(16) 9-1-74, 3, Chas David
Date Of Production
September 1 1974
Abstract
This is an audio interview conducted by William F. Grisham in preparation for his documentary, The Very Last Laugh (1976). Here, Grisham interviews Ebony Film Corporation cinematographer and director, Charles David. In this interview, Charles David describes his work as a cinematographer and director, namely with Essanay Studios and Ebony Film Corporation. He primarily discusses his work as a camera operator and projectionist and his creation of original cameras.
Content notice: This interview contains racial slurs.
Content notice: This interview contains racial slurs.
Run Time
26m 14s
Log
Charles David: (00:01)
First of all, in the beginning, we did not have take-up magazines. [Inaudible]
William Grisham: (00:08)
You ran it into a basket, didn’t you?
Charles David: (00:09)
A box, yeah. A box with the hand— with the foot on the lever. [Inaudible] went and took a job on Division street one night to relieve [inaudible]—the operator was going out. He's grinding away and he had his foot on the box alright. [Inaudible] came from out this way. And the manager sitting down there and [inaudible]. He screamed.
William Grisham: (00:34)
Oh, that's amazing. [Inaudible] Sternberg was not [inaudible] Sternberg at all. His name was Stern and he came from Brooklyn. Do you remember?
Charles David: (00:42)
What was that?
William Grisham: (00:43)
Von Sternberg?
Charles David: (00:44)
Oh yeah.
William Grisham: (00:45)
Well, he was—started out as a projectionist. And he was saying the same thing. He said when he was able to put up a fire on the films he knew that he was a good projectionist. When he—
Charles David: (00:56)
You know I never had a fire.
William Grisham: (00:58)
Well, he said that they occurred all the time. Is that correct? Or no?
Charles David: (01:00)
[Inaudible] Yeah. They had fires all the time.
William Grisham: (01:02)
Yeah.
Charles David: (01:04)
I'm going to blow the front of the theater. Here's something that—this was one of the first sound projectors, sound on film, you know. A single system, they call it. And this is the Western Electric. It got all the trimmings for here.
William Grisham: (01:23)
Yeah.
Charles David: (01:23)
But we got a tack [inaudible] on here. Say, I had the same kind of a camera on the road for MGM.
William Grisham: (01:32)
It's the same camera. It’s just different. This is a spare.
Charles David: (01:37)
And you couldn’t get in touch with Andrew Schustek could you? Where’s Schustek? We had more, we in Chicago created more cameras than anybody had. One time—
William Grisham: (01:55)
Are we getting this or not? I hope. Go ahead. You created more cameras.
Charles David: (02:00)
We created more original cameras in Chicago than they did anywhere in the world. When they started going to the west coast, you know, to make pictures, they were looking for Pathé Professional cameras. You know those were the things with the two magazines on top. And that was the thing. And then Essanay—Bell and Howell came out with their camera, and it was so far superior. It's not the size of that, you know, wooden box with magazines in it. And this was Andrew Schustek. He was a Selig man. Selig built his own cameras. I mean, Schustek built the cameras and this is as good as anything modern today, I mean. This is the first dissolving shutter. They could put this at two, three, four feet.
William Grisham: (02:47)
Tell me more about Schustek Just because he came—he used the Lumiere patents.
Charles David: (02:51)
Oh, did he?
William Grisham: (02:50)
To come out with the original, with his first stuff. Yeah.
Charles David: (02:55)
Well, this is one of his better cameras, of course.
William Grisham: (02:59)
And he made stuff exclusively for Selig, if I remember correctly.
Charles David: (03:01)
Yeah. Yeah.
William Grisham: (03:03)
And the thing with Schustek. Schustek. Yeah.
Charles David: (03:05)
Andrew Schustek.
William Grisham: (03:06)
Yeah. I just wrote about it. I didn't mean to discuss him.
Charles David: (03:08)
He and I had quite a time together. You know, I bought all the Schustek cameras.
William Grisham: (03:13)
When was that? Oh, you did. When was this?
Charles David: (03:16)
No, not the Schustek cameras. I bought the printers.
William Grisham: (03:18)
Oh yeah.
Charles David: (03:19)
In those days the printer was something [inaudible]. And he built the printers and I bought ten or twelve of them when they went out of business.
William Grisham: (03:27)
They were on Peck Court? Where was Peck court? You remember Peck Court in Chicago? They had a shop. Schustek built the material.
Charles David: (03:34)
I don't remember. Bell and Howell was on Illinois street. What's that?
Speaker 3: (03:40)
It's your model number? Well, it’s an early one.
William Grisham: (03:44)
S C H U S T E K
Charles David: (03:50)
The Selig-Tribune had those cameras. There were a great camera. And they focus from here.
William Grisham: (04:00)
Yeah.
Charles David: (04:01)
And they—you set these buttons [inaudible] two, three, or four for dissolve.
William Grisham: (04:07)
You can do a four foot dissolve right in the camera. Did you roll it back?
Charles David: (04:11)
Yeah, you had to—
William Grisham: (04:11)
You would roll it [inaudible] dissolve.
Charles David: (04:13)
This would come through three or four foot and then this break would settle and stop you.
William Grisham: (04:18)
What about an Iris down? You could do your iris down?
Charles David: (04:20)
We used to have an iris [inaudible].
William Grisham: (04:22)
Right.
Charles David: (04:25)
But then you'd have to back up comp whatever you did.
William Grisham: (04:28)
Right.
Charles David: (04:28)
And sometimes you [inaudible] a fade out and you'd have maybe ninety foot and you'd have to take it out of the camera. You had to count exactly what you had and then take it out. And you take the first—when you began, you made the frame, you know. You outlined the frame and then you wind it back to that. And then you put it in the camera and do it all over again.
William Grisham: (04:53)
Amazing, yeah.
Charles David: (04:54)
We had trouble. Now, it’s all mechanical. It's all done with [inaudible].
William Grisham: (04:58)
Sure. Yeah. That’s fantastic. I bet that's the only one remaining, huh?
Charles David: (05:03)
I think it is.
William Grisham: (05:04)
Probably the only one. And these were the old—are these the old rewinds or are these new? No, this is old.
Charles David: (05:11)
That’s a Selig.
William Grisham: (05:12)
But this is an old—
Charles David: (05:13)
Yeah. That’s a Selig rewind. I guess these are old. That was with the [inaudible] camera.
Speaker 3: (05:25)
Isn’t that wonderful?
Charles David: (05:26)
But this was built by [inaudible], one of the first a good mechanics. But he was in the east. I think Fox spends—give him the money.
Speaker 4: (05:40)
Just a minute. Here’s a DeVry projector.
Charles David: (05:47)
And Herman DeVry was another pioneer.
William Grisham: (05:49)
And he was located?
Charles David : (05:52)
He was on Wells Street [inaudible].
William Grisham: (05:53)
Wells Street. Yeah. Oh, look at that.
Speaker 3: (06:00)
[Inaudible]
William Grisham: (06:02)
I know.
Charles David: (06:03)
Well, that was more recent model. He had made [inaudible] previous to that, to—
William Grisham: (06:07)
[Inaudible]
Charles David: (06:08)
The principle of the thing was the same.
Speaker 4: (06:11)
I don't know.
Charles David: (06:11)
The what?
Speaker 4: (06:12)
I don’t know how old it is.
Charles David: (06:16)
Oh that’s the [inaudible].
Unidentified Speaker: (06:17)
I put this [inaudible].
Speaker 3: (06:18)
What do you think, Dad? What do you think how old? [Inaudible]
Charles David: (06:21)
1915.
Speaker 3: (06:22)
1915. Did you talk about this camera? No?
Charles David: (06:30)
That’s when I first [inaudible].
[Crosstalk] Unidentified Speaker: (06:30)
[Inaudible]
Charles David: (06:32)
That’s the first time [inaudible]. These are all—
William Grisham: (06:35)
I'll tell you. I can put you in touch with somebody who is most interested in [inaudible] if you need a tax write offs or anything else. And—
Charles David: (06:45)
I don't.
William Grisham: (06:47)
Kemp Niver on west coast and I'll give you his address.
Charles David: (06:50)
No, we don't want to part with them.
William Grisham: (06:51)
I wouldn’t part with them. No, I'm with you. But I'm just saying he is the one that's done so much with museums.
[Crosstalk] Unidentified Speaker: (06:57)
[Inaudible]
[Crosstalk] Unidentified Speaker: (06:68)
[Inaudible] beautiful museum.
William Grisham: (07:01)
And Kemp has helped them, right.
Unidentified Speaker: (07:03)
Yeah.
William Grisham: (07:03)
[Inaudible]
Charles David: (07:04)
[Inaudible]. They gave me an application. $10 for admission, not $2500 to get in.
William Grisham: (07:12)
Oh, I bet it did.
Speaker 4: (07:15)
This is a record cutter.
Charles David: (07:21)
Did you [inaudible]?
Speaker 4: (07:22)
Yeah. [Inaudible]. I’ve cut records. Not too good because they’re really difficult to adjust. ‘Cause they cut out a shaving if you do. It’s pretty heavy to get out there.
Charles David: (07:36)
This was a type of magazine they had in the olden days. We never got over two-hundred foot rolls of negative.
William Grisham: (07:44)
You never did.
Charles David: (07:46)
In those days, we’d be lucky to get a two-hundred footer.
William Grisham: (07:50)
This has to be [inaudible], yeah.
[Crosstalk] Speaker 3: (07:53)
Did you talk at all about the sound camera? [Inaudible]
[Crosstalk] Unidentified Speaker: (07:54)
This was the way it was. [Inaudible]
William Grisham: (07:59)
That's why the—what I have seen is on cords like this, yeah.
Charles David: (08:09)
We’d get through—they'd get through shooting a scene and then we'd say, come along and say, “Hey, you forgot to put the cover on.” [Inaudible] and we’d hand them the cover. And they’d die. [Inaudible] grab the camera and run into the darkroom.
Speaker 3: (08:27)
[Inaudible] worked for Dad.
Charles David: (08:30)
And they’d forget to put the cover on too. These are the—
William Grisham: (08:43)
These are the pictures, aren’t they?
Charles David: (08:47)
[Inaudible]
William Grisham: (08:47)
Here’s Edward Arnold there, right. That is what I would be looking for.
Charles David: (08:52)
See the scenes?
William Grisham: (08:53)
That’s A studio. Where is this?
Charles David: (08:55)
No. This is the B studio.
William Grisham: (08:57)
Is that B?
Charles David: (08:58)
This was the Emerald Film Company on Welles Street. I think it was Welles or it was Cell. It was a car barn and they made a studio out of it.
William Grisham: (09:08)
Where was it?
Charles David: (09:09)
Emerald Film Company. I don't remember.
William Grisham: (09:11)
What was the time of that? Emerald?
Charles David: (09:13)
Oh, that was about 1916. He tried to imitate the [inaudible].
William Grisham: (09:28)
Oh there it is. There are the Ebony comedies. Yeah. Yeah. If I could get [inaudible] just for that chapter, for Mr. David's chapter in the book or not? Is it possible?
Speaker 3: (09:47)
Oh sure. [Inaudible] can you have it photocopied? Photo copy.
[Crosstalk] Unidentified Speaker: (09:49)
[Inaudible]
William Grisham: (09:51)
Just a photocopy and then you'll get all that back. But it will—that’s what I need, this permission.
Speaker 3: (09:57)
Okay.
William Grisham: (09:58)
Oh, that’s magnificent. Did you have any more like that?
Speaker 3: (10:01)
No.
William Grisham: (10:02)
I know. Cause I don't either. I know it. I know it.
Speaker 3: (10:04)
Nope. That's it.
William Grisham: (10:07)
Can you tell me about this, Mr. David? This picture is where studio—
Charles David: (10:14)
In this this one, this is not Essanay.
William Grisham: (10:17)
No, I didn't think so.
Charles David: (10:18)
This is—it might be Selig. They’re running on tracks. See the—let me see if I can find it.
William Grisham: (10:26)
Could be Selig?
Charles David: (10:27)
Could be Selig. Did you know Russ Stewart that died recently?
William Grisham: (10:33)
No.
Charles David: (10:36)
He was the head of [inaudible].
William Grisham: (10:38)
Cooper Hewitt.
Charles David: (10:40)
Those are Cooper Hewitt [inaudible]. Then we'd break up the thing with [inaudible].
William Grisham: (10:46)
Now what were these rails?
Charles David: (10:46)
They were sliding on the rails.
William Grisham: (10:50)
The Cooper Hewitts?
Charles David: (10:50)
Yeah. The [inaudible] at Ebony didn’t. They were permanent.
Speaker 3: (11:02)
[Inaudible] either go through that pile.
Unidentified Speaker: (11:09)
Did he use that?
Speaker 3: (11:12)
I think these are from Birth of a Nation, but I’m not positive.
William Grisham: (11:15)
Oh I’m sure they are. They’re supposed to have taken some of it in Evanston. I don’t know that that’s—
Speaker 2: (11:20)
Oh, here we go.
William Grisham: (11:20)
Here we go. This is Selig.
Charles David: (11:23)
That’s Selig, yeah.
William Grisham: (11:24)
That is Selig.
Charles David: (11:26)
Yeah.
Speaker 3: (11:27)
I pulled these out. Here's an old camera. These are cameras that grandma [inaudible].
Charles David: (11:30)
[Inaudible] in Africa.
William Grisham: (11:35)
Oh, I read about that. When that was a real—
Charles David: (11:37)
Yeah, that was a real dud.
William Grisham: (11:39)
Yeah. [Inaudible]. Yeah.
Unidentified Speaker: (11:44)
[Inaudible]
Charles David: (11:49)
I can add some pictures of the [inaudible].
Speaker 3: (11:51)
I don’t remember you identifying any of the [inaudible].
Charles David: (11:55)
Here's a camera with the bipack, remember?
William Grisham: (12:00)
Now this is Luperti isn’t it?
Charles David: (12:02)
No.
William Grisham: (12:03)
Who is that?
Charles David: (12:03)
No, that’s Alvin Whitecock. He was a west coast [inaudible].
William Grisham: (12:05)
West coast. Luperti does look something [inaudible].
Charles David: (12:12)
And here’s another one of those.
Speaker 3: (12:14)
These are all Ebony.
Charles David: (12:16)
This is where we had the combination. It was the funniest thing you ever saw.
William Grisham: (12:26)
Oh, this is fantastic. [Inaudible]
Charles David: (12:29)
Here’s the crew of Ebony. Then this is the guy I told you about. No legless wonder.
William Grisham: (12:38)
Oh, was he? He’s the writer?
Charles David: (12:41)
Yeah. He was one of the [inaudible]. We used to build these sets as we went along.
William Grisham: (12:50)
This is at Ebony.
Charles David: (12:52)
This is, this guy, Tischner, was the head of the trust company. And this was a relative of his, and they sent him out and put him on the payroll. At that time they closed it. So he was mad as hell at his company. This is an outdoor studio we built in [inaudible].
William Grisham: (13:14)
This is where Ebony got—See that?
Charles David: (13:17)
Here's the cast of Ebony.
William Grisham: (13:22)
That's great.
Charles David: (13:26)
Oh, this is the American cinematograph camera of my father-in-law. But that was another camera company. Sperry and Captain Banning I think his name was.
William Grisham: (13:41)
Oh wait a minute. This is your—oh, this is still Ebony though?
Charles David: (13:43)
No. Yeah. That's still Ebony. I made this picture for him, I guess.
William Grisham: (13:48)
Now where was this? At the studio over on California?
Charles David: (13:52)
Yeah, California. And see me at a bank of studio lights and a bank of a Cooper-Hewitts here. Then you'll see some arc lights somewhere. We had about four arcs. We could offset the light with those things. And we got some beautiful effects.
William Grisham: (14:12)
This looks great here. Remember any of them? What about the mummy? That one? That one—
Charles David: (14:20)
Mercy, the Mummy Mumbled?
William Grisham: (14:21)
Yeah. Mercy, the Mummy Mumbled. Oh, if we could only get a frame by frame on this [inaudible] before it goes.
Charles David: (14:30)
We built all those sets ourselves, you know?
William Grisham: (14:34)
Now, Mercy, The Mummy Mumbled was the—where they had the Orientals and the Blacks together, right.
Charles David: (14:40)
No, they were all Black.
William Grisham: (14:42)
They were all Blacks but they were playing Orientals here?
Speaker 3: (14:46)
Oh, this is a good one too. A Black Sherlock Holmes.
Charles David: (14:49)
Yeah. That's a good one.
William Grisham: (14:51)
Do you have it on film?
Speaker 3: (14:51)
Yeah, we should. See these are wanted to ask you how to—
William Grisham: (14:56)
Now, if you tell me what you want me to do, and I will be glad to do it. In other words, you want me to contact [inaudible] I will. Otherwise I won't.
Speaker 3: (15:05)
We’ve got to get these on a safe film.
Unidentified Speaker: (15:09)
There should be copies of [inaudible].
[Crosstalk] William Grisham: (15:12)
[Inaudible]
Charles David: (15:14)
Look at the bunch of pictures they’ve gathered. You know we moved out of the home in [inaudible].
William Grisham: (15:20)
Yes.
Charles David: (15:21)
And I didn't even [inaudible]. Ed was over and all this junk [inaudible].
Speaker 3: (15:25)
Here’s one. Here’s The Mummy—Mercy, The Mummy Mumbled.
Charles David: (15:28)
He had tons of stuff.
William Grisham: (15:29)
This looks like they’re probably in good shape.
Speaker 3: (15:31)
It’s in pretty good shape.
William Grisham: (15:32)
It is in pretty good shape. You’ve stored them well. This basement is great.
[Crosstalk] Unidentified Speaker: (15:35)
[Inaudible]
[Crosstalk] Speaker 3: (15:35)
[Inaudible]
[Crosstalk] William Grisham: (15:35)
[Inaudible] A basement is great for this though.
Speaker 3: (15:39)
And I think this is one.
Charles David: (15:41)
This one of them or is this something else?
Speaker 3: (15:43)
This is another one, Dad. This is your Reckless Rover, the Chinese Laundry.
Speaker 4: (15:47)
[Inaudible]
Charles David: (15:50)
We asked the chinks if we could use their [inaudible] and they said no.
Speaker 3: (15:59)
Dad also here and other things. He has the last bit of motion picture film [inaudible]. You know, we went through the city [inaudible]. He’s got the first pictures of [inaudible].
Charles David: (16:12)
[Inaudible] Universal. [Inaudible] last picture he ever, anybody ever made of him.
William Grisham: (16:16)
What did he have, [inaudible]?
Speaker 3: (16:19)
Yes.
William Grisham: (16:29)
This thing is really—now who did your motion? Would that be—?
Charles David: (16:37)
No, I don’t. [Inaudible] some commercial filmers at the Motion Picture Company.
William Grisham: (16:58)
Well, here's the Valentino.
Charles David: (17:01)
Yeah, that as it. That’s the thing we shot him. That's the last picture he ever took. This is one of my favorites. Got a guy jumping out of a ninth story window. And he lived. I had some other nice shots that I was very proud of. Didn’t I have one in here with—oh, this one. This one is beginning to fall apart. And they stole that on me after I made that.
William Grisham: (17:41)
I know they do that. This was—
Charles David: (17:42)
This was the head thing on The Crowd Roars. And I made this out of Sportsman's park. Didn’t know how to race. A car landed right by me. And this one came right down to my feet.
William Grisham: (17:57)
Did you—you did the one that I have in Indianapolis, the first one in 1911.
Charles David: (18:03)
Yeah. I was on that.
William Grisham: (18:06)
You know who’s distributing that? That’s the Black [inaudible] Film that’s distributing that.
Charles David: (18:12)
They still got it?
William Grisham: (18:13)
They still have it, yeah.
Charles David: (18:16)
We got some close calls. I was loading the magazine down along the rail, you know, outside the—
William Grisham: (18:26)
Rod La Rocque was another one. Did you know him there?
Charles David: (18:29)
Oh yeah. That’s the—oh, that's the death notice. I got a lot of [inaudible] around here. It would take time to go through it.
William Grisham: (18:39)
Oh, yes it would. Let's not do that though. You’ve got some beautiful shots. Are they labeled? Yeah, they are. Adventures of—see here's Kathleen now.
Charles David: (18:48)
Oh yeah.
William Grisham: (18:49)
Now, were the early adventures done here of Kathleen?
Charles David: (18:52)
Yeah. Nearly all of them.
William Grisham: (18:54)
Then they were done also out in the west.
Charles David: (18:57)
They went all over the country.
William Grisham: (18:58)
[Inaudible] She was a good actress.
Charles David: (19:02)
[Inaudible] even know the folks in the business. But he—we bought all the junk out of Selig and tons of it. And then—
William Grisham: (19:11)
You did?
Charles David: (19:13)
[inaudible] and I. I bought—
William Grisham: (19:14)
What happened to the Selig studios? Can you tell me [inaudible]?
Charles David: (19:16)
Oh, they went west.
William Grisham: (19:18)
No, I’m talking about the buildings here.
Charles David: (19:20)
Oh, they tore it down.
William Grisham: (19:20)
They just tore it down.
Charles David: (19:22)
And I bought tons of stuff from them.
William Grisham: (19:27)
Like what?
Charles David: (19:28)
I bought [inaudible].
William Grisham: (19:31)
Yeah.
Charles David: (19:32)
I got two-thousand flats. I told you I bought, individually, about ten printers. And all the props we could handle. I hired a hay rack from [inaudible] and we took it over to Ebony, you know, over to, you know, I have the photo plays. And I had that back yard loaded. And I walked out [inaudible].
Speaker 5: (20:03)
Here's the individual purchases you made from Selig.
Speaker 6: (20:07)
Can you imagine that showed up.
William Grisham: (20:09)
How amazing.
Speaker 5: (20:10)
See there’s another two-hundred [inaudible].
William Grisham: (20:14)
[Inaudible]
Speaker 4: (20:15)
We tried to go through one time and figure out what stills go with what pictures.
William Grisham: (20:21)
Yeah. I don't want to get them out of order now. That’s the thing. I got this out of
[Crosstalk] Speaker 5: (20:23)
Yeah. [Inaudible]
Speaker 5: (20:28)
Here’s a check to sue him for three thousand [inaudible].
William Grisham: (20:33)
And that was from?
Speaker 5: (20:36)
Ed bought it from him. It’s from Selig. Well, I don't know. It’s a personal dealing.
William Grisham: (20:40)
Yeah.
Speaker 5: (20:42)
It happened to be—
William Grisham: (20:43)
Amazing.
Speaker 5: (20:45)
I don't know how we have to say this.
William Grisham: (20:46)
So they were really sold—you would say they really were sold in about 1920, right, the studios here?
Speaker 5: (20:53)
That's the date on these, yeah.
Unidentified Speaker: (20:54)
That’s the date?
William Grisham: (20:55)
That would have been it then, yeah.
Charles David: (20:56)
That's when I started picking up—
William Grisham: (20:58)
Yeah. Oh, look at this. This is amazing. I don’t know what that is. They Is this Bronco Billy? Oh, this is Tom Mix! This is a Mix. They did these in Arizona, didn’t they? The Selig ranch in Arizona.
Charles David: (21:20)
Yeah, I think they did.
William Grisham: (21:21)
Right. They were also supposed to have been in New Orleans. Is that true?
Charles David: (21:25)
Where?
William Grisham: (12:26)
New Orleans?
Charles David: (12:27)
Well, they might've made one.
William Grisham: (21:28)
One but not—they were really mainly in Arizona, Los Angeles and the Chicago. It is an early—her name is—
Charles David: (21:38)
This was considered big in those days, a production set like that. That’s Essanay.
William Grisham: (21:47)
You know, I had shots. Beverly gave me something she wanted back. This is marvelous. Now who are these?
Charles David: (21:57)
There's some—I think Barrymore is in one of them.
William Grisham:
Well, this wasn't Essanay.
Charles David: (22:06)
Oh, maybe not.
William Grisham: (22:07)
No, this was not Essanay.
Charles David: (22:08)
Might have been MGM.
William Grisham: (22:09)
They had an outdoor sequence [inaudible].
Charles David: (22:13)
I remember now. I thought this was that side. They didn't make many spectaculars, you know.
William Grisham: (22:19)
No, but the one you're talking about has a configuration like that. I remember. You’re absolutely right.
[Crosstalk] Charles David: (22:23)
[Inaudible] It’s odd the way they built up.
William Grisham: (22:27)
Yeah.
Charles David: (22:28)
Spoor set [inaudible].
William Grisham: (22:30)
Spoor didn’t like to spend money.
Charles David: (22:32)
Oh, he hated it.
William Grisham: (22:33)
He hated to spend money.
Unidentified Speaker: (22:42)
So that was [inaudible].
Charles David: (22:43)
That’s Stan.
Charles David: (22:45)
That’s Stan. He wasn't in the army.
William Grisham: (22:47)
That’s really— it would be a nice shot though.
[Crosstalk] Speaker 3: (22:53)
That’s—yeah.
Charles David: (22:55)
We could probably get good pictures out of those.
William Grisham: (22:57)
Bob, if you don't mind. I'll have to come [inaudible].
Speaker 3: (23:14)
This is [inaudible].
William Grisham: (23:19)
Because they didn’t [inaudible].
Speaker 3: (23:24)
[Inaudible]
Speaker 4: (23:29)
Oh, yes.
William Grisham: (23:30)
’11? The 1911 one?
Speaker 3: (23:52)
I don’t know if [inaudible]
Speaker 4: (23:33)
All the years. All the years.
Speaker 3: (23:34)
There’s a whole pile of those.
William Grisham: (23:35)
Do you have—
William Grisham: (23:37)
See, I’m doing a film now that uses that material. Isn’t that interesting?
Charles David: (23:40)
What?
William Grisham: (23:41)
The 1911 ending.
Speaker 4: (23:44)
Well.
William Grisham: (23:47)
I have stills of the room.
Speaker 4: (23:49)
Oh, here’s one of the—
Speaker 4: (23:55)
Well, they're here. It's just a matter of timing.
William Grisham: (23:59)
What is this? I just was curious.
Speaker 4: (24:00)
I don’t know. Let’s look at it. [Inaudible]
William Grisham: (24:07)
They’re making a film in Cary, Illinois obviously.
Speaker 4: (24:09)
Yeah. See [inaudible].
William Grisham: (24:11)
It’s beautiful. That looks almost—Eisenstein. The kind of thing he would do.
Speaker 4: (24:19)
There’s just so many.
William Grisham: (24:20)
Well let’s— have them in some sort of an order, and I don't want to miss that up.
Speaker 4: (24:25)
Not really because here are some. We’ll have to—
William Grisham: (24:36)
[Inaudible] that’s twenty [inaudible] later.
Speaker 4: (24:40)
Oh, I saw 1911 on here.
Speaker 3: (24:42)
[Inaudible]
Speaker 4: (24:45)
Yes. Oh yes. There's lots of them. But they get messed up as you look, I mean.
Charles David: (24:58)
I’m also curious.
Speaker 3: (25:00)
Yeah. We—
William Grisham: (25:04)
[Inaudible] damages.
Charles David: (25:06)
That’s how—in the olden days where they, you know, they had to be careful. [Inaudible] had to be careful.
Unidentified Speaker: (25:13)
Bell and Howell gave that to you to try out.
Charles David: (25:16)
Yeah, he gave it to me to try it out.
William Grisham: (25:17)
Bell was mainly a projectionist. Howell was the inventor, correct?
Charles David: (25:21)
Howell was the inventor.
William Grisham: (25:22)
Right. And he had been hired, they had both been hired by Spoor.
Charles David: (25:25)
Yeah.
William Grisham: (25:26)
Earlier.
Charles David: (25:27)
Charlie Ziebarth was one of his best mechanics.
William Grisham: (25:33)
Ziebarth worked—yeah.
Charles David: (25:34)
Burt Howell. Let me see. What was Howell’s first name?
William Grisham: (25:38)
Burt Howell.
Charles David: (25:39)
Klein Howell, I think his name was.
William Grisham: (25:41)
Okay.
Charles David: (25:42)
He built a camera for Independence. And when we take two grinds of a two-foot, and he made one grind of two shots, two frames in it. And I got that when I bought the Lumley Film Company stuff. It was the damnedest thing ever saw. And he built it trying to beat the Patents company.
William Grisham: (26:09)
Well, why don't we close down today? It'd be—
Charles David: (26:11)
Yeah, I think we’d better.
William Grisham: (26:13)
Yeah, let’s [inaudible].
First of all, in the beginning, we did not have take-up magazines. [Inaudible]
William Grisham: (00:08)
You ran it into a basket, didn’t you?
Charles David: (00:09)
A box, yeah. A box with the hand— with the foot on the lever. [Inaudible] went and took a job on Division street one night to relieve [inaudible]—the operator was going out. He's grinding away and he had his foot on the box alright. [Inaudible] came from out this way. And the manager sitting down there and [inaudible]. He screamed.
William Grisham: (00:34)
Oh, that's amazing. [Inaudible] Sternberg was not [inaudible] Sternberg at all. His name was Stern and he came from Brooklyn. Do you remember?
Charles David: (00:42)
What was that?
William Grisham: (00:43)
Von Sternberg?
Charles David: (00:44)
Oh yeah.
William Grisham: (00:45)
Well, he was—started out as a projectionist. And he was saying the same thing. He said when he was able to put up a fire on the films he knew that he was a good projectionist. When he—
Charles David: (00:56)
You know I never had a fire.
William Grisham: (00:58)
Well, he said that they occurred all the time. Is that correct? Or no?
Charles David: (01:00)
[Inaudible] Yeah. They had fires all the time.
William Grisham: (01:02)
Yeah.
Charles David: (01:04)
I'm going to blow the front of the theater. Here's something that—this was one of the first sound projectors, sound on film, you know. A single system, they call it. And this is the Western Electric. It got all the trimmings for here.
William Grisham: (01:23)
Yeah.
Charles David: (01:23)
But we got a tack [inaudible] on here. Say, I had the same kind of a camera on the road for MGM.
William Grisham: (01:32)
It's the same camera. It’s just different. This is a spare.
Charles David: (01:37)
And you couldn’t get in touch with Andrew Schustek could you? Where’s Schustek? We had more, we in Chicago created more cameras than anybody had. One time—
William Grisham: (01:55)
Are we getting this or not? I hope. Go ahead. You created more cameras.
Charles David: (02:00)
We created more original cameras in Chicago than they did anywhere in the world. When they started going to the west coast, you know, to make pictures, they were looking for Pathé Professional cameras. You know those were the things with the two magazines on top. And that was the thing. And then Essanay—Bell and Howell came out with their camera, and it was so far superior. It's not the size of that, you know, wooden box with magazines in it. And this was Andrew Schustek. He was a Selig man. Selig built his own cameras. I mean, Schustek built the cameras and this is as good as anything modern today, I mean. This is the first dissolving shutter. They could put this at two, three, four feet.
William Grisham: (02:47)
Tell me more about Schustek Just because he came—he used the Lumiere patents.
Charles David: (02:51)
Oh, did he?
William Grisham: (02:50)
To come out with the original, with his first stuff. Yeah.
Charles David: (02:55)
Well, this is one of his better cameras, of course.
William Grisham: (02:59)
And he made stuff exclusively for Selig, if I remember correctly.
Charles David: (03:01)
Yeah. Yeah.
William Grisham: (03:03)
And the thing with Schustek. Schustek. Yeah.
Charles David: (03:05)
Andrew Schustek.
William Grisham: (03:06)
Yeah. I just wrote about it. I didn't mean to discuss him.
Charles David: (03:08)
He and I had quite a time together. You know, I bought all the Schustek cameras.
William Grisham: (03:13)
When was that? Oh, you did. When was this?
Charles David: (03:16)
No, not the Schustek cameras. I bought the printers.
William Grisham: (03:18)
Oh yeah.
Charles David: (03:19)
In those days the printer was something [inaudible]. And he built the printers and I bought ten or twelve of them when they went out of business.
William Grisham: (03:27)
They were on Peck Court? Where was Peck court? You remember Peck Court in Chicago? They had a shop. Schustek built the material.
Charles David: (03:34)
I don't remember. Bell and Howell was on Illinois street. What's that?
Speaker 3: (03:40)
It's your model number? Well, it’s an early one.
William Grisham: (03:44)
S C H U S T E K
Charles David: (03:50)
The Selig-Tribune had those cameras. There were a great camera. And they focus from here.
William Grisham: (04:00)
Yeah.
Charles David: (04:01)
And they—you set these buttons [inaudible] two, three, or four for dissolve.
William Grisham: (04:07)
You can do a four foot dissolve right in the camera. Did you roll it back?
Charles David: (04:11)
Yeah, you had to—
William Grisham: (04:11)
You would roll it [inaudible] dissolve.
Charles David: (04:13)
This would come through three or four foot and then this break would settle and stop you.
William Grisham: (04:18)
What about an Iris down? You could do your iris down?
Charles David: (04:20)
We used to have an iris [inaudible].
William Grisham: (04:22)
Right.
Charles David: (04:25)
But then you'd have to back up comp whatever you did.
William Grisham: (04:28)
Right.
Charles David: (04:28)
And sometimes you [inaudible] a fade out and you'd have maybe ninety foot and you'd have to take it out of the camera. You had to count exactly what you had and then take it out. And you take the first—when you began, you made the frame, you know. You outlined the frame and then you wind it back to that. And then you put it in the camera and do it all over again.
William Grisham: (04:53)
Amazing, yeah.
Charles David: (04:54)
We had trouble. Now, it’s all mechanical. It's all done with [inaudible].
William Grisham: (04:58)
Sure. Yeah. That’s fantastic. I bet that's the only one remaining, huh?
Charles David: (05:03)
I think it is.
William Grisham: (05:04)
Probably the only one. And these were the old—are these the old rewinds or are these new? No, this is old.
Charles David: (05:11)
That’s a Selig.
William Grisham: (05:12)
But this is an old—
Charles David: (05:13)
Yeah. That’s a Selig rewind. I guess these are old. That was with the [inaudible] camera.
Speaker 3: (05:25)
Isn’t that wonderful?
Charles David: (05:26)
But this was built by [inaudible], one of the first a good mechanics. But he was in the east. I think Fox spends—give him the money.
Speaker 4: (05:40)
Just a minute. Here’s a DeVry projector.
Charles David: (05:47)
And Herman DeVry was another pioneer.
William Grisham: (05:49)
And he was located?
Charles David : (05:52)
He was on Wells Street [inaudible].
William Grisham: (05:53)
Wells Street. Yeah. Oh, look at that.
Speaker 3: (06:00)
[Inaudible]
William Grisham: (06:02)
I know.
Charles David: (06:03)
Well, that was more recent model. He had made [inaudible] previous to that, to—
William Grisham: (06:07)
[Inaudible]
Charles David: (06:08)
The principle of the thing was the same.
Speaker 4: (06:11)
I don't know.
Charles David: (06:11)
The what?
Speaker 4: (06:12)
I don’t know how old it is.
Charles David: (06:16)
Oh that’s the [inaudible].
Unidentified Speaker: (06:17)
I put this [inaudible].
Speaker 3: (06:18)
What do you think, Dad? What do you think how old? [Inaudible]
Charles David: (06:21)
1915.
Speaker 3: (06:22)
1915. Did you talk about this camera? No?
Charles David: (06:30)
That’s when I first [inaudible].
[Crosstalk] Unidentified Speaker: (06:30)
[Inaudible]
Charles David: (06:32)
That’s the first time [inaudible]. These are all—
William Grisham: (06:35)
I'll tell you. I can put you in touch with somebody who is most interested in [inaudible] if you need a tax write offs or anything else. And—
Charles David: (06:45)
I don't.
William Grisham: (06:47)
Kemp Niver on west coast and I'll give you his address.
Charles David: (06:50)
No, we don't want to part with them.
William Grisham: (06:51)
I wouldn’t part with them. No, I'm with you. But I'm just saying he is the one that's done so much with museums.
[Crosstalk] Unidentified Speaker: (06:57)
[Inaudible]
[Crosstalk] Unidentified Speaker: (06:68)
[Inaudible] beautiful museum.
William Grisham: (07:01)
And Kemp has helped them, right.
Unidentified Speaker: (07:03)
Yeah.
William Grisham: (07:03)
[Inaudible]
Charles David: (07:04)
[Inaudible]. They gave me an application. $10 for admission, not $2500 to get in.
William Grisham: (07:12)
Oh, I bet it did.
Speaker 4: (07:15)
This is a record cutter.
Charles David: (07:21)
Did you [inaudible]?
Speaker 4: (07:22)
Yeah. [Inaudible]. I’ve cut records. Not too good because they’re really difficult to adjust. ‘Cause they cut out a shaving if you do. It’s pretty heavy to get out there.
Charles David: (07:36)
This was a type of magazine they had in the olden days. We never got over two-hundred foot rolls of negative.
William Grisham: (07:44)
You never did.
Charles David: (07:46)
In those days, we’d be lucky to get a two-hundred footer.
William Grisham: (07:50)
This has to be [inaudible], yeah.
[Crosstalk] Speaker 3: (07:53)
Did you talk at all about the sound camera? [Inaudible]
[Crosstalk] Unidentified Speaker: (07:54)
This was the way it was. [Inaudible]
William Grisham: (07:59)
That's why the—what I have seen is on cords like this, yeah.
Charles David: (08:09)
We’d get through—they'd get through shooting a scene and then we'd say, come along and say, “Hey, you forgot to put the cover on.” [Inaudible] and we’d hand them the cover. And they’d die. [Inaudible] grab the camera and run into the darkroom.
Speaker 3: (08:27)
[Inaudible] worked for Dad.
Charles David: (08:30)
And they’d forget to put the cover on too. These are the—
William Grisham: (08:43)
These are the pictures, aren’t they?
Charles David: (08:47)
[Inaudible]
William Grisham: (08:47)
Here’s Edward Arnold there, right. That is what I would be looking for.
Charles David: (08:52)
See the scenes?
William Grisham: (08:53)
That’s A studio. Where is this?
Charles David: (08:55)
No. This is the B studio.
William Grisham: (08:57)
Is that B?
Charles David: (08:58)
This was the Emerald Film Company on Welles Street. I think it was Welles or it was Cell. It was a car barn and they made a studio out of it.
William Grisham: (09:08)
Where was it?
Charles David: (09:09)
Emerald Film Company. I don't remember.
William Grisham: (09:11)
What was the time of that? Emerald?
Charles David: (09:13)
Oh, that was about 1916. He tried to imitate the [inaudible].
William Grisham: (09:28)
Oh there it is. There are the Ebony comedies. Yeah. Yeah. If I could get [inaudible] just for that chapter, for Mr. David's chapter in the book or not? Is it possible?
Speaker 3: (09:47)
Oh sure. [Inaudible] can you have it photocopied? Photo copy.
[Crosstalk] Unidentified Speaker: (09:49)
[Inaudible]
William Grisham: (09:51)
Just a photocopy and then you'll get all that back. But it will—that’s what I need, this permission.
Speaker 3: (09:57)
Okay.
William Grisham: (09:58)
Oh, that’s magnificent. Did you have any more like that?
Speaker 3: (10:01)
No.
William Grisham: (10:02)
I know. Cause I don't either. I know it. I know it.
Speaker 3: (10:04)
Nope. That's it.
William Grisham: (10:07)
Can you tell me about this, Mr. David? This picture is where studio—
Charles David: (10:14)
In this this one, this is not Essanay.
William Grisham: (10:17)
No, I didn't think so.
Charles David: (10:18)
This is—it might be Selig. They’re running on tracks. See the—let me see if I can find it.
William Grisham: (10:26)
Could be Selig?
Charles David: (10:27)
Could be Selig. Did you know Russ Stewart that died recently?
William Grisham: (10:33)
No.
Charles David: (10:36)
He was the head of [inaudible].
William Grisham: (10:38)
Cooper Hewitt.
Charles David: (10:40)
Those are Cooper Hewitt [inaudible]. Then we'd break up the thing with [inaudible].
William Grisham: (10:46)
Now what were these rails?
Charles David: (10:46)
They were sliding on the rails.
William Grisham: (10:50)
The Cooper Hewitts?
Charles David: (10:50)
Yeah. The [inaudible] at Ebony didn’t. They were permanent.
Speaker 3: (11:02)
[Inaudible] either go through that pile.
Unidentified Speaker: (11:09)
Did he use that?
Speaker 3: (11:12)
I think these are from Birth of a Nation, but I’m not positive.
William Grisham: (11:15)
Oh I’m sure they are. They’re supposed to have taken some of it in Evanston. I don’t know that that’s—
Speaker 2: (11:20)
Oh, here we go.
William Grisham: (11:20)
Here we go. This is Selig.
Charles David: (11:23)
That’s Selig, yeah.
William Grisham: (11:24)
That is Selig.
Charles David: (11:26)
Yeah.
Speaker 3: (11:27)
I pulled these out. Here's an old camera. These are cameras that grandma [inaudible].
Charles David: (11:30)
[Inaudible] in Africa.
William Grisham: (11:35)
Oh, I read about that. When that was a real—
Charles David: (11:37)
Yeah, that was a real dud.
William Grisham: (11:39)
Yeah. [Inaudible]. Yeah.
Unidentified Speaker: (11:44)
[Inaudible]
Charles David: (11:49)
I can add some pictures of the [inaudible].
Speaker 3: (11:51)
I don’t remember you identifying any of the [inaudible].
Charles David: (11:55)
Here's a camera with the bipack, remember?
William Grisham: (12:00)
Now this is Luperti isn’t it?
Charles David: (12:02)
No.
William Grisham: (12:03)
Who is that?
Charles David: (12:03)
No, that’s Alvin Whitecock. He was a west coast [inaudible].
William Grisham: (12:05)
West coast. Luperti does look something [inaudible].
Charles David: (12:12)
And here’s another one of those.
Speaker 3: (12:14)
These are all Ebony.
Charles David: (12:16)
This is where we had the combination. It was the funniest thing you ever saw.
William Grisham: (12:26)
Oh, this is fantastic. [Inaudible]
Charles David: (12:29)
Here’s the crew of Ebony. Then this is the guy I told you about. No legless wonder.
William Grisham: (12:38)
Oh, was he? He’s the writer?
Charles David: (12:41)
Yeah. He was one of the [inaudible]. We used to build these sets as we went along.
William Grisham: (12:50)
This is at Ebony.
Charles David: (12:52)
This is, this guy, Tischner, was the head of the trust company. And this was a relative of his, and they sent him out and put him on the payroll. At that time they closed it. So he was mad as hell at his company. This is an outdoor studio we built in [inaudible].
William Grisham: (13:14)
This is where Ebony got—See that?
Charles David: (13:17)
Here's the cast of Ebony.
William Grisham: (13:22)
That's great.
Charles David: (13:26)
Oh, this is the American cinematograph camera of my father-in-law. But that was another camera company. Sperry and Captain Banning I think his name was.
William Grisham: (13:41)
Oh wait a minute. This is your—oh, this is still Ebony though?
Charles David: (13:43)
No. Yeah. That's still Ebony. I made this picture for him, I guess.
William Grisham: (13:48)
Now where was this? At the studio over on California?
Charles David: (13:52)
Yeah, California. And see me at a bank of studio lights and a bank of a Cooper-Hewitts here. Then you'll see some arc lights somewhere. We had about four arcs. We could offset the light with those things. And we got some beautiful effects.
William Grisham: (14:12)
This looks great here. Remember any of them? What about the mummy? That one? That one—
Charles David: (14:20)
Mercy, the Mummy Mumbled?
William Grisham: (14:21)
Yeah. Mercy, the Mummy Mumbled. Oh, if we could only get a frame by frame on this [inaudible] before it goes.
Charles David: (14:30)
We built all those sets ourselves, you know?
William Grisham: (14:34)
Now, Mercy, The Mummy Mumbled was the—where they had the Orientals and the Blacks together, right.
Charles David: (14:40)
No, they were all Black.
William Grisham: (14:42)
They were all Blacks but they were playing Orientals here?
Speaker 3: (14:46)
Oh, this is a good one too. A Black Sherlock Holmes.
Charles David: (14:49)
Yeah. That's a good one.
William Grisham: (14:51)
Do you have it on film?
Speaker 3: (14:51)
Yeah, we should. See these are wanted to ask you how to—
William Grisham: (14:56)
Now, if you tell me what you want me to do, and I will be glad to do it. In other words, you want me to contact [inaudible] I will. Otherwise I won't.
Speaker 3: (15:05)
We’ve got to get these on a safe film.
Unidentified Speaker: (15:09)
There should be copies of [inaudible].
[Crosstalk] William Grisham: (15:12)
[Inaudible]
Charles David: (15:14)
Look at the bunch of pictures they’ve gathered. You know we moved out of the home in [inaudible].
William Grisham: (15:20)
Yes.
Charles David: (15:21)
And I didn't even [inaudible]. Ed was over and all this junk [inaudible].
Speaker 3: (15:25)
Here’s one. Here’s The Mummy—Mercy, The Mummy Mumbled.
Charles David: (15:28)
He had tons of stuff.
William Grisham: (15:29)
This looks like they’re probably in good shape.
Speaker 3: (15:31)
It’s in pretty good shape.
William Grisham: (15:32)
It is in pretty good shape. You’ve stored them well. This basement is great.
[Crosstalk] Unidentified Speaker: (15:35)
[Inaudible]
[Crosstalk] Speaker 3: (15:35)
[Inaudible]
[Crosstalk] William Grisham: (15:35)
[Inaudible] A basement is great for this though.
Speaker 3: (15:39)
And I think this is one.
Charles David: (15:41)
This one of them or is this something else?
Speaker 3: (15:43)
This is another one, Dad. This is your Reckless Rover, the Chinese Laundry.
Speaker 4: (15:47)
[Inaudible]
Charles David: (15:50)
We asked the chinks if we could use their [inaudible] and they said no.
Speaker 3: (15:59)
Dad also here and other things. He has the last bit of motion picture film [inaudible]. You know, we went through the city [inaudible]. He’s got the first pictures of [inaudible].
Charles David: (16:12)
[Inaudible] Universal. [Inaudible] last picture he ever, anybody ever made of him.
William Grisham: (16:16)
What did he have, [inaudible]?
Speaker 3: (16:19)
Yes.
William Grisham: (16:29)
This thing is really—now who did your motion? Would that be—?
Charles David: (16:37)
No, I don’t. [Inaudible] some commercial filmers at the Motion Picture Company.
William Grisham: (16:58)
Well, here's the Valentino.
Charles David: (17:01)
Yeah, that as it. That’s the thing we shot him. That's the last picture he ever took. This is one of my favorites. Got a guy jumping out of a ninth story window. And he lived. I had some other nice shots that I was very proud of. Didn’t I have one in here with—oh, this one. This one is beginning to fall apart. And they stole that on me after I made that.
William Grisham: (17:41)
I know they do that. This was—
Charles David: (17:42)
This was the head thing on The Crowd Roars. And I made this out of Sportsman's park. Didn’t know how to race. A car landed right by me. And this one came right down to my feet.
William Grisham: (17:57)
Did you—you did the one that I have in Indianapolis, the first one in 1911.
Charles David: (18:03)
Yeah. I was on that.
William Grisham: (18:06)
You know who’s distributing that? That’s the Black [inaudible] Film that’s distributing that.
Charles David: (18:12)
They still got it?
William Grisham: (18:13)
They still have it, yeah.
Charles David: (18:16)
We got some close calls. I was loading the magazine down along the rail, you know, outside the—
William Grisham: (18:26)
Rod La Rocque was another one. Did you know him there?
Charles David: (18:29)
Oh yeah. That’s the—oh, that's the death notice. I got a lot of [inaudible] around here. It would take time to go through it.
William Grisham: (18:39)
Oh, yes it would. Let's not do that though. You’ve got some beautiful shots. Are they labeled? Yeah, they are. Adventures of—see here's Kathleen now.
Charles David: (18:48)
Oh yeah.
William Grisham: (18:49)
Now, were the early adventures done here of Kathleen?
Charles David: (18:52)
Yeah. Nearly all of them.
William Grisham: (18:54)
Then they were done also out in the west.
Charles David: (18:57)
They went all over the country.
William Grisham: (18:58)
[Inaudible] She was a good actress.
Charles David: (19:02)
[Inaudible] even know the folks in the business. But he—we bought all the junk out of Selig and tons of it. And then—
William Grisham: (19:11)
You did?
Charles David: (19:13)
[inaudible] and I. I bought—
William Grisham: (19:14)
What happened to the Selig studios? Can you tell me [inaudible]?
Charles David: (19:16)
Oh, they went west.
William Grisham: (19:18)
No, I’m talking about the buildings here.
Charles David: (19:20)
Oh, they tore it down.
William Grisham: (19:20)
They just tore it down.
Charles David: (19:22)
And I bought tons of stuff from them.
William Grisham: (19:27)
Like what?
Charles David: (19:28)
I bought [inaudible].
William Grisham: (19:31)
Yeah.
Charles David: (19:32)
I got two-thousand flats. I told you I bought, individually, about ten printers. And all the props we could handle. I hired a hay rack from [inaudible] and we took it over to Ebony, you know, over to, you know, I have the photo plays. And I had that back yard loaded. And I walked out [inaudible].
Speaker 5: (20:03)
Here's the individual purchases you made from Selig.
Speaker 6: (20:07)
Can you imagine that showed up.
William Grisham: (20:09)
How amazing.
Speaker 5: (20:10)
See there’s another two-hundred [inaudible].
William Grisham: (20:14)
[Inaudible]
Speaker 4: (20:15)
We tried to go through one time and figure out what stills go with what pictures.
William Grisham: (20:21)
Yeah. I don't want to get them out of order now. That’s the thing. I got this out of
[Crosstalk] Speaker 5: (20:23)
Yeah. [Inaudible]
Speaker 5: (20:28)
Here’s a check to sue him for three thousand [inaudible].
William Grisham: (20:33)
And that was from?
Speaker 5: (20:36)
Ed bought it from him. It’s from Selig. Well, I don't know. It’s a personal dealing.
William Grisham: (20:40)
Yeah.
Speaker 5: (20:42)
It happened to be—
William Grisham: (20:43)
Amazing.
Speaker 5: (20:45)
I don't know how we have to say this.
William Grisham: (20:46)
So they were really sold—you would say they really were sold in about 1920, right, the studios here?
Speaker 5: (20:53)
That's the date on these, yeah.
Unidentified Speaker: (20:54)
That’s the date?
William Grisham: (20:55)
That would have been it then, yeah.
Charles David: (20:56)
That's when I started picking up—
William Grisham: (20:58)
Yeah. Oh, look at this. This is amazing. I don’t know what that is. They Is this Bronco Billy? Oh, this is Tom Mix! This is a Mix. They did these in Arizona, didn’t they? The Selig ranch in Arizona.
Charles David: (21:20)
Yeah, I think they did.
William Grisham: (21:21)
Right. They were also supposed to have been in New Orleans. Is that true?
Charles David: (21:25)
Where?
William Grisham: (12:26)
New Orleans?
Charles David: (12:27)
Well, they might've made one.
William Grisham: (21:28)
One but not—they were really mainly in Arizona, Los Angeles and the Chicago. It is an early—her name is—
Charles David: (21:38)
This was considered big in those days, a production set like that. That’s Essanay.
William Grisham: (21:47)
You know, I had shots. Beverly gave me something she wanted back. This is marvelous. Now who are these?
Charles David: (21:57)
There's some—I think Barrymore is in one of them.
William Grisham:
Well, this wasn't Essanay.
Charles David: (22:06)
Oh, maybe not.
William Grisham: (22:07)
No, this was not Essanay.
Charles David: (22:08)
Might have been MGM.
William Grisham: (22:09)
They had an outdoor sequence [inaudible].
Charles David: (22:13)
I remember now. I thought this was that side. They didn't make many spectaculars, you know.
William Grisham: (22:19)
No, but the one you're talking about has a configuration like that. I remember. You’re absolutely right.
[Crosstalk] Charles David: (22:23)
[Inaudible] It’s odd the way they built up.
William Grisham: (22:27)
Yeah.
Charles David: (22:28)
Spoor set [inaudible].
William Grisham: (22:30)
Spoor didn’t like to spend money.
Charles David: (22:32)
Oh, he hated it.
William Grisham: (22:33)
He hated to spend money.
Unidentified Speaker: (22:42)
So that was [inaudible].
Charles David: (22:43)
That’s Stan.
Charles David: (22:45)
That’s Stan. He wasn't in the army.
William Grisham: (22:47)
That’s really— it would be a nice shot though.
[Crosstalk] Speaker 3: (22:53)
That’s—yeah.
Charles David: (22:55)
We could probably get good pictures out of those.
William Grisham: (22:57)
Bob, if you don't mind. I'll have to come [inaudible].
Speaker 3: (23:14)
This is [inaudible].
William Grisham: (23:19)
Because they didn’t [inaudible].
Speaker 3: (23:24)
[Inaudible]
Speaker 4: (23:29)
Oh, yes.
William Grisham: (23:30)
’11? The 1911 one?
Speaker 3: (23:52)
I don’t know if [inaudible]
Speaker 4: (23:33)
All the years. All the years.
Speaker 3: (23:34)
There’s a whole pile of those.
William Grisham: (23:35)
Do you have—
William Grisham: (23:37)
See, I’m doing a film now that uses that material. Isn’t that interesting?
Charles David: (23:40)
What?
William Grisham: (23:41)
The 1911 ending.
Speaker 4: (23:44)
Well.
William Grisham: (23:47)
I have stills of the room.
Speaker 4: (23:49)
Oh, here’s one of the—
Speaker 4: (23:55)
Well, they're here. It's just a matter of timing.
William Grisham: (23:59)
What is this? I just was curious.
Speaker 4: (24:00)
I don’t know. Let’s look at it. [Inaudible]
William Grisham: (24:07)
They’re making a film in Cary, Illinois obviously.
Speaker 4: (24:09)
Yeah. See [inaudible].
William Grisham: (24:11)
It’s beautiful. That looks almost—Eisenstein. The kind of thing he would do.
Speaker 4: (24:19)
There’s just so many.
William Grisham: (24:20)
Well let’s— have them in some sort of an order, and I don't want to miss that up.
Speaker 4: (24:25)
Not really because here are some. We’ll have to—
William Grisham: (24:36)
[Inaudible] that’s twenty [inaudible] later.
Speaker 4: (24:40)
Oh, I saw 1911 on here.
Speaker 3: (24:42)
[Inaudible]
Speaker 4: (24:45)
Yes. Oh yes. There's lots of them. But they get messed up as you look, I mean.
Charles David: (24:58)
I’m also curious.
Speaker 3: (25:00)
Yeah. We—
William Grisham: (25:04)
[Inaudible] damages.
Charles David: (25:06)
That’s how—in the olden days where they, you know, they had to be careful. [Inaudible] had to be careful.
Unidentified Speaker: (25:13)
Bell and Howell gave that to you to try out.
Charles David: (25:16)
Yeah, he gave it to me to try it out.
William Grisham: (25:17)
Bell was mainly a projectionist. Howell was the inventor, correct?
Charles David: (25:21)
Howell was the inventor.
William Grisham: (25:22)
Right. And he had been hired, they had both been hired by Spoor.
Charles David: (25:25)
Yeah.
William Grisham: (25:26)
Earlier.
Charles David: (25:27)
Charlie Ziebarth was one of his best mechanics.
William Grisham: (25:33)
Ziebarth worked—yeah.
Charles David: (25:34)
Burt Howell. Let me see. What was Howell’s first name?
William Grisham: (25:38)
Burt Howell.
Charles David: (25:39)
Klein Howell, I think his name was.
William Grisham: (25:41)
Okay.
Charles David: (25:42)
He built a camera for Independence. And when we take two grinds of a two-foot, and he made one grind of two shots, two frames in it. And I got that when I bought the Lumley Film Company stuff. It was the damnedest thing ever saw. And he built it trying to beat the Patents company.
William Grisham: (26:09)
Well, why don't we close down today? It'd be—
Charles David: (26:11)
Yeah, I think we’d better.
William Grisham: (26:13)
Yeah, let’s [inaudible].
Language Of Materials
English
Reel/Tape Number
1/1
Has Been Digitized?
Yes
Format/Extent
Cassette Tape ➜ C60
Genre
Form
Subject
Participants And Performers
David, Charles (is interviewee)
Grisham, William Franklin (is interviewer)
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