudible] all about it. He’s a great friend of my father’s. You see, my father operated the barbershop here. Everybody knew, knew about him.
William Grisham (08:08)
Did he come from Mexico, Missouri? Or did I have that mixed up?
Luther J. Pollard (08:14)
The idea is—where did you get that?
William Grisham: (8:16)
You told me on the phone.
Luther J. Pollard: (8:18)
Did I?
William Grisham: (8:18)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (8:19)
No, he’s from Missouri. He was in Mexico, Missouri.
William Grisham: (8:23)
Mexico, Missouri.
Luther J. Pollard: (8:24)
He operated a barber shop in Mexico, Missouri, and the Ringo house. A big, fine palace.
William Grisham: (8:33)
It was a hotel, big hotel.
Luther J. Pollard: (8:35)
Big hotel.
William Grisham: (8:36)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (8:37)
And he came here early. He came here intending to go to Evanston, but didn't. You’re getting all of that are you?
William Grisham (08:49)
Yes. I just want to make sure that this is working. That's all. Can you just you just go on talking now.
Luther J. Pollard (8:56)
And he—
William Grisham: (9:03)
We're all right. We're fine. He came up—
Luther J. Pollard: (9:05)
He came. He came here. Go to Evanston because of the schools, and he got here. He didn't like Evanston. I don't need to tell you the reasons why. And we settled out in the Edgewater and eventually came here. Been here ever since. His family was all raised here.
William Grisham (9:36)
What was his first name?
Luther J. Pollard: (9:38)
John W. Pollard.
William Grisham: (9:39)
John W. Pollard.
Luther J. Pollard: (9:40)
Yes.
William Grisham: (9:41)
And your middle, your middle initial—
Luther J. Pollard: (9:43)
J.
William Grisham: (9:43)
Is—yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (9:44)
Yes.
William Grisham: (9:45)
After him?
Luther J. Pollard (9:46)
Yes, I suppose.
William Grisham: (9:48)
Right.
Luther J. Pollard: (9:49)
My name is supposed to be Louis. Let me see. Anyway, the name—my father was a religious man. He wanted his kids to have religious names and so he called. He didn't like the name I that they intended to give me. So he changed it to Luther.
William Grisham: (10:15)
Very good. Very good. Tell me this—
Luther J. Pollard: (10:22)
You ask me questions.
William Grisham (10:23)
Yes, I will. Now you mentioned Mr. Snyder. Al Snyder.
Luther J. Pollard: (10:27)
Yes.
William Grisham: (10:28)
Now you said that he was—he had gone to a stenographer school and he had learned, also had gone to business school. No. Then did you, did you form some sort of partnership with him in advertising or what?
Luther J. Pollard (10:43)
No.
William Grisham: (10:46)
Uh-huh.
Luther J. Pollard: (10:47)
He was always talking to me about advertising and he finally set up an office. I was about 18, 19 years old. Just out of high school. And I went to work for him and Charles H. Marsh and Company.
William Grisham: (11:10)
Charles H. Marsh
Luther J. Pollard: (11:12)
Marsh. And Company.
William Grisham: (11:13)
And Company.
Luther J. Pollard (11:15)
His partner was Henry P. Williams. One of the best known ad writers in this locality. And I remained there with the Snyder and Marsh until Snyder established a big agency. Called it Snyder Johnson Advertising Agency with offices in the Ellsworth Building.
William Grisham: (11:54)
In the Ellsworth Building?
Luther J. Pollard: (11:55)
Yeah. Marsh was a mighty fine fella. And I helped him in many ways and he let me do everything. So I learned copywriting.
William Grisham: (12:17)
Very good.
Luther J. Pollard: (12:19)
Very [inaudible], especially in writing of sales letters.
William Grisham: (12:26)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (12:28)
Now. Finally. Irving E. Rockwell, a Rogers Park, man, who was in the office furniture business and systems.
William Grisham: (12:45)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (12:46)
Had watched me. He was a great friend of my father's and he had a growing business, big business. I guess the largest of its kind in the United States. He never had an advertising man. So he liked to shout out of the sky. Put me in charge of the advertising of the Rockwell Wabash Company.
William Grisham: (13:16)
The Rockwell Wabash Company.
Luther J. Pollard: (13:16)
Rockwell Wabash Company. He had three or four names. Now Wabash came from the down in Indiana where they maintain a factory.
William Grisham (13:26)
Oh, they made furniture—furniture, did you say?
Luther J. Pollard: (13:29)
Office furniture. Now wait a minute. Then he was back at me and I got the idea of a system. I figured that it was easier going to interest a man in a system or a business in system than to sell them filing cabinets. You would talk system to him first and put the filing cabinets in afterwards.
William Grisham (14:14)
Can you tell me about, about what you're about what year this would be?
Luther J. Pollard (14:18)
Those years?
William Grisham: (14:19)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (14:20)
19-2.
William Grisham: (14:21)
1902?
Luther J. Pollard: (14:22)
Yeah.
William Grisham: (14:24)
Very good.
Luther J. Pollard: (14:26)
And you became—there was another outfit from Muskegon that was operating systems instead of office furniture called the Shaw Walker Company. they went to town with it. I don't know. I suspect they had the idea of systems before I did, but I didn't know anything about it. Anyway, I was with the Rockwell Wabash Company until business trouble, mining investments on the part of the Rockefeller got his attention and the business was going down. It was eventually sold. I forget the Baker— Baker Boarder Company. I think it was that. I don't know.
I got out of course. And I had to start a freelance for a while around town. I had a little advertising agency located at [inaudible], 119 Dearborn Street. That's right where the Boston Store used to be.
William Grisham: (16:16)
119 Dearborn.
Luther J. Pollard: (16:17)
Yeah. Then I moved up with Snyder. Gabe got out of his business. He lost his business too. And he was freelancing. And I went into an office at 180 North Denver with Snyder and a fellow by the name of Quinn. I think we run it from a, a woman, Dusenberry.
William Grisham: (16:43)
Dusenberry.
Luther J. Pollard: (16:44)
Dusenberry. An old, old family. I don't know the other name, but Dusenberry. She wrote five issues. Sold all kinds of books. Well, then I finally landed with B. Subert and Sons, a leaf tobacco manufacturer, because I'd had some experience in writing the catalogs for another deep tobacco house. I was there for two years, maybe three years. I get along about 19-8.
William Grisham: (17:27)
19-8.
Luther J. Pollard: (17:29)
And I had a vacation and I went to Montreal, Canada. I expected to leave the country. And while in Montreal, Canada, I had to do something my evenings. So I went to a moving picture concern. Prior to that, I had seen very few moving pictures at that time. In this section, all the theater going people, we'd never gone to a movie house.
William Grisham: (18:09)
Right.
Luther J. Pollard: (18:10)
They wouldn't go. Well, I won't see that. I'm not that. I said to myself, that must be some spot for an advertising man. And I consulted all the magazines to see if I could see any ad in it. I couldn't see where the advertising man that’s going to cut into our advertising. I couldn’t help it any. I didn't know what they could advertise. I saw one quarter page ad. I think it was Munchies Magazine placed by Carl Laemmle.
William Grisham: (18:58)
Yes. He was in Chicago wasn’t he?
Luther J. Pollard: (19:01)
Yeah. Chicago.
William Grisham: (19:03)
He came though from [inaudible].
Luther J. Pollard (19:11):
He was—oh [inaudible]. I'll tell you more about him. So I came back to Chicago, fortunately, in answer to an ad that I placed in the Chicago Tribune. I got a call from a sales representative of a small moving picture projector. You want some water?
William Grisham: (19:47)
No. No thank you.
Luther J. Pollard: (19:48)
What’s that for?
Speaker 3: (19:49)
Well, you were coughing.
Luther J. Pollard: (19:54)
And it was called the Iconograph. All the average sizing [inaudible] in Chicago was after that advertising to push the sale of that machine. [inaudible] Sears [inaudible] had cataloged it.
William Grisham: (20:19)
Iconograph, it’s called?
Luther J. Pollard: (20:20)
Yeah, they cataloged it. And this sales representative, his name was Rubel.
William Grisham: (20:26)
Rubel.
Luther J. Pollard: (20:26)
R U B E L. I placed it there and he got the Chicago Film Exchange to back him up. After that, I had come along and [inaudible] them and, finally, he selected me of all the fellas that went to him. I don't know why, but for some reason [inaudible]. So we set up an office to sell that machine projector.
William Grisham: (21:07)
It was a projector.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:08)
Yeah. And inaugurated the name Home Picture: Moving Pictures in Your Own Home. And that was in the latter part of 19-8.
William Grisham: (21:30)
Moving pictures in your home.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:32)
Yeah, yeah.
William Grisham: (21: 32)
Very good.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:33)
Oh Lord. I—that was my idea.
William Grisham: (21:37)
What about that March 28—
Luther J. Pollard: (21:39)
Wait a minute. I’ll tell you.
William Grisham: (21:40)
Okay, okay.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:44)
I'm building all the way up, you know, for you. We started to advertise that picture and I had fights with my advertising agency. I was so busy I couldn't handle it then. About whether to use moving pictures in your own home or commercialized. I said, no, we want to let it stay as it is. Well, we were smothered with business. That shows you how the picture business was at that time. People would send in order for you to advertise, no money down, but they would send in orders with money in them.
William Grisham: (22:33)
Now, where did your ads appear?
Luther J. Pollard: (22:34)
We knew—huh?
William Grisham: (22:35)
Where did your ads appear?
Luther J. Pollard: (22:39)
In the Blade and Ledger.
William Grisham: (22:41)
In the—
Luther J. Pollard: (22:41)
[inaudible] Firstly, those papers. Of course we advertised in Popular Mechanics.
William Grisham: (22:49)
Popular Mechanics?
Luther J. Pollard: (22:50)
Well, I can't think of all of them, but anyway, [inaudible] came in there. Well, it got along the spring of 19-9, a big blow up in the picture business. The Patents Company was organized and all of the non-members of that Moving Picture Patent Company were scared to death. They couldn't rent films and they couldn't use projectors at all, because that was the question that ruled them out.
William Grisham: (23:44)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard (23:47)
And this outfit, the Chicago Film Exchange, owned by the Lewis brothers.
William Grisham: (23:58)
Lewis brothers.
Luther J. Pollard: (23:59)
Yeah. Here, I don't want any water. I don't drink water.
Speaker 3: (24:04)
Don’t you?
Luther J. Pollard: (24:05)
Maybe he does.
Speaker 3: (34:06)
Will you have a glass of water?
William Grisham: (24:08)
No, I'll join him in one in a little while.
Luther J. Pollard: (24:10)
We're talking over this [inaudible]. She’s sick. [Inaudible] Oh, there was a big flare up around here.
William Grisham: (24:32)
The Motion Picture Patents Company.
Luther J. Pollard: (24:33)
The Motion Picture Patents Company. It was Vitagraph. Biograph in New York City.
William Grisham: (24:46)
Kalem?
Luther J. Pollard: (24:48)
They were members. Lubin in Philadelphia, another member.
William Grisham: (24:58)
Essanay? Excuse me.
Luther J. Pollard: (24:58)
Pathe Freres, Pathe Freres Brothers. Of Paris, Gaumont of Paris. They were all members of the Moving Picture Patents Company. Now there. Carl Laemmle who was having a hard time at that time. At that time, he was on the fence.
Well, our concern was a very wealthy concern. That is The Chicago Film Company. They took it upon themselves to fight that Patents Company. They did fight it and eventually won out. They—it was then. I, I may be a little ahead of my story. It was then that a newspaper article was published, helping out the, in favor of the Patents Company came out. A fellow by the name of Frederick Starr. I think he was an anthropologist or something from the University of Chicago. He wrote a nice article, but it didn't mention the Company, but favored him. Well, that was just prior to my article, The Moving Picture War. I, it was pretty good. Looked in the future of moving pictures. I wish you could get a copy of it. I have none.
William Grisham (26:53)
I'm going to try to get one. That was the Chicago—
Luther J. Pollard (26:57)
I’ll tell you.
William Grisham: (26:57)
Alright.
Luther J. Pollard: (26:58)
It was published March 28th, 1909 in one of the Hearst papers. I think the name of the paper was—
William Grisham: (27:11)
Herald Examiner?
Luther J. Pollard: (27:13)
No. It was the Examiner. You see, the Herald Examinerwas a Hearst paper, took up, brought over the Herald.
William Grisham: (27:24)
That was later wasn't it?
Luther J. Pollard: (27:26)
It was the Messenger or the—
William Grisham: (27:27)
Examiner
Luther J. Pollard: (27:29)
The Examiner.
William Grisham: (27:29)
It was the Examiner, right? You’re right. Yep.
Luther J. Pollard: (27:33)
That article was treated as an ad. I don't know how that happened. I was very busy. I was a writer those days [inaudible]. Anyway, there's some good stuff in it.
William Grisham (27:47)
I will get it.
Luther J. Pollard: (27:48)
You see—
William Grisham: (27:48)
I will get it. You
Luther J. Pollard (27:49)
You see, another fact that recall it? I—that’s when I—you know, moving picture houses were just little [inaudible] around about that time.
William Grisham (28:04)
Now I want to change this tape right now.
Luther J. Pollard: (28:06)
Alright.
Speaker 4: (28:10)
They will probably be my headlight type of practice. [inaudible] We could very soon see that record shatter, probably not today [inaudible]. [Inaudible]. Alright. [Inaudible]
Side 2:
William Grisham: (00:02)
The motion picture houses were very—
Luther J. Pollard: (00:05)
Oh, just storefront, store stuff. I never wanted to go into it myself.
William Grisham: (00:12)
They were also—there were sometimes fire traps, were they? They would catch fire.
Luther J. Pollard: (00:18)
Oh yes. Right. The they had no take-up on their projectors. So the city passed a law that—they had the reel galvanized [inaudible] boxes take care of the film. You know, in those days, one reel of film, a reel of a thousand feet would have two or three subjects on it.
William Grisham: (00:46)
Some of them were [inaudible].
Luther J. Pollard: (00:47)
And around fifty minutes.
William Grisham: (00:49)
Split reels, weren't they?
Luther J. Pollard: (00:52)
What?
William Grisham: (00:53)
Some of them were called split reels. They had—
Luther J. Pollard: (00:54)
No, I never spread reels, all right. Because I had three or four subjects.
William Grisham: (00:59)
Right.
Luther J. Pollard: (01:00)
Usually, a comedy and a couple of dramas that you take a picture like [inaudible]. That was on one reel, a thousand feet that [inaudible], pictures business is coming up. [Inaudible].
William Grisham: (01:27)
Well, you left off at the article, down in The Examiner in 1909, March 28.
Luther J. Pollard: (01:33)
Yeah. I didn't want to copyright it, but there were so many to you pull up those days enough. My real reason for copyrighting is to happen. They can ask me if they wanted to do anything. They did. And they did it. We have [inaudible]. I had reprints of it and I gave it to the Chicago Film Exchange and they mailed it all over to all of them. But, I haven't a copy of it. I should have.
William Grisham: (02:02)
What if I can get it. I'll get you. I'll try to find you a copy. I will try to find you a copy and get one to you.
Luther J. Pollard: (02:09)
I don't know. There are people that I told about it that looked it up. You know, they didn't believe it. You see, I'll tell you, I know all about that too.
William Grisham: (02:19)
Now, what did you predict?
Luther J. Pollard: (02:21)
You know, they used to—I couldn't see a man, you know, like you, doing this to a net, but my
association was [inaudible[. I never had any time for any social life or anything at that time. You find, if you get that article that I had some ideas. I used to do those things or the times I came along with good people, like H.P. Williams and Al Snyder. They were writers, thinkers. Well, now, where to stop.
William Grisham: (03:03)
You stopped at what you were—what you wrote in that article, what your predictions were.
Luther J. Pollard: (03:07)
Oh, I predicted palaces for moving pictures. You know, they didn't have them big, fine theaters. I said, well, I know that they said in time there’d be entire cities for producing pictures only. All right. Good away from Sydney. Followed it. See?
William Grisham: (03:30)
Carl Laemmle.
Luther J. Pollard: (03:31)
Yeah.
William Grisham: (03:31)
Right.
Luther J. Pollard: (03:32)
I've always said Carl Laemmle had an advertising outfit. And I've always said that those guys got that idea from that article. Of course, I don't know, but I said that—but that's there. And I said in the article, if it isn’t okay, forget all this stuff.
William Grisham: (03:50)
Well, now you were then doing—after the Motion Picture Patents Company put the Chicago Film
Exchange, when you were selling your chronographs, were they—was that what they were called? You were selling the projector and then the Motion Picture Patents Company put a stop to that, for a little while anyway.
Luther J. Pollard: (04:12)
Oh yeah. They, I don't know how long that lasted. I don't know. Sometime I think it's a clever 60
minutes. Something like that. Of course I got in another line.
William Grisham: (04:26)
What did you do then after that?
Luther J. Pollard: (04:28)
Well, I'll tell you. My experience, the selling those—the home projectors—proved to be that there was a market for a low price, regular projector.
William Grisham: (04:53)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (04:54)
So there was a bunch of lawyers came to me and I showed them. That's when I was selling the smaller projector, golly, I had money orders all the way to test. And they saw it and they organized a company to make him movie picture projector. It could be sold at a low price and gave the distribution of it, that the Chicago field big stage provided, they retained me. Well, they produced the projectors. All right. Things happened and the projectors were live and not used. And I set up a concern and bought the projectors, bought them, and sold them. See, that's how I got into the selling projectors.
William Grisham: (06:07)
Tell me, what did you call the projector then when you began selling them that way?
Luther J. Pollard: (06:14)
I call it [inaudible] PNW Sales something. I don't know. That’s what it was.
William Grisham: (06:16)
PNW Sales Company.
Luther J. Pollard: (06:19)
I don't know. I don’t know. I didn't call them. I don’t know.
William Grisham: (06:25)
Well, that doesn't matter. That doesn't matter.
Luther J. Pollard: (06:29)
They kept on going. I was in that business for two or three years. She may have dropped in at about 1910, ‘11. I sold a lot of those things. Advertising, you know, that's it. Oh, I had a fire at all my catalogs, and everything were burned up. All that, that article that I speak about all copies of that were loss in the fire, fire on old temple court building all the eighth floor.
William Grisham: (07:09)
On the eighth floor of the temple court.
Luther J. Pollard: (07:11)
Yeah, had a fire. The people don't know anything about that either. Well, I went from there. I bet you got an office at Como 443 Dearborn Street.
William Grisham: (07:34)
Is that C-O-M-O?
Luther J. Pollard: (07:36)
Huh?
William Grisham: (07:36)
C-O-M-O?
Luther J. Pollard: (07:38)
C-O-M-O. Como building. And I began to prey on— these Comedies with black prayers began to prey on my mind. Show, all that build up that I had. I always think about them.
William Grisham: (08:07)
Did you ever see any of those comedies from Lubin at all?
Luther J. Pollard: (08:10)
Yes, I've seen. I'm sure I saw everything. I had to. Lubin and Edison had them too.
William Grisham: (08:19)
Edison did too?
Luther J. Pollard: (08:20)
Yes.
William Grisham: (08:21)
Were there black players, sir, or were there—were they—
Luther J. Pollard: (08:23)
I’ll tell you about that. There were—Photography was bad. That's one of the complaints that they had about colored people in pictures that they didn't photograph. They’ve always got some idea. They keep [inaudible] some objection that they raised, putting forth anything that's colored.
William Grisham: (08:49)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (08:51)
That I overcame. But I had the Ebony fellow in the laboratory called me one time. He says, pilot, come on over here. I filed a question about these pictures being photography. I went over and I saw it and he told me, I don't know just what it was. He said—they told these people that hadn't in the laboratory, they'll bring them up, right. Their faces. So the result was that a whole lot of public—the moving picture came up. I had filed the question of photography. That was really just, we begin to release our pictures at that time. Oh, they were fine.
William Grisham: (09:46)
Tell me, when did you begin making them, Mr. Pollard? When did you begin making your films? And when did Ebony begin? When did Ebony—
Luther J. Pollard: (09:55)
Well, wait a minute.
William Grisham: (09:56)
We're not there yet. Okay.
Luther J. Pollard: (09:58)
The Ebony film Corporation was organized in 1916 in the spring. It was organized for the purpose of making, specializing, in comedies with all colored players. It was not a colored organization at all. Just the players that they put up to do the work. I wanted to see to that. ‘Cause I had had experience and I knew a few things, you know. It didn't bother me, but then I knew. We, in 1916 and 1917, were making some pictures and fall of 1917. We got the distribution contract from the Old General Film Company who were the biggest distributors at one time in the country.
William Grisham: (11:14)
They distributed for the Patents Company.
Luther J. Pollard: (11:16)
For the Patents Company. Oh yeah. We got all of them just when they were going down. We used to furnish those people, twenty-three prints of each picture. I insisted that their distributors didn't put any of the pictures in theaters that catered to a particular group.
William Grisham: (11:53)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (11:55)
I see. My reason was this, that the public would get an idea they were made for that group only. They were made for the entire public, not any particular group. The result was that the pictures played like Madison Street, Chicago.
William Grisham: (12:20)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (12:20)
And other places instead of—
William Grisham: (12:26)
They were distributed all over the country.
Luther J. Pollard: (12:28)
Now, wait a minute. Oh yes. Distributed it all over the country. Now, some of the managers— these officers hollered about it, because they said these pictures would be the same as features and this group wouldn’t make any difference. Don't do it. That's all. So, I went out and began a career here and there, in all theaters. Now, after that, they were known. Bingo. Then it was generally, and they were the same as features and their theaters were catered to other than white people. They began to get quite a reputation. I think our rating sold about third. That was a Lloyd. I can't think of their—Old Lloyd comedies and—
William Grisham: (13:40)
The Keystone?
Luther J. Pollard: (13:42)
Keystone stuff. You've been studying this. They were first. Ebony was coming along. Yeah.
William Grisham: (13:54)
Very good. Tell me how many do you remember about how many you made, Mr. Pollard?
Luther J. Pollard: (13:58)
Well, I don't know how many were me. I know there was about eight or nine that have been released. And David ought to know something about them. He had them.
William Grisham: (14:08)
Did he have them?
Luther J. Pollard: (14:09)
He had that. He had some, I know. I know he had a lot of photographs of the players.
William Grisham: (14:19)
Well, I have some here, but I thought that we’d look at them later after we really—Am I tiring you
because if I am, I could come back, you know, Mr. Pollard.
Luther J. Pollard: (14:28)
I like to see them. I want to see.
William Grisham: (14:30)
Of course.
Luther J. Pollard: (14:31)
You know, I had to get away. You know, that was wrote a [inaudible] because I cried, but you know, business associations and so forth, I wanted to make a success at the pictures.
William Grisham: (14:53)
Well, you did.
Luther J. Pollard: (14:53)
Well, oh, no, I did. Oh, yes. In all, come down to this, as I said, it wasn't nothing them today. They used to complain about black people. He couldn't see them on the screen. You could see them today.
William Grisham: (15:10)
Absolutely.
Luther J. Pollard: (15:11)
But I know that that time they wouldn't have accepted anything like detective stories or like to do that are features.
William Grisham: (15:19)
Let me show you these that I have. I don't know whether I have—
Luther J. Pollard: (15:25)
I've proved it quite a story. I didn't intend to do all that.
William Grisham: (15:28)
Oh, it's beautiful. And I think if I—
Luther J. Pollard: (15:33)
God, you are somebody. I always said, could somebody get ahold of that? That would handle it. Right? Because [inaudible]. Listen, you’re with the Tribune, eh? Freelance?
William Grisham: (15:46)
I'm a freelancer. Yes. And I am a field historian. Oh, here they are. Wondering if I had lost them.
Luther J. Pollard: (15:59)
Let me see.
William Grisham: (16:00)
That isn't—but now I don't know.
Luther J. Pollard: (16:03)
I know. I recognize them.
William Grisham: (16:04)
I don't know the titles to them at all. I just see the films themselves. Do you remember any of the titles at all?
Luther J. Pollard: (16:13)
I don't know. I know Sam Williams.
William Grisham: (16:17)
Oh, let me take this down. Sam Williams. Yeah. Now was he—
Luther J. Pollard: (16:25)
The number one over here with Sam Jacks.
William Grisham: (16:31)
Sam Zacks. Z-A?
Luther J. Pollard: (16:34)
Number one. Reading from left to right.
William Grisham: (16:37)
Hey, J-A-C-K-S.
Luther J. Pollard: (16:41)
She knows him.
William Grisham: (16: 43)
Sam Jacks.
Luther J. Pollard: (16:44)
Sam Williams.
William Grisham: (16:45)
Sam Williams. Where?
Luther J. Pollard: (16:47)
Any Edmond?
William Grisham: (16:48)
Excuse me. Billy.
Luther J. Pollard: (16:55)
Leadman.
William Grisham: (16:57)
L-E.—
Luther J. Pollard: (16:59)
D-M-A-N. Let's see, I don't know what picture this is.
William Grisham: (17:04)
Well, that’d have been Mercy, the Mummy—
Luther J. Pollard: (17:06)
Most two fellows are good.
William Grisham: (17:10)
Would that have been Mercy, The Mummy Mumbled?
Luther J. Pollard: (17:15)
I don't know. I don't know that. Maybe so.
William Grisham: (17:20)
Well, that’s just so— This'll be number one then. And let me show you this then. I don’t—
Luther J. Pollard: (17:25)
Let me—Give me all. I'd tell them to you.
William Grisham: (17:27)
I just want to— I just want to make sure that we— I have the right numbers on that. What would that have been?
Luther J. Pollard: (17:37)
Let's see.
William Grisham: (17:41)
Were any—was Sam Jacks from vaudeville, [inaudible] or anything?
Luther J. Pollard: (17:43)
I don't know what this is.
William Grisham: (17:47)
What's that was Sam Jacks from Vaudeville. Were they from Vaudeville? Did they have any experience at all? Prior?
Luther J. Pollard: (17:55)
Sam Jackson. He only died here recently. Last five or six years.
William Grisham: (18:00)
Was he in Vaudeville? Was he in Vaudeville at all?
Luther J. Pollard: (18:04)
No. No. He may have been before I knew him, but here he is over here. I could recognize him. I don't know what this picture is. I don't know. This is Sam Williams. The fellas on the bed. I don't know.
Luther J. Pollard: (18:28)
I don't know. [Inaudible] It’s Sam Jacks up here.
William Grisham: (18:37)
Well, we have that identified then. That's Sam Jacks then. He was one of the stars.
Luther J. Pollard: (18:42)
Oh, he was good.
William Grisham: (18:44)
Okay. That's two.
Luther J. Pollard: (18:47)
Here's much straight, man. And then those funny pictures, I don't know.
William Grisham: (18:53)
I bet that—
Luther J. Pollard: (18:54)
I was busy at the other end of it.
William Grisham: (18:57)
That’s Sam Jacks too. Isn’t that Sam Jacks?
Luther J. Pollard: (19:15)
I don't know. This is—Yvonne Junior, this woman.
William Grisham: (19:20)
E-V?
Luther J. Pollard: (19:21)
There’s some funny Y-O. The girl.
William Grisham: (19:25)
Y-O. And then E Junior, J-U-N-I-O-R.
Luther J. Pollard: (19:29)
Sam Jacks.
William Grisham: (19:30)
Sam Jacks and Yvonne.
Luther J. Pollard: (19:35)
Where'd you get these, from David?
William Grisham: (19:38)
I'll tell you what, David had some of those and I think his grand granddaughter—not granddaughter but his daughter. His daughter had some of those. His daughter. Yeah. And she didn't know who they were, you see. This is Yvonne Junior there. Right. And then is this—
Luther J. Pollard: (20:06)
And I see that.
Luther J. Pollard: (20:25)
I don't know what this is, so I don't know. I don't know. A lot of mixtures in there. I don't know who this funny is down on the bed.
William Grisham: (20:41)
We don't need to worry about that one. Let’s just put that aside then. And I put four then. This was done. Where would this have been? This is number four. Would that have been up in Wisconsin or what?
Luther J. Pollard: (20:58)
Oh, this is an outdoor studio at Oshkosh, Wisconsin.
William Grisham: (21:05)
And tell me the Four Wheel Drive people. Did you engage them to back you at all or no. The Four Wheel Drive company. Did they back your company? Did you?
Luther J. Pollard: (21:16)
Who did?
William Grisham: (21: 17)
Four Wheel Drive?
Luther J. Pollard: (21:19)
Oh, I was just stock company. We sold stock.
William Grisham: (21:24)
Yes, you had no backing. David said he thought it came from the Four Wheel Drive company.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:29)
No, there's a lot of those stockholders in the Four Wheel Drive company up in Wisconsin. Buttstock.
William Grisham: (21:37)
I see.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:38)
But they had nothing. I'd rather that wouldn't be mentioned. Anything about them.
William Grisham: (21:43)
Nothing you want to mention, okay.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:44)
No.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:45)
Okay. I won't do that then.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:48)
No, don't mention that.
William Grisham: (21:49)
I won’t.
Luther J. Pollard: (21: 51)
He had said no to a lot of those fella. A man was selling our stock and sold it for the Four Wheel Drive company for David's. It's got his, he's got—
William Grisham: (22:02)
That is up in Oshkosh, Wisconsin then.
Luther J. Pollard: (22:05)
Oshkosh studio.
William Grisham: (22:08)
Can you identify who were the people there? That's what we really should identify, but that's number five.
Luther J. Pollard: (22:17)
All right. I don't know if it's fun as on the end, but I know it's funny.
William Grisham: (22:24)
The one with the policemen?
Luther J. Pollard: (22:26)
The back row is Bill Starks.
William Grisham: (22:30)
Bill?
Luther J. Pollard: (22:33)
Bill Starks.
William Grisham: (22:35)
S-T-A-R-K-S?
Luther J. Pollard: (22:39)
Yeah. Rudolph. [inaudible]. He was the one that discovered. That guy, he went on, you know. Rudolph Tatum.
William Grisham: (22:58)
T-A-T-U-M.
Luther J. Pollard: (23:01)
Yeah. The next is Sam Jacks. The next is Sam Williams. Nick Scissors. Girl, I can't remember her name. She wasn't a regular.
William Grisham: (23:20)
Alright.
Luther J. Pollard: (23:22)
And the next is George Louis.
William Grisham: (23:35)
L-O-U-I-S or L-E-W…
Luther J. Pollard: (23:36)
L-E-W-I-S.
William Grisham: (23:37)
L-E-W-I-S.
Luther J. Pollard: (23:38)
Goodness. That picture, I know this fella’s name. I know this fella, but I can't think of his name.
William Grisham: (23:57)
Let me just leave that one blank. See at the very end there on the top row?
Luther J. Pollard: (24:02)
Very end at the top?
William Grisham: (24:03)
Let's just leave that blank.
Luther J. Pollard: (24:04)
Now. Second row from the top left. Charles David.
William Grisham: (24:12)
Is that Charles David? I didn't know that. David. Where is he, which one? He’s from the left? Charles David?
Luther J. Pollard: (24:23)
No, the next row. I don't recall that fella’s name either down here that big fella, the policeman.
William Grisham: (24:30)
All right. Forget the police then. Let's just say blank then. That's the policeman.
Luther J. Pollard: (24:37)
Two policemen. I can't recall.
William Grisham: (24:39)
Second one you can't recall.
Luther J. Pollard: (24:41)
Murphy. He's a great Vaudeville star. He died. Bert Murphy.
William Grisham: (24:47)
M-U-R-P-H-Y.
Luther J. Pollard: (24:57)
Oh, Philips. Ralph Phillips.
William Grisham: (25:03)
And what does he, is he the one that—
Luther J. Pollard: (25:05)
He’s the director.
William Grisham: (25:06)
Ralph Phillips. P-H-I-L-L-I-P-S.
Luther J. Pollard: (25:10)
And this, I remembered this woman, but I don't remember her name. This fat woman.
William Grisham: (25:15)
The fat woman.
Luther J. Pollard: (25:19)
And the one next to her. I don't remember.
William Grisham: (25:21)
Okay. And then who’s the—
Luther J. Pollard: (25:23)
[inaudible] Pull it out. The bottom is Diane Newland.
William Grisham: (25:28)
Don—
Luther J. Pollard: (25:29)
Don Newland. Newland, Don Newland. He is a prop man.
William Grisham: (25:36)
N-E-W-L-A-N-D.
Luther J. Pollard: (25:38)
Yeah, that’s it.
William Grisham: (25:39)
Prop man. What did David do? Was he a camera man? And was he in the lab too? Did he? What did Charles David do? Was he a camera man?
Luther J. Pollard: (25:48)
He was a camera man. Sure.
William Grisham: (25:49)
Right.
Luther J. Pollard: (25:50)
Phillips was the director.
William Grisham: (25:51)
And Phillips was the director.
Luther J. Pollard: (25:55)
Phillips was the man that worked with Cleveland when he started it.
William Grisham: (25:59)
When you went to the studios, which studio did you use, or did you have your own studio?
Luther J. Pollard: (26:06)
Well, no. There’s a studio at 2332 North California.
William Grisham: (26:12)
22? What was it? 2232 North California.
Luther J. Pollard: (26:20)
2332 North California. You want to get some [inaudible] of this story, Mr.—
William Grisham: (26:29)
Oh, I don't know. I hope.
Luther J. Pollard: (26:32)
I would. Okay. All right. That's George Lewis. This girl here—
William Grisham: (26:40)
Which one now? That girl?
Luther J. Pollard: (26:42)
This girl, she's the very nice type of girl.
William Grisham: (26:43)
On the top row?
Luther J. Pollard: (26:45)
Yes. That was funny, was up in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. [inaudible].
William Grisham: (26:58)
Did she do any Vaudeville later on at all? Did she go into Vaudeville later on? Vaudeville.
Luther J. Pollard: (27:08)
Oh, the girl? Yeah. No, no. I don't know what became of it.
William Grisham: (27:13)
She looks like she has a lot of presence.
Luther J. Pollard: (27:16)
I don’t know what became of her. Oh, tall, simmer down and change. Uh, All right. I think his name is Duryea on the end there, near that camera.
William Grisham: (27:39)
Near the camera, or was he at the camera?
Luther J. Pollard: (27:41)
No, no. That’s David has made over here. This is Duryea.
William Grisham: (27:45)
This man?
Luther J. Pollard: (27:46)
I think this fell way over here.
William Grisham: (27:48)
Is Duryea?
Luther J. Pollard: (27:50)
I think that’s right.
William Grisham: (27:53)
Okay. Then, I don't know.
Luther J. Pollard: (27:57)
Let me see.
William Grisham: (27:58)
Is that David and the prop man again?
Luther J. Pollard: (28:00)
Let’s see.
William Grisham: (28:07)
Don Newland?
Luther J. Pollard: (28:08)
Ralph Phillips, and David.
William Grisham: (28:14)
And David. And which one is Philips? Is he the one…
Luther J. Pollard: (28:16)
On the right.
William Grisham: (28:17)
He’s on the right.
Luther J. Pollard: (28:19)
Ralph Phillips.
William Grisham: (28:21)
Ralph Phillips. Okay.
Luther J. Pollard: (28:26)
You're fortunate to get all this stuff.
William Grisham (28:35)
That was in the studio then on California. Is this man Ralph Phillips here again? And the actors?
Luther J. Pollard: (28:49)
This is Ralph Phillips.
William Grisham: (28:51)
Ralph Phillips.
Luther J. Pollard: (28:52)
Yeah. I don't know. I don't know who this guy is with the ladder all over his face. I don't know who these people are.
William Grisham: (29:19)
Now, let me ask you something.
Luther J. Pollard: (29:22)
Well, Phillips, that's all I know. I don't know who’s the executor. You know, I wasn't always overriding them.
William Grisham: (00:04)
Anybody else [inaudible] bother you because they may just have been, you know, the wrong kind of people. They said that, let's see—I was talking to one of the reporters and they said that they may have bothered you, you know than helped they wanted to talk about your history and they didn't do it very well apparently.
Luther J. Pollard: (00:34)
No, they did it. They never did. They never talked to me about my history because I didn't give it to them.
William Grisham: (00:41)
Ah, that's it.
Luther J. Pollard: (00:41)
I'm preserving that for myself.
William Grisham: (00:43)
Good.
Luther J. Pollard: (00:44)
I've gotten a lot of it written up. My folks, they—Last man that came out here—
William Grisham (00:57)
Let me talk to you now so you just tell me—
Luther Pollard: (1:00)
Pull your chair right over here.
William Grisham: (1:03)
I am. That’s what I want to do. But the thing is I would like to—
Luther J. Pollard (01:07)
Well, you've got so much, I don't know.
William Grisham (01:12)
Your niece. You said that you have lived in Rogers Park, pretty much all of your life. Am I correct? Is this—
Luther J. Pollard (01:21)
Yeah. And I'm from the north side, Edgewater Rogers Park.
William Grisham: (1:25)
Edgewater, Rogers Park.
Luther J. Pollard: (1:26)
She don't know anything about me.
William Grisham (01:28)
She said she didn't. She said that I should have to talk to you directly.
Luther J. Pollard: (1:28)
Very little. Very little.
William Grisham: (1:32)
Right.
Luther J. Pollard (01:34)
You know, it so happens that my brother’s her father, Fritz Pollard.
William Grisham (01:40)
The f—the famous athlete. And do I have my facts straight?
Luther J. Pollard: (1:46)
Go ahead.
William Grisham: (1:47)
Did he go to Brown University?
Luther J. Pollard: (1:50)
He did.
William Grisham: (1:52)
And then he was with Robeson.
Luther J. Pollard: (1:55)
No. He wasn’t—
Speaker 3: (1:56)
Robeson?
William Grisham: (1:57)
Paul Robeson.
Luther J. Pollard: (1:59)
Listen. No, he wasn’t with Robeson. Robeson, he, Robeson came on there while he was at Brown. I think Robeson was not Colgate. Ra. R. R. R. R. I can’t think of that college.
Speaker 3: (2:22)
[inaudible]
Luther J. Pollard: (2:23)
What, will, I—Rutgers. Was it Rutgers?
Luther J. Pollard: (2:25)
What’s that?
William Grisham: (2:27)
Rutgers.
Speaker 3: (2:27)
No.
Luther J. Pollard: (2:28)
Rutgers. Yeah.
William Grisham: (2:29)
It was Rutgers.
Luther J. Pollard: (2:30)
Yeah.
William Grisham (02:31)
All right, but they were in the same football league together. Am I correct?
Luther J. Pollard (02:36)
Oh yeah, they played. You know, Rutgers played Brown and Brown played Rutgers.
William Grisham: (2:41)
Right.
Luther J. Pollard: (2:42)
But, eh, Fritz, I think it was, he was in Brown before Robeson got to Rutgers. But Robeson was in a Rutgers about a year afterwards.
William Grisham (02:51)
‘Bout a year afterwards. Right.
Luther J. Pollard (02:53)
And Robeson was chosen All-American after Fritz. Now, I want to tell you something. My brother was not camp's choice. The first man of color. He was not.
William Grisham: (3:16)
That's what they say though.
Luther J. Pollard: (3:17)
Now he was not.
William Grisham: (3:19)
Yeah.
Luther J Pollard: (3:23)
J.W. Lewis from Boston was.
William Grisham: (3:27)
J.W.
Luther J. Pollard: (3:28)
J.W. Lewis from Boston was. But the selection of those players didn't take in all the colleges. They were, it was, confined to the Ivy League.
William Grisham: (3:43)
Ivy League.
Luther J. Pollard: (3:44)
Yeah. The Ivy League consisted of Princeton, Harvard, and Yale. So after all, nothing was said about it. You see, it didn't have to become popular.
William Grisham: (4:00)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (4:01)
See, but then of course that wouldn't be news because they didn't, it wasn't generally. But then he was. This man Lewis was in school with Theodore Roosevelt and he was chosen. He was afterwards coach for Harvard. He played center on Harvard. He was afterwards coach.
William Grisham: (4:26)
His name was Lewis, right?
Luther J. Pollard (4:27)
And he was a great fellow. And this all was [inaudible], let's say the late eighties.
William Grisham: (4:36)
The late eighties. It’s remarkable.
Luther J. Pollard: (4:38)
[Laughs] But you know, they never said anything about white or colored [inaudible]. I've lived all through that.
William Grisham: (4:46)
Right?
Luther J. Pollard: (4:47)
I know. I never, never in all of my career, my business career, I was never mentioned about being a colored man.
William Grisham: (4:58)
Right.
Luther J. Pollard: (4:59)
You see, because my career was always white. I was executives in white organizations all the way through. And I came up here, all of my friends, my friends, all the way through, until I was 20, 21 years old were white kids. And I did the same thing that they did.
William Grisham: (5:27)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (5:28)
You see.
William Grisham (05:29)
Let me ask you this. Now you were—you lived in this area all your life. Pretty much.
Luther J. Pollard (05:37):
Yeah, sure. Ninety years. But I don't want you to—
William Grisham: (5:41)
No, no.
Luther J. Pollard: (5:42)
You and I are going to be out if you tell all that.
William Grisham (5:44):
No, no, no. I told—I said that you're going to see the article before it's published so that you can read it over. The other thing that I wanted to ask you then is—did you go—did Fritz and you go to the same schools and so on that type of thing, or what?
Luther J. Pollard: (6:00)
Did I go where?
William Grisham: (6:01)
To the—did Fritz and you go to the same schools then, and, or not?
Luther J. Pollard: (6:05)
Did who?
William Grisham: (6:06)
Your brother.
Luther J. Pollard: (6:07)
Oh yes.
William Grisham: (6:08)
You went to the same school.
Luther J. Pollard: (6:09)
Yeah.
William Grisham: (6:09)
And then did you, did you go east to school or did you stay here?
Luther J. Pollard (06:12)
I stayed here.
William Grisham: (6:13)
I see. And then you—
Luther J. Pollard: (6:16)
I went to Lakeview High School.
William Grisham: (6:17)
Lakeview High School.
Luther J. Pollard: (6:18)
Yeah.
William Grisham (6:19)
And then you became a reporter, did you not? Did you become a reporter or were you in advertising originally?
Luther J. Pollard (06:27)
I was in advertising when few people knew anything about it.
William Grisham: (6:31)
Tell me when, will you?
Luther J. Pollard: (6:32)
How about that? A fellow lived right over here. His name was Snyder. [inaudible] literary man. And he liked me pretty well as a kid. When he, when he was eight, when he was in the eighth grade, in Rogers Park schools, he had a little newspaper. That was the first paper in Rogers Park. I forget what they call it. I think they call it the Rogers Park Herald. Well, Al never went any farther than grammar school. And he went from there to the Metropolitan Business College and he studied shorthand.
William Grisham: (7:34)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (7:34)
And he got to be good at his work, he got in the old Chicago [inaudible] Post. He was a columnist. He saw possibilities in advertising for you. He used to talk to me. [inaudible] all about it. He’s a great friend of my father’s. You see, my father operated the barbershop here. Everybody knew, knew about him.
William Grisham (08:08)
Did he come from Mexico, Missouri? Or did I have that mixed up?
Luther J. Pollard (08:14)
The idea is—where did you get that?
William Grisham: (8:16)
You told me on the phone.
Luther J. Pollard: (8:18)
Did I?
William Grisham: (8:18)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (8:19)
No, he’s from Missouri. He was in Mexico, Missouri.
William Grisham: (8:23)
Mexico, Missouri.
Luther J. Pollard: (8:24)
He operated a barber shop in Mexico, Missouri, and the Ringo house. A big, fine palace.
William Grisham: (8:33)
It was a hotel, big hotel.
Luther J. Pollard: (8:35)
Big hotel.
William Grisham: (8:36)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (8:37)
And he came here early. He came here intending to go to Evanston, but didn't. You’re getting all of that are you?
William Grisham (08:49)
Yes. I just want to make sure that this is working. That's all. Can you just you just go on talking now.
Luther J. Pollard (8:56)
And he—
William Grisham: (9:03)
We're all right. We're fine. He came up—
Luther J. Pollard: (9:05)
He came. He came here. Go to Evanston because of the schools, and he got here. He didn't like Evanston. I don't need to tell you the reasons why. And we settled out in the Edgewater and eventually came here. Been here ever since. His family was all raised here.
William Grisham (9:36)
What was his first name?
Luther J. Pollard: (9:38)
John W. Pollard.
William Grisham: (9:39)
John W. Pollard.
Luther J. Pollard: (9:40)
Yes.
William Grisham: (9:41)
And your middle, your middle initial—
Luther J. Pollard: (9:43)
J.
William Grisham: (9:43)
Is—yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (9:44)
Yes.
William Grisham: (9:45)
After him?
Luther J. Pollard (9:46)
Yes, I suppose.
William Grisham: (9:48)
Right.
Luther J. Pollard: (9:49)
My name is supposed to be Louis. Let me see. Anyway, the name—my father was a religious man. He wanted his kids to have religious names and so he called. He didn't like the name I that they intended to give me. So he changed it to Luther.
William Grisham: (10:15)
Very good. Very good. Tell me this—
Luther J. Pollard: (10:22)
You ask me questions.
William Grisham (10:23)
Yes, I will. Now you mentioned Mr. Snyder. Al Snyder.
Luther J. Pollard: (10:27)
Yes.
William Grisham: (10:28)
Now you said that he was—he had gone to a stenographer school and he had learned, also had gone to business school. No. Then did you, did you form some sort of partnership with him in advertising or what?
Luther J. Pollard (10:43)
No.
William Grisham: (10:46)
Uh-huh.
Luther J. Pollard: (10:47)
He was always talking to me about advertising and he finally set up an office. I was about 18, 19 years old. Just out of high school. And I went to work for him and Charles H. Marsh and Company.
William Grisham: (11:10)
Charles H. Marsh
Luther J. Pollard: (11:12)
Marsh. And Company.
William Grisham: (11:13)
And Company.
Luther J. Pollard (11:15)
His partner was Henry P. Williams. One of the best known ad writers in this locality. And I remained there with the Snyder and Marsh until Snyder established a big agency. Called it Snyder Johnson Advertising Agency with offices in the Ellsworth Building.
William Grisham: (11:54)
In the Ellsworth Building?
Luther J. Pollard: (11:55)
Yeah. Marsh was a mighty fine fella. And I helped him in many ways and he let me do everything. So I learned copywriting.
William Grisham: (12:17)
Very good.
Luther J. Pollard: (12:19)
Very [inaudible], especially in writing of sales letters.
William Grisham: (12:26)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (12:28)
Now. Finally. Irving E. Rockwell, a Rogers Park, man, who was in the office furniture business and systems.
William Grisham: (12:45)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (12:46)
Had watched me. He was a great friend of my father's and he had a growing business, big business. I guess the largest of its kind in the United States. He never had an advertising man. So he liked to shout out of the sky. Put me in charge of the advertising of the Rockwell Wabash Company.
William Grisham: (13:16)
The Rockwell Wabash Company.
Luther J. Pollard: (13:16)
Rockwell Wabash Company. He had three or four names. Now Wabash came from the down in Indiana where they maintain a factory.
William Grisham (13:26)
Oh, they made furniture—furniture, did you say?
Luther J. Pollard: (13:29)
Office furniture. Now wait a minute. Then he was back at me and I got the idea of a system. I figured that it was easier going to interest a man in a system or a business in system than to sell them filing cabinets. You would talk system to him first and put the filing cabinets in afterwards.
William Grisham (14:14)
Can you tell me about, about what you're about what year this would be?
Luther J. Pollard (14:18)
Those years?
William Grisham: (14:19)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (14:20)
19-2.
William Grisham: (14:21)
1902?
Luther J. Pollard: (14:22)
Yeah.
William Grisham: (14:24)
Very good.
Luther J. Pollard: (14:26)
And you became—there was another outfit from Muskegon that was operating systems instead of office furniture called the Shaw Walker Company. they went to town with it. I don't know. I suspect they had the idea of systems before I did, but I didn't know anything about it. Anyway, I was with the Rockwell Wabash Company until business trouble, mining investments on the part of the Rockefeller got his attention and the business was going down. It was eventually sold. I forget the Baker— Baker Boarder Company. I think it was that. I don't know.
I got out of course. And I had to start a freelance for a while around town. I had a little advertising agency located at [inaudible], 119 Dearborn Street. That's right where the Boston Store used to be.
William Grisham: (16:16)
119 Dearborn.
Luther J. Pollard: (16:17)
Yeah. Then I moved up with Snyder. Gabe got out of his business. He lost his business too. And he was freelancing. And I went into an office at 180 North Denver with Snyder and a fellow by the name of Quinn. I think we run it from a, a woman, Dusenberry.
William Grisham: (16:43)
Dusenberry.
Luther J. Pollard: (16:44)
Dusenberry. An old, old family. I don't know the other name, but Dusenberry. She wrote five issues. Sold all kinds of books. Well, then I finally landed with B. Subert and Sons, a leaf tobacco manufacturer, because I'd had some experience in writing the catalogs for another deep tobacco house. I was there for two years, maybe three years. I get along about 19-8.
William Grisham: (17:27)
19-8.
Luther J. Pollard: (17:29)
And I had a vacation and I went to Montreal, Canada. I expected to leave the country. And while in Montreal, Canada, I had to do something my evenings. So I went to a moving picture concern. Prior to that, I had seen very few moving pictures at that time. In this section, all the theater going people, we'd never gone to a movie house.
William Grisham: (18:09)
Right.
Luther J. Pollard: (18:10)
They wouldn't go. Well, I won't see that. I'm not that. I said to myself, that must be some spot for an advertising man. And I consulted all the magazines to see if I could see any ad in it. I couldn't see where the advertising man that’s going to cut into our advertising. I couldn’t help it any. I didn't know what they could advertise. I saw one quarter page ad. I think it was Munchies Magazine placed by Carl Laemmle.
William Grisham: (18:58)
Yes. He was in Chicago wasn’t he?
Luther J. Pollard: (19:01)
Yeah. Chicago.
William Grisham: (19:03)
He came though from [inaudible].
Luther J. Pollard (19:11):
He was—oh [inaudible]. I'll tell you more about him. So I came back to Chicago, fortunately, in answer to an ad that I placed in the Chicago Tribune. I got a call from a sales representative of a small moving picture projector. You want some water?
William Grisham: (19:47)
No. No thank you.
Luther J. Pollard: (19:48)
What’s that for?
Speaker 3: (19:49)
Well, you were coughing.
Luther J. Pollard: (19:54)
And it was called the Iconograph. All the average sizing [inaudible] in Chicago was after that advertising to push the sale of that machine. [inaudible] Sears [inaudible] had cataloged it.
William Grisham: (20:19)
Iconograph, it’s called?
Luther J. Pollard: (20:20)
Yeah, they cataloged it. And this sales representative, his name was Rubel.
William Grisham: (20:26)
Rubel.
Luther J. Pollard: (20:26)
R U B E L. I placed it there and he got the Chicago Film Exchange to back him up. After that, I had come along and [inaudible] them and, finally, he selected me of all the fellas that went to him. I don't know why, but for some reason [inaudible]. So we set up an office to sell that machine projector.
William Grisham: (21:07)
It was a projector.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:08)
Yeah. And inaugurated the name Home Picture: Moving Pictures in Your Own Home. And that was in the latter part of 19-8.
William Grisham: (21:30)
Moving pictures in your home.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:32)
Yeah, yeah.
William Grisham: (21: 32)
Very good.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:33)
Oh Lord. I—that was my idea.
William Grisham: (21:37)
What about that March 28—
Luther J. Pollard: (21:39)
Wait a minute. I’ll tell you.
William Grisham: (21:40)
Okay, okay.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:44)
I'm building all the way up, you know, for you. We started to advertise that picture and I had fights with my advertising agency. I was so busy I couldn't handle it then. About whether to use moving pictures in your own home or commercialized. I said, no, we want to let it stay as it is. Well, we were smothered with business. That shows you how the picture business was at that time. People would send in order for you to advertise, no money down, but they would send in orders with money in them.
William Grisham: (22:33)
Now, where did your ads appear?
Luther J. Pollard: (22:34)
We knew—huh?
William Grisham: (22:35)
Where did your ads appear?
Luther J. Pollard: (22:39)
In the Blade and Ledger.
William Grisham: (22:41)
In the—
Luther J. Pollard: (22:41)
[inaudible] Firstly, those papers. Of course we advertised in Popular Mechanics.
William Grisham: (22:49)
Popular Mechanics?
Luther J. Pollard: (22:50)
Well, I can't think of all of them, but anyway, [inaudible] came in there. Well, it got along the spring of 19-9, a big blow up in the picture business. The Patents Company was organized and all of the non-members of that Moving Picture Patent Company were scared to death. They couldn't rent films and they couldn't use projectors at all, because that was the question that ruled them out.
William Grisham: (23:44)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard (23:47)
And this outfit, the Chicago Film Exchange, owned by the Lewis brothers.
William Grisham: (23:58)
Lewis brothers.
Luther J. Pollard: (23:59)
Yeah. Here, I don't want any water. I don't drink water.
Speaker 3: (24:04)
Don’t you?
Luther J. Pollard: (24:05)
Maybe he does.
Speaker 3: (34:06)
Will you have a glass of water?
William Grisham: (24:08)
No, I'll join him in one in a little while.
Luther J. Pollard: (24:10)
We're talking over this [inaudible]. She’s sick. [Inaudible] Oh, there was a big flare up around here.
William Grisham: (24:32)
The Motion Picture Patents Company.
Luther J. Pollard: (24:33)
The Motion Picture Patents Company. It was Vitagraph. Biograph in New York City.
William Grisham: (24:46)
Kalem?
Luther J. Pollard: (24:48)
They were members. Lubin in Philadelphia, another member.
William Grisham: (24:58)
Essanay? Excuse me.
Luther J. Pollard: (24:58)
Pathe Freres, Pathe Freres Brothers. Of Paris, Gaumont of Paris. They were all members of the Moving Picture Patents Company. Now there. Carl Laemmle who was having a hard time at that time. At that time, he was on the fence.
Well, our concern was a very wealthy concern. That is The Chicago Film Company. They took it upon themselves to fight that Patents Company. They did fight it and eventually won out. They—it was then. I, I may be a little ahead of my story. It was then that a newspaper article was published, helping out the, in favor of the Patents Company came out. A fellow by the name of Frederick Starr. I think he was an anthropologist or something from the University of Chicago. He wrote a nice article, but it didn't mention the Company, but favored him. Well, that was just prior to my article, The Moving Picture War. I, it was pretty good. Looked in the future of moving pictures. I wish you could get a copy of it. I have none.
William Grisham (26:53)
I'm going to try to get one. That was the Chicago—
Luther J. Pollard (26:57)
I’ll tell you.
William Grisham: (26:57)
Alright.
Luther J. Pollard: (26:58)
It was published March 28th, 1909 in one of the Hearst papers. I think the name of the paper was—
William Grisham: (27:11)
Herald Examiner?
Luther J. Pollard: (27:13)
No. It was the Examiner. You see, the Herald Examinerwas a Hearst paper, took up, brought over the Herald.
William Grisham: (27:24)
That was later wasn't it?
Luther J. Pollard: (27:26)
It was the Messenger or the—
William Grisham: (27:27)
Examiner
Luther J. Pollard: (27:29)
The Examiner.
William Grisham: (27:29)
It was the Examiner, right? You’re right. Yep.
Luther J. Pollard: (27:33)
That article was treated as an ad. I don't know how that happened. I was very busy. I was a writer those days [inaudible]. Anyway, there's some good stuff in it.
William Grisham (27:47)
I will get it.
Luther J. Pollard: (27:48)
You see—
William Grisham: (27:48)
I will get it. You
Luther J. Pollard (27:49)
You see, another fact that recall it? I—that’s when I—you know, moving picture houses were just little [inaudible] around about that time.
William Grisham (28:04)
Now I want to change this tape right now.
Luther J. Pollard: (28:06)
Alright.
Speaker 4: (28:10)
They will probably be my headlight type of practice. [inaudible] We could very soon see that record shatter, probably not today [inaudible]. [Inaudible]. Alright. [Inaudible]
Side 2:
William Grisham: (00:02)
The motion picture houses were very—
Luther J. Pollard: (00:05)
Oh, just storefront, store stuff. I never wanted to go into it myself.
William Grisham: (00:12)
They were also—there were sometimes fire traps, were they? They would catch fire.
Luther J. Pollard: (00:18)
Oh yes. Right. The they had no take-up on their projectors. So the city passed a law that—they had the reel galvanized [inaudible] boxes take care of the film. You know, in those days, one reel of film, a reel of a thousand feet would have two or three subjects on it.
William Grisham: (00:46)
Some of them were [inaudible].
Luther J. Pollard: (00:47)
And around fifty minutes.
William Grisham: (00:49)
Split reels, weren't they?
Luther J. Pollard: (00:52)
What?
William Grisham: (00:53)
Some of them were called split reels. They had—
Luther J. Pollard: (00:54)
No, I never spread reels, all right. Because I had three or four subjects.
William Grisham: (00:59)
Right.
Luther J. Pollard: (01:00)
Usually, a comedy and a couple of dramas that you take a picture like [inaudible]. That was on one reel, a thousand feet that [inaudible], pictures business is coming up. [Inaudible].
William Grisham: (01:27)
Well, you left off at the article, down in The Examiner in 1909, March 28.
Luther J. Pollard: (01:33)
Yeah. I didn't want to copyright it, but there were so many to you pull up those days enough. My real reason for copyrighting is to happen. They can ask me if they wanted to do anything. They did. And they did it. We have [inaudible]. I had reprints of it and I gave it to the Chicago Film Exchange and they mailed it all over to all of them. But, I haven't a copy of it. I should have.
William Grisham: (02:02)
What if I can get it. I'll get you. I'll try to find you a copy. I will try to find you a copy and get one to you.
Luther J. Pollard: (02:09)
I don't know. There are people that I told about it that looked it up. You know, they didn't believe it. You see, I'll tell you, I know all about that too.
William Grisham: (02:19)
Now, what did you predict?
Luther J. Pollard: (02:21)
You know, they used to—I couldn't see a man, you know, like you, doing this to a net, but my
association was [inaudible[. I never had any time for any social life or anything at that time. You find, if you get that article that I had some ideas. I used to do those things or the times I came along with good people, like H.P. Williams and Al Snyder. They were writers, thinkers. Well, now, where to stop.
William Grisham: (03:03)
You stopped at what you were—what you wrote in that article, what your predictions were.
Luther J. Pollard: (03:07)
Oh, I predicted palaces for moving pictures. You know, they didn't have them big, fine theaters. I said, well, I know that they said in time there’d be entire cities for producing pictures only. All right. Good away from Sydney. Followed it. See?
William Grisham: (03:30)
Carl Laemmle.
Luther J. Pollard: (03:31)
Yeah.
William Grisham: (03:31)
Right.
Luther J. Pollard: (03:32)
I've always said Carl Laemmle had an advertising outfit. And I've always said that those guys got that idea from that article. Of course, I don't know, but I said that—but that's there. And I said in the article, if it isn’t okay, forget all this stuff.
William Grisham: (03:50)
Well, now you were then doing—after the Motion Picture Patents Company put the Chicago Film
Exchange, when you were selling your chronographs, were they—was that what they were called? You were selling the projector and then the Motion Picture Patents Company put a stop to that, for a little while anyway.
Luther J. Pollard: (04:12)
Oh yeah. They, I don't know how long that lasted. I don't know. Sometime I think it's a clever 60
minutes. Something like that. Of course I got in another line.
William Grisham: (04:26)
What did you do then after that?
Luther J. Pollard: (04:28)
Well, I'll tell you. My experience, the selling those—the home projectors—proved to be that there was a market for a low price, regular projector.
William Grisham: (04:53)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (04:54)
So there was a bunch of lawyers came to me and I showed them. That's when I was selling the smaller projector, golly, I had money orders all the way to test. And they saw it and they organized a company to make him movie picture projector. It could be sold at a low price and gave the distribution of it, that the Chicago field big stage provided, they retained me. Well, they produced the projectors. All right. Things happened and the projectors were live and not used. And I set up a concern and bought the projectors, bought them, and sold them. See, that's how I got into the selling projectors.
William Grisham: (06:07)
Tell me, what did you call the projector then when you began selling them that way?
Luther J. Pollard: (06:14)
I call it [inaudible] PNW Sales something. I don't know. That’s what it was.
William Grisham: (06:16)
PNW Sales Company.
Luther J. Pollard: (06:19)
I don't know. I don’t know. I didn't call them. I don’t know.
William Grisham: (06:25)
Well, that doesn't matter. That doesn't matter.
Luther J. Pollard: (06:29)
They kept on going. I was in that business for two or three years. She may have dropped in at about 1910, ‘11. I sold a lot of those things. Advertising, you know, that's it. Oh, I had a fire at all my catalogs, and everything were burned up. All that, that article that I speak about all copies of that were loss in the fire, fire on old temple court building all the eighth floor.
William Grisham: (07:09)
On the eighth floor of the temple court.
Luther J. Pollard: (07:11)
Yeah, had a fire. The people don't know anything about that either. Well, I went from there. I bet you got an office at Como 443 Dearborn Street.
William Grisham: (07:34)
Is that C-O-M-O?
Luther J. Pollard: (07:36)
Huh?
William Grisham: (07:36)
C-O-M-O?
Luther J. Pollard: (07:38)
C-O-M-O. Como building. And I began to prey on— these Comedies with black prayers began to prey on my mind. Show, all that build up that I had. I always think about them.
William Grisham: (08:07)
Did you ever see any of those comedies from Lubin at all?
Luther J. Pollard: (08:10)
Yes, I've seen. I'm sure I saw everything. I had to. Lubin and Edison had them too.
William Grisham: (08:19)
Edison did too?
Luther J. Pollard: (08:20)
Yes.
William Grisham: (08:21)
Were there black players, sir, or were there—were they—
Luther J. Pollard: (08:23)
I’ll tell you about that. There were—Photography was bad. That's one of the complaints that they had about colored people in pictures that they didn't photograph. They’ve always got some idea. They keep [inaudible] some objection that they raised, putting forth anything that's colored.
William Grisham: (08:49)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (08:51)
That I overcame. But I had the Ebony fellow in the laboratory called me one time. He says, pilot, come on over here. I filed a question about these pictures being photography. I went over and I saw it and he told me, I don't know just what it was. He said—they told these people that hadn't in the laboratory, they'll bring them up, right. Their faces. So the result was that a whole lot of public—the moving picture came up. I had filed the question of photography. That was really just, we begin to release our pictures at that time. Oh, they were fine.
William Grisham: (09:46)
Tell me, when did you begin making them, Mr. Pollard? When did you begin making your films? And when did Ebony begin? When did Ebony—
Luther J. Pollard: (09:55)
Well, wait a minute.
William Grisham: (09:56)
We're not there yet. Okay.
Luther J. Pollard: (09:58)
The Ebony film Corporation was organized in 1916 in the spring. It was organized for the purpose of making, specializing, in comedies with all colored players. It was not a colored organization at all. Just the players that they put up to do the work. I wanted to see to that. ‘Cause I had had experience and I knew a few things, you know. It didn't bother me, but then I knew. We, in 1916 and 1917, were making some pictures and fall of 1917. We got the distribution contract from the Old General Film Company who were the biggest distributors at one time in the country.
William Grisham: (11:14)
They distributed for the Patents Company.
Luther J. Pollard: (11:16)
For the Patents Company. Oh yeah. We got all of them just when they were going down. We used to furnish those people, twenty-three prints of each picture. I insisted that their distributors didn't put any of the pictures in theaters that catered to a particular group.
William Grisham: (11:53)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (11:55)
I see. My reason was this, that the public would get an idea they were made for that group only. They were made for the entire public, not any particular group. The result was that the pictures played like Madison Street, Chicago.
William Grisham: (12:20)
Yes.
Luther J. Pollard: (12:20)
And other places instead of—
William Grisham: (12:26)
They were distributed all over the country.
Luther J. Pollard: (12:28)
Now, wait a minute. Oh yes. Distributed it all over the country. Now, some of the managers— these officers hollered about it, because they said these pictures would be the same as features and this group wouldn’t make any difference. Don't do it. That's all. So, I went out and began a career here and there, in all theaters. Now, after that, they were known. Bingo. Then it was generally, and they were the same as features and their theaters were catered to other than white people. They began to get quite a reputation. I think our rating sold about third. That was a Lloyd. I can't think of their—Old Lloyd comedies and—
William Grisham: (13:40)
The Keystone?
Luther J. Pollard: (13:42)
Keystone stuff. You've been studying this. They were first. Ebony was coming along. Yeah.
William Grisham: (13:54)
Very good. Tell me how many do you remember about how many you made, Mr. Pollard?
Luther J. Pollard: (13:58)
Well, I don't know how many were me. I know there was about eight or nine that have been released. And David ought to know something about them. He had them.
William Grisham: (14:08)
Did he have them?
Luther J. Pollard: (14:09)
He had that. He had some, I know. I know he had a lot of photographs of the players.
William Grisham: (14:19)
Well, I have some here, but I thought that we’d look at them later after we really—Am I tiring you
because if I am, I could come back, you know, Mr. Pollard.
Luther J. Pollard: (14:28)
I like to see them. I want to see.
William Grisham: (14:30)
Of course.
Luther J. Pollard: (14:31)
You know, I had to get away. You know, that was wrote a [inaudible] because I cried, but you know, business associations and so forth, I wanted to make a success at the pictures.
William Grisham: (14:53)
Well, you did.
Luther J. Pollard: (14:53)
Well, oh, no, I did. Oh, yes. In all, come down to this, as I said, it wasn't nothing them today. They used to complain about black people. He couldn't see them on the screen. You could see them today.
William Grisham: (15:10)
Absolutely.
Luther J. Pollard: (15:11)
But I know that that time they wouldn't have accepted anything like detective stories or like to do that are features.
William Grisham: (15:19)
Let me show you these that I have. I don't know whether I have—
Luther J. Pollard: (15:25)
I've proved it quite a story. I didn't intend to do all that.
William Grisham: (15:28)
Oh, it's beautiful. And I think if I—
Luther J. Pollard: (15:33)
God, you are somebody. I always said, could somebody get ahold of that? That would handle it. Right? Because [inaudible]. Listen, you’re with the Tribune, eh? Freelance?
William Grisham: (15:46)
I'm a freelancer. Yes. And I am a field historian. Oh, here they are. Wondering if I had lost them.
Luther J. Pollard: (15:59)
Let me see.
William Grisham: (16:00)
That isn't—but now I don't know.
Luther J. Pollard: (16:03)
I know. I recognize them.
William Grisham: (16:04)
I don't know the titles to them at all. I just see the films themselves. Do you remember any of the titles at all?
Luther J. Pollard: (16:13)
I don't know. I know Sam Williams.
William Grisham: (16:17)
Oh, let me take this down. Sam Williams. Yeah. Now was he—
Luther J. Pollard: (16:25)
The number one over here with Sam Jacks.
William Grisham: (16:31)
Sam Zacks. Z-A?
Luther J. Pollard: (16:34)
Number one. Reading from left to right.
William Grisham: (16:37)
Hey, J-A-C-K-S.
Luther J. Pollard: (16:41)
She knows him.
William Grisham: (16: 43)
Sam Jacks.
Luther J. Pollard: (16:44)
Sam Williams.
William Grisham: (16:45)
Sam Williams. Where?
Luther J. Pollard: (16:47)
Any Edmond?
William Grisham: (16:48)
Excuse me. Billy.
Luther J. Pollard: (16:55)
Leadman.
William Grisham: (16:57)
L-E.—
Luther J. Pollard: (16:59)
D-M-A-N. Let's see, I don't know what picture this is.
William Grisham: (17:04)
Well, that’d have been Mercy, the Mummy—
Luther J. Pollard: (17:06)
Most two fellows are good.
William Grisham: (17:10)
Would that have been Mercy, The Mummy Mumbled?
Luther J. Pollard: (17:15)
I don't know. I don't know that. Maybe so.
William Grisham: (17:20)
Well, that’s just so— This'll be number one then. And let me show you this then. I don’t—
Luther J. Pollard: (17:25)
Let me—Give me all. I'd tell them to you.
William Grisham: (17:27)
I just want to— I just want to make sure that we— I have the right numbers on that. What would that have been?
Luther J. Pollard: (17:37)
Let's see.
William Grisham: (17:41)
Were any—was Sam Jacks from vaudeville, [inaudible] or anything?
Luther J. Pollard: (17:43)
I don't know what this is.
William Grisham: (17:47)
What's that was Sam Jacks from Vaudeville. Were they from Vaudeville? Did they have any experience at all? Prior?
Luther J. Pollard: (17:55)
Sam Jackson. He only died here recently. Last five or six years.
William Grisham: (18:00)
Was he in Vaudeville? Was he in Vaudeville at all?
Luther J. Pollard: (18:04)
No. No. He may have been before I knew him, but here he is over here. I could recognize him. I don't know what this picture is. I don't know. This is Sam Williams. The fellas on the bed. I don't know.
Luther J. Pollard: (18:28)
I don't know. [Inaudible] It’s Sam Jacks up here.
William Grisham: (18:37)
Well, we have that identified then. That's Sam Jacks then. He was one of the stars.
Luther J. Pollard: (18:42)
Oh, he was good.
William Grisham: (18:44)
Okay. That's two.
Luther J. Pollard: (18:47)
Here's much straight, man. And then those funny pictures, I don't know.
William Grisham: (18:53)
I bet that—
Luther J. Pollard: (18:54)
I was busy at the other end of it.
William Grisham: (18:57)
That’s Sam Jacks too. Isn’t that Sam Jacks?
Luther J. Pollard: (19:15)
I don't know. This is—Yvonne Junior, this woman.
William Grisham: (19:20)
E-V?
Luther J. Pollard: (19:21)
There’s some funny Y-O. The girl.
William Grisham: (19:25)
Y-O. And then E Junior, J-U-N-I-O-R.
Luther J. Pollard: (19:29)
Sam Jacks.
William Grisham: (19:30)
Sam Jacks and Yvonne.
Luther J. Pollard: (19:35)
Where'd you get these, from David?
William Grisham: (19:38)
I'll tell you what, David had some of those and I think his grand granddaughter—not granddaughter but his daughter. His daughter had some of those. His daughter. Yeah. And she didn't know who they were, you see. This is Yvonne Junior there. Right. And then is this—
Luther J. Pollard: (20:06)
And I see that.
Luther J. Pollard: (20:25)
I don't know what this is, so I don't know. I don't know. A lot of mixtures in there. I don't know who this funny is down on the bed.
William Grisham: (20:41)
We don't need to worry about that one. Let’s just put that aside then. And I put four then. This was done. Where would this have been? This is number four. Would that have been up in Wisconsin or what?
Luther J. Pollard: (20:58)
Oh, this is an outdoor studio at Oshkosh, Wisconsin.
William Grisham: (21:05)
And tell me the Four Wheel Drive people. Did you engage them to back you at all or no. The Four Wheel Drive company. Did they back your company? Did you?
Luther J. Pollard: (21:16)
Who did?
William Grisham: (21: 17)
Four Wheel Drive?
Luther J. Pollard: (21:19)
Oh, I was just stock company. We sold stock.
William Grisham: (21:24)
Yes, you had no backing. David said he thought it came from the Four Wheel Drive company.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:29)
No, there's a lot of those stockholders in the Four Wheel Drive company up in Wisconsin. Buttstock.
William Grisham: (21:37)
I see.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:38)
But they had nothing. I'd rather that wouldn't be mentioned. Anything about them.
William Grisham: (21:43)
Nothing you want to mention, okay.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:44)
No.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:45)
Okay. I won't do that then.
Luther J. Pollard: (21:48)
No, don't mention that.
William Grisham: (21:49)
I won’t.
Luther J. Pollard: (21: 51)
He had said no to a lot of those fella. A man was selling our stock and sold it for the Four Wheel Drive company for David's. It's got his, he's got—
William Grisham: (22:02)
That is up in Oshkosh, Wisconsin then.
Luther J. Pollard: (22:05)
Oshkosh studio.
William Grisham: (22:08)
Can you identify who were the people there? That's what we really should identify, but that's number five.
Luther J. Pollard: (22:17)
All right. I don't know if it's fun as on the end, but I know it's funny.
William Grisham: (22:24)
The one with the policemen?
Luther J. Pollard: (22:26)
The back row is Bill Starks.
William Grisham: (22:30)
Bill?
Luther J. Pollard: (22:33)
Bill Starks.
William Grisham: (22:35)
S-T-A-R-K-S?
Luther J. Pollard: (22:39)
Yeah. Rudolph. [inaudible]. He was the one that discovered. That guy, he went on, you know. Rudolph Tatum.
William Grisham: (22:58)
T-A-T-U-M.
Luther J. Pollard: (23:01)
Yeah. The next is Sam Jacks. The next is Sam Williams. Nick Scissors. Girl, I can't remember her name. She wasn't a regular.
William Grisham: (23:20)
Alright.
Luther J. Pollard: (23:22)
And the next is George Louis.
William Grisham: (23:35)
L-O-U-I-S or L-E-W…
Luther J. Pollard: (23:36)
L-E-W-I-S.
William Grisham: (23:37)
L-E-W-I-S.
Luther J. Pollard: (23:38)
Goodness. That picture, I know this fella’s name. I know this fella, but I can't think of his name.
William Grisham: (23:57)
Let me just leave that one blank. See at the very end there on the top row?
Luther J. Pollard: (24:02)
Very end at the top?
William Grisham: (24:03)
Let's just leave that blank.
Luther J. Pollard: (24:04)
Now. Second row from the top left. Charles David.
William Grisham: (24:12)
Is that Charles David? I didn't know that. David. Where is he, which one? He’s from the left? Charles David?
Luther J. Pollard: (24:23)
No, the next row. I don't recall that fella’s name either down here that big fella, the policeman.
William Grisham: (24:30)
All right. Forget the police then. Let's just say blank then. That's the policeman.
Luther J. Pollard: (24:37)
Two policemen. I can't recall.
William Grisham: (24:39)
Second one you can't recall.
Luther J. Pollard: (24:41)
Murphy. He's a great Vaudeville star. He died. Bert Murphy.
William Grisham: (24:47)
M-U-R-P-H-Y.
Luther J. Pollard: (24:57)
Oh, Philips. Ralph Phillips.
William Grisham: (25:03)
And what does he, is he the one that—
Luther J. Pollard: (25:05)
He’s the director.
William Grisham: (25:06)
Ralph Phillips. P-H-I-L-L-I-P-S.
Luther J. Pollard: (25:10)
And this, I remembered this woman, but I don't remember her name. This fat woman.
William Grisham: (25:15)
The fat woman.
Luther J. Pollard: (25:19)
And the one next to her. I don't remember.
William Grisham: (25:21)
Okay. And then who’s the—
Luther J. Pollard: (25:23)
[inaudible] Pull it out. The bottom is Diane Newland.
William Grisham: (25:28)
Don—
Luther J. Pollard: (25:29)
Don Newland. Newland, Don Newland. He is a prop man.
William Grisham: (25:36)
N-E-W-L-A-N-D.
Luther J. Pollard: (25:38)
Yeah, that’s it.
William Grisham: (25:39)
Prop man. What did David do? Was he a camera man? And was he in the lab too? Did he? What did Charles David do? Was he a camera man?
Luther J. Pollard: (25:48)
He was a camera man. Sure.
William Grisham: (25:49)
Right.
Luther J. Pollard: (25:50)
Phillips was the director.
William Grisham: (25:51)
And Phillips was the director.
Luther J. Pollard: (25:55)
Phillips was the man that worked with Cleveland when he started it.
William Grisham: (25:59)
When you went to the studios, which studio did you use, or did you have your own studio?
Luther J. Pollard: (26:06)
Well, no. There’s a studio at 2332 North California.
William Grisham: (26:12)
22? What was it? 2232 North California.
Luther J. Pollard: (26:20)
2332 North California. You want to get some [inaudible] of this story, Mr.—
William Grisham: (26:29)
Oh, I don't know. I hope.
Luther J. Pollard: (26:32)
I would. Okay. All right. That's George Lewis. This girl here—
William Grisham: (26:40)
Which one now? That girl?
Luther J. Pollard: (26:42)
This girl, she's the very nice type of girl.
William Grisham: (26:43)
On the top row?
Luther J. Pollard: (26:45)
Yes. That was funny, was up in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. [inaudible].
William Grisham: (26:58)
Did she do any Vaudeville later on at all? Did she go into Vaudeville later on? Vaudeville.
Luther J. Pollard: (27:08)
Oh, the girl? Yeah. No, no. I don't know what became of it.
William Grisham: (27:13)
She looks like she has a lot of presence.
Luther J. Pollard: (27:16)
I don’t know what became of her. Oh, tall, simmer down and change. Uh, All right. I think his name is Duryea on the end there, near that camera.
William Grisham: (27:39)
Near the camera, or was he at the camera?
Luther J. Pollard: (27:41)
No, no. That’s David has made over here. This is Duryea.
William Grisham: (27:45)
This man?
Luther J. Pollard: (27:46)
I think this fell way over here.
William Grisham: (27:48)
Is Duryea?
Luther J. Pollard: (27:50)
I think that’s right.
William Grisham: (27:53)
Okay. Then, I don't know.
Luther J. Pollard: (27:57)
Let me see.
William Grisham: (27:58)
Is that David and the prop man again?
Luther J. Pollard: (28:00)
Let’s see.
William Grisham: (28:07)
Don Newland?
Luther J. Pollard: (28:08)
Ralph Phillips, and David.
William Grisham: (28:14)
And David. And which one is Philips? Is he the one…
Luther J. Pollard: (28:16)
On the right.
William Grisham: (28:17)
He’s on the right.
Luther J. Pollard: (28:19)
Ralph Phillips.
William Grisham: (28:21)
Ralph Phillips. Okay.
Luther J. Pollard: (28:26)
You're fortunate to get all this stuff.
William Grisham (28:35)
That was in the studio then on California. Is this man Ralph Phillips here again? And the actors?
Luther J. Pollard: (28:49)
This is Ralph Phillips.
William Grisham: (28:51)
Ralph Phillips.
Luther J. Pollard: (28:52)
Yeah. I don't know. I don't know who this guy is with the ladder all over his face. I don't know who these people are.
William Grisham: (29:19)
Now, let me ask you something.
Luther J. Pollard: (29:22)
Well, Phillips, that's all I know. I don't know who’s the executor. You know, I wasn't always overriding them.
Language Of Materials
English
Reel/Tape Number
1/1
Has Been Digitized?
Yes
Format/Extent
Cassette Tape ➜ C60
Genre
Form
Subject
Related Places
Participants And Performers
Grisham, William Franklin (is interviewer)
Pollard, Luther J. (is interviewee)
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